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"Clean" Governor of Jakarta Jailed 2 Years for Blaspheming by Ebenezer Debberworth - Sat, 13 May 2017 15:13:12 EST ID:+2xmUbWo No.158015 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1494702792456.jpg -(55892B / 54.58KB, 627x663) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 55892
>A court in Indonesia has sentenced the capital's Christian governor to two years in prison for blasphemy against Islam, in a decision that has cheered Muslim conservatives and crushed the hopes of advocates of a more pluralistic and tolerant path for their nation.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/09/527570325/jakartas-christian-governor-sentenced-to-2-years-for-blasphemy
>>
Hamilton Chullyhon - Sat, 13 May 2017 16:07:35 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158016 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Yeah, and Uganda is jailing and trying to execute people for being gay. Do you have any point but spamming your bullshit Islamophobia?
>>
Martin Fepperfetch - Sat, 13 May 2017 16:29:35 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158017 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158016
>don't talk about bad things if muslims or brown people do them, its hate speech.
>>
Nicholas Hurrykan - Sat, 13 May 2017 16:34:56 EST ID:V73bHX6y No.158018 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158017
He just pointed out Ugandans are jailing gays. Last I checked Ugandans are brown.
>>
Hamilton Chullyhon - Sat, 13 May 2017 16:52:37 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158019 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158017
No, just pointing out that this is spam, and that the problem isn't Islam, its Fundamentalism, and that can be found in any religion.
>>
Martin Fepperfetch - Sat, 13 May 2017 17:21:17 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158020 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1494710477756.jpg -(48408B / 47.27KB, 506x395) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>158019
Which majority muslim countries accept gays tho? Oh yea its zero

inb4 bible doesnt like gays either.
True but kill all the gays is not in the 10 commandments like its written in shariah law.
>>
Lillian Goodshaw - Sat, 13 May 2017 17:39:04 EST ID:fXST/jPW No.158022 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158020

Yeah because Erdogan is the authority on Islam that fucking pig needs to die fucking cunt gassing Kurds and propping up ISIS.
>>
Lillian Goodshaw - Sat, 13 May 2017 17:41:23 EST ID:fXST/jPW No.158023 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158020

>True but kill all the gays is not in the 10 commandments like its written in shariah law.

No it isn't do you even know what a mukhannathun is Iran has the highest population of transsexuals aside from Thailand
>>
Walter Babberfoot - Sat, 13 May 2017 17:51:59 EST ID:xvt821T3 No.158024 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158023
There's a pretty fucked up reason for that.

"Any type of sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage is forbidden. Transsexuality in Iran is legal if accompanied by a sex change operation, with Iran carrying out more sex-change operations than any other country in the world after Thailand. These surgeries are typically partially funded by the state – there have been claims that some homosexual men may have been pressured to undergo them both by government and society."

From LGBT rights in Iran wiki page.
>>
Hamilton Chullyhon - Sat, 13 May 2017 17:55:36 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158025 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158020
>shariah law

You know that's an interpretation, and not some code written out in the Quran, right?

And again, its Fundamentalism, not Islam itself. Secular Islamic countries (before most got overthrown) did not have such harsh laws. Laws that Domininists in America very much wish to emulate.
>>
Martin Fepperfetch - Sat, 13 May 2017 18:09:18 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158027 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158022
Turkey until recently was the country people used to "prove" muslims are even capable of democracy lol.
Funny thing is they were a semi-democracy when they had completely cut out islam from politics. Thats over tho


>>158023
I see Walter already explained it.


>>158025
You should read it some time and you will find out its very politic and directly organizes Muslims life. It even has law on which percentages inheritances are to be split by. Also there are no contradictions in the Quran because muhammed set the rule that in case of a contradiction, whatever he dictated last is law (he wrote the last parts of it when I was at war with infidels by the way).
>>
Hamilton Chullyhon - Sat, 13 May 2017 18:16:54 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158028 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158027
>You should read it some time and you will find out its very politic and directly organizes Muslims life.


Yeah, and so does the Bible, or did you forget its a sin to wear clothing with mixed fibers?
>>
Martin Fepperfetch - Sat, 13 May 2017 18:26:32 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158029 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158028
Difference lies in that the bible was written by hundreds of people over a long time. Plenty of contradictions you can interpret any way. That opened it up for reform.
Quran was dictated by one slave owning illiterate to his writers.
>>
Alice Crendlefuck - Sat, 13 May 2017 18:49:38 EST ID:O+Tn+tk4 No.158030 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>yet another thread about Islam

nb
>>
Hamilton Chullyhon - Sat, 13 May 2017 19:59:46 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158031 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158029
Sweet moving the goalposts bro.
>>
Charles Trotwell - Sat, 13 May 2017 22:09:20 EST ID:ZWy+evlr No.158035 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'm converting to Islam because of this thread.
>>
Hamilton Snodville - Sat, 13 May 2017 22:53:42 EST ID:JWp/ZIyX No.158036 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158029
the apostles were probably mostly illiterate too. the lower classes in the roman empire were usually illiterate. in all likelyhood jesus was an illiterate desert hippie. being a scribe was a decent living back then. and the bible is pretty clear on a lot of it's less savory shit as well. no reason why we can't condemn the garbage in both books. and people have been arguing over the true meaning of different parts of the quran for centuries.
>>
James Clayfield - Sun, 14 May 2017 11:22:55 EST ID:TgT9jP6P No.158043 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158024

I'm not an Iran apologist merely pointing out a glaring flaw in your logic. Yes Iran does pressure homosexuals to undergo trans surgery but what does this say about your argument that Islam calls for the slaying of all homosexuals? Calls it bogus is what it does. Compared to a country that is still in the process of shitting its pants over transgender bathrooms Iran is lightyears ahead.

Just here fucking with your head loser.

Convert to Islam.

>>158025

Take the Sufi interpretation(s) of the Quran, a group that has had to endure way more bullshit bombings from Wahhabists than any Western crybaby nation. You never see anyone talk about Sufism when discussing Islam, it's practically unheard of, all you hear is

"REEEEEEEEEEEEE MUH RADICAL ISLAM TAKIN OVER MY WHITE WOMENS EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARGH MUH FREEDOMS SHARIAH LAWWWWWW"
>>
James Clayfield - Sun, 14 May 2017 11:30:01 EST ID:TgT9jP6P No.158044 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158029

Here's a Christian yes Christian site that goes through the trouble of disproving your claim of Muhammad's illiteracy;

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-muhammad-not-illiterate.htm

It's a poorly cited article that isn't to be taken seriously but I just want to push you down the rabbit hole here.

Most Islamic scholars maintain that Muhammad could not read or write until the revelation of the Quran which gave him the ability to among other things.

He did not have it dictated. He wrote it down. Word by word, page by page and, according to Islam, all while being previously illiterate thanks be to God.
>>
James Clayfield - Sun, 14 May 2017 11:35:41 EST ID:TgT9jP6P No.158045 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158027

>Turkey until recently was the country people used to "prove" muslims are even capable of democracy lol.

That is not the reason for Turkey's favor by the West, the reason is longstanding political ties to the nation and the lasting influence of the Ottoman empire, yes lasting influence. There are plenty of democratic Muslim nations but being majority Muslim they don't conform to your style of thinking which is how democracy can work sometimes bub.


>Funny thing is they were a semi-democracy when they had completely cut out islam from politics. Thats over tho

That again has nothing to do with democracy, here democracy works by favoring a resurgence of Islamic thought in a previously secular society. If the people all start to turn religious, ya get religion.
>>
James Clayfield - Sun, 14 May 2017 11:38:02 EST ID:TgT9jP6P No.158046 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158045

Just want to make clear I don't support democratic thought, merely pointing out flaws in argument. Democracy is degenerate mob rule. Whatever the People decide collectively ultimately gets to be law, without answering to God or nature. It's a mental disorder.
>>
James Clayfield - Sun, 14 May 2017 11:57:38 EST ID:TgT9jP6P No.158047 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158046

Freedom doesn't even come from democracy, it comes from transcendence. People are easily led by what they know by those who know more than them, is that freedom?
>>
Eliza Clirryshit - Sun, 14 May 2017 14:09:05 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158051 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158036
>implying if you think islam is shit you automatically have to love the bible
>>
Eliza Clirryshit - Sun, 14 May 2017 14:12:06 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158052 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158045
>he thinks turkey is a democracy
>he thinks there are plenty of democratic Muslim nations
wew
>>
Eliza Clirryshit - Sun, 14 May 2017 14:13:16 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158053 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158046
agreed
>>
John Fubbershaw - Sun, 14 May 2017 14:24:18 EST ID:PtalCAUc No.158054 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158053 ha tricked you faggot now you will be on a watch list for hating freedom I don't actually believe that shit I'm a Sufi mystic neenerneener
>>
Cornelius Pittcocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:27:10 EST ID:HoW/oQNE No.158056 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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Denmark doing it too.
Inshallah Islam will rule the world!
>>
Cornelius Pittcocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:32:02 EST ID:HoW/oQNE No.158057 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1494790322502.jpg -(33159B / 32.38KB, 700x263) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Migrate and create lions for Allah!
>>
Cornelius Pittcocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:34:14 EST ID:HoW/oQNE No.158058 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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https://boards.420chan.org/n/src/1490279608467.jpg
https://boards.420chan.org/n/src/1490279608467.jpg
>>
Cornelius Pittcocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:39:10 EST ID:HoW/oQNE No.158059 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158019
FUCK ISLAM!

Shove it up your ass pig.
>>
Clara Pickham - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:39:29 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158060 Ignore Report Quick Reply
ahh, classic Cripplechan spam tactics.
>>
Clara Pickham - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:42:37 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158061 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158059
TRIGGERED
AS
FUCK
>>
Cornelius Pittcocke - Sun, 14 May 2017 15:47:02 EST ID:HoW/oQNE No.158062 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158043
>your argument that Islam calls for the slaying of all homosexuals
It blatantly calls for the slaying of anyone not muslim.

The rich people are allowed to stay Christian but have to accept extortion called jizya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXGE2eBUdlQ
>>
John Fubbershaw - Sun, 14 May 2017 16:33:23 EST ID:PtalCAUc No.158065 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158062 those who can't afford the jizya, an ottoman turk invention, are exempt from it along with women, children, handicapped, mentally ill, monks, those in military service and foreign merchants. It's just a basic income tax to enforce one of the 5 pillars of Islam, zakhat, which is mandatory charity to the aforementioned poor.
>>
John Fubbershaw - Sun, 14 May 2017 16:38:58 EST ID:PtalCAUc No.158066 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158062 and no, Islam only calls Muslims to slay the aggressor, those who oppress Muslims with violence, it is a calling by Allah to defend God's community but where personal attacks are concerned it is advised to remain peaceful so long as it is only you being harmed and not innocents like those bombed by western nations in Baghdad, for example.
>>
John Fubbershaw - Sun, 14 May 2017 17:03:35 EST ID:PtalCAUc No.158067 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158062 also taqiyya, a defensive action, is a doctrine only believed in by some Shia branches and is not Sunni but it does provide a convenient excuse for the unwilling to learn to dam their ears and pretend Islam must be one giant lie convicted to hide amorphous evil intent, all the while cherrypicking out of context lines from the Qur'an to explicate supposed evil intent. This has the result of stifling any rational discussion of Islam by those who fear it SO. Taqqiya is like the 5th amendment, it tells Muslims they are safe from sinning if they lie to not self incriminate. It is that simple and though the infamous Bedouin merchants interpretation plays fast and loose with the definition it is a religious liberty to be respected.
>>
Eliza Clirryshit - Sun, 14 May 2017 17:22:20 EST ID:sgRwI/TL No.158068 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158054
The right to vote should be acquired via IQ tests.

inb4 thats racist
>>
Clara Pickham - Sun, 14 May 2017 17:36:10 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158069 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158068
Odd for someone to advocate their own disenfranchisement.
>>
Esther Buzzhall - Mon, 15 May 2017 04:57:22 EST ID:EpV6Hx/N No.158074 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158069
I I'm too dumb to pass it I shouldn't vote tbh
>>
Albert Cablingbadge - Mon, 15 May 2017 06:31:08 EST ID:cm4LvD/b No.158078 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158074
>implying thats how voter """"""""""IQ tests"""""""""" work.
>>
Martha Fanbanks - Mon, 15 May 2017 11:42:05 EST ID:McxUCEp7 No.158087 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158068 what would your minimum threshold be? 100? 120? 140 maybe?
>>
Priscilla Hablingfoot - Mon, 15 May 2017 17:17:15 EST ID:NvjNMZcV No.158091 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158087
Determine the country-wide mean and put the threshold there to cut out the lower 50% IQ wise.
>>
Henry Herrysad - Mon, 15 May 2017 17:33:17 EST ID:XZKcEVGb No.158092 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158091

Mean IQ of America is 98 why don't you try Google next time.

98 is pretty low. Average. Do we really want average people voting? Why not set it at 120 that seems reasonable. 140 would mean too few voters but 120 is just right.
>>
Priscilla Hablingfoot - Mon, 15 May 2017 17:46:44 EST ID:NvjNMZcV No.158093 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158092
>every person on the internet is murican
>>
David Brookson - Mon, 15 May 2017 17:58:22 EST ID:iA1Y5JUt No.158094 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158067
Was this a defensive action?
>>
Henry Herrysad - Mon, 15 May 2017 18:04:32 EST ID:XZKcEVGb No.158095 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158094

I don't follow, are you implying those wars were entirely offensive thus Islam is bad or that the Caliphs who waged them were violating Islamic principals in which case may I refer you to the legendary incident of Saladin being threatened by the Hashashin for invading Europe.
>>
Henry Herrysad - Mon, 15 May 2017 18:05:59 EST ID:XZKcEVGb No.158096 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158093

That was stupid of me.
>>
Walter Bizzlecocke - Mon, 15 May 2017 20:35:07 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158097 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158094
Given all the atrocities commuted by the Crusaders...


Not at it matters, Thats how empires did things back then, Islamic, or otherwise (or that Spain was FAR nicer under Islam then Christianity)
>>
Phyllis Hiddlewater - Tue, 16 May 2017 03:25:23 EST ID:NvjNMZcV No.158118 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158097
But anon. The crusades started hundreds of years after the muslims started conquering all that.

>Thats how empires did things back then
Yes but in case of crusades it needs to be remembered because it was bad whiteys doing it! When the muslims did it its "just how things were back then, bruh". They probably only did it because they knew europeans were gonna conquer Jerusalem 200years after !!
>>
Walter Bizzlecocke - Tue, 16 May 2017 03:27:55 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158119 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158118
Sweet Cripplechan buzzwords bro.
>>
Nell Mabblekere - Tue, 16 May 2017 04:59:54 EST ID:R1yHma3R No.158122 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158097
go ahead and move to the middle east then. If they are so peaceful. I'm sure you'll be fine.
>>
Walter Bizzlecocke - Tue, 16 May 2017 09:45:17 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158131 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158122
If I wanted to deal with fundamentalism, I'll just move to the US. it's closer, and not as warm.
>>
Angus Blythecocke - Tue, 16 May 2017 09:53:41 EST ID:okcxXpDl No.158136 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Dammit, Indonesia was really the only major Muslim country that wasn't all theocratic and shit.
>>
Phoebe Lightdale - Wed, 17 May 2017 09:52:46 EST ID:+2xmUbWo No.158171 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158136

Op here. That's the reason I made the thread. But it has devolved into a discussion on Iranian transsexuals and Ottoman taxation schemes.
>>
Wesley Duckdock - Wed, 17 May 2017 12:18:30 EST ID:okcxXpDl No.158176 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158171
>a discussion on Iranian transsexuals and Ottoman taxation schemes.
welcome to the internet
http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/the-fall-of-ahok-and-indonesias-future/
>>
Charles Gabblenire - Wed, 17 May 2017 15:50:43 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158181 Ignore Report Quick Reply
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/15/sovereign-citizens-rightwing-terrorism-hate-us-government?

But please, keep telling me how Islam is the real danger to America.
>>
Cornelius Blubberpeg - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:06:57 EST ID:NSHJykeG No.158185 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158181
make ur own thread fag.
>>
Nathaniel Shakefoot - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:39:48 EST ID:rLmEVEUE No.158188 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158181


The world's a wild place son
>>
Wesley Duckdock - Wed, 17 May 2017 18:45:10 EST ID:okcxXpDl No.158189 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158181
It's not specifically Islam. This does mean though that the Islamic world lacks a role model. TBH a lot would suggest that general political infighting was the reason and sectarianism the method when it comes to removing Ahok. Christian fundamentalism is regressive even in modern Europe and North America; the worry is that they will repeat our mistakes.
>>
Nathaniel Shakefoot - Wed, 17 May 2017 19:29:05 EST ID:rLmEVEUE No.158190 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158189

>the method

He's right you know

But that does comprise a larger agenda of political Islam.

As a Sufi this is troubling because political Islam is usually Wahhabism which is an enemy of Sufism;

https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/08/15/sufi-muslims-feel-heat-indonesias-rising-intolerance

Sufi principles are bad for any sort of political powergrabbing and the power hungry thugs who often comprise Wahhabist movements go after Sufi places of worship with suicide bombings and aggressive shootings for a reason.

http://ircpl.org/projects/cdtr/sufi-islam-in-21st-century-politics/

There are many people who say "Islam is Islam" but this is more often a statement by its enemies than its friends.
>>
Sidney Biffingman - Thu, 18 May 2017 18:36:42 EST ID:kwQHbRfQ No.158213 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158190
The marginalization of the Sufis is really both a symptom and a cause of Islams current degeneracy. Mongols, Europeans and Muslims themselves, all contributed to the collapse of the Islamic golden age. Since then it's been mostly Ottoman or backwater. After the camel-herders of Arabia became fantastically wealthy Islam has slowly become synonymous with theocratic fundamentalism. Not that most religions haven't gone through several similar phases... Don't worry - the Americans will bomb the problem right!
>>
Doris Facklestack - Thu, 18 May 2017 20:00:44 EST ID:I5RWa/so No.158215 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158213

It's them fucking Mongols man all Genghis Khan's fault I knew this led back to him.
>>
Hugh Blackshaw - Fri, 19 May 2017 08:39:02 EST ID:QF4NkwF8 No.158224 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158097
>>
Hugh Blackshaw - Fri, 19 May 2017 08:42:20 EST ID:QF4NkwF8 No.158225 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158213
Don't fuck with the mongols lol. Arrogant arabs always get rekt in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJqk8-GWBkU
>>
Sophie Dartson - Fri, 19 May 2017 09:32:33 EST ID:ap5HJjml No.158229 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158224

Wow the Crusaders were a bunch of pussies.
>>
Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:51:19 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158234 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158136
>Dammit, Indonesia was really the only major Muslim country that wasn't all theocratic and shit.
>In Indonesia, where religion plays a dominant role in society, and where almost 90 percent of the population are Muslim, homosexuality is not punishable by national law, but condemnation of homosexuality has been voiced by many religious leaders, not only Islamic.[1] The national criminal code does not prohibit cross-dressing or adult, non-commercial and consensual homosexual conduct between consenting adults, although it does contain a higher age of consent for same-sex sexual conduct, and there are some reports that police have sometimes harassed gay or transgender people using vaguely worded public indecency laws. At the local level, gay or transgender Muslims can be fined or imprisoned under provincial laws against homosexuality and cross-dressing. Indonesia's northwesternmost province of Aceh for example, has a sharia-based anti-homosexuality law that punishes anyone caught having gay sex with 100 lashes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Indonesia
>Discriminatory police raids conducted against homosexual men can lead to an imprisonment of 15 years. In April 2017, in Aceh, a homosexual couple had consensual coitus in the privacy of their own. They face public flogging based on the Sharia (Islamic laws). This is against international anti-torture law
>A national bill to criminalize homosexuality, along with cohabitation, adultery and the practice of witchcraft, failed to be enacted in 2003 and no subsequent bill has been reintroduced.[24] However, local governments have been given the option of passing local laws based on traditional Islamic morality.

>>158171
Not Ottoman. Muslim. All all rich kaffir must pay it. Rest can convert or die.
>>
Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 12:57:29 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158235 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158234

>Not Ottoman. Muslim. All all rich kaffir must pay it. Rest can convert or die.

Could you fucking stop repeating this absolute bullshit you redpilled nazi faggot

>>158065 I already explained jizya here, that's what it is. It's a tax that all people under a Muslim government enforcing it who are fit enough to pay have to pay INCLUDING MUSLIMS. It's no different than an income tax. It's also not backed by the Qur'an, it was an Ottoman invention to enforce one of the 5 pillars of Islam; Zakhat, which is mandatory charity. Where are your sources for your claims? Breitbart? stormfront?
>>
Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:00:48 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158236 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158235

That mandatory charity applies to Muslims in the same way the other 4 pillars apply to Muslims. It's one of the most basic things you have to do to be Muslim; give charitable donations to the poor and sick. Since being Muslim is A CHOICE ACCORDING TO THE QUR'AN there was never any law in the Qur'an for how Islamic governments should ENFORCE Zakat so the Ottoman empire in their infinite wisdom (lolno) came up with one.
>>
Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:08:46 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158237 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158235
>INCLUDING MUSLIMS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya
>Jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎‎ ǧizya IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: جزيه cizye) is a per capita yearly tax historically levied by Islamic states on certain non-Muslim subjects—dhimmis—permanently residing in Muslim lands under Islamic law.
>Historically, the Jizya tax has been understood in Islam as a fee for protection provided by the Muslim ruler to non-Muslims, for the exemption from military service for non-Muslims, for the permission to practice a non-Muslim faith with some communal autonomy in a Muslim state, and as material proof of the non-Muslims' submission to the Muslim state and its laws.
>Jizya has also been understood by some as a ritual humiliation of the non-Muslims in a Muslim state for not converting to Islam,[32][33] while others argue that if it were meant to be a punishment for the dhimmis' unbelief then monks and the clergy wouldn't have been exempted.[34]
>The jizya tax was historically imposed on Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians in the Arabian peninsula, the Levant, Iraq, North Africa, Caucasus and Spain, and on Hindus on the Indian Subcontinent into the 19th century, but almost vanished during the 20th century.[35] The tax is no longer imposed by nation states in the Islamic world,[36][37] although there are reported cases of organizations such as the Pakistani Taliban and ISIS attempting to revive the practice.[

>>It's also not backed by the Qur'an
>The Quran and hadiths mention jizya without specifying its rate or amount.[16]

Fuck off goatfucker.


Ann Lambton states that the jizya was to be paid "in humiliating conditions".[58] Ennaji and other scholars state that some jurists required the jizya to be paid by each in person, by presenting himself, arriving on foot not horseback, by hand, in order to confirm that he lowers himself to being a subjected one, and willingly pays.[151][152][153] According to Mark R. Cohen, the Quran itself does not prescribe humiliating treatment for the dhimmi when paying Jizya, but some later Muslims interpreted it to contain "an equivocal warrant for debasing the dhimmi (non-Muslim) through a degrading method of remission".[154] In contrast, the 13th century hadith scholar and Shafi'ite jurist Al-Nawawī, comments on those who would impose a humiliation along with the paying of the jizya, stating, "As for this aforementioned practice, I know of no sound support for it in this respect, and it is only mentioned by the scholars of Khurasan. The majority of scholars say that the jizya is to be taken with gentleness, as one would receive a debt. The reliably correct opinion is that this practice is invalid and those who devised it should be refuted. It is not related that the Prophet or any of the rightly-guided caliphs did any such thing when collecting the jizya."[113][155][156] Ibn Qudamah also rejected this practice and noted that the Prophet and the rightly-guided caliphs encouraged that jizya be collected with gentleness and kindness.[113][157][158]

The Maliki scholar Al-Qurtubi states, "their punishment in case of non-payment [of jizya] while they were able [to do so] is permitted, however if their inability to pay it was clear then it isn't lawful to punish them, since if one isn't able to pay the jizya then he is exempted".[159] According to Abu Yusuf, jurist of the fifth Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid, those who didn't pay jizya should be imprisoned and not be let out of custody until payment, however, the collectors of the jizya were instructed to show leniency, and avoid corporal punishment in case of non-payment.[140] If someone had agreed to pay jizya, leaving Muslim territory for enemy land was, in theory, punishable by enslavement if they were ever captured. This punishment did not apply if the person had suffered injustices from Muslims.[160]

Failure to pay the jizya was commonly punished by house arrest and some legal authorities allowed enslavement of dhimmis for non-payment of taxes.[161][162][163] In South Asia, for example, seizure of dhimmi families upon their failure to pay annual jizya was one of the two significant sources of slaves sold in the slave markets of Delhi Sultanate and Mughal era.
>>
Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:12:32 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158239 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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IT'S ISLAM!
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:16:11 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158240 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158237
>>158237


>>It's also not backed by the Qur'an
>The Quran and hadiths mention jizya without specifying its rate or amount.[16]

>Sabet, Amr (2006), The American Journal of Islamic Social Sciences 24:4, Oxford; pp. 99–100.

That source isn't the Qur'an. Remember when your teachers told you not to use wikipedia as a source? There is a reason for that. It is riddled with poor citations. This one in particular says the Qur'an mentions Jizya, but refers to some journal, not the Qur'an. Why not just refer to the Qur'an if it is in the Qur'an?

I will respond to the rest of your post soon.
>>
Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:17:41 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158241 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:19:17 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158242 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158237

>Ann Lambton

Who?

>>She wrote several books on subjects ranging from Persian grammar and vocabulary to Qajar land reform. Ann Lambton played a role in overthrowing the democratically elected government of Mohammed Mossadegh. After the decision to nationalize Iran's oil interests in 1951, she advised the British government to undermine the authority of Mossadegh's regime. She proposed that Oxford University professor R. C. Zaehner should go to Iran and begin covert operations. In 1953, with the help of the CIA, the regime of Mossadegh was overthrown and the Shah was restored to the throne.

Oh, a CIA operative with a vested interest in overthrowing Islamic governments.

Nice source bud.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:24:49 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158243 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158237

>According to Abu Yusuf, jurist of the fifth Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid, those who didn't pay jizya should be imprisoned and not be let out of custody until payment,

A juror of a Caliph who did nothing but divide Islam by killing Musa Ibn Ja'far. Not surprising that he would entertain jurists who supported his political powergrabs.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:26:09 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158244 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158239
>>158241

You are just chock full of shit aren't you?
>>
Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:26:54 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158245 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158240
Lmao achmed, try harder, you can't lie on the internet. Update your medieval calendar, dog.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/jizya.aspx
>Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
>Hadith and Sira
Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers. Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Sahih Bukhari (53:386) - The command for Muslims to spread Islamic rule by force, subjugating others until they either convert to Islam or pay money, is eternal: Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master." This is being recounted during the reign of Umar, Muhammad's companion and the second caliph, who sent conquering armies into non-Muslim Persian and Christian lands (after Muhammad's death).

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Allah-stipulate-Jizya-tax-from-non-Muslims-living-under-Islamic-rulers
>In the Quran [9:29] Allah says to take Jizya tax from non-Muslims.

https://controversialislam.wordpress.com/quran-verse-929/
>Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection [Quran 9:29]

Reminder that Islam means subjugation
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Fucking Nickleshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:32:31 EST ID:eurLHEEM No.158246 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Islam is nothing more than a shtick adopted by bandits after realizing the power of religion (Christian, jewish)
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:45:53 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158247 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158245

So I have a Qur'an here, let's read Surah 9 verse 29.

"And fight against those who - despite having been vouchsafed revelation aforetime - do not truly believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth which God has enjoined upon them, till they agree to pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled in war"

In the footnotes we see referenced Surah 2 verses 190 to 194, why? The Qur'an must be understood as a whole and these verses refer to the principals under which war must be fought. I suggest you read them yourself, as they define war as only acceptable in terms of self defense, so these people who ""despite having been vouchsafed revelation aforetime - do not truly believe either in God or the Last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth which God has enjoined upon them""

Are people who, in violation of God's laws are attacking innocent Muslims.

That's not all the notes say though, so let's go through them;

The term Apostle here does not just refer to Mohammad, it refers to Jesus and Moses as well, their laws as well.

The notes say; "it is inconceivable that they should be subsequently blamed for comparatively minor offenses against their religious law; consequently the stress on "not forbidding that which God and His Apostle have forbidden" must refer to something graver than disbelief in God. In context of an ordinance enjoining war against them, this "something" can only mean one thing, namely, unprovoked aggression (which is forbidden).

So the people who are by war forced to pay this tax are aggressors who are getting their just desserts.

The last part of the notes on this verse basically covers what I have already said; that this is a tax that applies to ALL MUSLIMS ALREADY AS A GIVEN. The distinction is only made because when it applies to aggressors subjugated by war they are not giving money to fulfill Zakah, they are forced to because they tried to harm Muslims without reason.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:49:31 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158248 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158247

>(which is forbidden).

For the verse forbidding it refer to the verses aforementioned 2:190-194 from the Surah The Cow.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:50:37 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158249 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158248

If you want me to type those verses up for you I will, but I warn you that The Cow is the longest Surah in the Qur'an and you will have to do a lot of reading. If knowledge is more important to you than violence, you will understand the necessity.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:58:20 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158251 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158249

Also I'm white my birthname is John not Ahmed. That shouldn't matter but to you I have a feeling it will. A lot of damage has been done to Islam by false prophets like Farrakhan who have done serious damage to the reputations of good Muslims like Malcolm X (who recanted his involvement with Farrakhan after his pilgrimage to Mecca demonstrated the universality of Islam) so I suppose my race is relevant.
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Betsy Bunville - Fri, 19 May 2017 13:59:23 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158252 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158247
Dude, you are wasting WAY too much effort on these people. Quoting the Qur'an? You think these people will ever understand context of the Qur'an?
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John Shittingwill - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:08:10 EST ID:iWO2Roc1 No.158254 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158249
I don't care if Islam technically does not allow war other than self defence. If so was the case wtf was the invasion of Europe shown earlier about?
And why was the major activity of Mohammed, rape, slavery, murder and conquest?

Islamic texts are propaganda like the communist manifesto and Carl Marx writings.
You can pretend it's a utopia and have evil motives or you can be so stupid you think your religion / political ideology will work or be followed to the letter.
___
Our argument was that the Koran mentions the tax on non-muslims.
You stated clearly that the tax was for ALL citizens including Muslims like a regular tax AND that the Koran does not mention it.
You were proven wrong on both counts.

You're a liar and a propagandist. See you in the clash of civilizations, mohammed.

Notice that you didn't mention the other quotations either.


>that this is a tax that applies to ALL MUSLIMS ALREADY AS A GIVEN. The distinction is only made because when it applies to aggressors subjugated by war they are not giving money to fulfill Zakah, they are forced to because they tried to harm Muslims without reason.
No it's not. The charity of muslims is ordered by the religion but not enforced as a standard tax, it's charity, i.e voluntary and not set to a certain amount.

>it applies to aggressors subjugated by war
>because they tried to harm Muslims without reason.
Oh please give me a break, faggot. Same story for every empire, attacker is never the real aggressor right? hahahah

>muh religion of peace
>muh only taking back Europe that was muslim before Christian
>we dindu nuffin
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:11:57 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158255 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158252

I used to fear and hate the Qur'an and thought Allah speaking to me in dreams was ISIS using a microwave weapon on my brain to force me to convert to their death cult. I thought Mohammad was just a bloodthirsty idiot and couldn't understand why billions of people followed him, all the while disrespecting my Christian upbringing by decrying it as nonsense.

Islam and Christianity couldn't be closer, the exception is Islam teaches God is the only divine being and Jesus was not God, he was a prophet whose power came from God.

Pork is also forbidden in the Bible, so it's really weird that you see people shouting HURR PORK EATIN CRUSADER, things like that, there are just so many hypocritical inconsistencies, only the truly secular have any real argument against Islam imo.

The only serious argument between the Christian world and the Islamic world concerns Christ's divinity, everything else is the evident subversion of Christian ideals by the secular world.

I went through an ideological change of life and wasting time on people who I used to think exactly like does not bother me at all.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:28:52 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158256 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158254

>technically

It's not technical, it's the heart of the teaching. I'll type those verses for you if you want.

>invasion

Arab political maneuvering having nothing to do with following Islam and everything to do with using religion as a political prop.

For evidence of good Muslims trying to stop the madness refer to Saladin's visitation by the hashashims of the Alamut. They placed a poisoned dagger on his pillow in his war tent in the middle of his army with a note telling him to back off of Europe because Muslims are not conquerors. It scared him and he listened, but the monks of the Alamut couldn't reach everyone and unfortunately much misery was caused by those invasions.

>And why was the major activity of Mohammed, rape, slavery, murder and conquest?

There are two schools of the Sufi thought on this.

One is that Mohammad was not a rapist, kept slaves only as a punishment inflicted on aggressors, did not murder and only killed in self defense and, reaped the spoils of said wars waged in self defense.

The other is that Islam, in its infinite wisdom of referring to God as the one and only divine being in existence, has prophets, including Jesus, who are capable of sin and mistakes. Mohammad once said that he feared Allah's judgment when he would die, that even he had no idea what Allah would do to him (send him to paradise or hell, both of which are interchangeable in Islam btw, mirroring something like reincarnation but not quite the same). Are those the words of a perfect man? Consider the celebration of Abraham's near-miss of sacrificing his son as a Muslim holiday, Islam takes the imperfections of human beings as an important part of religion and doesn't hold its prophets exempt from this.

>No it's not. The charity of muslims is ordered by the religion but not enforced as a standard tax

No, not until the aforementioned Ottomans decided to start doing exactly that.

You are not Muslim if you don't give Zakah though, it's one of the 5 things you must do to be Muslim. A Muslim who doesn't give alms when they have the means to do so is just not a Muslim and should not be recognized as such, simple as that.

>Oh please give me a break, faggot. Same story for every empire, attacker is never the real aggressor right? hahahah

This is a religion you're referring to, not an empire. And no, it's not the same story for every empire. Many empires throughout history glorified and openly boasted of conquest, take the Mongols or the Huns for example. Rome did the same thing.


I see you are from /pol/ though.

Called it.
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Betsy Bunville - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:35:03 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158257 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158255
Alright, I respect you for that, still think the time can be better used, like growing a garden or something.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:38:18 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158258 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158257

I like to think I'm dissuading this guy from picking up a gun and shooting up a mosque.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 14:39:38 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158259 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158258

Though to be realistic that kind of person is just looking for an excuse to shoot people and will move onto something else if it doesn't fit. Maybe I'd better take a break.
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Clara Blackshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 15:05:29 EST ID:2kk+cRB/ No.158260 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158259
>Though to be realistic that kind of person is just looking for an excuse to shoot people and will move onto something else if it doesn't fit.
Maybe if we convince him that he was the Muslim the whole time he'll shoot himself and save everyone else the trouble.
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William Grimshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 17:50:04 EST ID:kwQHbRfQ No.158269 Ignore Report Quick Reply
For the record there have been way more battles than just the crusades. Did y'all miss the part where most of the Muslim world was run by European empires?
As for religion http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ has the Quran and the book of Mormon too.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 18:03:01 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158271 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158269

I just stumbled upon this by serendipity and thought it might be interesting to some of you. Reminds me of the lost Gospels of the Gnostics, same situation, noteworthy part is bolded.;

The Koran is the sacred book of the Muslims (sometimes
called Mohammedans by non-Muslims, a term considered
offensive by some Muslims). It is the most important
foundation on which Islam rests and it is held in the
highest veneration by all Islamic sects. When being
read it must be kept on a stand elevated above the
floor. No one may read it or touch it without first
making a legal ablution. It is written in the Arabic
language, and its style is considered a model. The
substance of the Koran is held to be uncreated and
eternal. Mohammed was merely the person to whom the
work was revealed. At first the Koran was not written,
but entirely committed to memory. But when a great many
of the best Koran reciters had been killed in battle,
Omar suggested to Abu-Bekr (the successor of Mohammed)
that it should be written down. Abu-Bekr accordingly
commanded Zeid, an amanuensis of the prophet, to commit
it to writing. This was the authorized text until 23
years after the death of the prophet. A number of
variant readings had, however, crept into use. By order
of the calif Osman in the year 30 of the Hejira, Zeid
and three assistants made a careful revision which was
adopted as the standard, and all the other copies were
ordered to be burned.
The Koran consists of 114 suras
or divisions. These are not numbered, but each one has
a separate name. They are not arranged in historical
order. These suras purport to be the addresses
delivered by Mohammed during his career at Mecca and
Medina. As a general rule the shorter suras, which
contain the theology of Islam, belong to the Meccan
period; while the longer ones, relating to social
duties and relationships, to Medina. The Koran is
largely drawn from Jewish and Christian sources, the
former prevailing. Moses and Jesus are reckoned among
the prophets. The biblical narratives are interwoven
with rabbinical legends. The customs of the Jews are
made to conform to those of the Arabians. Islamic
theology consists in the study of the Koran and its
commentaries. A very fine collection of Korans,
including one in Cufic (the old Arabic character), is
to be found in the Khedival Library at Cairo, Egypt.
[Century Dict. 1906]
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 18:09:01 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158273 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158271

For tl;dr the original authentic Qur'an was apparently lost after Mohammad's death.

From that edit/burning of copies to the various Caliphates and Hadiths of questionable sources, it makes me wonder if the Qur'an, much like the Bible, is anything close to the original. I'm sure some monastery somewhere has it though, like the Gnostics who claim to have the missing parts of/original version of the Bible.

Makes me wonder, because the Qur'an's essence appealed to me, there's a good message in it but some of it must be politicized. Whether those are just the parts people find offensive or it's inconsequential I guess we'll never know.
>>
Betsy Bunville - Fri, 19 May 2017 18:28:40 EST ID:sw5oDyXg No.158274 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158273
Isn't the Qur'an meant to be oral though? I mean, that's kinda a big thing in Islamic scholarship to memorize the Qur'an. Dunno if that stops corruption, but its something that it does not share with the bible.
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Jarvis Gigglekit - Fri, 19 May 2017 18:59:15 EST ID:MGe9R5O1 No.158277 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158235
My understanding of zakhat and jizya, is that there were basically early taxation schemes for a welfare state of sorts.

Now, why zakhat is twice jizya? Probably a mix of things. Some might have been general suspicion of outsiders coming into a system. Not wanting them to "take too much." Sound familiar fellow Amerifags? FYI, in the US resident aliens have to pay all the taxes, but get zero benefits from things like SS payments, unemployment, etc. You pay for them, but you don't get them. Nothing new there.

And, there was probably some legitimate practical reason for the price hike. Especially if non-muslims were exempt from other duties. This could have been seen as a safeguard.
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 19:03:17 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158278 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158274

Mohammad supposedly wrote it down so while yes being a Hafiz is a thing part of the miracle of Mohammad's revelation was he was allegedly illiterate before being visited by the angel Gabriel and this contact somehow had him writing and he transcribed and revealed the entire Qur'an over a span of time.

Sounds similar to alien abductions where someone comes away knowing things they previously had no knowledge of in the course of a night.

So yes it was orally transmitted but there was an original written version, probably penned by Mohammad himself.
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William Grimshit - Fri, 19 May 2017 19:03:26 EST ID:kwQHbRfQ No.158279 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158271
Well yeah; who decided wtf to put into the bible (besides the guys at Nicaea) or torah? Also why in Allah's name would god choose to reveal everything to an illiterate in a cave? Couldn't he have taught him to read and write at the same time? At least so he would know people were writing down what he said properly?
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 19:07:02 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158281 Ignore Report Quick Reply
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>>158279

>Couldn't he have taught him to read and write at the same time?

Well that's the thing, he did, the angel Gabriel taught him to read and write and he wrote down the revelations as they came to him see >>158278
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Shit Pockman - Fri, 19 May 2017 19:17:32 EST ID:LK+6jcfe No.158284 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158277


>My understanding of zakhat and jizya, is that there were basically early taxation schemes for a welfare state of sorts.

Well the redpill guy was half right, I made a mistake and jizya is a word in the Qur'an it's just not what he makes it out to be, some kind of save you from the slaughter of unbelievers tax. It's a tax on people defeated in war, where all war that is Islamic, is war waged in self defense ergo you beat someone who attacks you for no reason unprovoked you make them pay for it. Literally. This is obviously something ripe for exploitation by political movements within Muslim cultures where people play around with the principal of aggression or just ignore entirely the parts in Al Baqarah about war only being legitimate in self defense because they aren't in Surah 9 immediately before or after the verse on Jizya. So for the most part, people on both sides, the redpilled /pol/sters and the Muslim extremists will probably ignore Al Baqarah.

>Now, why zakhat is twice jizya? Probably a mix of things. Some might have been general suspicion of outsiders coming into a system. Not wanting them to "take too much."

I don't know. The Jizya is in retaliation for violent attacks on the faithful. It's pretty clear, even in the verse the redpill guy refers to that it's for those people specifically, not just for any outsider.

>Sound familiar fellow Amerifags? FYI, in the US resident aliens have to pay all the taxes, but get zero benefits from things like SS payments, unemployment, etc. You pay for them, but you don't get them. Nothing new there.

A good point and one I weakly tried to make earlier in the thread but to play devil's advocate here for a moment the redpill types usually want to do away with the tax system to a large extent unless I'm out of touch with their current amorphous ideology.

>And, there was probably some legitimate practical reason for the price hike. Especially if non-muslims were exempt from other duties. This could have been seen as a safeguard.

This part and I'm pretty sure of this, the Qur'an has no exact figure on what this tax should be. The Zakat has the nisab which is from Hadiths but not the Qur'an.
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Priscilla Surringlock - Sun, 21 May 2017 12:54:21 EST ID:kwQHbRfQ No.158352 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158281
My bad, I honestly didn't know that. I must have been misinformed. Have any of his writing survived until the present day?
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Emma Semmleham - Sun, 21 May 2017 14:07:45 EST ID:McxUCEp7 No.158359 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158352 we could assume most of the Qur'an is Muhammad's writing but which parts are and which aren't is a mystery.
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Emma Semmleham - Sun, 21 May 2017 14:11:52 EST ID:McxUCEp7 No.158360 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>158359 authorship of any heavily revised religious text is a subject of convolution. Scholarly opinion is helpful but it really is a mystery and what was written in those texts burned by muhammad' s successors may be lost to history.


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