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Governors form Western States Pact to fight pandemic, Trump claims "total authority" in response

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- Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:09:42 EST L8xwP3Jm No.184225
File: 1586902182183.png -(55378B / 54.08KB, 1724x1182) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Governors form Western States Pact to fight pandemic, Trump claims "total authority" in response
https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2020/04/washington-oregon-and-california-unveil-new-alliance-western-states-pact.html
>The United States’ Left Coast governors today made it abundantly clear that they — not Donald Trump — will decide when to lift their Stay Home, Stay Healthy orders and allow businesses that are currently closed to fully reopen.

>Washington’s Jay Inslee, Oregon’s Kate Brown, and California’s Gavin Newsom said in a statement provided to the Northwest Progressive Institute that they have decided to form a new alliance called the Western States Pact.

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/washington-oregon-and-california-announce-western-states-pact

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/us/coronavirus-updates.html
>Trump asserts “total” authority to overrule them.

>Hours after two groups of governors announced that they were forming regional working groups to help plan when it would be safe to ease restrictions and reopen their economies, President Trump asserted in a White House news briefing that the authority to make such decisions rested with him.

>“The president of the United States calls the shots,” Mr. Trump said. “They can’t do anything without the approval of the president of the United States.”

>Asked what provisions of the Constitution gave him the power to override the states if they wanted to remain closed, he said, “Numerous provisions,” without naming any.
>>
Priscilla Chisslestag - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:42:58 EST IWGXHLVJ No.184226 Reply
He's a fucking idiot if he thinks that people will unironically accept fascism. You wouldn't know it from the way people love it and want more of it, but they won't accept it. People will fight for their states, Berkeley cops will never accept US military control of the streets to keep businesses open when the governor wants them closed.
>>
Edwin Crindertene - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:39:45 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184227 Reply
>>184226

Wouldn't it be ironic if Trump himself got a civil war going over state rights again?
>>
Hedda Blobblehutch - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:47:24 EST +caSzARK No.184228 Reply
>>184227
Our congress is fucking retarded, but even I think they'll have his ass bounced out of the White House before it gets that far
>>
Edwin Crindertene - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 19:53:34 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184229 Reply
>>184228

Yeah maybe but it it's still fucked the guy apparently claims authority over the sandbox state governors are elected to control.

In the middle of a pandemic no less. The guy's a moron.
>>
Isabella Nollerdotch - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 01:06:58 EST vddqZalQ No.184242 Reply
>>184226
Yeah, well, most cops are right-wing to begin with, especially in contrast to their local demographics. And second, most cops are former military now or indoctrinated by military style training. The DOJ takes surplus vehicles and equipment from the DOD and donates them to local police departments at the condition of receiving "proper training" in their use. Which is ultimately just military training but with, "Fire if scared" instead of "Fire if only fired upon." Meanwhile, good ole boys lurch at the opportunity to drive APC's and shoot full auto rifles.

I highly, highly doubt that the US police departments will resist military forces. If anything, military forces are shown to defect far more quickly when tasked with firing on citizens or instituting martial law than police. US police are among if not the most quick to abuse a given populace and given authority when prompted to by another authority figure. Studies have been conducted on this multiple times. Also, at the end of the day, the federal level always has authority over the states. Usually government works on a restricting basis. So I'm not sure how it plays out without Federal SCOTUS battles. A state or local municipality typically can set steeper restrictions than the federal level but can't technically say something federally illegal is legal. Funny how authoritarianism works its way from top to bottom. A handful of weird "exceptions" apply though such as sanctuary cities, gay marriage, and weed.

>The end of the day though, the military and police aren't ever going to fight each other in the United States. Not for the foreseeable future at least.
>>
Augustus Pongerpatch - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 07:22:40 EST Vr0E+N13 No.184261 Reply
>>184229
Can you imagine if the governor of someplace like Virginia wanted to keep the state closed, and cheeto tried to use the military to open it up? There would be massive blood and death.
>>
Augustus Pongerpatch - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 07:23:38 EST Vr0E+N13 No.184262 Reply
>>184242
>Yeah, well, most cops are right-wing
>LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT!
Nah. ACAB.
>>
James Pannerfield - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:00:40 EST tlilhxRg No.184268 Reply
>>184242
>If anything, military forces are shown to defect far more quickly when tasked with firing on citizens or instituting martial law than police.

This. The first white guys joining BLM protests were Iraq vets pissed off at American cops treating American citizens with less respect than fucking soldiers treated foreign terrorists in Iraq.

The irony is that if cops ever start towing a fascist line, they're gonna get shot at by vets and soldiers.
>>
Albert Cevinggold - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 17:41:35 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184273 Reply
>>184268

This shouldn't be surprising.

Soldiers are pulled from all walks of life, they are regular people. All they need to know is how to point gun at enemy and fire, most of us can do that. Even with second thoughts about the whole deal a soldier is put into, once the enemy tried to murder him he will fire back if only for the survival of himself and his friends.

Cops are much more vetted. They have to destroy the lives of their own friends if need be and if the law commands. It's a whole other ballpark.
>>
Charles Geffingbanks - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 21:41:23 EST Za9BnM8D No.184277 Reply
>>184268
> The first white guys joining BLM protests

The blm protests were unnecessary. The blm backed away from the climate. This was manufactured by the right. The BLM asks for rights to land, water, resources, If the poor (wealthy) farmer kept up on BLM practices this would not have turned into a dispute. Those who traveled to train their guns on BLM managers were in the wrong. The BLM did not take anything away from.
The farmer had free reign for years to graze his cattle.

This was a event where, simply the farmer was taken advantage by fox news. Glen beck, etc. For political gain.
>>
Molly Munkinford - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 04:29:54 EST vddqZalQ No.184281 Reply
>>184277
Bundy was a tax cheat and used useful idiots like the Oath Keeper and militia crowd. Dude's a scum fuck and a huckster. But I think that post is talking about black lives matters protests, not the Bundy ranch deal.
>>
Walter Wackleset - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 14:06:09 EST fxZPTs+O No.184287 Reply
>>184242
Police departments are for the scruffs that wouldn't make it in the Army. They have lax training and an internal culture that features an "us vs them" mentality with regard to ordinary civilians, who they see as either potential criminals or insufficiently appreciative.

So you touch on some right stuff but I agree with others that military men and women typically aren't coming out as Oath Keepers or as right-wing libertarians. Usually people with military experience come out jaded toward authority because they saw its excesses and inadequacies in action, the same reason we grow suspicious of police every time they kill an unarmed suspect (as you allude to, military rules of engagement are more strict than that of our local police departments).
>>
Nell Crimmerkire - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 14:30:34 EST +caSzARK No.184288 Reply
>>184287
Right, the Army had four levels, Shout, show, shove, shoot which are all self explanatory, and only shoot when shot at, at least when I was in

None of this "i feared for my life" bullshit because the only thing thats gonna do is get the judge whos probably a ranking officer mad at you, your lawyer whos a ranking officer mad at you and 3 hots and a cot in Leavenworth.
>>
Caroline Drillerwud - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 21:37:29 EST AhvFjFWT No.184297 Reply
>>184225
Oregon here. Honestly our governor is an idiot agreeing to keep our state closed until California and Washington are ready. She even went a step farther and said that she wont be calling off the quarantine until 10 days pass without any corona virus deaths in the state.The numbers here are far lower than WA and CA, and our economy is dwarfed by those two states. Already we have had a lot of small businesses going under due to this madness and if this goes on through the summer we are fucked in no uncertain terms. There is nothing good about this deal for us. The only thing Kate Brown is thinking about is her political career.
>>
Cyril Hendleman - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 22:50:33 EST dZDaQqJv No.184302 Reply
>>184301
This. I'm tired of you all and Idaho and Montana shitting up the roads during the quarantine. I need to drive and it's every out of state yokel's time to drive around hauling trailers full of jetskis or some shit. I didn't even know you tax dodgers had businesses down there, maybe tell the rest of your statesmen to start shopping at those instead of coming over the Columbia to save 75 cents and you can pull out of this downturn.
>>
Caroline Drillerwud - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:25:23 EST AhvFjFWT No.184312 Reply
>>184301
>>184302
I am staying home. A lot of people are not however, last time I went into town there were just as many people out as usual and the supermarkets and drive-thoughs at all the fast food restaurants were jam packed with people. So as far as I can see this panic quarantine is about as effective as as a placebo pill. Meanwhile they are talking about extending it indefinitely until there are no more fatalities. It just seems surreal that they can even consider this when so many people are going to be destroyed, not by the virus, but by the prevention measures. There has to be a better way is all I'm saying.
>>
Hamilton Collylick - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 03:19:59 EST snQLimnZ No.184314 Reply
>>184312
The panic is from people that are quarantining realizing we'll never fully get this thing under control until a cure is found because fly over mouth breathers have to prove a point to in a culture war. This thing is about as serious as "say merry Christmas and not happy holidays" to these people but there are real and dire consequences.
>>
Caroline Drillerwud - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:01:15 EST AhvFjFWT No.184322 Reply
>>184318
Like a broken record. I'm starting to wonder if you guys are even real people.
>>
Beatrice Blittingspear - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 12:15:45 EST ZbKQHcFk No.184323 Reply
>>184322
You say there has to be a better way. There isn't. There's your answer. Stay the fuck home, redneck.
>>
Eugene Farringtidge - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 13:55:44 EST Qt1Zsmlf No.184329 Reply
>>184323
No there isn't. This is clearly some librul plot to stop Trump's campaign rallies. We need Trump to start having packed campaign rallies as soon as possible, preferably today. It is their right as Republican boomers to gather in very densely packed protests without wearing masks. Godspeed fellow Republicans I'm doing my part to save America!
>>
Sophie Nicklefoot - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:03:17 EST fxZPTs+O No.184331 Reply
>>184312
>It just seems surreal that they can even consider this when so many people are going to be destroyed, not by the virus, but by the prevention measures

Nobody's going to be destroyed by having to stay home. I've seen conservatives use this talking point that so many people died in the Great Depression from "diseases of despair" (they only just started caring about these things, btw, we had Republicans running for Governor here in Louisiana who were handing out opioids like they were candy and who were still pushing for marijuana prohibition as late as today) but total death rates were lower than previously, in part because high unemployment meant people were - ironically - less stressed; no boss to worry about, no need to worry about workplace accidents (which were especially common back then), no need for other occupational hazards.

If our government nutted up, nationalized some supply chains, and started sending out rations to people who are quarantined and locked down, we'd be far better off. But our government hears the word "ration" and shudders. Rationing is something that only the market is wise enough to do for these cretins, although the fact that the market rations according to ability to pay is conveniently left out from their narratives.

So yes, there is a better way, but conservatives aren't going to do it. They're going to "reopen the economy" and kill hundreds of thousands of more people, and cause permanent lung damage to millions more, so that we can get GDP growth per quarter one iota higher. This is fucking insanity. America and the post-cold war global order is circling the fucking drain.
>>
James Pocklock - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:25:45 EST GW1axdWk No.184337 Reply
>>184328
Sending all of my support to the new Great Lakes Khanate, may it bloom like a hundred flowers.
>>
Beatrice Blittingspear - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:29:18 EST ZbKQHcFk No.184339 Reply
>>184337
I'd rather have Chairman Bernie than Khagan Whitmer
>>
Nell Hangerfidging - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 18:30:54 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184345 Reply
>>184331

>I've seen conservatives use this talking point that so many people died in the Great Depression from "diseases of despair"

So those conservatives are advocating for 30's levels of death rate?
Well ok America, one thing is the sacrifice of living beings for the economy but god damn that is going to hell for being a psychopath tier.

America can afford at least slowing the spread enough to learn enough of of how Covid works so people who could be saved fucking live. Is lives no longer worth anything for these people? Are they that much like Sweden?
>>
Kirtaner !Ub4TCdRjOM - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 07:55:53 EST h4jWQfxr No.184376 Reply
>>184268
Brother in law is a combat vet from iraq and afghanistan

Can confirm, absolutely loathes cops and routinely reminds me of his wish that one would give him a reason to cap a pig
>>
Ian Siggletetch - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:03:50 EST O/BUJHAn No.184377 Reply
>>184331
Let them do it. They'll get tons of their own killed and crash their own economy. Why protect people from their own stupidity?
>>
Martin Goodhall - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 08:35:30 EST SILjX1Tf No.184379 Reply
>>184377
>They'll get tons of their own killed
They'll also kill tons of mostly poor, young and/or minority service workers who have no choice in the matter.
>>
Cyril Bezzlekedging - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:29:46 EST dzeZUg3O No.184383 Reply
>>184377
Because there's not just a monolithic mass of people that all made a choice together, there are individuals out there who don't deserve to have the virus brought to them by their family and neighbors, millions and millions of them. Goddam, you're doing the same thing they are. Three states got singled out for DT tweeting support for the insurrection, all three with Democrat governors. At some point you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.
>>
Oliver Goodbury - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 18:43:59 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184412 Reply
>>184377

How about making an effort to care, even if they're stupid?

Mass death from stupidity is the saddest thing you can find in this world IMO. At least people killing people has some form of intent behind it. A virus has no intent or reason.

At least try to show the dumb-dumbs the errors of their ways rather than being callous about it.
>>
Nathaniel Nogglespear - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 19:22:59 EST vddqZalQ No.184414 Reply
>>184331
You're a fucking idiot dude thinking in black and white simple solutions to one of the most complex issues the world has ever faced.

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue but I can tell you, "Stay the fuck at home redneck" and just let the world runs its course and go to work no matter what are not good solutions to either problem.

Look dude, I've lost my job, my previous employer has shut their doors permanently, my state's computers run on software that is 40 years old for unemployment claims, I've gotten nothing but the stimulus check so far in 3 weeks time, and I have burnt up 40% of my savings and had to get a deferment on my mortgage which will hit my credit and cost me money for years to come. My city requires me to have a letter to be outside for non-essential shit meaning I can't just do odd jobs and shit, and basically, if this goes on for more than another month or two, I'll literally be forced to start taking food illegally. The government has locked us down and assumes we can get food and supplies from out savings or unemployment. Unemployment is broken for me, and when it does come through, I'll get maybe 100 bucks a week assuming I don't get this 600/wk deal if unemployment ever unfucks itself and my state gets its shit together.

Even after all that, the economy is going to be fucking wrecked for years after this shit. I could very possibly end up homeless like millions of other Americans if this shit keeps on. I mean really, the only people dying from this are people with one foot already in the grave. Are we going to sacrifice the futures of millions of young people struggling to survive just to let some old diabetic fucker with COPD live another couple years? It is morbid as fuck and a tough decision, and I don't know what to really say about it but fuck man, it could be 10 years before my life gets back on track after this shit. I was struggling under the "Greatest Economy We've Ever Had!" I can't fathom the 4+ years after all this shit dies down for everything to stabilize. I'm poor, and was poor before this started. Sitting at home like a dumb redneck with my dick in my hand isn't an option. Unemployment won't even last that long because I hadn't had my previous job but for a few months. There are droves of people like me in a bad spot and will suffer greatly for years if we don't get back to the daily grind. The flip side is, there are droves of people who will die a few years earlier if we don't shut the country down for a year or two. And no matter what we do, thousands upon thousands will die no matter what from this.

>Stop being such a reactionary political pawn. This is a bad situation being made absolutely horrendous by media sensationalism and political hacks trying to get 1 iota further in their career.
>>
Caroline Sizzleforth - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:41:04 EST O/BUJHAn No.184421 Reply
>>184412
By definition they cannot learn error of their ways. All they can do is put useful innocent people in harm's way. Whole situation must be triaged. Your mistake was in thinking they can learn from their mistakes, or wanting to.
>>
Caroline Sizzleforth - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 22:45:49 EST O/BUJHAn No.184422 Reply
>>184414
>Are we going to sacrifice the futures of millions of young people struggling to survive just to let some old diabetic fucker with COPD live another couple year
And I stopped taking you seriously here. You are stupid and uniformed. It kills those people faster. It kills many people who have no health problems and are young too. They don't die as fast partly because hospitals triage old people with COPD and let's them die then gives scarce resources to young healthy people to keep them alive instead. Then everyone else cannot go to hospital because suddenly every hospital is clogged with sick people so death rates from all other causes skyrocket even if it did only kill old people, which it does not. Where you even find such stupid shit?

Maybe, Capitalist society itself is pure fucking cancer and this entire post explains very well why it is?
>>
Thomas Drenkinfoot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:50:57 EST vddqZalQ No.184427 Reply
1587282657292.png -(180141B / 175.92KB, 960x975) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>184422
I think you're the one that is stupid and uninformed. People under 55 are not dying in statistically relevant numbers with or without treatment. The death rate for people under 35 is a fraction of a percent. Get fucked faggot.
>>
Nathaniel Tootford - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:06:16 EST PRCZcbFI No.184430 Reply
>>184414
If your life is fucked as a result of this, you adapt. You don't put people at risk in an attempt to get back to your routine, it's not worth it. You change. It's wrong of you to insist everyone else accept risk of death for your economic health. Adapt or perish.
>>
Nathaniel Tootford - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:07:16 EST PRCZcbFI No.184431 Reply
>>184422
>Maybe, Capitalist society itself is pure fucking cancer and this entire post explains very well why it is?
qft
>>
Henry Ceshdud - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:09:05 EST tlilhxRg No.184433 Reply
>>184427
In countries like Italy, China, Spain, Taiwan and South-Korea. Countries with functional public health systems, often with really cheap but extremely good healthcare systems.

The USA will become a FUCKING SLAUGHTER.

Not just because the USA has shitty expensive healthcare, but because OBESITY CHANGES EVERYTHING. And the USA has a REAL fucking problem with obesity.

The streets will be covered in the corpses of dying cralwing fatties trying to reach the hospital.
>>
Edward Gimblekot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:42:27 EST GW1axdWk No.184435 Reply
1587300147178.jpg -(58757B / 57.38KB, 960x705) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Americans:
>socialism is bad because collectivism and brainwashing and lack of individual worth

Also Americans:
>you must sacrifice yourself and your parents/grandparents to make The Line go up
>>
Nathaniel Tootford - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 08:47:57 EST PRCZcbFI No.184436 Reply
1587300477736.jpg -(8564B / 8.36KB, 390x280) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>184433
Oh MY FUCKING GOD everyone is going to DIE in HORRIBLE AGONY aaaaaaaa oh God aaaaaa the COOF got me aaaa
>>
Thomas Drenkinfoot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:30:15 EST vddqZalQ No.184437 Reply
>>184430
I bet you're the same kind of faggot who will say this but in another post bitch about the impoverished in this country just being unable to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and take charge of their situation.

I'm not bitching about you routine you stupid god damn nitwit, I'm talking about ending up in bankruptcy and homeless at 30 and spending years crawling my way back into even a hovel only for the next recession to happen like clockwork because we decided it was worth it to keep 70+ year olds alive for an extra few months who were already living with one foot in the grave. God damn man, the people on the internet have gotten so fucking stupid. You act like I'm just someone who is annoyed I can't go to bars or some shit. Can you fucking even read at all? If they lock the country down for another several months, I and many other people will be forced to make bad decisions about taking the bare necessities by force. This isn't a pretty picture we have here. And it isn't about a handful of people being inconvenienced or slightly uncomfortable. It is about literally making decisions like killing your pet to eat it or loading up on guns and bullets and start killing people for food. In a sick way, I've gotten so fucking god damned tired of stupid shits like you and this whole crowd of completely idiotic internet users I almost wish it would happen just to see you ignorant fucks suffer down here at the bottom with the rest of us. You clearly don't have any idea what is at stake here.

>I live in the hood. Everyone here is running out of money and supplies. If it wasn't for this check and the unemployment that a handful of people are getting and trickling out to their family, we'd be maybe 2 weeks from looting locally.

You must just be some little entitled white boy living in an area with plenty of safety net money and civilized upstanding people that can outlast 6-12 months of being locked away at home. I'm already selling some of my possessions at cut rate prices just to have some money for food. You just wait and see, when a million people are in your city starving and fighting each other, I'm sure you'll still be singing the tune that we need to let the ancient and infirm who are already near death keep on living for another few months you elitist cunt. Of course, I know your reactionary type. You'll jump on some other hot-topic bullshit media target to hate on. I'm sure black folks will be the problem for fighting to survive and we need marshal law to protect our boys in blue or some shit. This is a terrible situation and won't be going away anytime soon and anything anybody does to try and fix it will have cascading and unknown side effects for years to come. Thinking we can all just sit at home and watch TV is fucking idiotic. Get fucked you braindead asswipe.
>>
Shit Dunkinsut - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 10:56:32 EST 4iOFpMwy No.184440 Reply
>>184437
>I bet you're the same kind of faggot
That's the kind of phrase that says INCOMING STRAWMAN so I just skip the entire post.
>>
William Worthinglock - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:07:37 EST +ckblP9v No.184441 Reply
>>184437

>Your entitled because you don't want people to die.

Fuck off, your little survival of the fittest idea just isn't that simple. If you cant survive in the wild by yourself for an extended period of time RIGHT NOW, without your phone, public transportation, groceries stores, etc then I would think a bit more critically about what would happen to your snapchat struggle lifestyle with muh boomers eliminated, because if you think that it's going to get any easier you are fucked. Maybe for society in 50+ years, but really bad for the nation as a whole right now. Like yeah culling the ignorant dumb old people is cool at first, but if you can't see the virtue in wanting to save lives at this stage you are a true POS garbo human being and may non-existent god have mercy on your soul you magnificently misguided human being.
>>
Cyril Bimmlefick - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 11:24:01 EST mSqeIz7v No.184442 Reply
>>184437
I'm here, talk to me. Don't paint my caricature and throw beer cans at it.

This is you exacerbating the conditions that are causing the economic hardship you're experiencing. Did you think life would be without hardship? Regardless of what you did and what circumstances brought you here, you are still in the richest country in the world. There's plenty of food without you running around the neighborhoods thieving and marauding. They're having trouble finding people to pick crops and gas is cheaper than ever. They're hiring a thousand people at the distribution center here for Walmart, they're hiring people to contact trace. You need to learn to adapt. You may not be able to go back to the way your life used to be. That's something that happens. You choose what to do from here. You can choose to work and make your life better or you can take government handouts and rob stores.
>>
Thomas Drenkinfoot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 13:51:41 EST vddqZalQ No.184446 Reply
>>184441
You diction fucking sucks first of all, second; fucking over everyone who is 10-40 years old will have far harsher effects and cause far more misery and suffering than letting people who are near death go ahead and kick the bucket. And don't give me your horseshit media lies about 20 year olds dying in droves because it is bullshit and statistically unfounded. Sure, there are a few statistical anomalies of young people dying but it is an anomaly and not the normal trend and in addition to that, the young people who are dying almost always have other health complications making them far more vulnerable. I'm not saying close the hospitals and just let everyone perish but what I am saying is, if you shove an entire generation into abject poverty just as they are trying to make it in the world, you'll have skyrocketing suicides, murders, a decimated birth rate, and a new wave of poverty in this country. And the poor in this country don't behave themselves well nor support society substantially in a positive manner and also are neglected systematically by the government.

It is a trade off based around a phobia and distance from death and dying. This shit has brought old school life facts back around when they were previously hidden away. We shuffled grammy off into a home where we didn't have to see and deal with her shitting herself 24/7, being combative, and having their body rot away while clinging onto life desperately. Death is gruesome and terrifying to most. And now the reality of death is shoved in everyone's faces and they've been so distance from it that they are freaking out. We're trying to slow down death for people who are in the process of dying as it is at the cost of the economic prosperity of every American citizen from age 0-45. It is downright idiotic to keep the country locked down for significantly longer. You're just too short sighted. The US alone is losing an estimated 5% GDP with each month that we are shutdown. In the 08 financial crisis we lost 4.2% in GDP from 07-09. Think of how bad that was if you are even old enough to remember. Each month we are witnessing the entirety of 2008's crash and recession plus a fair chunk more on top of that. This is going to have decades worth of negative impacts and will crush the economic prosperity of millions of Americans. Can you not see how there is a least some legitimacy of trying to get the country back moving? The government's deficit was around 20 trillion dollars. In just one stimulus package we raised our national debt by nearly 10% with the stroke of a pen. Who the fuck do you think is going to end up paying for this?

>In a perfect world we could just print money and hand it out to everyone who sits at home watching Tiger King and wait it out and slowly reopen shit in a years time. But that is fantasy. People are just going to have to die one way or another or your going to collapse the world economy in short order.

>>184442
Your premise is attacking me as an individual, it doesn't make a difference what I do individually. I might could find a job paying peanuts and survive. Sure, maybe my neighbor can too. But the job market has shrunk massively. You can't point to anecdotal evidence of saying, "Well I got 3k unfilled jobs in my area! So things must be okay!" The fact is, millions of people are already unemployed, Trump set up the economy by pouring gas on a tire fire, and things will only go downhill deeply from now on. The fact of the matter is, if this goes on for much longer, either government handouts cause runaway inflation and people scrape by until the economy comes back, or the government gets stingy and doesn't give out anything else and people are left to rot. To be honest, living in trailer parks and ghettos all my life and seeing what poor people are like, your sunny optimism makes me sick. These kinds of people rob and loot when the times are good. What do you think their modus operandi will be once they realize they can't get a job at McDonald's or Walmart and are without money and hungry. America is a distinctly violent and narcissistic culture with lots of differences among its peoples and droves of uneducated, short-sighted poor people.

>My whole point in all of this is that I reason that should the government stay locked down for more than 2-3 more months a few things will happen:

  1. The government isn't going to hand out more money to poor people.
  2. Jobs are already decimated and the empty gussied up husk of our economy will really implode leaving tens of millions without income.
  3. Millions are going to die, just as they would have anyways.
  4. The economic prosperity of future America will be utterly fucked.
  5. A surveillance nanny state is woefully imminent.
  6. Poor people are going to end up angry, divided, and hungry. And likely well armed.

The cure seems like it could be worse than the illness. Yeah it is cruel and heartless to say, "Welp sorry you old bastard but you're going to have to die for the greater good. Eat some spinach and hope you make it through this." But to be honest, those people have already lived their lives and lived in the easiest times in the US. I don't want to witness the US going down the tubes over this stupid virus shit because I know how quickly people can jump to emotional thinking. And if the US is having widespread rioting and looting, you think foreign powers vying for knocking off the world super power aren't praying everyday that the US goes down in flames from this shit? All of those reopen campaigns are sponsored by foreign governments. And they don't care about reopening the country or anything, they're just trying to sow strife and divide the country. Something that they've already done very successfully.
>>
Esther Clayfoot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:42:40 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184450 Reply
>>184446
>it doesn't make a difference what I do individually.
That's correct, if you've given up, then all that's left is for you to get three hots and a cot for a year until this blows over or you die in there. The only thing that makes a difference is what you do individually. Since you don't believe that, you're just going to spread disease and cause civil unrest, so let's put you away.
>>
Fanny Bonnerluck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:11:57 EST AhvFjFWT No.184451 Reply
>>184450
>Since you don't believe that, you're just going to spread disease and cause civil unrest, so let's put you away.

Interesting how quickly people get comfortable with authoritarianism when they are scared shitless.
>>
Esther Clayfoot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:20:23 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184452 Reply
>>184451
Accepting the abridgement of your right to loot stores in order to save my life is being comfortable with authoritarianism, huh. Just admit that you want to do what you want to do, and you don't give a crap about anyone else, and don't try to frame this as an argument over rights and authoritarianism. You literally just said that you would become a criminal before you got a legit job. You're dangerous.
>>
Fanny Bonnerluck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:34:55 EST AhvFjFWT No.184454 Reply
>>184452
I'm not even the same poster, but I keep hearing the same ideas echoed about locking people up for their own safety and the safety of the public. Call me what you want but anyone who suggests this kind of thing is another kind of dangerous altogether. I know a lot of armed citizens that will resist if it comes down to that, and good luck convincing the army and police to enforce locking up innocent people "for their own good".
>>
Lillian Blingerchetch - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:37:52 EST dzeZUg3O No.184456 Reply
>>184454
So resist. The numbers show that staying in saves lives and running around outside kills people by the hundreds and causes much senseless death. This isn't about your rights. You're making it all about you.
>good luck convincing the army and police to enforce locking up innocent people "for their own good".
It's for MY own good and the cops work for me, at least they do here. Stay home, redneck.
>>
Fanny Bonnerluck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:48:18 EST AhvFjFWT No.184457 Reply
>>184456
>Its not about your rights, its about my safety!
I think we already got that much faggot.
>>
Edward Gimblekot - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:54:46 EST GW1axdWk No.184458 Reply
>>184454
>I know a lot of armed citizens that will resist if it comes down to that
>Shooting people out of a duty to intentionally spread a plague as much as possible.
America isn't just a death cult, it's a Nurgle death cult.
>>
Lillian Blingerchetch - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 17:58:14 EST dzeZUg3O No.184459 Reply
>>184457
Better stay on the capitol steps where the cameras are. Cops here will just waste you for starting shit. They've seen too much death already to let you kill more on purpose.
>>
Lillian Blingerchetch - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:00:46 EST dzeZUg3O No.184460 Reply
>>184457
Just a question, if you guys are /against/ authoritarianism, why do you invariably elect authoritarians?
>>
Caroline Sizzleforth - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:04:48 EST O/BUJHAn No.184461 Reply
1587333888950.jpg -(6122B / 5.98KB, 200x180) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>184454
Hahaha good go and protest my fellow USAian patriot! We must attend many such protests! Them librals must know our freedoms! We truly can make UAS great again!
>>
Fanny Bonnerluck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:36:18 EST AhvFjFWT No.184462 Reply
>>184460
Who the fuck is "you guys"? You act like anyone who is concerned about stripping away civil rights and indefinite lock-downs with no end in sight is a rabid alt-right Trump supporter. Not that it matters what my political compass is but I was going to vote for Bernie (even though I had my doubts that he could accomplish much) and now that that's out I'll probably go independent because I hate corporate puppet hacks. My point is that people from all over the political spectrum are questioning just how far is too far. I've been compliant with the quarantine and will continue to be, but I'm not about to hand over my rights or the rights of my fellow citizens just because someone tells me its the only way we are going to reduce the number of deaths. I don't like how people are normalizing this kind of thing and I'm seeing it headed in a bad direction. So let me turn the question around on you, if you are against authoritarianism why do you invariably support authoritarian measures when it comes to a time of crisis? You people are begging to have your rights stripped away because the media told you its the only way to defeat the scary virus.
>>
Walter Dandlefuck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:40:55 EST /OAV8DIa No.184463 Reply
1587336055055.png -(88773B / 86.69KB, 721x431) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
DICKS EVERYWHERE
>>
Caroline Sizzleforth - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:59:55 EST O/BUJHAn No.184464 Reply
>>184462
This man is correct. Freedom loving USAians *must* protest our right to peacefully assemble and protest and go buy burgers whenever we want. Government has gone too far.
>>
Fanny Bonnerluck - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 19:15:53 EST AhvFjFWT No.184465 Reply
>>184464
Thanks for the support chinabot lol.

Actually its not even about the right peacefully assemble or protest. I think that those are important rights too, but I can understand them being curtailed to some extent in this specific situation.
>>
Eliza Cheddlehidge - Sun, 19 Apr 2020 21:26:46 EST dLMeVl9J No.184472 Reply
The USA is an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state now.

The elites control Hollywood, the media, Wall Street, and the government.

What if actors, reporters, politicians, and bankers risked their jobs for the 99% by smearing the elites every chance they could?

What if the Gestapo refused to arrest people for victimless crimes, Americans refused to obey the law, the TSA refused to grope people, soldiers refused to go to war, taxpayers refused to pay taxes, NSA agents quit, CIA agents refused to torture, IRS agents refused to collect taxes, and juries refused to convict people?

Are Americans crippled retards? Are Americans just victims? Isn't anyone responsible for anything?

Spread the word.
>>
Graham Duckstone - Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:16:55 EST dzeZUg3O No.184474 Reply
>>184462
Making you stay home and not buy shit is not an authoritarian measure. Knock off your incendiary rhetoric. You know how I know you're a Trump guy? You mentioned him. I was referring to Americans.
>>
Graham Duckstone - Mon, 20 Apr 2020 00:19:13 EST dzeZUg3O No.184475 Reply
>>184462
And as for me I would be successful under any government and I mindfully accept that I will not agree with what the government does. Authoritarianism wouldn't stop me from being successful, this quarantine isn't stopping me from being successful, the economic downturn doesn't stop me from being successful. These things impede your success because you are childishly stubborn and unwilling to adapt and for no other reason. You've been poor all your life and no doubt have been giving the same excuses.
>>
Reuben Clandlegold - Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:13:38 EST O/BUJHAn No.184512 Reply
>>184508
Deng betrayed Marxism

Deng betrayed Mao

Deng betrayed Chinese people and Xi is his lapdog
>>
Phyllis Buzzshaw - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 03:22:10 EST vddqZalQ No.184521 Reply
>>184474
>Making you stay home and not buy shit is not an authoritarian measure.


>You can't go outside, you can't go shopping but for food only or you'll be arrested!
>This is not authoritarian!

Well then, I think I'll have to check my dictionary for the meaning of authoritarianism. Because I'll be damned if I didn't think this is the exact kind of thing the most authoritarian places on Earth tend to implement.
>>
Hugh Hellerchadge - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:52:10 EST pyG5d99p No.184524 Reply
>>184521
Okay so all those people who are under house arrest are being similarly oppressed, why not head to the trailer park and grab some? The most authoritarian places on earth also make you pay sales tax and curb your dog, are you going to support their revolution too? Fuck you, redneck che.
>>
Martha Brullyshit - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:54:08 EST E2Yofruj No.184525 Reply
>>184521
Dude there are no reports from any modern democracy of arrests happening because of break of quarantine. In many cases it's not even a misdemeanor and just a simple ticket.
Just reckless behavior can get you a more substantial fine and some legal consequences and that's way lenient.

If you want to complain look at right wing populists in Hungary, Poland, Turkey and Israel using the crisis to consolidate political power. That might have repercussions till well after this is over and lead to actual authoritarianism years down the line.
>>
Hugh Hellerchadge - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:55:48 EST pyG5d99p No.184526 Reply
>>184525
In a year there might not be a Turkey. Poland and Hungary more or less have their shit together in general. Good luck to all tho.
>>
Martha Brullyshit - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:01:14 EST E2Yofruj No.184533 Reply
>>184532
That the USA has a higher risk of "not being there in a year" from this pandemic than Turkey.
>>
Charlotte Dartfoot - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:28:24 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184540 Reply
>>184533
That's absurd and I think you know it. The public health response has nothing to do with your country's national stability, and if you don't believe that already, you're going to learn it firsthand in just a bit.
>>
Martha Brullyshit - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:10:07 EST E2Yofruj No.184544 Reply
>>184540
It's absurd to think modern nations aren't stable enough to handle the pandemic in general.
The problem I see is a scenario where the final outcome of the pandemic reaches full saturation, killing something like 1-2% of the population despite extraordinary amount of resources being spent to prevent that.
That means a double hit one from a permanent drop of productivity from lots of people dying along with the toll the measures took to unsuccessfully prevent these deaths.
Sadly the US is the only developed country right now that has a decent risk of this scenario.
>>
Charlotte Dartfoot - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 10:36:34 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184551 Reply
>>184550
>the United States has contracted an anime cartoon superflu that kills FOUR TIMES the number of people as anywhere else

S C I E N C E
C
I
E
N
C
E
>>
Augustus Goodwell - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 11:11:41 EST GW1axdWk No.184555 Reply
1587481901247.jpg -(65802B / 64.26KB, 533x680) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>184550
>thunderf00t's video
Crazy to think that Anita Sarkeesian was behing this supervirus the whole time smdh what a monster ):<
>>
Charlotte Dartfoot - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 11:38:26 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184556 Reply
>>184553
FOUR TIMES

It's unheard-of to the point where if you submitted a paper that suggested it, your paper would be summarily rejected by the gatekeeper editors. It would be a totally different virus.
>>
Phyllis Buzzshaw - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:03:32 EST vddqZalQ No.184565 Reply
I wonder where people's opinions and posts would lie and be like if Clinton was president during this shitfest. I mean, come the fuck on,

>Turkey will make it out of this better than the US for the sole reason of them apparently having "national healthcare" despite it being a complete dictatorship where all dissidents were purged less than 5 years ago and the US will be more authoritarian than Turkey after the dust has settled.

Come the fuck on dude, really? This coronavirus shit is melting people's brains first before their lungs. This is getting just fucking idiotic. Turkey is a rogue shithole run by a dictatorial fuckstick that is only allowed to exist because of their previous political ties and business/defense pacts with the US.

>fukkin come on bruh git reel fam
>>
Jenny Fubbleman - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:16:31 EST w8j1ZANF No.184567 Reply
>Make $1000 a week due to unemployment and the $600 bonus
>More than double what I make normally

Why would I want to go back to work again?
>>
Martha Brullyshit - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:11:47 EST E2Yofruj No.184568 Reply
>>184565
>I wonder where people's opinions and posts would lie and be like if Clinton was president during this shitfest
Pretty much the same.
On the conservative side there would be more of these anti-lockdown demonstrations.
On the liberal side there would be less angst but also more smugness.
Except perhaps the left would be able to through wrenches into the bailouts somewhat and there would be open calls to nationalize everything.
> Turkey is a rogue shithole run by a dictatorial fuckstick that is only allowed to exist because ...
It is, but that on itself doesn't really prevent them from fighting the pandemic in an effective way.
Here's some extreme example: Consider if you had a The Matrix style AI that wants nothing but as many people surviving this. It might stuff people into tanks and hook them up to feeding tubes and so on.
This, within the limitations of real world possibilities is what China has done. They welded people into their homes and gave them bread & water for a month.

I fucking hate authoritarianism but I have to admit that it can make people not do stupid shit if they are inclined to to stupid shit. Doing stupid shit in regards to not social distancing is a choice in modern democracies and the inclination to do that is culture dependent not political.
>>
Polly Humblefuck - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:16:20 EST f1NzfGMH No.184569 Reply
>>184567
That money is designed to restart the economy. Spending it is making you poorer and a handful of people richer. This is your own money being lent back to you at a very low rate. You will be paying every dime of it back.
>>
Reuben Clandlegold - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 18:42:51 EST O/BUJHAn No.184573 Reply
>>184568
Just imagine, that we did not survive hundreds pandemics through history weeding out stupid people.
>>
Basil Dicklehall - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:49:53 EST odEWg5xh No.184600 Reply
>>184572
He's not, he read the same article out of Kentucky as I did, from the coffee shop owner.
>>
Basil Dicklehall - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:12:20 EST odEWg5xh No.184602 Reply
Holy fucking GOD
Americans are like OH FUCK and the elites are like RAHHHH FUCK YOU WERE GONNA MAKE BLACKSMITHING ILLEGAL and Americans are like YAAAAAY whoremongering! please, steak!!!
>>
Basil Dicklehall - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 07:40:30 EST odEWg5xh No.184605 Reply
YeeeeeAAAAAAAOOOOOOWWWWWW

Listen I'm like OH FUUUUUU the goddam elites are like RAHHHH and I'm like JEEEEEEZZZZUUUUUSSSSSSS cuz I'm posting from a padded cell surrounded by food, entertainment, and good weed but if you tickle my forebrain right you might get me stressed out about dumb fuck politics BLAAAAAAAA
>>
Hugh Mazzlewell - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 17:07:18 EST vddqZalQ No.184624 Reply
>Everyone everywhere seizing political, social, or ideological power during a crisis.

Youtube to ban any medically unsubstantiated content using WHO guidelines and recommendations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52388586

Wonder just how much power the government and megacorps are going to hold once all this dust settles.
>>
Hamilton Nommlemidge - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 22:21:03 EST Za9BnM8D No.184629 Reply
>>184603
>Tuition is expensive because of student loans.

I tried to get a Pell Grant. Denied. I passed GED without out thinking.
Pell grant was denied
>>
Beatrice Buzzford - Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:13:09 EST ClNMEJ6U No.184636 Reply
>>184629
It's no mystery why tuition increases every year to exactly the amount students are allowed to borrow. Sorry about your experience, but the reason tuition is expensive is because of the free money from the student loan system. Once profit can be a motive it becomes the motive.
>>
Emma Dinderford - Sun, 26 Apr 2020 00:50:42 EST fxZPTs+O No.184700 Reply
>>184603
>Almost every problem in the US is caused by the government.

No, I think a lot of them are actually caused by private enterprises creating social costs, and through regulatory capture because of the flawed institutions of government. I think "it's all the government's fault!" is actually even what the parties responsible for this mess would even like for you to believe, because it deflects the blame and generates a cynicism toward public action that prevents private enterprises from ever being accountable for the social costs they generate.

Like take this one for example:
>Rents and medical care are expensive because of regulations.

Rent and medical care are expensive because of patent monopolies and landlord rents, not because of a highly burdensome regulatory system. And don't forget Trump, an avid deregulator, has been in power for three years, and the cost of rent has not declined anywhere. I don't think you understand how pricing works and how social power plays into the process. I don't think you understand economics at all in fact. I think you're a great big phoney!
>>
Eliza Gablingsure - Mon, 27 Apr 2020 00:15:17 EST SO/DlKfa No.184717 Reply
states rights, right?
>>
Nicholas Goddlestone - Thu, 30 Apr 2020 06:42:13 EST glTXoVFh No.184806 Reply
>>184794
>doesn't know what a federal system is
>doesn't understand the necessity for regional trade pacts in continental countries
This happens inside states too. Are you in somewhere small and out of the way where they don't study this stuff?
>>
Reuben Sevingfet - Sat, 02 May 2020 08:34:12 EST dzeZUg3O No.184844 Reply
>>184843
Why do you talk like that? Why are you being so incendiary? Why are you demonizing people for using the system the way it's set up instead of the people who set it up what way?
>>
Lydia Craffingfield - Sat, 02 May 2020 08:46:36 EST GW1axdWk No.184848 Reply
>>184844
>Why are you demonizing people for threatening to kill thousands with a plague if they don't do more racism?
Why indeed, Trumptard.

Why, indeed.
>>
Ernest Clugglestone - Sat, 02 May 2020 10:45:52 EST tlilhxRg No.184850 Reply
>>184849
Maybe it's about time to ice some ICE motherfuckers. Judges lately said you can get away with killing cops as long as you're white anyway.
>>
Reuben Sevingfet - Sat, 02 May 2020 11:53:01 EST dzeZUg3O No.184852 Reply
>>184848
>democrats did nothing wrong
>all victims of circumstance
>every single time
>t-trumpTARD
Hold all of your leaders to higher standards or this will keep happening, what can I say?
>>184850
Get the fuck out, violence shill. Did you get your screenshot yet? Fuck off.
>>
Emma Suttingpune - Sat, 02 May 2020 18:19:20 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184856 Reply
Why can't a simple talk about America just be a civil conversation instead of this?

Ignore trolls.
>>
Eliza Weddlebanks - Sun, 03 May 2020 08:40:49 EST hCAKuWBQ No.184871 Reply
>>184856
Why does every conversation have to become about American politics?
>>
David Clayfield - Sun, 03 May 2020 19:11:41 EST GYsJBwcY No.184887 Reply
>>184856
American culture is too young to handle civil dialogue. Give it another five hundred years and a couple of breakups.
>>
Walter Blomblehore - Mon, 04 May 2020 16:52:19 EST O/BUJHAn No.184911 Reply
>>184895
Yes China indeed have much superior system. On USA, people cry when asked what freedom was like. On China, nobody cry. They ask, what was freedom?
>>
Angus Summlelore - Tue, 05 May 2020 20:59:27 EST bjMndAIk No.184928 Reply
Do Americans think living in a police state is acceptable if the rest of the world suffers under tyranny, too?
>>
Cedric Chorringmerk - Sun, 31 May 2020 11:49:32 EST fxZPTs+O No.185682 Reply
>>185670
lol no but we're going to pretend it is until we all catch it in two weeks.
>>
Walter Songermick - Mon, 01 Jun 2020 09:59:50 EST O/BUJHAn No.185695 Reply
>>185670
>>185670
From it looks, no. USA still such failure, it worst country on whole planet with virus. Then, Brasil. USA is Brasil same level. What dumb fucks. Well yes I know Russia is also but, we all know it ran by retarded gangsters so such things happens. But I say, still USA is world worst retards of nations and on third worlders levels.
>>
Nicholas Murdworth - Tue, 02 Jun 2020 07:40:44 EST vJzt15Nj No.185707 Reply
>>185695
In terms of deaths and cases the US isn't actually doing so badly relative to it's population. However it may also have a much longer rise ahead of it.

Belgium has the highest stats but it counts any suspected cases which no other country does and this accounts for more than half its figures so actually the worst country currently is Spain followed by the UK. Also ignoring countries the size of a city because a few cases skews them massively.

We won't know who handled it worse until it's over, but as time goes on, and all countries have their peak we won't have any idea. And even then some countries will have second peaks. It's a constantly evolving picture but just using totals is deceptive.
>>
Hannah Wishfin - Tue, 02 Jun 2020 13:19:00 EST JK6kkoTa No.185711 Reply
>>185707
Truth is, there's no way to accurately state the deadliness of a pandemic until it's over.
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