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- Fri, 24 Apr 2020 00:35:26 EST /koWgFFp No.184661
File: 1587702926360.jpg -(7026B / 6.86KB, 474x295) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Sweden
No more coal.Hopefully air pollution will be reduced...
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/04/22/sweden-exits-coal-two-years-early/
>>
Sidney Wellerpure - Sat, 25 Apr 2020 18:15:13 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184683 Reply
Why burn coal when you can buy cheap gas from Norway and Russia and is also a nuclear powered country?

Honestly it is surprising Sweden got off coal as late as 2020.
>>
Ebenezer Senderbanks - Sat, 25 Apr 2020 18:50:20 EST O/BUJHAn No.184689 Reply
>>184683
Because such pedophile thief will use NatGas to extort Sweden? You not knowing how Russian policy even works do you? Every winter Russia likes threatening to cut off gas to any European country stupid enough to rely on them for heat and electric.
>>
Martin Crengerhall - Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:16:21 EST y8N9UoMF No.184708 Reply
>>184689
They only threaten other poor slav countries. They wouldn't dare to do it to influential countries and they'd be retarded to cut off their only steady income source.
>>
Phineas Fanningfield - Sun, 26 Apr 2020 22:19:25 EST O/BUJHAn No.184715 Reply
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>>184708
>Sweden
>influential
Sweden does not look very big to me. Why you think we fly fighters and sail submarine and warship by them all this times?
>>
Henry Shakestock - Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:54:22 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184743 Reply
>>184699

Yes. Most Western countries do. Sweden also had a nuclear bomb project once but we're not talking about that one anymore.

Basically all of the West have research reactors too, being a western nation that doesn't have nuclear capabilities is kind of being a unicorn.
>>
Martin Tootway - Fri, 01 May 2020 19:44:11 EST igqge/8L No.184828 Reply
Sweden rules.
Russia better not cut the gas nawmeen?
>>
Samuel Denningfudging - Mon, 04 May 2020 11:38:15 EST MibTlTKK No.184904 Reply
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>>184661
Speaking as a swede; it's quite confusing. One minute our response is lauded the next condemned. Their is a fierce, and public, debate in the medical community but domestic politicians are silent* so that part of the debate is mostly taking place abroad.

*The politicians are not really in charge at the moment. Much relevant power is automatically devolved to "the people's health authority" (folkhälsomyndigheten) so our corona-response is run by
this guy
<---
Anders Tegnell>>184661
>>
Fanny Sennermirk - Mon, 04 May 2020 12:21:48 EST E2Yofruj No.184905 Reply
>>184904
Sweden's Coronavirus response has been universally condemned AFIK.
You're currently at a 27 day doubling time, same as the US atm with far better preconditions.
It's hubris imho, but time will tell.
>>
Polly Nicklewell - Mon, 04 May 2020 17:22:36 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.184913 Reply
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>>184905

Tbh if there's one place you want to try what Sweden did it's in a nation that has low population, low population density, high trust in government, and a functioning first world health care system. You know, like in Sweden.

It's complete nuts to take that risk when we know so little about the virus, but their nation's stats work in their favor and they know it.
>>
Phyllis Tillingshit - Mon, 04 May 2020 18:38:20 EST fxZPTs+O No.184915 Reply
>>184913
Also social distancing is built into their culture.

But then, Finland is practically an exact model (okay, okay, Finns, not that exact!) of Sweden and they were far more aggressive with lock downs and the suspension of the normal state of economic affairs, and have suffered far fewer deaths and abated the spread far more effectively than Sweden.

It's been wild to see right-wingers here all of a sudden pretend to give a shit about poverty now that they have to culture war their way to deflecting responsibility from catastrophe under their watch. "If we don't reopen hair salons the salon's stylists will kill themselves!" Please, spare us, you fucking mooks. This can only be considered an appropriate response when we've really exhausted our capacity to do literally anything besides return to normal, which we haven't. We could introduce a WW2-style War Production Board and plan the economy if need be. The ludicrous claim that more people will commit suicide because of unemployment than die of covid-19 that I've seen floating around hardly deserves response, just bringing it up and speaking it shows the insanity of the claim.

I haven't seen the right-wing in America so high on its own supply since the Iraq war. Why we're expected to treat conservatives with anything other than mockery and derision is beyond me. They are the biggest fucking morons on the planet.
>>
Isabella Pazzletork - Mon, 04 May 2020 20:02:24 EST O/BUJHAn No.184917 Reply
>>184915
On Iraq war was asked, why do you hate freedom?

Today we must ask, why you hate Papa Nurgle?
>>
Ebenezer Chacklesetch - Tue, 05 May 2020 16:33:55 EST MibTlTKK No.184924 Reply
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>>184905>>184907
To be fair to Tegnell he did say that the goal was to "flatten the curve" and that has been achieved. Our ICU's are comfortably below capacity and our (country-wide) R0 is believed to have fallen below 1. Secondly, as countries discuss "opening up" the measures taken here are intended to be long-term. A marathon; not a sprint (a term often used to describe it).
>>
Cyril Fuckingdale - Tue, 05 May 2020 18:49:37 EST E2Yofruj No.184926 Reply
>>184924
The difference between the "lockdown -> open up with social distancing" and the "keep open with social distancing" like Sweden is doing is that the rate of infection where the virus is kept in equilibrium (R0 of 1) is higher.
It's essentially a gamble that there won't be a vaccine in the time.

And yes it is a conscious decision to let more people die sooner in order to mitigate economic damage.
>>
Frederick Woblingbon - Wed, 06 May 2020 14:32:22 EST MibTlTKK No.184947 Reply
>>184926
He's supposed to consider the economy only insofar as it affects public health. He has however repeatedly argued that a lockdown also carries health risks and thinks over-reacting is irresponsible. This could be due to a formative experience he had treating ebola in Zaire '95. A lot of people died due to the over-reaction (normal treatments weren't performed due to the fear of infection). https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset/okanda-tragedin-som-formade-anders-tegnell/ (It's in snowkip so use a translator)

Not that I'm convinced he's doing a good job but Hanlon's law is alive and well here in sweden...
>>
Shit Bevingbidge - Fri, 08 May 2020 10:33:40 EST UeIGbi8S No.184996 Reply
>>184980
I <3 my country too but it doesn't mean I always agree with or support what it does. My internal jury is still out on the pandemic response but I do trust that the people in charge care. All our data will be publically available as it comes in as a matter of law. This will ultimately make it obvious to everyone what we did right or wrong. However be ware of learning the wrong lessons from us. English-speaking media has had a poor understanding of what is actually happening so much of both the praise and the criticism has been misguided. Certainly there is no basis to use us as an argument to "open up the economy" as if everything is fine.
>>
Sophie Trotford - Fri, 08 May 2020 21:37:16 EST 6QrNp7Wp No.185011 Reply
>>184996

>However be ware of learning the wrong lessons from us. English-speaking media has had a poor understanding of what is actually happening so much of both the praise and the criticism has been misguided.

This.

The strategy Sweden chose is for Sweden. You cannot compare it to nations with double Swedens population in a single city.
There's just something with scale and density which makes everything just compound, be it crime or virus.
>>
Fanny Clorringhug - Sun, 10 May 2020 07:10:11 EST MibTlTKK No.185052 Reply
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>>185011
Not only that but they are overlooking all the small steps at every level of society that make it possible. Hand-sanitizers are ubiquitous at most businesses, tables are wiped down after each customer, gloves are provided in grocery stores for the candy shovel. Buses in Stockholm and other Swedish cities are now free - with the driver's area cordoned off it is not possible to pay. Still they are often almost or completely empty. Anyone who even thinks they are sick is encouraged to take paid time off. ect.
>>
Nicholas Fullerville - Sun, 10 May 2020 08:20:27 EST HNjso1OQ No.185053 Reply
>>185052
>people are ignoring the small things that make our astronomical death rate possible
>>
Fanny Clorringhug - Sun, 10 May 2020 15:01:30 EST MibTlTKK No.185055 Reply
>>185053
Well in this case the authorities have admitted failure with regards to old age homes (like a month ago) and said "don't do what we did".

Secondly factions in other countries are using our "example" to justify going back to normal without a myriad of costly measures and a lack of trust in institutions. The one thing that actually has worked is that it has been below the (temporarily expanded) capacity of our healthcare system. Still we suffer shortages of masks and tests because apparently those were only needed against Soviet germs. More than one administration has stuff to answer for here. There is also a political truce in Sweden which makes it less controversial to follow advice. Once this is over though all hell will break loose.
>>
Henry Dringertad - Tue, 12 May 2020 16:52:35 EST MibTlTKK No.185072 Reply
>>185068
Dunno really; it's a consensus thing. Basically whenever things feel stable enough for normal political bickering to resume.
>>
Samuel Buzzway - Thu, 14 May 2020 19:37:52 EST TLki9LAJ No.185170 Reply
>>185072
Does the political bickering actually have to resume? Is it part of your Constitution?
>>
Martha Sashfare - Fri, 15 May 2020 08:25:35 EST MibTlTKK No.185184 Reply
>>185170
We aren't immune to human nature. Politics is basically the institutionalized disagreement as to how to run the country anyway.
>>
Barnaby Hallydock - Sat, 23 May 2020 09:42:05 EST YI2DTdX7 No.185456 Reply
>>185455
I'd be on YouRube right now if I wanted to know what's on there. If you've got a point to make, use your own words.
>>
Reuben Susslewill - Sat, 23 May 2020 19:30:35 EST LOw6RN4u No.185465 Reply
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>>185053

That's not a fair argument. Both Denmark and Norway where I live now has basically the same regime as Sweden after opening up beyond closed borders, and like Sweden our numbers are still going down the past 3-4 weeks. Such reorganization of society to work around the virus actually works.

The only difference is that we chose to lock down in order to force down the spread to an acceptable level and then let it spread to hopefully below 1:1. That's where we should criticise Sweden, not their efforts to make society slow the spread and flatten the curve. That work is effective against Covid.
>>
Jarvis Shakedale - Mon, 25 May 2020 15:04:51 EST MibTlTKK No.185534 Reply
>>185465
Yeah, there is plenty to criticize in the Swedish approach so it's nice when people can keep track of what it actually is. Clearly though you Danes have done better almost by an order of magnitude and I'm sure you know how painful that is for a Swede to admit.
>>
Edwin Febberworth - Wed, 27 May 2020 16:19:27 EST OM3uZ4Js No.185574 Reply
>>185534

Norwegian actually, but hey.

I see that Sweden get a lot of unfair and ignorant shit online for it's choice of direction. It's logical as Scandinavia has a lot of things working for us in order to weather such a storm, even though I don't agree with it for both practical and ethical reasons.

Kinda sucks we weren't in unison on this, I think our borders may be closed for a long time yet. Had all Nordic countries done the same we could've opened up and formed a travel bubble together. Now though Swedes are gonna be seen as security risks in most of Europe the next months at the least.
>>
Edwin Febberworth - Wed, 27 May 2020 16:21:59 EST OM3uZ4Js No.185575 Reply
>>185574

I mean that Sweden's direction is logical and understandable, not most of the criticism seen online.
>>
Emma Bridgebure - Wed, 27 May 2020 18:26:57 EST nA6/X/kk No.185580 Reply
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>>185575
>sweden
>logical and understandable
You must be Finnish.
>>
Priscilla Mudgeridge - Thu, 28 May 2020 09:01:57 EST MibTlTKK No.185592 Reply
>>185574
I remember discussing it at the beginning. Saying our strategy was right was essentially saying that basically everyone else had gotten it wrong which I felt stank of hubris. There has also been smugness and arrogance that we could have done without.

Our response might have been logical and understandable but (now that the results are in) quite clearly wrong. Once the situation has stabilized we are going to have a long process of working out whom exactly is to blame for what. It doesn't help that our PM is basically an over-promoted middle-manager in charge of a weak and fractious coalition government.

We blew it, even the people in charge of our response have partially admitted that.
>>
Priscilla Mudgeridge - Thu, 28 May 2020 09:21:04 EST MibTlTKK No.185593 Reply
>>185575
I should probably also add that my main gripe is not that Sweden is somehow being slandered but the wrong conclusions drawn and the wrong lessons learned. Sweden is being used as an argument that you can open up to protect the economy and still be mostly fine. This ignores 3 things: 1) This is not fine. 2) We didn't do it for the economy which is clearly in the shitter and 3) We did and do a bunch of stuff which, by ignoring, I assume others intend to follow when opening up. Clearly what we did wasn't good enough so I'd hate to think where we'd have been in deep shit had we actually done nothing.
>>
Fanny Dittinghood - Fri, 29 May 2020 18:18:39 EST OM3uZ4Js No.185626 Reply
>>185580

I wish. My point is that Sweden is weathering the spread of Covid rather "well" and has stabilized at least deaths per day despite no lockdown. They are in fact successful in flattening the curve.

>>185592

I wouldn't say you blew it straight. Right now shit looks bad, but things may also become bad for us further on if no vaccine is found. That means years of social distancing and closed borders to at-risk countries, yet alone the risk of flare-ups. At least we're on high alert now, so we should detect local clusters of spread, but we're really walking on egg-shells.

This is certainly not a race though. Both strategies has its pros and cons. The whole issue is complicated, which is why I am defending Sweden's way right now, even though I do think Sweden made a mistake in the end.
>>
Polly Clacklefetch - Sat, 30 May 2020 05:48:15 EST MibTlTKK No.185636 Reply
>>185626
There is already nigh unanimous support for a commission to investigate our handling of the crisis. The only disagreement is when. The government thinks it should be at the end of the crisis but parliament seems to be leaning towards the "how about right now?" approach.

Yeah, deaths are stable and the curve is flat. Hospitals were never overwhelmed and regular care continued almost as normal. Also our data is transparent and highly accurate. Not much else appears to work as advertised though and the medical community was pissed even before corona.

So compared to countries like Vietnam we have done quite a poor job. What is important is not so much to defend a failed strategy from unfair attacks but to properly identify mistakes so others can learn from them without repeating them.
>>
Polly Clacklefetch - Sat, 30 May 2020 18:30:50 EST MibTlTKK No.185661 Reply
>>185649
No, but I'll admit to poorly consolidated posts. My bad.
nb
>>
Jarvis Hellychene - Sun, 31 May 2020 06:41:15 EST YI2DTdX7 No.185674 Reply
>>185664
Duhhhh hngggg I didn't get it either hnnnggggg these guys sound so retarded hnnnggggggggggggg
>>
Jarvis Fivingdud - Thu, 04 Jun 2020 06:58:20 EST 95fSyme/ No.185774 Reply
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>>185636
>Yeah, deaths are stable and the curve is flat.
You're absolutely A D O R A B L E. Look, cutie, we're on the same internet, we have the same tools, we can all see when you lie.
>>
Esther Wackleforth - Thu, 04 Jun 2020 07:33:20 EST sJgRkdGl No.185775 Reply
>>185774
Stable =/= low.

FYI: Tegnell is now publicly admitting failure.
>>
Alice Clengermudging - Thu, 04 Jun 2020 07:48:46 EST OjupdLjZ No.185776 Reply
>>185775
Okay so when you said stable, you meant increasing at a stable rate. 🙃
>>
Graham Sushfuck - Thu, 04 Jun 2020 09:29:15 EST kGFhoZBS No.185777 Reply
>>185776
Yep, it's linear, not exponential. Much like the joke "The good news is that the patient's condition is stable. The bad news is that the patient is dead".
>>
Edwin Socklecocke - Fri, 05 Jun 2020 18:06:19 EST OM3uZ4Js No.185807 Reply
>>185774

The curve there is flattening, you just don't understand mathematics. It means it's not rising exponentially, it's not even linear. They have crazy high deaths compared to neighboors, but compared to other people with the same spread they are doing "well".

They are performing triage though to ensure ICU capacity can take it. Not everyone that can be saved will be saved in Sweden right now, and it's been that way for some time.
>>
Phyllis Derrydodge - Sat, 06 Jun 2020 06:00:45 EST YKzHhcXE No.185812 Reply
>>185068
ten or so years maybe?. My grandmother was born a couple decades after the spanish flu. No one gave a shit about it.
>>
James Pubberdetch - Sat, 06 Jun 2020 18:37:36 EST OM3uZ4Js No.185816 Reply
>>185811

Nah, not really. They are adviced to not travel 1-2 hours from their homes right now.

They actually have the harshest corona policies in Scandinavia atm.
>>
Jack Dillyford - Sun, 07 Jun 2020 12:26:33 EST Xo18XZpc No.185828 Reply
>>185807
Triage has not been instituted and never was. If we are failing in that regard it is a deeper problem.

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