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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)
Subxone interactions Ignore Report Reply
Alice Pittwell - Thu, 16 May 2019 11:32:46 EST ID:YGROjekb No.605951
File: 1558020766396.jpg -(40309B / 39.36KB, 500x352) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 40309
Kratom and Suboxone? Yes or no? Does it cause withdrawal? its my understanding that it has a different method of action that does not interfere with the naloxone, is this true???
>>
Alice Pittwell - Thu, 16 May 2019 11:56:25 EST ID:YGROjekb No.605952 Ignore Report Reply
also does buspar potentiate opiates?
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David Fibberforth - Thu, 16 May 2019 16:34:16 EST ID:utnW7eFm No.605954 Ignore Report Reply
>>605952
What's buspar? Don't you have name of active substance written on the box of every medicine?
>>
Simon Mevingridge - Thu, 16 May 2019 22:48:54 EST ID:ESCXnZgl No.605971 Ignore Report Reply
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>>605951
>Kratom
No. Its a synthetic opioid found in naturally occurring trees. Its "synthetic" because it in no way is related to the structure of morphine/opium alkaloids, but it is natural if that matters to you.
The tldr is that bupe has a super high binding affinity (sticky to brain) and will out stick mytrigaine. It can cause withdrawal or precipitated WDs if you suddenly rip out all the kratom with bupe, just like any other opi. It might actually *not* occur if the bupe is stronger than kratom, but i'm not sure it is. I'm not sure anyone really knows what the relative difference is.

If you go straight kratom for a week or two, and then rapidly take bupe, let us know for SCIENCE

>different method of action that does not interfere with the naloxone
Naloxone doesn't cause withdrawal and isn't active in sublngual or buccal admin of suboxone. Yet people still get precipitated WDs. That's because BUPE causes them. See above, it will rip off whatever opi is on your brain, and replace it. If the bupe is weaker than whatever oxy, morph, dope is still in your brain, you will get precipitated WDs. Withdrawal occurs when the opioid receptors are no longer activated by drugs at their "normal" level. That happens usually by not doing more drugs, or doing a weaker opi that has a higher binding affinity.

Binding affinity
tramadol < Regular opis (morph, oxy, etc) << methadone < narcan < fent <<< bupe

Activation of opioid receptors (how effective they are at getting you high)
narcan <<< tramadol < bupe < regular opis << methadone << fent

If you notice some of those are "strong" and some like narcan are anti-opis (agonists, anti-agonists). Narcan, like bupe, rips opis off brain. Narcan wont get you high, but it will displace heroin, and that's why it saves your life, but also puts you into hella sick.

tldr
stop being stupid, google, and don't believe morons on the street
>>
Alice Hoppershit - Fri, 17 May 2019 05:35:45 EST ID:WPH+dayt No.605983 Ignore Report Reply
>>605971
You need to look up what synthetic means. By definition it's not synthetic if it's naturally occuring. It's nit an opiate as it's not from the opium poppy, I think that's what you meant.
Sorey to nitpick, the rest of your post is bang on, which is a nice change esp on the bupe front. I've managed to take enough bupe that I didn't get PWD even though I was on heaps of PST when I took it, few minutes of discomfort at worst. Because of that is think that unless you were taking a fuck-ton of kratom you'd be fine.
>>
hsn - Fri, 17 May 2019 10:27:31 EST ID:cA+802PK No.605990 Ignore Report Reply
>>605971
That was honestly the most retarded explanation of synthetic I've ever read. In the same sentence you said it's synthetic but occurs naturally in trees lmao.

You basically made an entire post for no reason because you also have no idea about sub and kratom interaction.
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hsn - Fri, 17 May 2019 10:28:44 EST ID:cA+802PK No.605991 Ignore Report Reply
>>605971
and I'm not even going to get into the binding affinity flowchart you made as that's also completely wrong. I'll let someone else rip you a new butt for that one since I'm on a tablet. NB
>>
Nigel Semmerbanks - Fri, 17 May 2019 20:25:33 EST ID:ESCXnZgl No.606020 Ignore Report Reply
>>605983
>>605990
Natural, synthetic, and semi synthetic refer to the structure of the drug and how it's related to the drugs found in opium.
I'll wait for your explanation of oxycodone, a semi synthetic opioid not found in nature, but also not fully synthetic.


>>605991
>>605991
You're right the fent and narcan may have switched spots, but they're pretty close. Again, I'm waiting for your explanation broseph.
>>
hsn - Fri, 17 May 2019 21:10:07 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606021 Ignore Report Reply
>>606020
that nomenclature is retarded and is reguarly mixed up. oxycodone is semisynthetic since it is derived from naturally occuring opioids like hydrocodone or heroin. it is not fully synthetic lke you said, you are wrong. a better example of that would be fent or tramadol.

you for real need to look up the meanings of what actually defines opioids as synthetic, semi-synthetic, or natural occuring. you are mad confused dude.

as far as your flowchart goes I'm not going to look up each ones binding affinity nor will I go off the top of my head. I really dont feel like doing so. the fact you have a seperate flowchart that says 'activation of opioid receptors' further proves my point you dont really know what you are talking about.

please explain to me what activation of the opioid receptors refers to? is this an analgesia comparison? you put tramadol behind bupe (a partial agonist) in this chart. how does that make any sense? and why on earth is narcan on that chart? once again, I have no idea what the hell you are referring to when you say 'activation of opioid receptors' and would love for you to elaborate on that.
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Fuck Benningnedge - Fri, 17 May 2019 21:41:57 EST ID:IQRwaK87 No.606022 Ignore Report Reply
>>606021

He's OFF THEM ZOINKYS
>>
hsn - Fri, 17 May 2019 22:11:39 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606023 Ignore Report Reply
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>>606022
watch out for them semi synthetic opiods jimboo
>>
David Sagglenatch - Sat, 18 May 2019 05:43:38 EST ID:3xcnMjqL No.606034 Ignore Report Reply
>>606020
No, synthetic refers to whether or not a drug is "synthesised". Crazy, right?
>>
Hamilton Chobberspear - Sat, 18 May 2019 07:00:39 EST ID:8N957kdV No.606038 Ignore Report Reply
Guys does it really matter trying to outsmart each other and nitpick small details? Does this REALLY help OP with their original question?? I get we all like to have the most accurate information, but fuck - sometimes it doesn't hurt to take a step back for a second and just keep things as simple as possible. I was following this out of interest to the original question, but I couldn't care less about how each person wants to define the meaning of 'synthetic' - its just not relevant arguing that here..
>>
hsn - Sat, 18 May 2019 07:15:28 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606040 Ignore Report Reply
>>606038

tell that to the retard >>605971 who decided to derail the thread with his novel of misinformation. its one thing to nitpick but this guy is legit spreading completely false and made up bullshit. I will never let that slide because theres the potential for that information to harm or even kill someone. misinformation is a very slipper slope. its not about being right its about everyone not being wrong.
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James Snodson - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:26:33 EST ID:ubO74OAN No.606098 Ignore Report Reply
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OXYCODONE IS "" SEMI SYNTHETIC "" BECAUSE IT OCCURS NATURALLY IN POPPIES AND THE OXYCODONE WE KNO FROM DEM ROXIS IS SYNTHESIZED FROM NATURAL FARM FRESH THEBAINE.
THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF OPI.

>Binding affinity list
CANT WONT TOUCH THAT
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:51:58 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606099 Ignore Report Reply
>>606098
Lol fucking owned that libtard with FACTS and LOGIC. you tell him. Smh w/e more oxycodone for me from this pst. Like no wonder these seeds taste like Perc 30s I mean like wtf is a thebaine anyways probably just making stuff up xD
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:56:25 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606100 Ignore Report Reply
>>606098
Btw send me some of this naturally occuring oxycodone B sounds tight and not totally made up. Maybe pick some Vicodin from the Vicodin bush while you're at it too homie good looks đź‘Ť
>>
Graham Hedgefeck - Sun, 19 May 2019 04:10:46 EST ID:utnW7eFm No.606101 Ignore Report Reply
>>606100
According to wikipedia oxy occurs naturally in some flowers in Poland. No kidding.
>>
Fuck Bommerford - Sun, 19 May 2019 05:32:09 EST ID:8N957kdV No.606103 Ignore Report Reply
>>606100
Regardless of this bullshit of synthetic or not, the bit about binding affinity did have relevance TO THE POST. Something you guys have totally lost focus on sadly. If someone is on bupe, then the relevant question is does Kratom have a higher binding affinity to opiate receptors than bupe? Or does it use a different mechanism of action? You've got all hung up on this order of strength based on whether the substance is synthetic, semi-synthetic etc... but the fact is, the post you are focused on ripping to shreds does actually hold water in what its saying RELATED TO THE OP's QUESTION. Fuck guys, I'm actually getting real pissed off with the whole 'I'm smarter than you' attitude - if you cant answer the question, just shut up. Like I said before, what you keep arguing about has no relevance to this thread! Go start a new thread if you want to discuss opiate synthesis and the definition of that...
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 08:17:26 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606106 Ignore Report Reply
>>606101
According to wikipedia..right. Why did you not post a link? Oh yeah right you're pulling info from your within your asshole like everyone else is. Stop spreading false info or include a link along with your outrageous claims. Nb
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 08:19:07 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606107 Ignore Report Reply
>>606103
His questions been answered and no I won't stop since people like to make up facts from the top of their head here now.
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Fuck Bommerford - Sun, 19 May 2019 09:07:31 EST ID:8N957kdV No.606111 Ignore Report Reply
>>606107
Alright whatever- to be honest it's really not a big deal, this 'false information' is harmless in this instance. I'm strangely fascinated by why you're flipping your lid on tiny details - that's really odd man. You should learn to control the anger more. Pick your battles and all that... I'm going to stick up for the guy who posted all that info that kicked off your anger - I personally found it useful. Maybe I spotted a bit that didn't look quite right, but hey - the general context of the post was good so I can live with it. You on the other hand either have actual autism, in which case - that's cool but maybe give us a heads up so we know you will over analise things to shit, or on the flip side - maybe you are just a know it all twat that loves to sound like a tough guy online by insulting other people's posts by finding the smallest thing wrong with them. Either way, you played this wrong, and I really dont value anything you now say here
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 09:28:22 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606112 Ignore Report Reply
>>606111
Yeah there you go, blindly take his info as truth. Good goyim. Did you know that you can find heroin in certain species of ocelots?

But yeah who cares about tiny details right, like making up flowcharts based on your feelings about a drug and getting nomenclature for where drugs are derived from completely wrong. And then the guy telling me oxycodone is found naturally.

What is so confusing to you about not letting misinformation spread? But who gives a shit because I'm so angry that the other guy must be right. I honestly don't care what you want to believe as I'm still another random on the internet but if you think I'll stay silent then you're dead wrong. Go look it up for yourself if you re smart enough instead of blindly accepting info from strangers as fact like the overglorified bonobo you come off as.
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 09:36:08 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606114 Ignore Report Reply
>>606111
And that last ssentence. Oh man I'm giggling like a school girl. You really just admitted to basing what you perceive as factual based on ur lil feelings. Don't worry man daddy will take you go karting next year like he said, he's only a few years late. So its ok lil man you can't control what mental complex you were graciously given from your lackluster childhood. Maybe you'll outgrow it just like your body has outgrown your brain. Lol nb, gg.
>>
Fuck Bommerford - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:19:52 EST ID:8N957kdV No.606118 Ignore Report Reply
>>606114
You just crack on mate. I have no problems to 'hide' - I just dont see why you're such an angry fuck. I dont need to take these little bits of misinformation as fact, because I'm smart enough to work it out for myself, and have the mental capacity to not bully others in the process. Just back off - so what if they say something that isn't quite right on the science? None of us here are chemists - you take things with a pinch of salt and move on. But this is going nowhere clearly- you want to attack people on the details and I'm not going to waste and more time trying to stop you. It's just a shame people like you take over these threads with their rage on completely irrelevant stuff that the rest of us dont care about. I wish you all the best, I seriously do - I hope you learn to chill more than anything. You'll die of a heart attack at this rate!!
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:28:52 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606119 Ignore Report Reply
>>606118
>You on the other hand either have actual autism, in which case - that's cool but maybe give us a heads up so we know you will over analise things to shit, or on the flip side - maybe you are just a know it all twat that loves to sound like a tough guy online by insulting other people's posts by finding the smallest thing wrong with them.

>I wish you all the best, I seriously do - I hope you learn to chill more than anything. You'll die of a heart attack at this rate!!

Don't dish it if you can't take it dawg, nobodies mad here. If you don't need the information why even comment?

> Just back off - so what if they say something that isn't quite right on the science?
Vaccines cause autism, Jews control everything, Bush did 9/11. Slippery slope etc. I hope you're trolling if you can't see the implications of what you just said. You really think spreading false info is nbd because it's drug related? Fine, then ignore my post next time. But I call out bullshit if I see it and nothing you say will stop that.

If you want to circle jerk around false info then head on over to the opiate subleddit where that kind of mentality is celebrated.
>>
Nicholas Cablinglig - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:34:10 EST ID:476z/lkM No.606120 Ignore Report Reply
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Not to throw in more fire but I once went deep looking into research papers talking about papaver setigerum to see if the giant patch around my house was worth something, and I remember quite vividly of one paper that claimed that there could be naturally ocurring traces of oxycodone or oxymorphone in poppy plants, I cant find that paper for shit tho.
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:38:28 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606121 Ignore Report Reply
>>606120
I m going to shid my pants

>Oxymorphone is commercially produced from thebaine, which is a minor constituent of the opium poppy (Papaver somniferum) but thebaine is found in greater abundance (3%) in the roots of the oriental poppy (Papaver orientale).[2][21] German patents from the mid-1930s indicate that oxymorphone as well as hydromorphone, hydrocodone, oxycodone, and acetylmorphone can be prepared—without the need for hydrogen gas—from solutions of codeine, morphine, and dionine by refluxing an acidic aqueous solution, or the precursor drug dissolved in ethanol, in the presence of certain metals, namely palladium and platinum in fine powder or colloidal form or platinum black.
>>
Fuck Bommerford - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:40:12 EST ID:8N957kdV No.606122 Ignore Report Reply
>>606119
Like I said, this is going nowhere. I just dont think this level of anger is normal. I've heard of opi rage, maybe you are an example - I dunno. Maybe you dont even use? I made that assumption based on you being here, but hey maybe I shouldn't? Anyways you really do need to chill regardless... right I'm out - this thread has defo gone to shit now - I only wanted it to stay on topic but I give up! You win, your always right, everyone else is inferior to you, you are our God, our hero! What would we do without 'Super Corrector'?? Haha sorry I cant help taking the piss here - I'm not even trolling, I legit came here for info and peoples experiences, but I found you - we clearly ain't gonna see eye to eye, but fuck it - I'm gone as of now. Bye
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:51:07 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606123 Ignore Report Reply
>>606122
I won! Stinky dick ass Nigga just got 2nd place !

I'm honestly not mad though and I'm currently sober. My goal isn't to be a nitpick nazi it's to call out someone making things up or just rambling about a topic they don't have a clue in. Take it as you will though. Only reason I returned fire was because you started it with the autism/twat thing but that doesn't make me right ofc. I just enjoy returning the favor as it's an instinct at this point from how I grew up so I'll be damned if I miss an opportunity to return the shit talking at the risk of losing credibility.

Hope we can make out later or whatever else you're supposed to do after a disagreement.
>>
Nicholas Cablinglig - Sun, 19 May 2019 10:59:28 EST ID:476z/lkM No.606124 Ignore Report Reply
>>606122 you gotta admit >>605971 was quite retarded
>>
Martin Greencocke - Sun, 19 May 2019 12:36:13 EST ID:ESCXnZgl No.606128 Ignore Report Reply
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I honestly can't believe you retards have been out nitpicking this to death all weekend instead of doing something productive or interesting.
Its cold and raining here now. So let me butt fuck >>606021 you real quick. I went and verified this with my gf, who is a practicing pharmacist and graduated from a good school recently enough to still have her books around.

Natural, semi-sythetic, and synthetic refer to the structure like I said. Every single opioid you retards use, except for maybe PST, are synthesized in a lab, or partially synthesized, because demand exceeds natural opium production. Every single one, regardless of its structure. They're all "synthetic" using the nomenclature of your mom's essential oil handbook, which we all know is the end all be all of scientific literature.

For the lesser mere mortals, synthetic means how the molecule's structure morphine, which is the main active ingredient in opium, inb4codeine, it's metabolized into morphine. You can think its retarded, but the people who are developing drugs, manufacturing them legally, etc, don't care about how natural it is, and its irrelevant to their work.

Since this literal faggot asked, here's two citations >>606106
The first is from:
Wilson and Gisvold's Textbook of Organic Medicinal and Pharmaceutical Chemistry 12th ed. by John M Beale, Jr and John H. Block ISBN: 978-0-7817-7929-6
(page 783)
>>
Martin Greencocke - Sun, 19 May 2019 12:40:07 EST ID:ESCXnZgl No.606129 Ignore Report Reply
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>>606128
Karch's Pathology of Drug Abuse 4th ed. by Steven B Karch, MD, FFFLM (page 369)

Now take some your All Natural© Not-Synthetic™ Essentially Oils® And apply to your ass chapped butthurt burn
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 13:08:58 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606130 Ignore Report Reply
>>606128
you stupid fuck we're literally in agreement, I never argued that.

>No. Its a synthetic opioid found in naturally occurring trees. Its "synthetic" because it in no way is related to the structure of morphine/opium alkaloids, but it is natural if that matters to you.

is what I was nitpicking about. follow the thread, it aint that hard.

>oxycodone is semisynthetic since it is derived from naturally occuring opioids like hydrocodone or heroin. it is not fully synthetic lke you said, you are wrong. a better example of that would be fent or tramadol.

is a quote directly from my post.

> Every single one, regardless of its structure. They're all "synthetic" using the nomenclature of your mom's essential oil handbook, which we all know is the end all be all of scientific literature.
oh really? so thebaine isnt used to synthesize most semi-synthetic opioids? ok mr buddy friend-o lets see what precursor you think they start with that isnt thebaine, I'll be waiting.
you are so far up your own ass its incredible. you went off on a tangent to prove me wrong when I was literally saying the same thing. then you go to say that it exceeds natural opium production loool. wat. did madagascar recently sink to the bottom of the ocean? the only opioids that are fully synthetic are things like piperidine based opi's, tramadol, and basically anything that starts out as a precursor that is not sourced from the poppy plant. simple as that. oxycodone is a thebaine derivative in which thebaine is a naturally occuring alkaloid within the poppy plant making oxycodone semi-synthetic which I have been saying the entire god damned time.

>They're all "synthetic" using the nomenclature of your mom's essential oil handbook, which we all know is the end all be all of scientific literature.
see above, where the hell are you pulling this info from if you arent misreading my posts?

once again, quoted directly from my post,
>oxycodone is semisynthetic since it is derived from naturally occuring opioids like hydrocodone or heroin. it is not fully synthetic lke you said, you are wrong. a better example of that would be fent or tramadol.
is this not exactly what you are saying? what the fuck lol.


>Since this literal faggot asked, here's two citations
u lil bitch ass ngiga I wasnt asking you for citation I was asking for the guy claiming oxycodone is found inside the poppy plant for one. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you did it now, I SHIDDED my FRIGGIN PANTS. seriously though, reread my posts you mongloid, everything I said is in-line with your posts. the other dude was claiming oxycodone was synethetic when its semi-synthetic derived from thebaine.
>>
Nicholas Cablinglig - Sun, 19 May 2019 13:22:34 EST ID:476z/lkM No.606133 Ignore Report Reply
>>606128

For oxycodone you need initial starting material that comes from the poppy plant, you cant just create oxycodone out of thin air, some precursor drug is needed, hence its semi synthethic
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 13:34:43 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606134 Ignore Report Reply
>>606133
STOP GRABBING FAKE N6EWS FROM YOUR MOMS ESSENTIAL OILS HAN66BUSH IS A JEWDBOOK BRO UR FUCKING WRONG OXYCO6DONE IS A SYNTHETIC DRUG DERIVED DIRECTLY FROM T6HE TEARS OF LIBERALS, THE66BAINE IS A FA66LSE FLAG PSYOP OPERATIO6N STARTED BY THE MK6ULTRA PROJECT IN 1972
>>
Martin Greencocke - Sun, 19 May 2019 13:58:24 EST ID:ESCXnZgl No.606137 Ignore Report Reply
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>>606130
Naturally occuring opi don't meet demand, so supply takes a non-narcotic alkaloid found as a by-product in the poppy plant, synthesizes into narcotic to meet demand.
>loluretard
K


>>606133
Its easier to start with a similar structure and modify rather than build from scratch


>>606134
>>
hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 14:14:14 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606140 Ignore Report Reply
>>606137
>Naturally occuring opi don't meet demand, so supply takes a non-narcotic alkaloid found as a by-product in the poppy plant, synthesizes into narcotic to meet demand.
dude what, thebaine is used to create oxycodone and other drugs. thats what we are saying. where are you getting lost on this? if you start with thebaine, an alkaloid in the poppy plant, then synthetize is into oxycodone, this makes it semi-synthetic. if you start with a non-poppy plant sourced precursor such as all of the piperidines, this makes it synthetic. i.e. fentanyl. you are regurgitating what I've been saying the entire time lol why are you chasing your tail?

your previous post completely contradicts this current post and it sounds like you are currently back pedaling because you realized your mistake, which is fine, just stop trying to chase your tail about this. what you just said is exactly what we have been saying the entire time and your other post has conflicting info than within this one.

and I was being satirical if my post wasnt obvious enough, calm down.

and your reply to the other dude is again, repeating what he said. you were implying they started from scratch before when you said that the demand cant keep up with opium supply which is completely false. they start with thebaine which is then synthed to most of the common opi's we use. I dont know why you are doubling down and now changing your sentiments to better fit what again, me and others have been saying the entire time lol. its not a big deal, its a learning experience. so what, it took me years and years to learn this shit.
>>
Esther Dartgold - Sun, 19 May 2019 15:24:37 EST ID:FSIIOS20 No.606143 Ignore Report Reply
>>606128
Chill the fuck out, I just brought up some shit wikipedia says. I'm not saying it's true. Go jack off or something, you raging cunt.
>>
press - Sun, 19 May 2019 15:40:39 EST ID:T+rng7Dj No.606144 Ignore Report Reply
>>606034
snthetic is a very arbitrary term in chemistry, as every molecule is in fact synthesized. the term is loosely used to mean anthropogenic but who gives a fuck, not like theres a direct inherint consequence to something being man made versus something natural. in fact the term natural is even more retarded, when used to distinguish between anthorpogenic substances and non anthropogenic substances it contains the arrogant and unfounded implication that humans themself arent natural but rather something is above nature and alien to shit like trees or shrimps

opioid and opiate as terms are used to differentiate between non morphinan containing or rather non poppy derived drugs from those based on opium. yet again that doesnt really have that many valueable implications


>>606128
the morphinan structure is quite "hard to produce" starting from scratch, and tbh why bother if theres a whole genera producing morphinans from dirt, piss and sun. im not really up to date with the statistics concerning production and demand of opium derived drugs(save for dxm ofc as its more or less enatniomeric to the regular structure i think ill read up on what they actually do with the levo that is produced as a side product, seems like a waste ast first glance to not produce something with it), but if i recall correctly morphine is mostly used to produce codeine via methylation - which seems the most retarded bullshit ever, but obviously i have different values than people who have bad coughs

i enjoy the drama ITT as it takes my mind of less pleasant thoughts, and i reckon most people ITT argue for the sake of arguing, but we're fighting over semantics or rather nomenclature. obviously im the last person that can reasonably call for civil discourse
that book has a nice markup but i wonder why the figure is rightflush and even imperfect rightflush and i would have liked to have the molecules arranged in some particular order. i think oxycodone shouldve been in the last row, second column and morphinan shouldve been in a top left cell seperated from the others as its the basic structure on which theyre all based. ive got serious problems, whenever i think about markup and typography theres a voice in the back of my head calling me a huge faggot. im so fucking happy i dont have to publish anything in journals. company standards for presentation and documentation are already bothersome enough
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 18:08:25 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606151 Ignore Report Reply
>>606150
dude wtf we're supposed to be mad in this thread you better go uncalm yourself
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 18:09:13 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606152 Ignore Report Reply
>>606151
well fuck, that was meant for press. fucking kirt and his janky reply set up that I still havent gotten used to. nb
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Nicholas Cablinglig - Sun, 19 May 2019 18:20:07 EST ID:476z/lkM No.606153 Ignore Report Reply
>>606144

Can you elaborate on why they are hard to create entirely in a lab tho
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 19:06:10 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606155 Ignore Report Reply
>>606153
it makes zero financial sense to do it. you're talking about a 30+ step process vs 5-15 step process starting from something that already has the foundation layed.

think of it as being an investor and you want to diversify your portfolio further. so you decide hey, I want to get a nice multi-unit building for myself. now you can build the entire complex from scratch or you can rennovate one down the road for much cheaper due to the material and land cost (this being the precursors and chemicals needed to synth opi's from scratch). lets say you decide to build it frm the ground up. you need permits and construction machines and inspectors and engineers to come out and survey and you start to realize this is going to cost much more than planned and take much longer had you just rennovated an existing building. time being the most important factor here.

so it isnt impossible, it just makes zero financial sense for a lab to do this as it will a) cost much more and require much more equipment and materials
b) take a lot more time
and c) the yield per time spent ratio is going to be completely shit had you just started with a foundation closer to the drug you wanted. its like if a synth from scratch was 30 steps long for example, a synth coming from thebaine (that has the skeleton of what you want) is like skipping to step 15 off the bat. and not only this, step 15 that starts with thebaine is also dirt cheap as its comes from poppy plants in massive fields subsidized by governments usually.

no reason to reinvent the wheel, same reason car manufactures borrow each others parts now and share it with each other while changing up the body panels as it just makes much more sense to start from a halfway point than from the beginning.

unless you are trying to discover new drugs or something. which is one of the reasons why research and development for pharmaceuticals is extremely costly.
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 19:11:11 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606156 Ignore Report Reply
>>606153
oh fuck im such an asshole sorry dude, I just realized you were referring to morphinians. ignore my post, you already know what I posted.

but this link explains what you are asking for:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_synthesis_of_morphine_and_related_alkaloids
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hsn - Sun, 19 May 2019 19:12:17 EST ID:cA+802PK No.606157 Ignore Report Reply
>>606156
>The structure of morphine is not particularly complex, however the electrostatic polarization of adjacent bonded atoms does not alternate uniformly throughout the structure. This "dissonant connectivity" makes bond formation more difficult and therefore significantly complicates any synthetic strategy that is applied to this family of molecules.[2]

triple post, crucify me pls. nb
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Jarvis Lighthall - Mon, 20 May 2019 08:38:43 EST ID:476z/lkM No.606187 Ignore Report Reply
>>606157

Nice I nodded out after reading it, that clears it out really, basically you can do morphine from scratch but as you said its not economically viable in the slightest (except for hydrocodone apparently) and the most immediate precursor for the duty would be reticuline, shame I cant do chemistry for shit, converting naloxone into oxymorphone would be a dream come true lol, interesting read regardless nb


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