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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

Am I just deluding myself or is the dream attainable for some?

- Fri, 23 Aug 2019 01:04:49 EST NjmKkIbD No.609759
File: 1566536689759.jpg -(62881B / 61.41KB, 550x407) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Am I just deluding myself or is the dream attainable for some?
Sup /opi/, I'd like y'all degenerate junkies' advice on something. To give a bit of background, I was an IV H addict for about 7 years, and then ended up switching to methadone and doing a slow taper over the course of ~3 years while I severed all my drug connections, got my shit together, and finally got 100% clean back in May. Since then I've been drinking occasionally, and have been dabbling with other shit, but with no problems keeping my use in check. Now I just recently found out my connect for other shit also sells H, so (me being me and enjoying tempting fate) decided to purchase a gram of tar. I've been smoking a little of it on the weekend for the past few weeks but my mind is stressing me out with thoughts of "oh, well I just fucked up years of sobriety from opiates, I'm not gonna be able to handle it and this'll turn into a downward spiral that will ruin my life once again", but at the same time I know I'll never use a needle again and I *know* I'll never use two days in a row again to avoid physical W/Ds. So, is this just my meaningless OCD kicking into gear, or is occasional (weekly or less frequent) use of heroin doable after being an addict for so long? Is it inevitable that my frequency of use will ramp up again, or have any of you successfully set rules that you *know* you can't break in order to live a happy life?
Molly Blirringneck - Fri, 23 Aug 2019 02:51:08 EST LZ8viA85 No.609760 Reply
This is not OCD, this is a part of you being honest about your use.
I've known a lot of addicts (me included) here and in real life and I know of 20+(40+ if you count people on here) people who have said exactly what you've said (never shooting again, never getting physically dependent, fucking ect.). Not a single one was successful at staying "clean".
The closest was some guy on here, and putting aside whether they were actually honest about their pseudo-sobriety, they finally admitted to falling back into daily use maybe 1-1.5 years in. That's the record, for people I've seen; the average is something closer to 2 months I'd guess.
I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that for an overwhelming percentage of addicts, you will be right back where you started in no time at all. The fact that you set your bar so freaking low (only against using two days in a row) really does not bode well either.

>I *know* I'll never use two days in a row again
you totally will though. You will do it once thinking "I really need this/I had a really rough day/After what happened I deserve this" or something along those lines, and "it's only once/it's a special occasion/I'll never do it again, it'll be fine", and it will be fine. which is why the next time you do it is a little easier. hey, it was only one or two times this month, that isn't terrible! which turns into once a week, which turns into using 4 days out of a week (but it's OK, I take every other day off so I'm totally not addicted), blah blah blah. This is just an example, maybe it would take you longer, maybe you'd skip half these steps, it all ends in the same place.

come on dude, when you first started using did you say "whelp, guess I'm going to get addicted to drugs now!" or did you say "I may use every now and then but I'll never be addicted, I'm not that stupid".
Most people get into this thinking they're not like all those junkies; they've got self control and they know better and they'll never get addicted and it's not like they're gonna use every day. but hey guess what, they do.
You know better. You quit once, are you so arrogant to assume that that was it, that now you're so fundamentally different and responsible that you can start doing heroin again without consequences, no big deal?
Kekistan69 - Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:32:57 EST JEt2x1Cb No.609764 Reply
This is the same thing every addict tells themselves. Not just opiates but other drugs and alcohol too. Once you've already been in a serious addiction it is almost impossible to use only occasionally afterwards. I've done this myself numerous times and within a few months I always ended up fully addicted again.

It is highly unlikely that you are somehow different from all the other former addicts who relapsed. Eventually, everyone starts going over the limits they set for themselves and rationalizing their decisions until they're back to daily use.
Thants !IZgeXR9w82 - Fri, 23 Aug 2019 13:14:51 EST OgX3IMCX No.609769 Reply
>"Oh well I've just fucked up years of sobriety from opiates"

I'd say that's dangerous pessimism that may help lead you back to full blown addiction. Do your 7 year struggle some justice and give it some meaning by looking it as something that taught you how to obtain the skills to get out of the degenerating cycle of addiction. Think of how much healthier you are now that you managed to get away from IV use for 3 years. Imagine where you'd be had you never done that and how fucked your life might be if you hadn't. If you were ever an IV addict any amount of clean time is a testament to personal strength imo.
Hillbilly Heroin !JhIhjqOq5k - Fri, 23 Aug 2019 19:31:35 EST 7Y8izlLY No.609779 Reply
Greenwell got out and is doing fine AFAIK. I don't know if that is the one person you were talking about or not.
DTMO - Fri, 23 Aug 2019 21:11:00 EST iwPQzXLg No.609780 Reply
>Is it inevitable that my frequency of use will ramp up again?

It's very far from inevitable. However, it's also very easy to think that you are the exception to the rule, and the general rule is that frequency and dose tend to increase

I am basically clean these days and use opioids every 6 months or so. That was 5 years using, a couple on subs, a year or 2 clean, a couple of months of using more than I'd like without dependence then on to the current system.

I have increased my use of other drugs a lot though.
Samuel Murddock - Sat, 24 Aug 2019 23:45:53 EST ZZZzwdbx No.609801 Reply
Toss it out now and don't look back. Once an addict, always an addict. You can delude yourself into thinking that you won't ever get addicted again but I can guarantee that even you know deep down that it's a lie. You haven't thrown away your 7 years of clean time but you definitely will if you continue to use any longer. At the end of the day, it's your life so do what you want but I'm just speaking from experience here. There is a 99.999% chance you will descend right back to where you were 7 years ago if you don't stop now. Occasional heroin use (regardless of ROA) is a paradox, a mere fantasy especially if you've been addicted/dependent in the past.
Samuel Murddock - Sat, 24 Aug 2019 23:50:45 EST ZZZzwdbx No.609802 Reply
This is 1000% accurate, I didn't see it until after I posted my reply. Excellent post.
dr. m - Mon, 26 Aug 2019 08:34:10 EST LOk04uH3 No.609828 Reply

Yeah this, honestly unless we're talking a maximum use of twice a month or less, preferably even just once a month or less, you pretty much stand zero chance of not become either physically dependent or extremely mentally addicted again within 2-5 years. If you could so once a month and not a single time more for any reason, and trust yourself to complete flush 100% of your stash the moment you ever break that rule, you're all but guaranteed to head back to near daily use.

And if using only once a month ends up just being a huge tease for you where you end up thinking about it 10-20x longer in terms of total hours during that month wait vs. The actual duration of your single high, then your mental addiction is already proven too high for such occasional use to be "worth it."
David Mucklekodge - Tue, 27 Aug 2019 08:17:34 EST ESCXnZgl No.609856 Reply
Imma have to completely and totally disagree that addicts never ever never recover. That is the 12 step, you're a helpless fuck, junky piece of shit addict forever and ever. I believe its counter to the research on alcoholism.

I also do agree with other posters that you in particular are not ready.

But yeah, people that undergo therapy, and treat underlying conditions, and have a good chunk of time sober, get their lives on track, and most importantly reestablish strong social connections to other people may be able to drink socially again.
That's what I did, and Its been years now off the opi. I was doing a 24 hour coke binge 1 time per year around by bday in october. I skipped it last year to travel with the cash instead last year. I do drink sometimes but lol booze sucks. My mom go sober within the same month as me coincidentally. She started drinking when I was 15 and it didn't get out of control til I was in school and moved out, so no something I saw or was part of. She's gone the 12 step bunny hole and can't be around booze or have even a single drink/smoke or she WILL RELAPSE.

But the black and white mentality of addiction being either on or abstinence is bullshit. It really does largely depend on how much the cause of addition has been treated. And not with
Nigel Harringfoot - Tue, 27 Aug 2019 16:05:57 EST 6Bp/fQkL No.609864 Reply
I went to treatment 7 years ago after being all day every day addicted to Oxy. Since I stopped the all day every day habit, I've been able to chip Oxys, methadone, and tried H finally and chipped that as well. I haven't had H in over a year now though.

I wish I could transfer my own self awareness to y'all, but I finally just stopped hating myself, relearned all the good qualities about myself, and have stuck to being incredibly self responsible and self reliant. And I can't be self reliant if I'm all strung out on dope. That self reliance has led to despising people who offer me help, as I almost look at it as them enabling me and trying to bring me back down, because I've come so far from where I was and am doing so much better than my peers despite the fact that I had to overcome addiction.

I am the exception, not the rule.
Molly Smalllock - Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:29:10 EST cbXJ46oj No.609926 Reply
no one, well at least not me, is saying addicts never recover. I am saying addicts don't recover by continuing to use, because they fucking don't. and yeah I think 12 steps is pretty dumb but it works for some people. there are definitely people who can't handle having one beer and pretending like there aren't is just as much of a "black and white" mentality you're claiming to decry. you are saying it's like shades of gray but statistically, it's more like a black wall with two or three drops of white sprinkled in.

at the very least I hope we can all agree that using opiates is bad advice to people trying to not be addicted to opiates. like if you're trying not to get your laptop wet, you don't suspend it above a bathtub. even if it's really fun and it's fine 99% of the time, if you are really serious about it then you won't expose it to that level of risk. if you are really serious about not getting physically dependent, doing more opiates, literally the only thing in the world that will cause that, is a pretty dumb idea and taking on that level of risk in exchange for a few hours of high seems to show (to me at least) that your priority is not independence from opiates.

that's really awesome if that works for you but a) not everyone has your hangups, I don't hate myself (for my drug use) or despise people who offer help or anything like that but I am still addicted as fuck and b) you are definitely the exception. people who can do that are one in a million
Hugh Worthingridge - Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:42:41 EST ESCXnZgl No.609933 Reply
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I don't think we actually know that much about recovery at all, but damned near everything in life is in shades of grey, nothing really is binary. At least in the US, all "recovery programs" are abstinence only programs preaching black and white narrative, and scolding and shaming for a single use, while simultaneously proclaiming the junky is not in control. So which is it? Am I out of control and not responsible for my actions? Or am I goodboi for not using? The mental gymnastics of making that making sense to someone indicates an unhealthy mind.

Those abstinence only programs are full of people who are "sober" but really more of just dried out drunks. Off the sauce, no change in attitude or behavior except for actually picking up the DOC and using. That's just not recovery from mental illness, just a band aid solution. I'd like to back that up by pointing out how in Europe they treat addiction. They start by stabilizing the person from highs and lows with clinics and metered doses of opiates, rehabbing the persons mind, getting them jobs, getting them involved with family and friends and then by the nature of re-integration the people tend to wean off on their own. That's very much mirrored by the success of suboxone clinics in the US. I think the methadone is different due to how its dispensed.

the tldr to what I'm trying to get at is that the metric of sober time is really worthless, and the quality of mental health is the only (subjective) meaningful metric. People that have that down, the mental health part, reintegrated with society, and being productive are people that may [/b] be able to chip successfully. Otherwise no, do not use. Getting high is putting icing on the cake of life. All icing and you're just a fat lonely diabetic.
Hugh Worthingridge - Fri, 30 Aug 2019 17:57:30 EST ESCXnZgl No.609934 Reply
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Nah man I don't think you're the exception rather than the rule, but you ARE the rule, like me. You got mentally healthier and thus succeeded. Every junky I know who's actually gotten well in the head, has often been smarter, and definitely harder working than their peers. You're saying nearly the same thing I did. You have to get your head on straight.

I do think that you're run of the mill of "treatment" does not actually lead to people getting well, but rather just dried out or physically without drugs.


I know I didn't have hangups or anger or anything wrong with my mental state while I was using. I also found out that I was dead wrong after getting better. People use drugs because they feel good. People do things compulsively because something is wrong or upsetting them. Dealing with the compulsive aspect of your personality is how you get right. I really wish someone had told me that before I did the 12 steps 4 times, or went to rehab 3 times, etc, etc
Doris Murddock - Sat, 31 Aug 2019 07:41:55 EST cbXJ46oj No.609942 Reply
what thread are we even in? did you read OPs post and think "yeah, this guy wants to be "clean" (you know what I mean)"? Every time one of these threads comes up, people come out of the woodwork to justify their use. Use, don't use, nobody who doesn't know you personally cares, but telling people that using opiates while trying to stay clean from opiates is anything but a recipe for further addiction is dangerously bad advice.

I didn't mention anything about sober time or anything, you didn't really respond to anything I said or seem to read my post too closely. again, claiming that abstinence only programs only make sense to an unhealthy mind (ps: healthy minds are not usually drug addicts so weird direction to go with that) is the exact black and white mentality that you claim to be against. and again, I don't even like 12 step programs so you're only really arguing against this made up idea of what you think my opinion is.

OP (and 99% of this board) don't live in countries that have sane drug policies and safe access to opiates for cheap, so pointing to that as an excuse to use while pretending you wont end up addicted again doesn't really check out. the realities of opiate addiction are so radically different in somewhere like the US compared with whatever country gives out free morphine to whoever needs it (i forget where).

to sum up my point (if you want to respond to any of this, respond to this): using opiates is the literal only way to end up physically addicted to them. If you decide that being high for a few hours is worth that risk, I have a hard time believing you can handle chipping

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