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Discord Now Fully Linked With 420chan IRC

So how the fuck does one even get on subs or methadone?

- Sun, 01 Sep 2019 22:18:15 EST DOtmUPy9 No.609972
File: 1567390695622.jpg -(55008B / 53.72KB, 343x317) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. So how the fuck does one even get on subs or methadone?
I see all these ex-heroin addicts on suboxone or methadone, talking about how they went from rock bottom to normal with it. And I'm just left wondering how. How can someone with less than $10 to their name, a rock bottom junkie, afford suboxone or methadone? It's astounding. Like I'm actually curious, how is it possible.

When I tried getting on both and called these places up I realized how expensive it was and how much of a racket it is. It seemed impossible for me and I'm not even rock bottom.

First I called a suboxone clinic and they were nice in that they actually ran my insurance to see if it covered any of it (my insurance ended up being glitched or something). They then told me weekly "therapy" /Jew sessions were mandatory. In all it'd be $800-$1200 a month.

Then I tried calling a methadone clinic and was answerwd by some retard Black chick who didn't understand anything. Asked if my insurance could cover any of it or if they could run my account to see if I could get it cheaper. She literally didn't understand it. Responded in grunts and primitive slang. Ended up basically hanging up on me. Then later I tried calling back for a week every day with no response every time I called. Finally they picked up and gave me this retarded price plus tons of "therapy sessions" too.

Fuck man it's depressing. How the fuck do you get on this shit without it being more expensive and hassling than dope?
DTMO - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 22:49:55 EST Ks4d2EmT No.609973 Reply
The government subsidises it at $6/day regardless of dose. It's pretty nice.
Hillbilly Heroin !JhIhjqOq5k - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 23:30:39 EST 7Y8izlLY No.609975 Reply
>How can someone with less than $10 to their name, a rock bottom junkie, afford suboxone or methadone?

The same ways broke ass junkies always get money to score and then once you are on it and not blowing all of your cash on opis its even easier.

Look for some other clinics in your area. All the ones around me charge, on average, $13/day for methadone and an extra $2 if you want suboxone regardless of dosage.

I think you are overstating the amount of people who get on methadone or subs and go "back to normal" I would say the majority of people on MRT or SRT stay on it for years and years or jump around from clinic to clinic because they get kicked out for pissing dirty too many times, missing meetings, etc. Some drive hours EVERYDAY because they have been kicked from the ones around them. Most of them still use other drugs and because of the above reasons you get people on it for years barely dropping down and never getting takehomes when they should only be having to go in once a month. Lots on benzo scripts too which they trade in the parking lots for more methadone.

This is the case more often than not(at least where I've been in the US) though plenty do get off of it and stay clean. Some for a while and some forever.
Eden - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 23:33:23 EST 2hQ1moY2 No.609976 Reply
1567395203177.gif -(1572719B / 1.50MB, 500x350) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
I feel you. The price of the clinic I planned to go to tripped me out. It was about 200 a week, so a review said... I'm uninsured, but I have a bit of money coming (1.6K$) that I want to use to get treated and stabilized that I might find regular work again. Some online sources I've read said that on average it costs 100-125 a month without insurance, so I'm scraching my head. Maybe I read old articles.
lol - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 01:36:26 EST IggaRoSW No.609978 Reply

Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me. Some
nate - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 04:49:20 EST MXwJd0uM No.609979 Reply
Depends where you're from.

In NZ and aus (and most progressive first world countries) it is completely 100% free
Thants !IZgeXR9w82 - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 15:45:43 EST OgX3IMCX No.609997 Reply
>Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me
Thants !IZgeXR9w82 - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 15:48:07 EST OgX3IMCX No.609998 Reply
>Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me
That feeling when my morph + benzos almost tops 100$/per day and the gov't foots the bill
Rebecca Brublingnudging - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 07:22:28 EST mtvrtOdO No.610090 Reply
Meds' values aren't pushed unnaturally and all get generics very quickly in countries not in America. The couple years I lived on welfare, I managed to find a decent 3 room apartment in somebody who had turned his basement into an apartment and I was able to pay for internets and the part of the electricity I paid (everything except the heating and the hot water) for just 300 dollars a month, granted I live kind at the line where civilization ceases in mountiesland, cost of living being pretty and it's not a shitty town either. Difference between rich and poor is much much lesser than down south that's for sure.

I was just getting on treatment, so I had welfare for ill people, 180 bucks more, and the co-pay I had was up to 16 dollars then everything was paid for. I cost the province about 8500, my parents paid about 10 times that in taxes, watch me care about the government's purse. Also when I got back in college and got a job at the same time, they gave me 500 dollars and paid for anything I'd have to for work if they did that kind of thing, thankfully they didn't, 3 nights a week, sundays for 12 hours, I was the gas pumper, cos we still have gas stations with such these days, but I also was the cashier, tiny gas station. Nobody ever knew I was high as fuck on methadone the first year lol. I switched to bupe cos of some side effects of the 'done, which had me need surgery so I was for a month and half on 200mg morphine XR (Kadians) pills because the assholes managed to increase my tolerance, I got to the ORT clinic with a smaller tolerance than when I left...anyway I now pay for my pain clinic meds.

So I guess thank you "state" for using my parents taxes well at the time.
Simon Lightfoot - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 15:55:31 EST yh9RsZAz No.610103 Reply
I live in Ireland so I'm not sure about the differences in cost but I quit by using methadone I bought from friends that were on clinics. It was so much less expensive than my habit. I had been tapering my heroin use down for about 6 months beforehand, at first because circumstances changed and I couldn't afford my habit anymore and then because I just really wanted to quit. That was back in 2014 so I'm not sure if I remember the price correctly but I think 100ml of methadone is €20 on the street here. My habit was heroin #3, brown, which I mostly smoked. I still smoke it rarely, just a handful of times a year. I'm having a smoke tonight.

Just a few words of encouragement for anyone that uses heroin because I can't comment on pills. Quitting like I did is very doable. I thought I'd never get clean and I was surprised at how easy it was for me. There were a few things I think were key to this: I was at a point where I really wanted to stop more than anything, I had a reliable supply of cheap methadone and I started a degree course which was paid for by the government along with a living allowance. I qualified for a Back to Education scheme because I was unemployed at that point. I was very lucky and I'm so grateful for that.

People that go on clinics here in Ireland rarely get off methadone. They keep you on a high dose for a long time and often refuse to lower it. A methadone habit is very hard to quit, much harder than heroin. I tapered myself down and took my last 5ml dose of methadone on the day of my last 1st year exam in 2014. I hadn't even planned to stop. I just woke up and thought I would try not to take it. Same the next day and the day after that. I felt a bit crappy for 2 weeks but nothing I couldn't deal with.

In the beginning it will be a real challenge to only buy methadone from someone you know has gear. Some days that was pure mental torture and probably the hardest part for me. But it got easier and I think giving it up on my own terms like that made me feel stronger and more determined.
Albert Blackford - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 21:17:01 EST 3+1vaCib No.610108 Reply
Probably gave you those whack prices and "didnt understand" you for your shit attitude lol

Shits like 16 dollars a day average. You can find it, try having someone who's not a prick search for you.
DrFeelsGoodMan !psUx8WBMWI - Sun, 08 Sep 2019 02:55:21 EST ZYHpFVwP No.610132 Reply
I called the closest clinic to me, they set up a day for me, and I had to come in, pee, sign some papers, attend group therapy twice a month, two sessions with councilor, and see the doc once a month. If your insurance wont cover it, most seem to charge around 75 first dose, then 75 a week. Its a hassle, but better than being dopesick.
William Webbleville - Sun, 08 Sep 2019 16:12:03 EST h+C8rQun No.610141 Reply
Whatever is the case you all got it good in the US. Here you have bupe pills that even your GP can perscribe you, this was made exclusively with addicts in mind (pain patients get bupe patches and in many cases other opioids in combination with non opi painkillers). In reality it's a pain in the ass, docs straight out lie they can't perscribe it or use other excuses. Surely you also can get on program, but they are only in bigger towns and require you to pick up your dose everyday for first two or three weeks. And of course there is more people than places. And psychiatrists or addiction therapist all expect you to quit job/university, forget about your debts and go into treatment for few months. I know it works for people, but really what are they risking with giving bupe a try?
A hell, just another ramble about post-soviet ways of treating addicts. I'll just stick with darknet for all my needs and hope I don't end up to in prison.
Angus Clommerstone - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:35:00 EST mtvrtOdO No.610183 Reply
First 90 days to get my methadone in my province (ca) way back, not sure how it is now. But at least when you get your privileges, which was quick, every month after that i'd get one and then I would just take my orange juice + done once a week and leave with a six pack, but that was 6 months later at being a perfect patient. That's what kept me from the "social" part of it, I only had to see the social worker once, at my request, because back then 7 years ago, we didn't have a doctor assigned to us, it was completely random every time, and there was a doctor with the nickname "the wolf of the SS", what a retarded redhead who took the drug addiction class for extra money only, her nickname was Stagg too, that's pretty german sounding so it was deserved. I complained about her to the social worker and that was it, she was letting me be on a week long benz withdrawal (my psychiatrist forced them to let me keep my diazepam script, the only thing that works for the GAD), thank god, but I had lost my bottle coming back from my gf 50 minutes away in the bus, for real. Once we started to get what I expect they did out of studying the waiting room where mics are definitely present to hear what they say to each other while waiting, and they kind of figured out which doctor I liked best and the guy is amazing, after 6 years of being fucked by methadone side effects, then my teeth destroyed by our shitty lime/lemon extracts filled suboxones, I had perfect teeth, 2 minor cavities, now they all had work done on each and more appear even now that the guy was awesome enough to refer me to the pain clinic and no more bullshit 7 day supplies of suboxone max (they keep it the same as methadone) and regular GP's can't script it in my province, Ontario docs can, if they take the ridiculous 2 hour course from Rickett or whatever their name is.
Phoebe Puggleville - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 20:42:20 EST cbXJ46oj No.610198 Reply
>my teeth destroyed by our shitty lime/lemon extracts filled suboxones
there's no way there's enough acid and sugar in those to destroy your teeth if you take care of yourself. even if there's three times the amount as your average sour candy, it's not like you're taking a bunch per day.
Betsy Padgebury - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:43:33 EST ESCXnZgl No.610202 Reply
Most junkies have rotten teeth and go back to eating normally after stabilizing on subs. Then their teeth break from the food.

Sub programs are not that expensive. Yes the war an opioids is changing the rules in the US for how ORT works. Most places and states mandated some kind of recovery plan above and beyond just getting meds in exchange for cash. Now it seems like its become federally regulated that way. Idk. A reasonable program is going to be about $300 up front for the first few appointments and 1-2 weeks of meds, and meet n greet with a therapist or LCSW. Expect $100 thereafter for doc appointments and $50-100 for your therapy per month. And if you use GoodRX in the pharmacy, about another $125 for generic 30-45 strips a month RX. So you're looking at $300-400 a month. You can bank strips you don't use for when you get kicked or have to transfer. And/or sell them for 10-20 a strip and recoupe money.

The tldr with clinics is that they have the goods and deal them. They have hoops, and decent ones will help you jump through them, even hold your hand and give you lots of chances. Ultimately you must go through the hoops to get the goods. Just how it works, on the street or at the clinic.

I'm dealing with this shit right now. 2+ years on maintenance. No dirty piss, no missed appointments, glowing letters of recommendation from my old doctors as I transferred places because of my job moving/insurance changing. Now some fuccboi investment people are buying up ALL the fucking clinics around here. They are a racket, and they absolutely have program designed to extract as mush money from insurance/medicaid before kicking people out. They, of course, get a fat wad for "new" patients, or patients off of their care for more then 30-45 days. Exactly enough time to get booted, and then reapply, get billed an extra $400 for new patient fees and induction.

Just an example is that they want you to have a job and be showing progress in recovery blah blah blah. The demand that you have a job really. Then they also demand that they can randomly screen you. So they call between 8-10am and you have to piss by 4pm or you're out.
Its a rural-ish area, with not great cell reception. Miss a call? Too bad. Miss the test? too bad.

Ive tried to work with them, get a text sent (there are FREE apps for docs to do this and be in HIPPA compliance) or email sent, etc. Something that's traceable and has them being accountable. I work in Health Care IT at a high-ish level. I know what's in or out of compliance. A text saying please call such and such number and having a patient ID # is in compliance. Leaving a voicemail, and on my desk phone which is monitored, where they read my name, and PLEASE COME IN FOR YOUR DRUG SCREENING, they claim is not a violation. They're trying to justify it being a new state law or some shit. My partner is a licensed and practicing Pharm D (doctorate of pharmacy). There's no such state law.
Betsy Padgebury - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:44:32 EST ESCXnZgl No.610203 Reply
This in regards to out-patient treatment from a doc office. ymmv
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:03:58 EST tzRROuin No.610211 Reply
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Like with everything in society you need to
  1. be born into a family that has money

if you fail this step you might as well kill yourself we don't have free health insurance so you won't be getting generic suboxone for free anytime soon. (rich get richer poor get poorer, have fun living knowing a few assholes own 99% of all the wealth and wages are stagnating)
Phyllis Bobblewell - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:00:41 EST mtvrtOdO No.610214 Reply
1568192441405.jpg -(257253B / 251.22KB, 1600x987) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Have you read the rest? I said I had perfect dentition, I didn't even have to have my wisdom teeth removed, I always took great care of my teeth. I wasn't what I would describe to be a either, I just took the easy way to get some opioid everyday for free, which wasn't easy after knowing I had to show up for 90 days at the pharmacy to get my 'done. I stopped methadone because it made me gain 110 pounds in 10 months...

Rotten teeth is mostly associated with meth smokers and crack smokers.

One of my pharmacists told me she's seen a lot of people like me who had great teeth with minimal tiny white fillings ( I had 2), that didn't get worse as I was shooting up hydromorph everyday, it started with suboxone. My dentist confirmed to me, after seeing the box of suboxone and me highlighting "natural and artificial lemon and lime extracts", I verified and the thing has a ph just a bit higher than actual lime.

Also the big insert one has to unfold 50 times to be able to read it, tooth decay was the only side effect under the "Common". It also dries out one's mouth even after the 30-40 minutes of suckling on them and then spitting it out (I did that to prevent swallowing non-absorbed naloxone) I don't fit that stereotype, I typed right out of the gate that I had perfect teeth before Suboxone, at 29 years old, now, well, I didn't lose any, but I have way more mercury filled cheap fillings on my molars because my insurance only covers white fillings for front teeth, canines and upper pre-molars and I'm in a very strong union.

I guess that nurse at the ORT clinic telling me I had "really beautiful teeth" was kind of warning me when we did the suboxone induction thing. At least near the end, we had generics and there were generics that were way less acidic and mr Clean tasting.
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:33:35 EST tzRROuin No.610217 Reply
1568194415797.png -(678307B / 662.41KB, 1018x1018) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>in a strong union

you lucky fuck. i envy you so bad. i have a masters degree and would kill to have a living wage/union job.

Also your teeth only rot if you take subs because of a lack of care, you dont brush every day and you barely drink water because you are never thirsty. if you force yourself to chug a gallon of water a day while on subs your teeth will be fine. i've been on subs for almost 10 years, never had a cavity in my life, teeth and gums never hurt in my life. >>610214
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:45:34 EST tzRROuin No.610219 Reply
i got a 10 year 4mg a day suboxone habit which i picked up after being prescribed suboxone for a year long oxycontin dependency.
i kinda hate subs now. the nalaxone is garbage. i dont think it will be too hard to quit since i will effectively do what you did and just say "i am gunna try not taking any today" and deal with the 2 shitty weeks without them withdrawing by either forcing myself to do pushups all day.
DTMO - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:14:37 EST WPH+dayt No.610223 Reply
>Your teeth only rot if you take subs because of a lack of care

Nope. The acidic drug preparation that's full of starches and designed to stick to tissues also does a great job of fucking up your teeth believe it or not.

My self care improved when I got on subs if anything, but my teeth went downhill fast.
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:57:51 EST tzRROuin No.610244 Reply
guess im weird then because ive been taking subs for 10 years and my teeth look fine. a little yellow but fine. maybe you have to take extra care to put the strip right under your tongue so you don't salivate too much or have it interact with your teeth
Eugene Pockforth - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 20:08:06 EST ESCXnZgl No.610252 Reply
bro dawg
I'm 29 as well, and fuck 30 is close around the corner, but I had no dental work prior to being on subs the last 5 years or so (year on, few months off, back, and off etc with 2yr consecutive) and my teeth are exactly the same as they've always been. No recession of gums, cavities, etc. The dry mouth is probably far worse than the "lemon lime orange" tid bit of flavoring.
The thing about pH and pOH is that its a logarithmic measure of how many ions of H+ or OH- are in solution. You can't really have a measure of ions in solution in a solid. Just imo, I've used citric and lemon juice to shoot freebase drugs, and its got a nasty burn to it from the acidity. And I've dissolved half or more of a strip and older octagon pills and never had any kind of burn or vein problems which leads me to believe that the solution of 1mL with 4mg or whatever wasn't very acidic or basic, and not compared to an actual lemon of citric acid. I'm just sayin

Aside, the biggest factor from a quick google is dry mouth, which is what causes meth users and heroin users to loose their teeth on top of lack of hygiene. I'm not even disagreeing that there is vitamin C in the films, but there's less than 90mg. They only weight about 100mg per 8mg film and 10 of that is the med itself. The majority of which is filler and gelatin, which would leave no more than 40mg of vitamin C, which is nothing really.

Im sorry your teeth rotted man
Martin Worthingson - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 21:06:35 EST cbXJ46oj No.610260 Reply
there is no where near enough acid in a sub strip to ruin your teeth if you take care of them, that's just not true.
Albert Pittridge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:46:41 EST mtvrtOdO No.610284 Reply
Doctors and pharmacists telling me their empirical experience. The lower front teeth are those where I needed work on so many times, that's where you hold the damn pill/saliva+suboxone for 20-30-40 minutes depending on what you prefer. It's directly related to Canadian Suboxone, which are white, not orange, I assume the Orange pills were orange tasting and thus had a higher pH. I cannot speak for things like strips, those blotter like 1mg squares would've made getting off bupe easier with the possibility of going down by 1mg, not a possibility here, 2mg and 8mg pills, same with the generics. Bunavail was rejected by our equivalent of the FDA and apparently it aint great and my sub/methadone doc never heard of Zubsolv, although I hear good and bad things about it, plus the pills are apparently tasteless.

Those strips likely aren't acidic like white brand name and some generic canadian suboxone pills...my american opi bros can tell me. I was smoking cigs still then, that didn't help I guess, I stopped the smokes since april 2014, vape very low (6mg) nicotine juice. But that stuff makes me get a lot of mucus in my throat no matter if they're cheap vapes or good ones like say Kangertech.

I'll take those people's knowledge first, don't take it personally. The one pharmacist I like the least at my pharmacy, some holier-than-thou redhead, when I was switching to subs told me, brush your teeth even more, i've already seen 4 patients since Suboxone is paid for by government med insurance, it gives cavities on the long term.

Another reason not to use bupe on the long term but for 3 month detox max, notwithstanding the likely opiate receptor damaging effects of very long use of an agonist, no matter how partial, sticks to those mu receptors more than almost anything else, had to have a script for Abstrals before and after surgery (400ug) with Kadians 200mg (morphine XR) so I would feel actual real opiate effect, after not taking bupe for 52 hours when that happened, man was I glad to get it again.

Now I get it all the time with the generic oxy-CR 60s but man the road I travelled, 7 years later and they managed to get my tolerance higher even after getting off bupe, an Oxy 40 would wreck me before I got in, methadone made me gain 110 pounds in 10 months and suboxone ate away the enamel of my frontal lower teeth like crazy, it's amazing I don't need partial dentures, my dentist's pretty good and patient for sure.

It's different for a lot of people but that's a definite trend, like, we're getting a blood sample taken every 6 months for liver enzymes, because bupe fucks with some people's liver so bad, apparently, 2 girls who did not drink with their bupe told me how quickly they went back to 'done and one since she had a bunch of pain issues, even more than me, was telling me that health canada was looking up her application for pharma heroin ampoules, both ended up in the ER with their liver extremely large and painful, I thought it was a rare thing but it's more common than I thought.

Yet when I spoke about this years ago around here 'merkins were all "wow, that's nonsense, they likely were lying and looking for other stuff"..which is kinda dumb, I had to go to the clinic during a nurse strike, so the nurses did the very minimum and didn't take the sample rightt away and gave me 3 or 4 times over 2 years (it was a 3 year pressure means strike) a sheet for bloodwork like my GP would give me give me with all tthe things one can be checked for with boxes checked and only one liver enzyme test was checked, everything else was blank, so it's def real.
Albert Pittridge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:54:15 EST mtvrtOdO No.610285 Reply
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I made clear that strips do not exist here...in my first post in this thread and how it pissed me off.
Martin Worthingson - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 14:38:31 EST cbXJ46oj No.610292 Reply
strip or otherwise is totally irrelevant, you couldn't miss the point harder if you tried (and you seem to be).
you can eat sour candy every day and be fine but apparently a single sub is enough to fuck them? people wake up and drink entire glasses of orange juice and grapefruit juice everyday of their lives and somehow manage to not have their teeth fall apart. again, there is nowhere near enough acid in a single pill, strip, lozenge, what the fuck ever, to ruin your teeth on their own.
Cornelius Brerringchidge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 16:52:48 EST PlbmM6K2 No.610298 Reply
In US states with big cities Methadone MAT is usually cheap or free. Sub MAT is usually out of pocket and expensive but less expensive than a heroin habit. Best way to get off heroin is sub maintenance for 3 - 5 days starting at 8mg or less titrating down to nothing. And before you take ur first sub wait at least 24 hr from last heroin dose especially if it was fentanyl cut or you'll be sick af. Find a sober support network while in this process and go to meetings/get a sponsor and go through steps. Seems to work for others I'm currently in the process about a month sober. I had 40 days a few weeks ago but wasn't doing recovery work and relapsed on crack, heroin, and alcohol. You can do it. Fuck long term MAT I was on subs for 8 years and shit is a ball and chain around ur life and I just used in between doses on top of drinking smoking weed everyday. I felt "normal" cause I wasnt dope sick but I was still fucking miserable. Not to mention it kills ur sex drive.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:13:24 EST mtvrtOdO No.610313 Reply
>single pill
>6 years 1/2 of stuffing one eight and two 2's, then one eight and a two, one eight etc..

You seemingly do no want to even get it. You've never seen a Canadian Suboxone. Dentists also hate grapefruit and orange juice in the morning, it scrapes the enamel faster than if not. Over time is key here, and there was plenty of time, every fucking day, 1600 days+ of overly acidic pills one has to suckle on under their tongue right at the surface contact points where I had so many fillings ever since I got on Subs (thankfully i'm out now). My teeth ain't rotten now, they just have tons of fillings, white or the mercury crap, the thing is proven by Rickett itself to possibly do that.

In the end, the docs and pharmacists know better than you, that's it. I also got someone else ITT that's had the same exact issue as me. Take a shot or something, you're strung out and lashing out.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:24:01 EST mtvrtOdO No.610315 Reply
This. This guy gets it and not because he's even had the same issue as me, but because he isn't being an overly defensive lil' bitch, for what? Are these other guys full of Rickett stocks in their portfolios?
William Fugglelock - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:44:24 EST cbXJ46oj No.610319 Reply
>Dentists also hate grapefruit and orange juice in the morning, it scrapes the enamel faster than if not
that was my point, if people can drink that super acidic stuff every day and still take care of their teeth then two or three pills a day should be manageable. I'm sorry that I came off as lashing out, none of this really matters and I was unnecessarily rude, as well as off topic and unhelpful. I apologize for my rude behavior and general unpleasantness.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:07:26 EST mtvrtOdO No.610323 Reply
Alrighty then, as long as you acknowledge that after a couple years of constant 12mg, the surface contact with my teeth was something to consider. Film would be great, I'd just place the thing on the inside of my mouth and suckle on, no pill material touching the teeth at all, they're on advantage I've read about.
Simon Mangergold - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 02:56:38 EST THYXFx4j No.610403 Reply
best way to get off heroin is not sub. its lope and uldn, maybe a bit of kratom
P - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 20:51:24 EST v6N73DW3 No.610422 Reply
For real? Methadone is cheap/free in big cities? That would be amazing.
DTMO - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 22:00:57 EST Ks4d2EmT No.610427 Reply
Surely the point is whether subs *can* fuck up your teeth. We are never gonna say it will fuck everyone's teeth every time.

Good luck OP, I hated ORT (mostly supervised dosing and stigma) but it did really help me out. As much as i have problems with how it's implemented it's great to have the option.
P - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 23:39:14 EST v6N73DW3 No.610429 Reply
I asked the clinic near me and they said it's $75 a week. With some perspective this is actually a great price. My problem in the past was looking at the total monthly cost of like $350 and thinking it's too high but when I analyze myself I realize I spend like $50-$75 a week on other, shittier opiates (like kratom or suboxone or PST). So I'm definitely going to be getting in methadone. Very excited for a full agonist again.

My only worry now is initial costs. Is intake or the initial appointment usually expensive?
P - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 23:40:19 EST v6N73DW3 No.610430 Reply
$75 a week + copay (even though they're not accepting my insurance). Absolutely fucking ridiculous. I hope it's not too much.
P - Tue, 17 Sep 2019 00:07:09 EST v6N73DW3 No.610431 Reply
I've heard a lot of conflicting experiences with methadone but it has to be better than what I'm using now. I want a true full agonist that actually feels like an opiate. I'm gonna keep my dose low to avoid the complete desensitization people get.

My only concern is take homes. I don't even mind going in every day, it's just that methadone will make traveling much harder.

Anyone wanna share their experiences with methadone? How euphoric is it long term at moderate doses?
James Dropperchutch - Tue, 17 Sep 2019 07:17:46 EST Gq7Ci+Hg No.610440 Reply
It really varies from place to place but after few weeks (months in worse case) they don't mind you picking up more because you have some trip planned. Of course if you fail drug tests or travel every month, this won't fly. As far as going cross borders, they should provide you with some documents enabling you to carry your mdone on planes etc.
I can't tell you much about how it works, never tried it. According to my friend it's very noddy and can be quite euphoric at the beginning. It's nice when mixed with benzos or alcohol, but of course that carries more risk of OD. Be careful with it, this is some strong shit.
William Murddock - Thu, 19 Sep 2019 02:17:28 EST THYXFx4j No.610477 Reply
Used to get much suboxone as i wanted with very cheap insurance for $1.20 copay. Then I moved to a different state. Now I pay $200 for dr appt and $90 for my subutex (and diaz and ambien). At least paying out of pocket for a doc, will allow me to take benz/zdrugs
Fanny Hasslehood - Fri, 20 Sep 2019 05:12:54 EST qiICEOdE No.610509 Reply
In Australia if you go on methadone or suboxone will it be on any kind of 'permanent record' that any doctor can see? Would my current doctor (who prescribes me Valium that I really do not want to lose) find out?

Thanks in advance for any helpful replies
Charles Dettingdock - Sat, 21 Sep 2019 03:49:07 EST Yg8SeDMQ No.610537 Reply
Depends if you applied to be not included in the recent federal database. If you did so no it won't, if you didn't then it's accessible. Don't believe you can remove yourself now.
Your best bet is getting on bupe as doctors (in aus) aren't keen on prescribing done with benzos, but less see subs/Benz as problematic.

T. Aus medfag.
Nicholas Pockshaw - Sat, 21 Sep 2019 04:46:43 EST Z07Ztzyi No.610538 Reply
Thanks for the reply
I opted out of that database thankfully
I'd go to a different doctor at a different clinic to talk about going on ORT or I may go straight to DASSA which is an organisation that I did a rapid detox with back in 2016 and offered to help me get onto daily suboxone if I relapsed when they checked up on me a couple of weeks after I left.

Do you know how easy it is to get take-homes if I go on methadone? There is one tiny pharmacy in my small town (I have no idea if they can do methadone dosing) otherwise I only have to drive 10mins to a more populated area but obviously I'd rather not have to everyday
lol - Sat, 21 Sep 2019 06:45:13 EST IggaRoSW No.610540 Reply

I really hate when people get on these programs as a means to have their cake and eat it too rather than as an out. They are the first to either overdose or get kicked out. It to say people can't change but it's one of those things I've seen countless times that it's grinded me down. Consider subs first before anything especially if you have second thoughts on sobriety or whatever it is you're looking for. I hope you find peace regardless. it will absolutely effect things with doctors.
Nigel Fandale - Sat, 21 Sep 2019 11:52:59 EST DAlV/WQ9 No.610549 Reply
I would go on methadone to stop the cycle of being in and out of withdrawal, desperately trying to buy stuff to stop it, spending so much money/time/travel on an unpredictable and underwhelming experience compared to what the scene was like only a year ago. I would consider suboxone too but honestly I'd rather just buy that and administer it myself than go through the government.

When I'm on opiates I can be a productive member of society instead of essentially a shut in.

nb for the blogpost
Esther Hindernotch - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 03:02:11 EST v6N73DW3 No.610596 Reply
Just applied for Medicaid and got approved, how likely will I be in getting assistance for methadone?

Basically I found out about what Medicaid actually is and how people can get methadone for free or cheap on it and because I meet the income criteria 3x I decided I'd apply, and got approved.

What do I do next guys? I wrote in the application a very nice paragraph that all I want is assistance for methadone, nothing else.

Fuck it would be awesome if it worked. Getting methadone for free or cheap would be fucking amazing.
Esther Hindernotch - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 03:05:23 EST v6N73DW3 No.610597 Reply
Yeah some people are retarded but I just want a stability. Don't mind if I happen to get high too.
Martha Sugglegold - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 04:03:25 EST mtvrtOdO No.610603 Reply
This. I also faced losing one of two benzo scripts, my mind was battered, couldn't have handled it without help, I would have preferred so but my so-called friend, my own fucking dealer whom I knew had low-dose morphine pills, 5 and 15mg MS IR's and M-Eslons 60's but he said that was what he actually used out of all the scripts he had from driving around the prov seeing a bunch of small town docs, guy had so many scripts....or maybe even then my gf treating me like if I had a really bad flu, but I would've needed her all day, and her damn demanding job, with often on-call overtime (nurse), she's gone 16 hours a day half the time, wasn't gonna take a week off to make sure I got clean naturally, like I did three times before I broke, by day 7 you're getting much better, worst days are day 3-4-5 and they are endless since they are so boring since all you can do is sit there and rot or lay in a bath with Pepto, Immodium (not taking over 12mg of that shit, it's neurotoxic, plus I only wanted to stop shitting my pants), my Rx hydroxyzine for nausea/sleep, clonidine and 30-40mg valium a day, but the prospect of having to do anything than just lie down in the bathtub or sit there in front of the computer because somehow opi withdrawal makes music so goddamn intense it's one of the only way out of it...and also makes one horny out of nowhere way more often, ending up with extremely quick jerk offs with orgasms that start to feel as good as shooting up just a lil bit of dilaudid (2mg).

Shit, thankfully I'm taken care of now by a pain clinic and with the same doc there that was my ORT doc, he's amazing, truly the best doc I ever met, he's also a GP, I wish he could take me but nope, no place for me there, with my 60mg Oxycodone-CR every 12 hour, all those words would be trigger back then, never browse /opi/ after getting clean.
P - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 13:03:51 EST v6N73DW3 No.610895 Reply

Well my friends, I am getting on methadone. Have intake and dosing this Monday. And it's all for free, paid for by govt gibs.

This has been something I've been trying to get for like a year. In retrospect I could have done it a year ago but I didn't know how insurance and shit works. But I'm just happy to finally get on it.

Pretty excited. It will be so nice having money. I've been waiting for this forever. Just 3 weeks ago I was so desperate and trying to find a way to get on something and came across Medicaid and decided to look into that, and it worked.

(Still not sure how it'll all work as I have primary insurance too but the clinic said they'd charge primary and then used Medicaid afterwards, she said it should be free).

What's your guys experience with Mdone? Euphoria wise. How it compares to other opiates. Etc etc.
Hugh Hoddleson - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 17:01:39 EST RqMca+QO No.610900 Reply
its a lot like heroin and morphine, at least for an opioid but after a few weeks the euphoria will be null. plus some nmda feels
Martha Lightfoot - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 17:19:20 EST ESCXnZgl No.610902 Reply
It sucks dicc. I still have hot flashes and sweats from it. Not withdrawal sweating, but like post menopause 65 year old hot lady sweats where I'm way too hot out of nowhere, sweat like a pig, and I'm find very quickly after that. Sucks.

Get on subs, don't go to methadone
P - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 19:14:26 EST v6N73DW3 No.610905 Reply
That's what I've heard, that you stop feeling euphoria. I think that's probably from the half life. I'm trying to think of ways to lower the halt life down to 8 hours, which is about twice that of morphines. As is methadone has a half life of 20-50 hours which is nuts.


I have been on subs for extended periods of time (not prescribed but bought). I'll talk to the clinic people about it and see if they offer subs.

But I also wanna try done. I want a full agonist. What was your daily dose?

See I'm scared of these side effects but I also wanna try it.
P - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 19:23:53 EST v6N73DW3 No.610906 Reply

I know that acidifying the urine can lower the half life to 19 hours while alkalizing the urine can increase it to 40 hours.

This is a general trend seen with most nitrogen containing drugs. People alkalize their urine to increase the duration of amphetamine.

This can also be done pretty easily, oral ascorbic or citric acid to acidify and oral sodium bicarbonate to alkalize. All extremely safe to ingest.

As well the enzymes responsible for methadone metabolism can be inducted.

I hope to combine those and get the methadone half life low, so that I'm not constantly on it. There needs to be dips in blood levels of opiates so that you actually enjoy it. I want to wake up in withdrawal with methadone, it gives time for the receptors to upregulate and it feels great when you dose and go from sick to high.

I think those half life reducing measures + ULDN could potentially help make it more euphoric.

This isn't a long term thing anyways (unless it feels awesome daily long term). I'm mostly using this as a free full agonist I can take daily while I save up money for other long term things and solutions.
KingPoli - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 19:30:10 EST +cuMph/+ No.610907 Reply
You can spend a long long time finding a place that accept your insurance and often the inpatient is hardly better than prison (ie: terrible food, annoying roomates, limited smoking per day).

I'd say your best bet is to find a addictions doctor. Similar to a psych, and if you are lucky you wil get 1-4 weeks of take homes first appointment. That is, unless times have changed since I got off dope.
Ernest Dadgelod - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 01:07:25 EST v6N73DW3 No.610917 Reply
I've already found a clinic and have an appointment for intake, should be getting it for free thanks to government insurance.
lol - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 08:52:48 EST oaWRMjn3 No.610923 Reply

You will get kicked off fast if you treat it as a means to get high in conjunction with other shit, that or overdose, whatever happens first, go to all your groups and one on ones and always be compliant. Methadone is no joke, i hope it works out and you decide to use it to stay off dope. If you ever wanna see a takehome you need perfect everything, thats how NY and NYC are at least.
P - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 10:32:52 EST v6N73DW3 No.610927 Reply
I don't really take other drugs anymore. I am not concerned at all about breaking rules. What I'm most concerned about right now is taking too much or too little my first day as I have things to do. I don't wanna be in WD and I don't wanna be puking either.

And thanks, I appreciate it.
Graham Fongerbet - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 14:17:42 EST eDCRoLMi No.610940 Reply
Dude I live in NYC and methadone clinics here are a fucking joke. I know plenty of people that just use methadone as free opis and spend the rest of there day chasing a bag. People just dont fuck around when they know they are going to get drug tested. If you get benzos in your urine without a dr script they gonna kick you out tho.
Graham Fongerbet - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 14:20:59 EST eDCRoLMi No.610941 Reply
Also never throw away your id cards from clinics cause if you get arrested or get really sick and its past the time they close you can get a dose of methadone. Only do this in emergencys cause they wont dose you methadone ever again in that hospital without verification after that. But if you going to rikers island fuck get what ever you can to make it less horrible before getting to c97.
lol - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 15:41:31 EST oaWRMjn3 No.610943 Reply

Does rikers still do the few day taper in there? Imagine its better now but it was brutal back in the day, docs are always serious about benzos in clinics other opis not as much but if youre constantly fuckin up and refuse to do detox or IOP or whatever they want theyll get you out fast.
lol - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 15:55:50 EST oaWRMjn3 No.610944 Reply

Had to dose at hospitals a few times fuck st peters. Albany med was cool though, they call the clinic to verify who you are and fax your info over. If you have no id or they cant reach anyone and youre fucked, here they do up to 3 missed doses until they drop you down A LOT so keep that in mind too OP
P - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 22:31:15 EST v6N73DW3 No.610949 Reply
So just to be clear, methadone is not euphoric at all? I'm really hoping for something that feels at least somewhat good.
Charles Decklelod - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 06:45:41 EST UXTocwUM No.610956 Reply
Nah, when you have very low tolly it is a bit euphoric but very sedating. I know guys and gals who used tiny amounts of oxy, tram and codeine here and there and thry sometimes copped a bit o mdone to get high af, they said it was alright.
P - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 19:22:39 EST v6N73DW3 No.610969 Reply

Just ran out of all opis, took my last dose. Currently on the come up and waiting for tomorrow morning. Gonna be in WD later tonight and definitely tomorrow morning, was already in WD most of today as I was saving this, but that's fine. Tomorrow morning will suck but hopefully the done tides me over. I'm really hoping I like it.

If after a couple weeks/month of methadone I don't like it, I'll probably switch to suboxone to be honest. I've never had a script, always bought it off the streets, but with my new low income program I should be able to get it for free or very cheap, and I think the clinic prescribes it.

I'm interested in trying it as I've only ever done it sublingually at 2mg-4mg doses daily. I've never tried IV, and low vs high doses, and I wanna see what those all feel like (yes I'll use a wheel filter).

Sublingual buprenorphine basically has the pharmacokinetics of a mix of oral and ER morphine, pretty slow come up. Considering how so many people feel little euphoria on oral opiates (like morphine), but yet feel IV morphine is amazing, then perhaps the same would be with buprenorphine, and this is what many report: sublingual buprenorphine removes WD and gives a mediocre to non-existent buzz, while IV buprenorphine feels great. No rush comparable to IV heroin but still good.

I personally get some euphoria with buprenorphine so I think IV'ing it would feel very good to me (especially in the morning, and if dose is kept low).

This would be a good solution as I'd have complete control over dose and wouldn't have to report to the clinic every morning (which is actually probably a good thing for discipline and waking up every day but I can tell will be very annoying on the weekends).

This all of course depends on how methadone feels to me. If it's good I'll simply stay on it for a little bit, a couple months perhaps.
P - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 19:45:43 EST v6N73DW3 No.610970 Reply
And if I do switch to suboxone, I will be seperating the naloxone from it, because if I do switch to suboxone I will 100% be IV'ing it daily.

People usually have a problem with that for two reasons; 1, they say it's unnecessary because buprenorphine's binding is so much higher than naloxones, and 2, because they say seperating them is impossible. Both are mostly wrong.

Yes, they are right that the naloxone in suboxone won't cause WD when injected, that is true, it was pharma BS and lies. However the naloxone in suboxone 100% takes away from the high, especially when IV'ed. It's still naloxone, and a fairly high dose of it too. It won't necessarily prevent a high but it can turn it from something truly good to extremely subtle or non-existent. This is backed up by countless peoples experience, subutex is 100% more euphoric especially when injected.

2, they can be seperated, if the data sheets of them online are true. Buprenorphine has a solubility in ethanol or 42mg/ml. Naloxone is "poorly soluble" in ethanol, I assume this means less than 1mg-3mg, which is fine. Put 5 suboxone strips in 1.2ml pure ethanol, shake and dissolve, filter through cotton, evaporate. That should leave you with nearly 40mg buprenorphine (probably more like 38mg) and 1mg-2mg naloxone at most (would be 10mg in water). This brings the ratio of buprenorphine to naloxone to 8mg/.2mg-.4mg, or 200mcg-400mcg. Decreasing naloxone by 10-20x. Or 1mg bup to .025mg/25mcg naloxone. That's basically ULDN levels so I'm completely fine with that.

Instead of evaping ethanol, it could be mixed with 20ml-40ml bacteriostatic water to make a rough 2mg-1mg bup / 1ml solution. Either run all of it through a micron filter at once or run each shot individually.

So yes, I will be trying to get a free/cheap suboxone prescription if methadone doesn't feel good, and if I do I will be shooting it up on the daily. Experiences especially with subutex would be appreciated. Would be using kratom for a week inbetween dosing to prevent any possibility of PWD.

I've heard a good amount of people say IV subutex is extremely euphoric, especially people who do it long term (bup seems to be a drug that requires an adaptation phase to become euphoric). A couple guys were saying it was equal to oxycodone in euphoria.

Bup can be euphoric, especially when you're in WD, have been using it a while, are on a low dose, and it has no naloxone. I remember amazing highs I've had it from it, all of them because I had been on bup for a couple months and then went without for a day or two. When I finally dosed 2mg I would get amazing highs (and then would try redosing 2mg a couple hours later and somehow killing the high). Low dose seems to be essential, if only to allow blood level dips which is the key to buprenorphine euphoria.

I shouldn't worry about this right now. What I should worry about is how shitty it's going to feel having to bike 25 minutes in cold possibly rainy weather while in WD.
Caroline Dankinstock - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 20:37:08 EST RqMca+QO No.610972 Reply
Same with sublingual dosing. The trace naloxone (which is a small fraction of what would be iv'd) reduces euphoria and causes headaches in many.

For the record, main metabolite norbupe is a full mu agonist, which is probably responsible for low dose effect. Personally, I prefer 12-16mg bupe/day than 0.5-4mg doses. Although taking 8mg once/day has more euphoria than taking more ime.
P - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 22:01:51 EST v6N73DW3 No.610974 Reply
Oh fuck, I just remembered something. When I was setting up my intake/appointment time I asked the lady if it'd take 4 hours and she laughed and said "no it should only take an hour".

I've been assuming I'd be dosed the same day but what if I'm not? She said first intake only takes am hour which seems way too short. Fuck man I'm all out and cashless I really don't wanna go through WD for a day or two.

On the other hand she never mentioned anything else about any other 4 hours appointments. And I told her I'm completely busy on Tuesday (couldn't do an appointment at 9) and she didn't mention anything about that. Which makes me think they'll dose me tomorrow and then I'll just come in early every morning.

Also I'm not sure if this is a figment of my imagination as I waa super tired and in WD when calling her but I remember hearing her say "we'll get you dosed". Fuck I hope that's true.

Really hoping I get that methadone tomorrow my friends, and that it's enough.
P - Sun, 06 Oct 2019 23:05:46 EST v6N73DW3 No.610975 Reply
Actually I do think I remember her saying they'd get me dosed, I thought about it more and feel like I definitely remember that.

So if they drug test me tomorrow, I want to fail for opiates right? Just making sure.

Beginning to go into slight WDs, and haven't felt good for a couple hours. I can't wait to dose man.
Isabella Pocklock - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 02:25:25 EST BWRWpT11 No.610978 Reply
Haha relax man, you really don't know how this goes hey. I'm in Australia but have read countless reports on circlejerk. Might be worth posting on r/opiates or r/methadone for some more reassurance. An hour is heaps of time for intake, the few times I've done it here it has ranged from 5-15 minutes. They usually just ask what you've been taking, ROA, doses and for how long. I know they like drug testing more in the states but I wasn't tested, just had to show the doc my track marks, didn't inspect them too thoroughly. If you appear sick it'll make things easier too. With methadone I believe it's common for them to start you on 30 mg despite where your use is at and they put you up 10 mg a day or so til you're completely covered. Coming from 16mg of subs which barely helped by the end when my habit kept escalating the 30mg was great and I had about 2 gram of morphine equivalent habit each day so a pretty hefty tolerance. Your mileage may vary but that's the basic song and dance for just about everywhere in the world. Unless you tell them you had a fat shot just before the appointment and seem like you're nodding you will get your dose that day. The main thing that scares them is if you mix your methadone with other opioids or try dosing on a shitload of downers or while smashed drunk. I know this shit is scary starting out and there's a lot of uncertainty but you're making an awesome choice that will honestly change your life. Methadone really saved my ass and improved my quality of life immeasurably, and I still shoot up some sweet high purity fent free china white us Aussies get to enjoy, I'm just now able to space it out to every week or two and don't do anything possible to get more heroin. I really hope things go well for you and commend you for doing the right thing, best of luck my friend, soon you will never have to fear getting sick again.
Fanny Drobbledodge - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 05:50:31 EST U6KDB+gq No.610979 Reply
Interesting and good info there, thanks man. Never ived bupe with naloxone as mostly gst pills with only bupe in them. Sublingually I didn't notice much difference but I was on low doses (2mg in the morning, 1mg in the evening was my highest in the last few months). For some reasons bupe works stronger for me than it does on other people so that's good. I never had methadone but I'll tell you that bupe is awesome for maintenance or just when you need to save some money and not spend like 100$ a day on dope or pills.
lol - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 11:08:26 EST oaWRMjn3 No.610981 Reply

Jesus man, no offense but you seem out of your depth with this shit which is a horrible thing to be, theyll dose you and keep you to make sure you arent getting too much or too little, this broad came in once for intake and was falling all over from it, needless to say she didnt get it, i personally believe if you can catch a buzz like that off induction dose then you have many other things to try before fucking with methadone. I was also on subutex and most other forms of sub for about 4 or 5 years between 3 docs, subs have no rush IV and all forms of sub feel literally the same, i actually preferred the strips since theyre easiest to shoot, thats another drug green ppl can get lots out of but it also fades. Id go with the subs over methadone since you seem to want to be able to fuck around and not have to do treatment, private sub docs are best for that.
DTMO - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:06:12 EST Ks4d2EmT No.610984 Reply
Bupe and methadone are both S8 medicines which means they must be registered with a central authority. Benzos are a special category S4 and also centrally registered. If you have concurrent scripts questions may be asked and the prescribing doctor will be told. I was confronted about having had a ritalin script when i went onto bupe.

T.Aus pharmfsg
P - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:11:43 EST v6N73DW3 No.610986 Reply
Fuck my life they didn't dose me. I was counting on that. Goddammit.

The clinic requires weekly meetings/counseling for methadone patients anywaya so they offereded me to get on suboxone... Later this week.

Fuck my lifr guys. I hate WDs.

Luckily I had some old seeds I brewed up last night. Drank a cup of that it and it got rid of the worst of it but I'm certainly not high.
dr. m - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 13:18:50 EST LOk04uH3 No.610987 Reply

Naloxone does absolutely nothing when dosed alongside buprenorphine, even when IVed. You seem to be dealing with stuff beyond your area of expertise.
P - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 19:34:45 EST v6N73DW3 No.610995 Reply
Yes it does.

I mean, I'm not saying it will put you in WD if injected like big pharma says. That's complete bullshit.

But for some it definitely has an effect. Sublingually it seems to have little to know effect but snorting, rectal, and especially IV it seems to cut the edge off the euphoria.

I doubt it would do this if you inject a whole strip though. That's just too much bup for naloxone to effect. But half a strip, it does.

It's also extremely personal. For some, im fact possibly most, it probably has no effect. But for some it definitely does.

I mean buprenorphine is already by itself so personal in effects that hard rules can't be set only patterns. Just having one different allele can change buprenorphines effects significantly. Some people's receptors respond much more strongly to it than others (which is why I suspect some people feel nearly nothing on it, or it's super weak, and why how they need to wait super long to avoid PWD - yet others get a real decent high from it and can take it 12 hours after a shot and avoid PWDs and get well. Probably all down to μ receptor genetics).
P - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 19:40:49 EST v6N73DW3 No.610997 Reply
Thanks for reply.

Yeah lol, I'm still hashing it out in my mind what to get on. I'm now realizing how fucking inconvenient the hour long there and back bike ride will be every day.

Also, and I really should have suspected this, but it's just astounding how sad methadone clinics are. That place was full of the lowest dregs of society and it was just depressing as fuck.

Like lol when they did the piss test I went into a bathroom with a window into the same area the nurse's poured peoples methadone. I pissed in a cup, poured it into a bottle and closed it, and handed it to the nurse. She didn't wash her hands afterwards and poured peoples doses.

Anyways, they didn't dose me today, it'll be later this week. Might do it might not. Depends on a lot of things. Suboxone would be more convenient but possibly will cost more while mdone should be completely free.
P - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 19:52:47 EST v6N73DW3 No.610998 Reply
Really sorry for the spam my friends, a couple hours ago I was able to conjure up enough money today to get high for the next few days, possibly a week if I control myself.

I seriously don't understand how we're able to routinely make money magically appear like this. Oh yeah, I know, because withdrawal is the worst thing in the world.

It feels good to be secure again. I am so tired of this cycle but thankfully I should be getting on something by the end of the week. Feels so good to be able to just relax, I felt so awful earlier today, by the time I dosed my pupils were fucking huge.

I'm not usually one to criticize the US. I love my country. I'm not some over the top patrioric person, I see the negatives it has, but I'm not one of those people who think it's completely shit and inferior in every way to Europe or Australia.

But in terms of drug policy and especially treatment, it is just a fucking joke.

As well even though I'm resoundingly pro drug of every form, I definitely don't think the government should pay for free maintenance drugs for addicts or free needles. It probably would have a good effect on money saving but in principle I disagree with it - I don't want my taxes going to certain thinge.

But damn is this shit overpriced as fuck. I'm not saying it's gotta be free but it does NOT cost $15 a day to produce 100mg methadone syrup. Same with suboxone. These drugs are dirt cheap to produce. Just make a government program where they run the clinics and operate net neutral. Make enough money to cover government spending. Make it so it's actually easy to get into the program instead of a giant puzzle.

Basically, do it like Australia except not free but still very cheap.


Thanks, I appreciate it. I will let you know how it goes if I go that route (I probably will).
lol - Mon, 07 Oct 2019 21:20:09 EST oaWRMjn3 No.611002 Reply

They are extremely sad places, shit i see daily is heartbreaking? How old are you? If you dont mind me askin, methadone clinic is def not the place to want to spend your life. Its a fucked up thing but if you can somehow tune it out and not be influenced then it really works, i still stand by and probably always will that methadone should be absolute rock bottom last resort with how much it ends up changing your life
P - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 01:51:10 EST v6N73DW3 No.611007 Reply
When talking to fellow addicts on the internet I was always imagine them as looking normal but now after seeing the people at the mdone clinic today I've remembered just how sick looking the average junkie is.

It's been a year or so since I've interacted with other junkies frequently so I guess I forgot.

The clinic was just fucking sad and gross. Nearly all of the patients there looked sick, sad, and deformed. Obesity, super greasy hair, acne, unhealthy skin, wrinkles, etc etc. And that's not even mentioning their facial structures: nearly everyone there had fucked up faced and bone structure. I'm not sure how else to put it but their faces looked weird.

Tons of White trash. They had White trash facial features. Not just shitty clothes or whatever, but you could tell by their facial features.

It makes a ton of sense, these people are self medicating with opiates because they're sick and low IQ. They self medicate because their lives suck. Very sad.

And it's interesting that it wasn't just the patients who looked sick and odd. The counselors and workers there were obese, had unhealthy skin, and had odd facial features too. I got the impression they were low intelligence.

This completely explains the poor management I had experienced trying to get this set up. Why my calls were never answered unless I spammed the shit out of them, why they mixed me up with someone else and gave me completely wrong directions. Why they never responded to emails.

And yeah, the lady who I tried calling over and over for weeks sent me to the wrong place for no conceivable reason. Wasted money and time on a ride there.

Also, so many kids in the waiting room with their addict parents.

Now I understand why so many casually mention methadone clinics to be depressing. It's like an entirely different world.

This is coming from somebody who basically lived amongst the honeless for half a year, who spent all day every day wading through tent cities and interacting with the lowest dregs if society. That shit was okay in comparison. The homeless and junkies I met didn't give off such a sad vibe.

Last thing about the clinics is the the lack of hygiene, the cherry on the top. Right before leaving I was asked to take a piss test. Told to sit in lobby and wait to be called. There's a special locked door that people are called through one by one to be dosed in a tiny room. So I went in there and there's a bathroom in there too. Went into the bathroom and there was window that showed everything to the same people pouring and handing out methadone. I was told to piss in a cup and pour cup into bottle and seal it. Pissed in front of lady while she's handing out drugs. Hand her bottle. Sets it down and continues pouring methadone. Lol, disgusting.

I was already extremely pro opioid and legalization, and thought methadone clinics were probably a racket, but holy shit. There needs to be massive reforms, like now. This shit needs to be run so much better. Idk why they can't just do ER morphine pills

Also from watching videos, the heroin clinics in Switzerland and Canada were a million times better than this place.

I won't give exact age but I'm 20s and not old. I haven't hit rock bottom, probably not even close to it, but I'm on the path, and have shittons of debt and prohlems in my life. If a few things happened or were changed (like my living situation), then things could potentially get much worse.
P - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 01:55:20 EST v6N73DW3 No.611008 Reply
I'm probably gonna get on subs so I have a question. The woman I spoke to said if I took subs than I'd meet at the clinic every week, I've heard of this before but I'm not sure what exactly it is, I guess just a check up and a drug test, and if you don't do it then you don't get next months prescription or something.

So my question is, during these check ups do they make you dose subs in front of them? I feel like I remember someone saying something like that?

I'm fine with meeting up once a week and can pass drug tests but I don't want to take 16mg (the dose she said they prescribe daily) once every week.
lol - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 09:02:27 EST oaWRMjn3 No.611011 Reply

I think its common for your first dose of sub to be monitored but ive also heard some places dont, even if they do theyll only do it for your induction. Do you mean like during those bullshit pill counts? I never had them do that. Its way more manageable than say mdone since you wont be taking it in front of someone daily.
lol - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 09:06:36 EST oaWRMjn3 No.611012 Reply

Ah fuck i misread first part, that sounds familiar to what my clinic has with sub patients. Im not so sure how theyll do things because of that. Look for a private sub doc if you can.
P - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 11:30:23 EST tUxaq+JJ No.611013 Reply
Got a call and have an appointment at a local health clinic to meet a doctor. No idea if that means I'm getting prescribed, I didn't ask the guy on the phone cuz I don't think they're allowed to day, but I assume a prescription of subs tomorrow is likely.

Lol only problem is I have only $7 to my name. I asked the guy it insurance would cover all of it and he said he wasn't sure and I might have to pay deductible.

Would I be able to got the appointment and simply pay later? Like get the bill and just pay it off in a month? Or do you have to pay the doc right then? If so I'll just do that.

This is a doctor I'm going to but they work for the mdone clinic I believe. I'm doing this through the mdone clinic, but meeting the doc at a different normal clinic nearby (not mdone).

I'm not too concerned about the sub prescription itself. I'll try getting the coupon or first month free coupon.

But yeah what I asked earlier is will I have to dose in front of docs every week? I understand if you don't know the answer, I'm gonna ask people on the suboxone sub-circlejerk.
dr. m - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 11:30:32 EST LOk04uH3 No.611014 Reply
If for some reason that's too high of a dose for you and you're planning on getting a much higher scripted dose than the one you'll actually be taking, then I'd suggest learning how to either swallow the strip/tablet entirely, or swallow your saliva as quickly as possible. This will make that dose like ~25-33% as effective as normal.
P - Tue, 08 Oct 2019 14:55:02 EST v6N73DW3 No.611021 Reply
That's what I was thinking myself. Let it dissolve and swallow most of my spit but keep a little left. Just gotta practice hiding the swallow.

I wonder how that'd feel. Only 10% bioavailability but the other 90% would turn into norbuprenorphine. Swallowing an 8mg strip/tab would create 3x-6x more norbuprenorphine than normal sublingual would.

Probably wouldn't matter once a week. Only thing I'd be scared of is taking 1-2mg a day and then taking a whole strip and getting high as shit.
Cedric Tillingham - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 00:52:43 EST 5fqU3odd No.611036 Reply
I'd really suggest doing things right and not trying to game the system starting out. Saw your post about shooting subs and that's a very bad idea that I've seen a shitload of health complications arise from. The strips are nasty to inject and will fuck your veins and body within a few months. It doesn't really do anything different than sublingual too. I wouldn't fuck around with swallowing doses either, I used to swallow my 16mg dose from time to time and it would completely eliminate the blocking effect for me. Please just take the shit as prescribed even just for a couple weeks and adjust things from there, don't try use the know-how from the internet to game the system when you haven't tried subs before and don't know how doing things as you're supposed to would work for you. You can be kicked off the program if your pharmacist or doctor notices track marks so I beg you to follow doctor's orders for a couple weeks and then adjust things if you have any problems.
P - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 02:09:11 EST v6N73DW3 No.611037 Reply
I've used subs sublingually for 5+ months straight in the past, took a break and then used for another 2 months, and then after another break another 1 month. I know exactly how they work because in the past I've taken them daily at all kinds of doses. I think I mentioned this a couple times in past posts on this thread.

The strips would be nasty to inject, I will give you that. Even micronfiltering won't clean them up as the gums are water soluble.

But at 1mg bup / 1ml solutions, and filtering through cottom/micron filter, I bet it'd be mostly safe. I haven't seen a case report of suboxone strip injections leading to any real health complications besides fucked up veins. The pills are what fucks people up. That shit would have to be micronfiltered every single time, single injections have lost peoples limbs.

And yeah track marks would be an issue.

Appreciate the concern.
P - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 02:09:48 EST v6N73DW3 No.611038 Reply
>>611037 forgot to mention, subs from the streets. Never prescribed but used daily from those who were.
P - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 02:22:12 EST v6N73DW3 No.611039 Reply

Here's some studies about buprenorphine and naloxone -


There's more too, some about ULDN and the bad effects higher doses habe an analgesia. Animal experiments. Cell experiments.

The naloxone in suboxone 100% blunts the high of buprenorphine, significantly. Even somewhat small doses could really destroy the high.

That still doesn't mean no naloxone will make it euphoric or something. As I said before buprenorphine response mostly comes down to genetics. And holy shit, it's even bigger than I thought -


Having one gene instead of the other can reduce the efficacy of buprenorphine by 50% or even 60%. So it cuts the potential high and euphoria of buprenorphine by half or more (remember that efficacy determines whether something is a super agonist, full agonist, or partial agonist).

This gene is present in 10%-40% of people. I think this gene alone completely explains all the anecdotal shit about buprenorphine. Why half of people think it's complete shit - because it IS complete shit (for them).

I don't think people with this gene should take buprenorphine, definitely not long term. Bup for those people would be much more useful to do a quick taper with. Or simply switch to methadone. For people with the high efficacy gene however bup can be viable as a maintenance drug.
Beatrice Blythespear - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 02:59:40 EST cE9HYBql No.611040 Reply
How much bupe do you guys think someone trying to get off (AUS 1kg+ a day) PST would need?

I bought a 8mg strip and went through days of wd but I didn't know it was a long weekend meaning I'd have to wait another day for it to arrive so I caved and dosed PST again.

Anyway sorry for that vent, I really would like to make the strip last a week and I don;t mind using more on the first couple of days if I cold use less the following. I'm open to IVing it if that will cut down the amount I need, I have access to wheel filters.
P - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 03:08:19 EST v6N73DW3 No.611042 Reply
Sorry for spam, but I just found this out, and it's really interesting. Just as I suspected, the "35% emax" number that buprenorphine gets is actually just an average between two wildly different groups.

So quick background. Emax is how strong it activates the receptor. Fentanyl, methadone, and natural opioid peptides are usually 105%-120% emax. Morphine is about 95%. Buprenorphine is commonly listed as 35%. This is basically the maximum response the drug can have. A baseline maximum is set (usually with DAMGO, an opioid peptide analog), and other mu agonists are compared. Partial agonist is anything under 100%, though it really only starts acting like one when it gets under 70%. This is why buprenorphine can cause PWD, it's 35%.

But I found something interesting. I found the numbers for the emax of buprenorphine in high responding cells and low responding cells (2/1 ratio), and compared them to the response DAMGO and other full agonists got (thankfully they tested a bunch of other mu agonists like morphine on these two receptor types).

After some very basic calculations, it seems the emax of buprenorphine for the high responding gene type is about 55%, and the low responding gene type is 25%. Average them together and you get roughly 35%, the nearly universally listed emax of buprenorphine.

Regardless of protein type tested (which indicates mu agonism), buprenorphine remained at half/50% the emax potency of morphine and DAMGO in the high responding group, and 25% the emax potency of them in the low responding group.

This makes everything make sense. I assume I have the high responding type, and I have always felt that 35% was way too low to explain the agonistic effects.

And on the other hand, the 25% for people with the low responding gene makes tons of sense too. That shit is practically an antagonist. I mean, it is an agonist, but only truly so in opiate naive people (who universally get high in buprenorphine at small doses). But in someone addicted to full agonists, that 25% emax is going to mean that buprenorphine is basically an antagonist, especially so with an agonist still in their system. It'll still have some very slight agonism but it won't be anything truly agonistic at all. 25% emax is the kind of efficacy that truly lives up to the term "agonist-antagonist".

50% emax is when a partial agonist truly starts becoming agonistic. It reaches a point of balance and starts acting more like a full agonist in a lot ot ways, just without the effects of high agonism like respiratory depression.

This all explains why buprenorphine feels like poison for some, while in others it feels like a pretty decent opiate.

Also what's kinda cool is that the difference in emax between genes for stuff like morphine is flipped around (but way closer and nearly the same). This goes for nearly every full agonist. For example, morphines emax is about 5%-8% stronger in the low buprenorphine response gene - this for most agonists, it's flipped on it's head.

And finally, this fully explains why regardless of how someone responds to buprenorphine/their gene type, their experience of full agonists will be unanimous and universal. Regardless of what gene you have and thus what your response to buprenorphine is, you will get fully high on stuff like morphine - there is no pattern for buprenorphine response based on response to full agonists.

So yeah, if you don't like bupe, then that comes down to your DNA. Same as if you like it. Buprenorphine is NOT like morphine, where everyone can easily compare it and effects are universal - buprenorphine has such different effects based on genes that no universal comparison or rules can be set. It'd be as if in half the population morphine stayed the same while in the other half it's emax dropped by half to 50%. This would obviously create such a difference in experience that it'd be impossible to compare.

Again, sorry for spam, but had to share this. Buprenorphine is a totally viable option for those with the high responding gene.
P - Wed, 09 Oct 2019 14:41:02 EST v6N73DW3 No.611050 Reply
1570646462297.png -(143379B / 140.02KB, 1080x2160) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Well. Will you look at that. I have the gene.

I had kinda forgotten that I actually have 23andMe, and I was wondering if it was possible to test which of the N40D genes I had, so I found the snp online and tested my raw data on 23andMe.

The snp is rs1799971, the high responding allele is A/A, low responding is G/G. I am A/A, and thus buprenorphine should be at 50% emax for me.

Rates of G/G in European Americans is around 20%-40%. However, there's an association between G/G and drug addiction. So the rates or G/G in addicta could be much higher.

This doesn't explain everything, but it explains a lot. As well, tons of people have new and unique genes, the average human carries 100 unique mutations + 6 completely new ones that were created when they were still a zygote in the womb.

When doing studies on snp's and addiction the authors found like 30 completely unique mutations of the Mu receptor out of a couple hundres people. So basically this means that every persons response to stuff like buprenorphine is potentially completely unique. The only way to truly tell emax response would be to collect cells from the person and measure mu activation directly, in the lab.
Fucking Bunway - Thu, 10 Oct 2019 16:56:28 EST JafHF3Ou No.611107 Reply
PST to bupe is kind of backwards imo but I’ve seen it work for a couple.
P - Thu, 10 Oct 2019 17:53:33 EST v6N73DW3 No.611108 Reply
I fully agree but it's just too expensive and irregular for me to continue using it so frequently. Kratom is a good replacement but it's disgusting and has a lot of side effects and the euphoria is just lacking sometimes. And pills and dope are out of the question for daily use though if I had the money I'd obviously prefer those.

When I was on bup, even when I paid $20 a strip, I was pretty stable and the buzz was enough to keep me happy. Now that I can get them free it's a no brainer.

Btw I went to the appointment today for bup and they wouldn't induct. Last time I had tea was on Sunday but I mentioned using kratom this week and they want 48 hours between last use and induction. That's fair enough I guess. By the time I induct tomorrow I'll be a yawning teary eyed mess so it'll feel pretty good.

I got a question for anyone who's been through this. When you induct, how long do they watch you? Like how long do you sit there with a strip in your mouth?
P - Thu, 10 Oct 2019 18:37:27 EST v6N73DW3 No.611110 Reply
I shouldn't have but I was in WD and tired. Sometimes shit just slips out.

As well I've somewhat forgotten just how ignorant and not understanding docs and the likes are (especially addiction "specialists"). These people were nice enough but they didn't know the basics of some things.

You can tell kratom confuses them and they have no idea what it is. I didn't try to be a smart ass and give me them a lesson in pharmacology, even though I disagree with them I understand trying to be a know it all is rude and pointless. I simply mentioned taking kratom and the woman said it's synthetic.

But like I said it's probably for the best. I had taken krarom about 7 hours before my appointment so it's probably best to wait a day.
Charles Brambleridge - Thu, 10 Oct 2019 23:36:11 EST +Qq/hEV1 No.611111 Reply
In my experience they watch you for about 5 mins and check inside your mouth, under your tongue etc to make sure the strip has fully dissolved.
lol - Thu, 10 Oct 2019 23:42:51 EST oaWRMjn3 No.611112 Reply

Place i went to with my first sub doc had me sitting for about an hour, came back to check every 15 or 20 mins. Actual outpatient sub docs never made me do that, only one private doc
Henry Femmleware - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 03:08:26 EST 5fqU3odd No.611114 Reply
I've heard of that during the first appointment(s) where they have you wait to see if the dose works for you, and if you need more they increase the dose and make you wait a bit longer to see if the increase works and it keeps going on like that til they find your stable dose. OP sounds really low tolerance if kratom works for him at all so subs are probably a good choice. Hearing that they want something euphoric is sort of the wrong mindset to have in maintenance because I have never once felt euphoria from subs no matter what dose or ROA and the dose is takes methadone to give me a high is 2x-5x my maintenance dose. If you expect to get high regularly off your maintenance meds you're gonna be disappointed. Believing that IV suboxone won't lead to serious health complications is wrong too, I've heard of several people on circlejerk who developed serious heart and lung problems as well as blood clots etc from IV sub, usually from within a couple months of use too. Most people say the duration while IV'd is shorter too and not pleasurable at all, at most it relieves withdrawal quicker and that's it. Not worth the possible complications at all.
lol - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 04:04:22 EST oaWRMjn3 No.611115 Reply

I agree with you on all fronts, never once had a problem with years of IVing different forms of bupe, at least none i can tell, i have had sepsis and many abscesses and infections from street dope though. At the end of the day dude is gonna do what he wants regardless of the potential for future problems, you know how it is being an addict or former addict, we tend to only think of the now instead of down the line, may as well give the guy help. When i first got on methadone i was just using it as a meahs to stay well when i didnt have money and ended up turning into me being off dope a very long time now so maybe he can have a change of mind.
George Crackledale - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 04:45:56 EST 2XMxTFB+ No.611116 Reply
Most rock bottom junkies have free health care Medicaid in the us I went to rehab each time free all my outpatient therapies were free suboxone was free and vivitrol which is how I quit opiates was free 8 months later I work part time and live in a recovery house and I'm still covered by Medicaid and all of my medical stuff is free my rent is free I'm just trying to get myself back together again shit takes awhile all I do now is smoke weed and work the organization to reach out to varies state by state for the different fundings just remember most people arent having the same experience you are because they are already dependent on the system before they become addicted so they inherently have access to resources that your finding prohibitively expensive
DTMO - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 05:43:32 EST iwPQzXLg No.611117 Reply
>PST to bupe

I could not disagree with you more.
Of course it depends on the size of your habit but I got put on 32mg of bupe and it didn't even hold me.
P - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:59:36 EST v6N73DW3 No.611118 Reply
Hello my friends, thanks for all the discussion. I induced today and everything went fine. It had been about 15 hours since I last took kratom, so I was somewhat scared just like I always am when I induce on subs but as always it turned out fine, besides the first 10-30 minutes feeling odd and slightly withdrawal-y. After that is over my body adapts and it begins acting as an agonist.


Yeah you were all right. Basically I did a bunch of more paperwork and then they induced me, she had me hold an entire strip in my mouth for 7 minutes (she set a timer). She wanted me to swallow but said I could spit it out so I did. Then she said I had to sit in the lobby for 20 minutes to make sure there wasn't any complications.

This was a relief because I thought they were gonna have me hold it for much longer. Usually when I use subs I take 2mg and hold it in my mouth and under my tongue for like an hour. This time I held an 8mg for 7 minutes and kept my tongue locked so it couldn't absorb sublingually (and it still worked).

They themselves were super paranoid about PWD and kept asking me to be truthful about opiate use (even though I passed drug screen yesterday for common opiates), because apparently a girl induced recently and had PWD and went to the hospital for 3 days, obviously she probably lied to them about her use so they don't trust junkies saying they're good to go.

I'm willing to lie about kratom because I've induced 8 hours after using it before but I would never lie about a full agonist. That's just not worth it. I've had PWD from naltrexone and that shit is no joke.

Thankfully I didn't have PWD. In retrospect I shouldn't have worried about it but the time I did have it is burned in my mind in memory. And mostly, the fact the staff was all so scared about it and really stressing it, made me anxious about it as I was already in an anxious stare of mind from WD. Thankfully no problems.

I fell asleep in WD last night and woke up in WD and had an agonizing morning getting ready, picking up my script, going to clinic, waiting an hour doing questions and forms, then waiting for it to kick in. But it was worth it and now I have 14 8mg strips for one week.

Feels good. I have a cup of coffee and some food and am just chilling. Tbh the high isn't that strong but it's just the feeling of relief that's nice, it's nice not being in WD and it's nice having the security I have of a free supply. I also have no idea how much I absorbed as I usually let it sit way longer as I mentioned.
P - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 12:41:19 EST v6N73DW3 No.611119 Reply
Hello my friends, thanks for all the discussion. I induced today and everything went fine. It had been about 15 hours since I last took kratom, so I was somewhat scared just like I always am when I induce on subs but as always it turned out fine, besides the first 10-30 minutes feeling odd and slightly withdrawal-y. After that is over my body adapts and it begins acting as an agonist.


Yeah you were all right. Basically I did a bunch of more paperwork and then they induced me, she had me hold an entire strip in my mouth for 7 minutes (she set a timer). She wanted me to swallow but said I could spit it out so I did. Then she said I had to sit in the lobby for 20 minutes to make sure there wasn't any complications.

This was a relief because I thought they were gonna have me hold it for much longer. Usually when I use subs I take 2mg and hold it in my mouth and under my tongue for like an hour. This time I held an 8mg for 7 minutes and kept my tongue locked so it couldn't absorb sublingually (and it still worked).

They themselves were super paranoid about PWD and kept asking me to be truthful about opiate use (even though I passed drug screen yesterday for common opiates), because apparently a girl induced recently and had PWD and went to the hospital for 3 days, obviously she probably lied to them about her use so they don't trust junkies saying they're good to go.

I'm willing to lie about kratom because I've induced 8 hours after using it before but I would never lie about a full agonist. That's just not worth it. I've had PWD from naltrexone and that shit is no joke.

Thankfully I didn't have PWD. In retrospect I shouldn't have worried about it but the time I did have it is burned in my mind in memory. And mostly, the fact the staff was all so scared about it and really stressing it, made me anxious about it as I was already in an anxious stare of mind from WD. Thankfully no problems.

I fell asleep in WD last night and woke up in WD and had an agonizing morning getting ready, picking up my script, going to clinic, waiting an hour doing questions and forms, then waiting for it to kick in. But it was worth it and now I have 14 8mg strips for one week.

Feels good. I have a cup of coffee and some food and am just chilling. Tbh the high isn't that strong but it's just the feeling of relief that's nice, it's nice not being in WD and it's nice having the security I have of a free supply. I also have no idea how much I absorbed as I usually let it sit way longer as I mentioned.
P - Fri, 11 Oct 2019 13:02:46 EST v6N73DW3 No.611120 Reply
Sorry for double post


With regards to kratom use, when I do use it I use like 50g a day, so not an amount to scoff at. This isn't some guy using 10g of kratom a day and thinking he needs subs. This is a guy using pounds and pounds of seeds a day or 50g+ of kratom a day. At one point 75g. I don't even feel the codones anymore unless I take a shitton, and would go through a few miligrams of fentanyl spray a day when I had it.

Not like I have super high tolerance either but it's not nothing.

And regardless, sub dose is gonna be low, not 16mg or even 8mg.

And about IV complications, was that from the pills or the strips?

The pills are obviously bad to inject. Tons of people do it without acute complications (still bad long term), but when it goes wrong it goes reallly wrong and they amputations. I would never inject a sub pill without micron filter.

But the strips? All the ingredients are water soluble. There shouldn't be any particles to clog capillaries, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a case srudy of IV strips going really wrong. IM could probably cause an abscess but IV shouldn't be that bad, especially with 1mg bup/1ml water dilutions. The water soluble gums are not good but at such dilutions I doubt they'd be a problem.


Yeah it turns out I never had health insurance in the first place, somethings gone wrong and I literally had nothing.

So thankfully I got on Medicaid. Now this is how poor addicts get maintenance treatment. Question has been answered. I should be paying like a couple hundred dollara every visit (would be like $300 or $400 by now), plus my 14 strip, week long script cost $120. And I didn't pay a dime. They just handed it to me. All of this completely free. So fucking awesome. I never thought I'd be able to do this. And I should be able to get other prescriptions too, like clonidine and hydroxyzine, for free. I'll probably go to a normal doctor for that, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with getting stuff like clonidine from the sub docs. I like it for a lot of reasons and want to take it daily at night for sleep. I don't want stuff like benzos and will be sure to explain that to them. Though I've heard a lot of docs look at clonidine as a recreational old drug or something which is stupid.

It was a nice feeling this morning watching a dumb episode of Friends in the lobby as the bup kicked in. It'll be nice to finally stop worrying about money.

I'm not sure if any of you relate at all and considering the response I've gotten I doubt so, but besides circlejerk this place is all I got. The suboxone subjerk is just people trying to quit (which is fine).

Bup is definitely a weird drug with weird effects, but it's a suitable agonist and it's free. Going to take advantage of that.
Isabella Hogglechirk - Sat, 12 Oct 2019 06:13:45 EST T2x3Hwnv No.611126 Reply
I think that fear of shooting pills is overhyped. Here poeple shot up morphine and oxy pills all the time and even if they miss or something it ain't that bad. It rarely leads to some serious complications. Now shooting IM instead of IV is another story and definitely not recommended. Micron filters ftw btw.
Martha Cligglewater - Sun, 13 Oct 2019 00:04:18 EST mgGceLac No.611142 Reply
Yea but us rational folk are not just worried about immediate complications from shooting pills, the untold damages of shooting binders and fillers and anything that isn't meant to be getting shot right into your bloodstream are many, I bet, maybe not, but probably best to err on the side of not shooting pills. Or shooting much of anything really, and that includes your street/dnm/itdontmatterwhere dope.
Hamilton Nossleworth - Sun, 13 Oct 2019 13:17:24 EST LpEYRcXR No.611147 Reply
hey all - partly related (board not letting me create a new thread, so apologies if it appears I'm hijacking):

anyone know if suboxone strips can go bad, particularly, can they grow mold? I found a few half strips from a lonnnnnnngggg time ago this week. 2 were tightly wrapped in a cigarette celly, and looked mostly fine (color faded a bit) and they worked just fine. I've got another that was wrapped in it's original, but opened, plastic, and stored in the same location as the other strips, but there are some dark spots on the strip. I'm feeling pretty desperate today, but also afraid to use this because of the discoloration - any thoughts?
P - Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:08:52 EST v6N73DW3 No.611150 Reply
I'm not sure any of the ingredients are a potential food source for bacteria or fungi. There's nothing for them to eat, besides modified cellulose gels which I'm not sure they can eat. Plus it has tons or additives and excipients like citric acid which are potent antimicrobials.

Doesn't really matter though as even if there is toxins they shouldn't be absorbed sublingually. Most bacterial or fungal toxins are hydrophilic and those kinds of compounds don't absorb sublingually.

I personally took a 1/5 or so of a sub pill that was in a ziploc bag for 6 months in the pocket of rotting, moldy shorts that had sat under water multiple times over those 6 months. Was fine. A sub strip in it's packaging that is open will be fine.

It doesn't matter. It hasn't gone bad, there isn't any toxins. It's fine to take. Just make sure it's been 24 hours since last use of full agonist.
Shitting Pittingwater - Mon, 14 Oct 2019 07:18:31 EST AH2aaazO No.611164 Reply
I used some suboxone today afetr waiting 36hrs after my last PST dose
wasn;t long enough because I got some precip wds but they wernt too bad thankfully, mostly just a headache and temperature fluctuation.

I've used 4mg now and honestly still feel a little off but I'm not sure if its from taking the bupe too early or if I haven't used enough (btw 1.5mg was IV'ed)

I hope tomorrow I get high from it since I used to back when I'd use it between H binges, though the effects were greater the more time that passed since my binge.

I actually went through a phase of using bupe in the morning the PST at night and never got PWD, maybe because the bupe was still in my system the whole time or something idk..

Anyway it feels weird and honestly depressing feeling sober, but idk what else to do since seeds are inconsistent.
P - Mon, 14 Oct 2019 13:45:36 EST v6N73DW3 No.611173 Reply
Wow, seeds must last a really long time in some people. For me seeds seem to last maybe twice as long as IR morphine. I'll be high for longer but still wake in withdrawals, just not as bad.

Was your first dose of bup IV'd? People will disagree but that will definitely give some extra withdrawals if you still have morphine in your system.

I mean a dose of 1.5mg buprenorphine only covers like 20% of receptors, so that .4mg naloxone IV'd will have a pretty big effect.

I'm still adapting a bit to buprenorphine. First day I got a buzz from going from withdrawal to well. Next day was less so as I didn't wake up in bad WDs at all, just slight WDs. Been adapting to bup.

Thing is, when I adapt to bup I'm not adapting like most people. When most people say they're adapting to it, they mean that in the beginning it's not getting rid of all of their WDs and after a week or two it begins doing so.

For me bup covers all WDs at day 1. Adaptation for me is when it starts giving me a buzz and any weird anxiety side effects stop.

I've been waking up and taking my dose sublingually, and then drinking some caffeine which for some reason magnifies the effects a ton and makes me uncontrollably nod.

After this week I should start getting some real euphoria especially if I keep the dose low. Gonna begin experimenting with IV in a couple days. It'll be nice to wake up and simply inject rather than hold it under my tongue for an hour (usually takes 2 hours for a buzz to even appear).

And yeah after adapting to bup and getting stable blood levels you can take full agonists daily with it, though it works better if they're shorter acting and if you take the but first. I think negative effects would still happpen if you took a dose of bup a couple hours after using a full agonist.

I've never tried this long term, only read about people doing it. It's probably not a good thing to do but I've never tried it so idk. I do know that switching from bup to full agonists frequently is a bad idea and seems to ruin bup. Like taking bup for a enough time to get high stable blood levels, then doing one day heroin, next day bup, next day heroin, next day bup, etc. It works in the short run but many have reported that it changes your response to buprenorphine in the long run and they don't recommend it. Buprenorphine is an odd drug and the body seems to form a memory to it. People who switch back and forth say buprenorphine's effects are altered and that it starts taking way longer to readapt to it. Like some people are fine switching to bup when they first try it and don't need to adapt but after constant switching for months or years, it starts taking weeks to begin actually lowering WDs and months to even get them a tiny buzz.

It should also be remembered that this happens to a lesser extent even when you take buprenorphine alone. As most of it is metabolized to norbuprenorphine, a potent full agonist that barely crosses the BBB, every time you take buprenorphine you're replacing peripheral full agonist binding with partial agonist buprenorphine binding. This might be why lower doses feel better, because there's less of this switching going on.
Lol - Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:30:13 EST jrcY8Yaf No.611180 Reply
Sounds like you're the only one who's retarded. Lmao. Fucking loser.
Shitting Pittingwater - Mon, 14 Oct 2019 19:18:39 EST AH2aaazO No.611183 Reply
Nah the first 2 mg were subbed then half a day later I IV’ed the 1.5mg in .5mg shots over a couple of hours, I was just trying to chase some sort of high but I guess my tolerance is too big atm.

Depending on the seeds and whether or not I’d used h recently I would wake up in wd but the last day I did them I somehow found god teir seeds and I did a massive dose as a last horay, that’s why I still felt kinda okay for so long. Honestly I kinda knew I hadn’t waited quite long enough but I was in that stage of wd where I didn’t feel terrible but just uncomfortable and unable to sleep.

Anyway I dosed 1mg this morning and I’m still getting headaches but aside from that I just feel normal, maybe a little bit less anxious than usual but no real high.
Eugene Mongerstit - Tue, 15 Oct 2019 11:02:41 EST LpEYRcXR No.611194 Reply
Thanks, much appreciated! I'm actually IVing though because I need to conserve (I dont make a habit of this, but im in a unique position and have no access to any more strips) - in any case, I used some and was perfectly fine, and no precipitated withdrawals thank god, but I also kind of cut around the discolored parts. Now that's all im left with - I'll still use them, but might go with a different ROA for what's left. Managed to be fine on like, maybe 1-1.5mg yesterday, and don't even feel too terrible today so I think I'm close to being in the clear - yay! (gotta love chipping and occasional binges keeping you in perpetual cycles like this, but it beats being homeless and stealing every day for a score)
Doris Gollerchad - Tue, 15 Oct 2019 22:47:50 EST jIcSPLvY No.611200 Reply
If you are on bupe and dose PST (or any opi) after a couple of hours would doing more bupe throw you into precipitated wd or would the bupe already in your system be blocking the receptors anyway?

I used to dose bupe in the morning and PST at night everyday for a while between h binges but I'm terrified of PWD since I've experienced it a couple times now which may because my tolerance isn't so high.
Graham Goodstone - Wed, 16 Oct 2019 04:43:29 EST WNpLx82x No.611203 Reply

No, it's free in the UK. The only charges that you could have is a prescription charge, but only in England and it's £9.00 per 2 week script. In Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales it is totally free.
Graham Goodstone - Wed, 16 Oct 2019 04:59:54 EST WNpLx82x No.611204 Reply

As other posters have said, it's mostly dry mouth that fucks your teeth. Maintenance meds are long lasting, and thus the effects and side effects are long lasting too. Whereas heroin would be mostly over in 4-6 hours, methadone has a half life of anywhere between 20 -50 hours and buprenorphine even longer, meaning that your mouth is dry all the time with them. It's much much less with heroin, oxy, hydromorphone etc.

The really critical bit is when you're asleep, as you tend to breathe though your mouth a lot more, which really magnifies the dry mouth. Try to chew chewing gum when you're awake, brush more regularly, but with a soft toothbrush, use chlorhexidine mouthwash (but only an hour after brushing, it doesn't work well otherwise unless you rinse your mouth extremely well with water)

Whilst I personally haven't tried it, mouth taping would probably help a lot too, probably more helpful for opiate induced dry mouth than any of the fad reasons idiots recommend it for now-a-days
James Fanfield - Thu, 17 Oct 2019 06:38:39 EST NN+wl5+T No.611233 Reply
I'm on methadone and my mouth is so dry at night i have to wake up and drink water multiple times but I brush twice a day with colgate total new formula and floss, mouthwash etc twice or 3 times a day. Haven't had a dental issues in years but some slobs who get too fucked up to brush their teeth blame it on the done.
James Fanfield - Thu, 17 Oct 2019 06:39:25 EST NN+wl5+T No.611234 Reply
here in Canada you just need to peee positive. you can get methadone for free if you're low income.
Hamilton Greenman - Fri, 18 Oct 2019 04:28:14 EST ltkgSqoN No.611250 Reply
If you can afford a heroin addiction, you can figure out how to afford suboxone. It's substantially cheaper. There was a clinic that legit did suboxone for free in sacramento but they stopped that. If you have insurance, call them to get a list of providers and go from there. If not, call around and find a program that works with you. Some of them make you come in and drugtest all the time as well as do gay ass programs, so if you're into that...

Don't get on methadone. Get on suboxone. If you want to stay an addict forever, get on methadone.

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