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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

So how the fuck does one even get on subs or methadone?

- Sun, 01 Sep 2019 22:18:15 EST DOtmUPy9 No.609972
File: 1567390695622.jpg -(55008B / 53.72KB, 343x317) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. So how the fuck does one even get on subs or methadone?
I see all these ex-heroin addicts on suboxone or methadone, talking about how they went from rock bottom to normal with it. And I'm just left wondering how. How can someone with less than $10 to their name, a rock bottom junkie, afford suboxone or methadone? It's astounding. Like I'm actually curious, how is it possible.

When I tried getting on both and called these places up I realized how expensive it was and how much of a racket it is. It seemed impossible for me and I'm not even rock bottom.

First I called a suboxone clinic and they were nice in that they actually ran my insurance to see if it covered any of it (my insurance ended up being glitched or something). They then told me weekly "therapy" /Jew sessions were mandatory. In all it'd be $800-$1200 a month.

Then I tried calling a methadone clinic and was answerwd by some retard Black chick who didn't understand anything. Asked if my insurance could cover any of it or if they could run my account to see if I could get it cheaper. She literally didn't understand it. Responded in grunts and primitive slang. Ended up basically hanging up on me. Then later I tried calling back for a week every day with no response every time I called. Finally they picked up and gave me this retarded price plus tons of "therapy sessions" too.

Fuck man it's depressing. How the fuck do you get on this shit without it being more expensive and hassling than dope?
DTMO - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 22:49:55 EST Ks4d2EmT No.609973 Reply
The government subsidises it at $6/day regardless of dose. It's pretty nice.
Hillbilly Heroin !JhIhjqOq5k - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 23:30:39 EST 7Y8izlLY No.609975 Reply
>How can someone with less than $10 to their name, a rock bottom junkie, afford suboxone or methadone?

The same ways broke ass junkies always get money to score and then once you are on it and not blowing all of your cash on opis its even easier.

Look for some other clinics in your area. All the ones around me charge, on average, $13/day for methadone and an extra $2 if you want suboxone regardless of dosage.

I think you are overstating the amount of people who get on methadone or subs and go "back to normal" I would say the majority of people on MRT or SRT stay on it for years and years or jump around from clinic to clinic because they get kicked out for pissing dirty too many times, missing meetings, etc. Some drive hours EVERYDAY because they have been kicked from the ones around them. Most of them still use other drugs and because of the above reasons you get people on it for years barely dropping down and never getting takehomes when they should only be having to go in once a month. Lots on benzo scripts too which they trade in the parking lots for more methadone.

This is the case more often than not(at least where I've been in the US) though plenty do get off of it and stay clean. Some for a while and some forever.
Eden - Sun, 01 Sep 2019 23:33:23 EST 2hQ1moY2 No.609976 Reply
1567395203177.gif -(1572719B / 1.50MB, 500x350) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
I feel you. The price of the clinic I planned to go to tripped me out. It was about 200 a week, so a review said... I'm uninsured, but I have a bit of money coming (1.6K$) that I want to use to get treated and stabilized that I might find regular work again. Some online sources I've read said that on average it costs 100-125 a month without insurance, so I'm scraching my head. Maybe I read old articles.
lol - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 01:36:26 EST IggaRoSW No.609978 Reply

Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me. Some
nate - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 04:49:20 EST MXwJd0uM No.609979 Reply
Depends where you're from.

In NZ and aus (and most progressive first world countries) it is completely 100% free
Thants !IZgeXR9w82 - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 15:45:43 EST OgX3IMCX No.609997 Reply
>Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me
Thants !IZgeXR9w82 - Mon, 02 Sep 2019 15:48:07 EST OgX3IMCX No.609998 Reply
>Always been below the line in income and always below poverty line so it's always been covered for me
That feeling when my morph + benzos almost tops 100$/per day and the gov't foots the bill
Rebecca Brublingnudging - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 07:22:28 EST mtvrtOdO No.610090 Reply
Meds' values aren't pushed unnaturally and all get generics very quickly in countries not in America. The couple years I lived on welfare, I managed to find a decent 3 room apartment in somebody who had turned his basement into an apartment and I was able to pay for internets and the part of the electricity I paid (everything except the heating and the hot water) for just 300 dollars a month, granted I live kind at the line where civilization ceases in mountiesland, cost of living being pretty and it's not a shitty town either. Difference between rich and poor is much much lesser than down south that's for sure.

I was just getting on treatment, so I had welfare for ill people, 180 bucks more, and the co-pay I had was up to 16 dollars then everything was paid for. I cost the province about 8500, my parents paid about 10 times that in taxes, watch me care about the government's purse. Also when I got back in college and got a job at the same time, they gave me 500 dollars and paid for anything I'd have to for work if they did that kind of thing, thankfully they didn't, 3 nights a week, sundays for 12 hours, I was the gas pumper, cos we still have gas stations with such these days, but I also was the cashier, tiny gas station. Nobody ever knew I was high as fuck on methadone the first year lol. I switched to bupe cos of some side effects of the 'done, which had me need surgery so I was for a month and half on 200mg morphine XR (Kadians) pills because the assholes managed to increase my tolerance, I got to the ORT clinic with a smaller tolerance than when I left...anyway I now pay for my pain clinic meds.

So I guess thank you "state" for using my parents taxes well at the time.
Simon Lightfoot - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 15:55:31 EST yh9RsZAz No.610103 Reply
I live in Ireland so I'm not sure about the differences in cost but I quit by using methadone I bought from friends that were on clinics. It was so much less expensive than my habit. I had been tapering my heroin use down for about 6 months beforehand, at first because circumstances changed and I couldn't afford my habit anymore and then because I just really wanted to quit. That was back in 2014 so I'm not sure if I remember the price correctly but I think 100ml of methadone is €20 on the street here. My habit was heroin #3, brown, which I mostly smoked. I still smoke it rarely, just a handful of times a year. I'm having a smoke tonight.

Just a few words of encouragement for anyone that uses heroin because I can't comment on pills. Quitting like I did is very doable. I thought I'd never get clean and I was surprised at how easy it was for me. There were a few things I think were key to this: I was at a point where I really wanted to stop more than anything, I had a reliable supply of cheap methadone and I started a degree course which was paid for by the government along with a living allowance. I qualified for a Back to Education scheme because I was unemployed at that point. I was very lucky and I'm so grateful for that.

People that go on clinics here in Ireland rarely get off methadone. They keep you on a high dose for a long time and often refuse to lower it. A methadone habit is very hard to quit, much harder than heroin. I tapered myself down and took my last 5ml dose of methadone on the day of my last 1st year exam in 2014. I hadn't even planned to stop. I just woke up and thought I would try not to take it. Same the next day and the day after that. I felt a bit crappy for 2 weeks but nothing I couldn't deal with.

In the beginning it will be a real challenge to only buy methadone from someone you know has gear. Some days that was pure mental torture and probably the hardest part for me. But it got easier and I think giving it up on my own terms like that made me feel stronger and more determined.
Albert Blackford - Fri, 06 Sep 2019 21:17:01 EST 3+1vaCib No.610108 Reply
Probably gave you those whack prices and "didnt understand" you for your shit attitude lol

Shits like 16 dollars a day average. You can find it, try having someone who's not a prick search for you.
DrFeelsGoodMan !psUx8WBMWI - Sun, 08 Sep 2019 02:55:21 EST ZYHpFVwP No.610132 Reply
I called the closest clinic to me, they set up a day for me, and I had to come in, pee, sign some papers, attend group therapy twice a month, two sessions with councilor, and see the doc once a month. If your insurance wont cover it, most seem to charge around 75 first dose, then 75 a week. Its a hassle, but better than being dopesick.
William Webbleville - Sun, 08 Sep 2019 16:12:03 EST h+C8rQun No.610141 Reply
Whatever is the case you all got it good in the US. Here you have bupe pills that even your GP can perscribe you, this was made exclusively with addicts in mind (pain patients get bupe patches and in many cases other opioids in combination with non opi painkillers). In reality it's a pain in the ass, docs straight out lie they can't perscribe it or use other excuses. Surely you also can get on program, but they are only in bigger towns and require you to pick up your dose everyday for first two or three weeks. And of course there is more people than places. And psychiatrists or addiction therapist all expect you to quit job/university, forget about your debts and go into treatment for few months. I know it works for people, but really what are they risking with giving bupe a try?
A hell, just another ramble about post-soviet ways of treating addicts. I'll just stick with darknet for all my needs and hope I don't end up to in prison.
Angus Clommerstone - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 10:35:00 EST mtvrtOdO No.610183 Reply
First 90 days to get my methadone in my province (ca) way back, not sure how it is now. But at least when you get your privileges, which was quick, every month after that i'd get one and then I would just take my orange juice + done once a week and leave with a six pack, but that was 6 months later at being a perfect patient. That's what kept me from the "social" part of it, I only had to see the social worker once, at my request, because back then 7 years ago, we didn't have a doctor assigned to us, it was completely random every time, and there was a doctor with the nickname "the wolf of the SS", what a retarded redhead who took the drug addiction class for extra money only, her nickname was Stagg too, that's pretty german sounding so it was deserved. I complained about her to the social worker and that was it, she was letting me be on a week long benz withdrawal (my psychiatrist forced them to let me keep my diazepam script, the only thing that works for the GAD), thank god, but I had lost my bottle coming back from my gf 50 minutes away in the bus, for real. Once we started to get what I expect they did out of studying the waiting room where mics are definitely present to hear what they say to each other while waiting, and they kind of figured out which doctor I liked best and the guy is amazing, after 6 years of being fucked by methadone side effects, then my teeth destroyed by our shitty lime/lemon extracts filled suboxones, I had perfect teeth, 2 minor cavities, now they all had work done on each and more appear even now that the guy was awesome enough to refer me to the pain clinic and no more bullshit 7 day supplies of suboxone max (they keep it the same as methadone) and regular GP's can't script it in my province, Ontario docs can, if they take the ridiculous 2 hour course from Rickett or whatever their name is.
Phoebe Puggleville - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 20:42:20 EST cbXJ46oj No.610198 Reply
>my teeth destroyed by our shitty lime/lemon extracts filled suboxones
there's no way there's enough acid and sugar in those to destroy your teeth if you take care of yourself. even if there's three times the amount as your average sour candy, it's not like you're taking a bunch per day.
Betsy Padgebury - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:43:33 EST ESCXnZgl No.610202 Reply
Most junkies have rotten teeth and go back to eating normally after stabilizing on subs. Then their teeth break from the food.

Sub programs are not that expensive. Yes the war an opioids is changing the rules in the US for how ORT works. Most places and states mandated some kind of recovery plan above and beyond just getting meds in exchange for cash. Now it seems like its become federally regulated that way. Idk. A reasonable program is going to be about $300 up front for the first few appointments and 1-2 weeks of meds, and meet n greet with a therapist or LCSW. Expect $100 thereafter for doc appointments and $50-100 for your therapy per month. And if you use GoodRX in the pharmacy, about another $125 for generic 30-45 strips a month RX. So you're looking at $300-400 a month. You can bank strips you don't use for when you get kicked or have to transfer. And/or sell them for 10-20 a strip and recoupe money.

The tldr with clinics is that they have the goods and deal them. They have hoops, and decent ones will help you jump through them, even hold your hand and give you lots of chances. Ultimately you must go through the hoops to get the goods. Just how it works, on the street or at the clinic.

I'm dealing with this shit right now. 2+ years on maintenance. No dirty piss, no missed appointments, glowing letters of recommendation from my old doctors as I transferred places because of my job moving/insurance changing. Now some fuccboi investment people are buying up ALL the fucking clinics around here. They are a racket, and they absolutely have program designed to extract as mush money from insurance/medicaid before kicking people out. They, of course, get a fat wad for "new" patients, or patients off of their care for more then 30-45 days. Exactly enough time to get booted, and then reapply, get billed an extra $400 for new patient fees and induction.

Just an example is that they want you to have a job and be showing progress in recovery blah blah blah. The demand that you have a job really. Then they also demand that they can randomly screen you. So they call between 8-10am and you have to piss by 4pm or you're out.
Its a rural-ish area, with not great cell reception. Miss a call? Too bad. Miss the test? too bad.

Ive tried to work with them, get a text sent (there are FREE apps for docs to do this and be in HIPPA compliance) or email sent, etc. Something that's traceable and has them being accountable. I work in Health Care IT at a high-ish level. I know what's in or out of compliance. A text saying please call such and such number and having a patient ID # is in compliance. Leaving a voicemail, and on my desk phone which is monitored, where they read my name, and PLEASE COME IN FOR YOUR DRUG SCREENING, they claim is not a violation. They're trying to justify it being a new state law or some shit. My partner is a licensed and practicing Pharm D (doctorate of pharmacy). There's no such state law.
Betsy Padgebury - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 21:44:32 EST ESCXnZgl No.610203 Reply
This in regards to out-patient treatment from a doc office. ymmv
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:03:58 EST tzRROuin No.610211 Reply
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Like with everything in society you need to
  1. be born into a family that has money

if you fail this step you might as well kill yourself we don't have free health insurance so you won't be getting generic suboxone for free anytime soon. (rich get richer poor get poorer, have fun living knowing a few assholes own 99% of all the wealth and wages are stagnating)
Phyllis Bobblewell - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:00:41 EST mtvrtOdO No.610214 Reply
1568192441405.jpg -(257253B / 251.22KB, 1600x987) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Have you read the rest? I said I had perfect dentition, I didn't even have to have my wisdom teeth removed, I always took great care of my teeth. I wasn't what I would describe to be a either, I just took the easy way to get some opioid everyday for free, which wasn't easy after knowing I had to show up for 90 days at the pharmacy to get my 'done. I stopped methadone because it made me gain 110 pounds in 10 months...

Rotten teeth is mostly associated with meth smokers and crack smokers.

One of my pharmacists told me she's seen a lot of people like me who had great teeth with minimal tiny white fillings ( I had 2), that didn't get worse as I was shooting up hydromorph everyday, it started with suboxone. My dentist confirmed to me, after seeing the box of suboxone and me highlighting "natural and artificial lemon and lime extracts", I verified and the thing has a ph just a bit higher than actual lime.

Also the big insert one has to unfold 50 times to be able to read it, tooth decay was the only side effect under the "Common". It also dries out one's mouth even after the 30-40 minutes of suckling on them and then spitting it out (I did that to prevent swallowing non-absorbed naloxone) I don't fit that stereotype, I typed right out of the gate that I had perfect teeth before Suboxone, at 29 years old, now, well, I didn't lose any, but I have way more mercury filled cheap fillings on my molars because my insurance only covers white fillings for front teeth, canines and upper pre-molars and I'm in a very strong union.

I guess that nurse at the ORT clinic telling me I had "really beautiful teeth" was kind of warning me when we did the suboxone induction thing. At least near the end, we had generics and there were generics that were way less acidic and mr Clean tasting.
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:33:35 EST tzRROuin No.610217 Reply
1568194415797.png -(678307B / 662.41KB, 1018x1018) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>in a strong union

you lucky fuck. i envy you so bad. i have a masters degree and would kill to have a living wage/union job.

Also your teeth only rot if you take subs because of a lack of care, you dont brush every day and you barely drink water because you are never thirsty. if you force yourself to chug a gallon of water a day while on subs your teeth will be fine. i've been on subs for almost 10 years, never had a cavity in my life, teeth and gums never hurt in my life. >>610214
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 05:45:34 EST tzRROuin No.610219 Reply
i got a 10 year 4mg a day suboxone habit which i picked up after being prescribed suboxone for a year long oxycontin dependency.
i kinda hate subs now. the nalaxone is garbage. i dont think it will be too hard to quit since i will effectively do what you did and just say "i am gunna try not taking any today" and deal with the 2 shitty weeks without them withdrawing by either forcing myself to do pushups all day.
DTMO - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 08:14:37 EST WPH+dayt No.610223 Reply
>Your teeth only rot if you take subs because of a lack of care

Nope. The acidic drug preparation that's full of starches and designed to stick to tissues also does a great job of fucking up your teeth believe it or not.

My self care improved when I got on subs if anything, but my teeth went downhill fast.
Hamilton Pockbury - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 16:57:51 EST tzRROuin No.610244 Reply
guess im weird then because ive been taking subs for 10 years and my teeth look fine. a little yellow but fine. maybe you have to take extra care to put the strip right under your tongue so you don't salivate too much or have it interact with your teeth
Eugene Pockforth - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 20:08:06 EST ESCXnZgl No.610252 Reply
bro dawg
I'm 29 as well, and fuck 30 is close around the corner, but I had no dental work prior to being on subs the last 5 years or so (year on, few months off, back, and off etc with 2yr consecutive) and my teeth are exactly the same as they've always been. No recession of gums, cavities, etc. The dry mouth is probably far worse than the "lemon lime orange" tid bit of flavoring.
The thing about pH and pOH is that its a logarithmic measure of how many ions of H+ or OH- are in solution. You can't really have a measure of ions in solution in a solid. Just imo, I've used citric and lemon juice to shoot freebase drugs, and its got a nasty burn to it from the acidity. And I've dissolved half or more of a strip and older octagon pills and never had any kind of burn or vein problems which leads me to believe that the solution of 1mL with 4mg or whatever wasn't very acidic or basic, and not compared to an actual lemon of citric acid. I'm just sayin

Aside, the biggest factor from a quick google is dry mouth, which is what causes meth users and heroin users to loose their teeth on top of lack of hygiene. I'm not even disagreeing that there is vitamin C in the films, but there's less than 90mg. They only weight about 100mg per 8mg film and 10 of that is the med itself. The majority of which is filler and gelatin, which would leave no more than 40mg of vitamin C, which is nothing really.

Im sorry your teeth rotted man
Martin Worthingson - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 21:06:35 EST cbXJ46oj No.610260 Reply
there is no where near enough acid in a sub strip to ruin your teeth if you take care of them, that's just not true.
Albert Pittridge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:46:41 EST mtvrtOdO No.610284 Reply
Doctors and pharmacists telling me their empirical experience. The lower front teeth are those where I needed work on so many times, that's where you hold the damn pill/saliva+suboxone for 20-30-40 minutes depending on what you prefer. It's directly related to Canadian Suboxone, which are white, not orange, I assume the Orange pills were orange tasting and thus had a higher pH. I cannot speak for things like strips, those blotter like 1mg squares would've made getting off bupe easier with the possibility of going down by 1mg, not a possibility here, 2mg and 8mg pills, same with the generics. Bunavail was rejected by our equivalent of the FDA and apparently it aint great and my sub/methadone doc never heard of Zubsolv, although I hear good and bad things about it, plus the pills are apparently tasteless.

Those strips likely aren't acidic like white brand name and some generic canadian suboxone pills...my american opi bros can tell me. I was smoking cigs still then, that didn't help I guess, I stopped the smokes since april 2014, vape very low (6mg) nicotine juice. But that stuff makes me get a lot of mucus in my throat no matter if they're cheap vapes or good ones like say Kangertech.

I'll take those people's knowledge first, don't take it personally. The one pharmacist I like the least at my pharmacy, some holier-than-thou redhead, when I was switching to subs told me, brush your teeth even more, i've already seen 4 patients since Suboxone is paid for by government med insurance, it gives cavities on the long term.

Another reason not to use bupe on the long term but for 3 month detox max, notwithstanding the likely opiate receptor damaging effects of very long use of an agonist, no matter how partial, sticks to those mu receptors more than almost anything else, had to have a script for Abstrals before and after surgery (400ug) with Kadians 200mg (morphine XR) so I would feel actual real opiate effect, after not taking bupe for 52 hours when that happened, man was I glad to get it again.

Now I get it all the time with the generic oxy-CR 60s but man the road I travelled, 7 years later and they managed to get my tolerance higher even after getting off bupe, an Oxy 40 would wreck me before I got in, methadone made me gain 110 pounds in 10 months and suboxone ate away the enamel of my frontal lower teeth like crazy, it's amazing I don't need partial dentures, my dentist's pretty good and patient for sure.

It's different for a lot of people but that's a definite trend, like, we're getting a blood sample taken every 6 months for liver enzymes, because bupe fucks with some people's liver so bad, apparently, 2 girls who did not drink with their bupe told me how quickly they went back to 'done and one since she had a bunch of pain issues, even more than me, was telling me that health canada was looking up her application for pharma heroin ampoules, both ended up in the ER with their liver extremely large and painful, I thought it was a rare thing but it's more common than I thought.

Yet when I spoke about this years ago around here 'merkins were all "wow, that's nonsense, they likely were lying and looking for other stuff"..which is kinda dumb, I had to go to the clinic during a nurse strike, so the nurses did the very minimum and didn't take the sample rightt away and gave me 3 or 4 times over 2 years (it was a 3 year pressure means strike) a sheet for bloodwork like my GP would give me give me with all tthe things one can be checked for with boxes checked and only one liver enzyme test was checked, everything else was blank, so it's def real.
Albert Pittridge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 11:54:15 EST mtvrtOdO No.610285 Reply
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I made clear that strips do not exist here...in my first post in this thread and how it pissed me off.
Martin Worthingson - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 14:38:31 EST cbXJ46oj No.610292 Reply
strip or otherwise is totally irrelevant, you couldn't miss the point harder if you tried (and you seem to be).
you can eat sour candy every day and be fine but apparently a single sub is enough to fuck them? people wake up and drink entire glasses of orange juice and grapefruit juice everyday of their lives and somehow manage to not have their teeth fall apart. again, there is nowhere near enough acid in a single pill, strip, lozenge, what the fuck ever, to ruin your teeth on their own.
Cornelius Brerringchidge - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 16:52:48 EST PlbmM6K2 No.610298 Reply
In US states with big cities Methadone MAT is usually cheap or free. Sub MAT is usually out of pocket and expensive but less expensive than a heroin habit. Best way to get off heroin is sub maintenance for 3 - 5 days starting at 8mg or less titrating down to nothing. And before you take ur first sub wait at least 24 hr from last heroin dose especially if it was fentanyl cut or you'll be sick af. Find a sober support network while in this process and go to meetings/get a sponsor and go through steps. Seems to work for others I'm currently in the process about a month sober. I had 40 days a few weeks ago but wasn't doing recovery work and relapsed on crack, heroin, and alcohol. You can do it. Fuck long term MAT I was on subs for 8 years and shit is a ball and chain around ur life and I just used in between doses on top of drinking smoking weed everyday. I felt "normal" cause I wasnt dope sick but I was still fucking miserable. Not to mention it kills ur sex drive.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:13:24 EST mtvrtOdO No.610313 Reply
>single pill
>6 years 1/2 of stuffing one eight and two 2's, then one eight and a two, one eight etc..

You seemingly do no want to even get it. You've never seen a Canadian Suboxone. Dentists also hate grapefruit and orange juice in the morning, it scrapes the enamel faster than if not. Over time is key here, and there was plenty of time, every fucking day, 1600 days+ of overly acidic pills one has to suckle on under their tongue right at the surface contact points where I had so many fillings ever since I got on Subs (thankfully i'm out now). My teeth ain't rotten now, they just have tons of fillings, white or the mercury crap, the thing is proven by Rickett itself to possibly do that.

In the end, the docs and pharmacists know better than you, that's it. I also got someone else ITT that's had the same exact issue as me. Take a shot or something, you're strung out and lashing out.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:24:01 EST mtvrtOdO No.610315 Reply
This. This guy gets it and not because he's even had the same issue as me, but because he isn't being an overly defensive lil' bitch, for what? Are these other guys full of Rickett stocks in their portfolios?
William Fugglelock - Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:44:24 EST cbXJ46oj No.610319 Reply
>Dentists also hate grapefruit and orange juice in the morning, it scrapes the enamel faster than if not
that was my point, if people can drink that super acidic stuff every day and still take care of their teeth then two or three pills a day should be manageable. I'm sorry that I came off as lashing out, none of this really matters and I was unnecessarily rude, as well as off topic and unhelpful. I apologize for my rude behavior and general unpleasantness.
Nicholas Geckleforth - Fri, 13 Sep 2019 01:07:26 EST mtvrtOdO No.610323 Reply
Alrighty then, as long as you acknowledge that after a couple years of constant 12mg, the surface contact with my teeth was something to consider. Film would be great, I'd just place the thing on the inside of my mouth and suckle on, no pill material touching the teeth at all, they're on advantage I've read about.

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