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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Suboxone waiting period

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- Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:15:33 EST DLQIvolK No.614500
File: 1585484133837.jpg -(106924B / 104.42KB, 890x960) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Suboxone waiting period
TIPS PLEASE, So I have taken a 2 month break from my daily hydromorphone use with the aid of suboxone (16mg daily). Before this break I had amassed quite a tolerance to hydromorphone (18mg daily on average). Now as of recent I have acquired 90 mg of hydro, AMD was looking forward to enjoying a nice nod. So being the impatient person I am I waited 25 hrs from my last suboxone dose and tried to nasally ingest 30 mgs but to no effect obviously.

SO my 2 questions are - how long do I have to wait from my last suboxone dose (4mgs day 1) to get full enjoyment from my expensive drugs

Two- will the 30 mgs I took have added to my tolerance, and is the idea of breaking my 2 month break virginity a pipe dream now unless I wait another 2 months?

Just as a post note I usually go intranasal, but have access to clean rigs, I know it's a step up that I have stayed away from, but I wanna make the most of this as it will be a long time until I come across this stuff again...do you guys think if I just wait like a solid 3-4 days I can use intranasal and get high off 12 mgs like I used to when I 1st started?
>>
Edward Giddlekon - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:21:46 EST nWHA+Ge8 No.614511 Reply
>>614496
you mentioned you took 16mg suboxone as well as 4mg of suboxone, so I'm a little confused on how much you have in your system. If you were taking 16mg daily for a period of time, you're going to have to wait until you're withdrawing to feel anything otherwise it's basically a waste, 16mg will stay in your body a long time man, maybe up to a week!

If you were taking 4mg a day, it'll still probably take 2-3 days (could be more) before you'll start to feel any serious withdrawal symptoms and you'll be able to feel the any sort of opiate. Long story short, suboxone stays in your body for a long time, if you're on a maintenance program, don't try to get high, you'll waste money, get angry at yourself and feel stupid.
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Matilda Femmlemut - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 00:22:15 EST DLQIvolK No.614520 Reply
>>614511
yeah I am on a maintenance program. to clarify I was on 16mg suboxone for about a month and a half, then for about 3-4 days tapered from 8-4-4-4- then nothing for now 2 days. I am not familiar with suboxone withdrawls, the doctors were vague and I had never been on it for any great period of time in the past. I am however very acquainted with withdrawls from pills. Will the suboxone withdrawls be as bad?

And yes I did already waste money, but I seem to be set on clearing the bupe out so I can get high one last time as I still have 60mgs (lol you know how it is). I am starting to feel the restless legs, but should I expect a really slow drawn out withdrawl process, Cumulating in the diharrea and sleepless nights in between 3 days to a week after my last dose? Or will the bupe stay bonded to my brain for 3-7 days, staving off withdrawls, then after the last of the bupe is out of my system (possibly 7 days later) the full effects of withdrawl kick in leaving me in that state for an additional 3-4 days?

Tl:dr, is the bupe mostly out of my system as soon as I feel withdrawls kick in, or will there still be like 50% of my receptors blocked?
>>
Matilda Femmlemut - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 00:24:35 EST DLQIvolK No.614521 Reply
Oh sorry, one more question for anyone who has fooled around with this, Will the bupe have effected my tolerance to hydros? or can I wait through the withdrawls and get high as if I had taken a 2 month t-break?
>>
Barnaby Mummerdock - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:19:50 EST 29QbCoeq No.614538 Reply
>>614521
yes and no. bupe is only partial agonist, other opis are full agonists, so no matter how much bupe you take it wont tickle receptors like opis can. after a couple months you should be able to enjoy a handful of hydros
>>
Barnaby Mummerdock - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:21:11 EST 29QbCoeq No.614539 Reply
>>614520
>Tl:dr, is the bupe mostly out of my system as soon as I feel withdrawls kick in, or will there still be like 50% of my receptors blocked?
You might feel uncomfortable for a week before youre actually in wd, after daily bupe. will take at least 2 weeks to clear your system. id wait 3-4 min if you want to be bupe free
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Martha Pockville - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 20:04:14 EST xDQeLAHt No.614544 Reply
>>614539

OP here. yeah looks like I'm going to have to exercise patience. I tried everything including breaking my needle virginity and it got me fuck all. welp w/e I worked hard to get clean AMD I should probably enjoy the fruits of that and keep my hydros until I'm way clear of the bupe. sucks, but what are you gonna do
>>
Martha Pockville - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 20:05:43 EST xDQeLAHt No.614545 Reply
>>614500
last question, can you intramuscular inject hydro with a insulin needle? seemed to be hard to hit a vein on my own...
>>
Frederick Fuckingworth - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 20:07:23 EST nWHA+Ge8 No.614546 Reply
>>614520
Ah okay, I tried to detox off of suboxone last week. I was on 8mg and over the span of a few months (have been on maintenance for years regardless) and came down to 0.2mg (changed onto subutex for the last 2 weeks, so no naloxone) then jumped off. Days 1 and 2 were very emotional, by day 3/4, the withdrawals properly started coming in, restless legs, no sleep, body pain, watery eyes, no energy (low dose valium and weed helps for sleep obviously). The worst part for me was the mental torture, you'll cry, feel hopeless, then you'll feel fine, then you'll crumble back down and I imagine that'll eventually turn into PAWS when you start to physically feel better but really, it could be 4-5 days before you really start to feel the first signs of true WD.

You're probably not going to go through full blown withdrawal, but you're going to be going through some shit that's unlike regular opiates. I got to day 7 and went back to my doctor for a script because I realised I'd probably relapse trying to detox at this point with the COVID-19 and being isolated from the ones I love, now I'm back to normal and feel good.

It's just a shitty situation trying to take drugs on top of Suboxone in the hopes of getting high. If you really want to feel something, you'll have to ride it out until you can feel it leaving your body, but unfortunately I'm not really sure how long it takes to properly leave your system. Suboxone doesn't fuck around with your tolerance so much as it stops you from getting high and really, stays in your system. I hope this helps. best of luck man.
>>
m - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:32:51 EST vgHBTjMI No.614551 Reply
>>614546
Yeah this, I didn't reply to OP cuz I had already answered his question on another thread on the first page. I dont understand why most addicts refuse to believe it takes at least 7-14 days CT if you take 8mg+/day for years. It's like they only want to hear what's convenient for them.

If you're not taking 4mg/day subbed or 3mg snorted/plugged per day or less, you need to taper down to 4mg/day for at least 2-3 weeks before you can even dream of using effectively. Even after 6 fucking days, 25% of ONE SINGLE DOSE can still be in your system. What the fuck do people think will happen when they're taking 16mg or 24mg or some crazy amount daily for weeks or months? Also, doses of say 2mg active in your system still plugs up like 20-35% of your receptors, so it just doesnt work.

This is why bupe is so effective for treatment. Getting high when you've been on 16mg/day for 6+ months is such a fucking mission that it's not worth it. Take it from me, as I'm currently going through micro taper WD while getting back down to 4mg snorted/boofed per day split into two 2mg doses.

>tolerance buildup/reduction on bupe

It totally depends on your daily dosage, and what your DoC and dosage was. If subs ever get you high, chances are your tolerance has only gone up. Personally for me, PSY+supplemental codeine has worked in the past only because I stuck to ~3mg snorted or 4mg subbed per day, used ULDN, and waited 2.5-3 days to use even when on such a low dose.

>shooting hydrostatic

No OP, just no. Shooting hydros and codeine causes anaphylactic shock and can kill you. Dont ever IV again without using a 0.22ug micron filter and a new sterile needle each time, using one to suck up dirty shit and a new one to inject. Having these rules makes the difference between endocarditis and no problems.
>>
m - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:33:50 EST vgHBTjMI No.614552 Reply
>>614545
And never in your life IM pills dude, what the fuck. It's beyond horrible for you. Only IV with microns, and only IM using ampules made for injection or I guess "pure" RCs
>>
m - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 21:39:44 EST vgHBTjMI No.614554 Reply
>>614551
Ugh dude I hate autocorrect. It just doesnt stop.

>PSY= PST
>hydrostatic= hydros

Nb
>>
lol - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 23:06:54 EST oaWRMjn3 No.614555 Reply
>>614545
I'm hoping you are shortening hydromorphone to not hydro and that you aren't trying to shoot hydrocodone because that will straight up kill you and at minimum hospitalize you. IM in my opinion should only be done with medical grade stuff. It's probably funny coming from someone who exclusively IVed for so long but I've never had good experiences with IM, at worst it's an easy way to get an abscess and infection and at best it's just a really lame version of IV with no rush.
>>
James Handerspear - Tue, 31 Mar 2020 04:16:17 EST 5zZZR5+M No.614556 Reply
OP here, just for an update you guys are right 100% about the withdrawls. I did get super emotional and shit, it was weird and like yall are saying really not worth it for the one time of getting high before going back to my sobriety. I always stayed away from IV, like even after years of use but I kind of had it in my head I would buy a few hydromorphone (30mg) take a few days off subs, and get real high since its quarentine and I'm not doing anything else, and theoretically I should have a low tolerance. however after buying them and trying to snort I quickly realized that was no bueno so being fixed in my actions I decided I could maybe blast through the subs with IV. That's kind of why I had all these stupid question as I am not super familiar with that side of things. I tried poorly to do this last night and felt high (I should be on day 4-5 now without suboxone) and i think the hydro I've been snorting has staved off withdrawls a bit, but yesterday I got into a huge fight and was really emotionally off. this isn't good as I have been clean for awhile and I think it's clear I am dabbling again.

so either way, being in like day 5, and 15mg insuffulated is still not getting me high, am I in for like a month or two clean off subs till I can get high off of 12mg again?

if I ever try to IV again I will go by a harm reduction clinic qnd get enough proper gear to do it safely....word on the street was like 3 days off subs and you shld be good, but I'm thinking if you've been dedicated on it for weeks/months it maybe takes a week or two....so I'm not sure if it's worth it or not especially because I dont wanna make this shit my life again, subs arent actually that bad to be on, and the w/ds from subs seem to kinda suck....idk, do you guys think I could wait a solid week off subs and be O.K to get stoned? or should I save my shit and eventually over a span of months wean down my suboxone intake and then finally maybe get high? I'm just worried I wont be able to get more in the future/i kinda wanna just cut those ties completely....
>>
m - Tue, 31 Mar 2020 11:45:25 EST vgHBTjMI No.614563 Reply
>>614556
Focus on stabilizing on 4mg/day for at least a month. That way, when you want to get off subs completely, it will be much more reasonable WD. Also, if you can manage to stabilize on 4mg or even better 2mg/day, you can somewhat easily stop using for 2-3 days, get high 1-3 times, and get back on subs.

If you're ever serious about getting clean, switch to naltrexone, but not a full 50mg per day. Something like 1mg/day should be enough. It will actually keep you clean, as well as disinterested in booze.
>>
>>
Edward Fablingspear - Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:06:06 EST B6RQr5vi No.614570 Reply
>>614556
Sweet baby jesus how did this thread get this far before someone told him to stop putting Hydrocodone up his nose???

OP! STOP PUTTING HYDRO UP YOUR NOSE! Even if you weren't on subs it wouldn't work (except for the drip). Just take them orally. God damn.>>614556
>>
Edward Fablingspear - Tue, 31 Mar 2020 23:06:26 EST B6RQr5vi No.614571 Reply
>>614570
lol ignore me Im high I thought I read hydrocodone. carry on nb
>>
Kim Il Sung - Mon, 06 Apr 2020 20:33:29 EST MWqFdQZi No.614647 Reply
>>614570
well shit... dont snort Hydromorphone either PLUG THAT SHIT (no but seriously)
intranasal hydromorphone is only like 20% IIRC !
>>
m - Mon, 06 Apr 2020 21:14:38 EST vgHBTjMI No.614648 Reply
>>614647
Hey bud, that's just not true according to some of the more widely accepted albeit older data sets. Hydromorphone is traditionally marginally more efficient via nasal than rectal, the only opioid I personally known to achieve this, though I believe said studies used pharma grade nasal solution.

Tl;dr nasal and rectal are basically equal in quality, and while nasal is supposedly marginally better at least in small to moderate doses, I wouldn't be surprised if rectal solution consumption > dry powder nasal consumption.

Rectal and nasal are both ~50-55% depending on dry vs. solution, supplements added, etc.
>>
m - Mon, 06 Apr 2020 22:09:37 EST vgHBTjMI No.614650 Reply
1586225377238.jpg -(89903B / 87.80KB, 736x445) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>614647
>>614648

I know this isn't the optimal pseudo-"source" and is simply a chart that's circulated on the web for over a decade, but this image is definitely a solid starting point. I've always been frustrated that there isn't a totally comprehensive BA chart with every remotely common opioid as well as every remotely common RoA listed on the same chart. It would be even nicer if it included at least the various basic stimulants, benzos, maybe barbs, z-drugs, gabapentinoids, etc. etc. as well as their rough street clandestine manufactured counterparts.

We should make a new thread to discuss somewhat cutting edge "bro science" on stuff like tolerance reduction, maintaining slower tolerance growrth rate, reducing neutrtoxicity and posssibly cardiotoxicity, and much much more, such as how to use ULDN and titrate it responsibly.

I'm finally up to start such a thread since I've got my d-amph again, but I'll need serious support from the sharper posters out there, including you Kim II Sung and others.
>>
Kim Il Sung - Tue, 07 Apr 2020 00:32:15 EST MWqFdQZi No.614656 Reply
>>614648
ooooo I stand completely corrected! Very very interesting! that is quite unique.
and 50+% is quite a bit more than I ever thought! nb
>>
Kim Il Sung - Tue, 07 Apr 2020 00:36:54 EST MWqFdQZi No.614657 Reply
>>614650
oh god yes yes I remember this chart that's funny. and I would absolutely love to take part in that thread no doubt. That sounds like a fun idea! and with all the time in the world now that everyone's in hibernation
>>
Alice Ficklelock - Sat, 11 Apr 2020 20:25:41 EST 5zZZR5+M No.614770 Reply
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>>614563>>614563
I think this is the advice I will use, I've been slowing down my suboxone intake to roughly 4-8mgs a day. found out I can sell the 8s for around 20 bucks a pop too so theres a perc to slowing down aswell. Starting today I will moderate my dose to 4mgs in the morning and 2 at night as needed. after about 15 days (I've been going slow for about a month) I will try to take a day off, followed by 4mg the next day, repeat that for a week then try stepping down to 2mgs. after a week of this is all is going well I'll score some 30s and take 2-4 full days off and try getting high. I'll report back here and tell you guys how it works as I cant really find any info on this particular type of usage. guess I'll be the gunei pig. it's just while the corona virus is in town I wouldnt mind nodding out once or twice. but my life has improved greatly by kicking the habit and I dont want to go back to everyday usage (yeah I know its slippery out here).

as for the people telling me to inject I'm well aware of the bioavailability and dont really care, I dont wanna start shooting up and pick up all the shit that comes with it, especially since I only wanna get high a couple times. that moment of desperation was foolish of me.

last question, does anyone know if the tolerance to suboxone will affect my tolerance to hydros? or since I've been clean off dope for over 2 months should I be basically home free to get high off 12mgs again?
>>
m - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:02:06 EST vgHBTjMI No.614852 Reply
>>614770
No, your tolerance is 100% not the same as if you had been sober of opioids for 2 months. Your tolerance is very much intact from a whopping 12mg sub per day. Also, reread what I suggested. I didn't say a semi rapid taper down to nothing. You need to stabilize, really stabilize on 4mg or less per day, as in for a full damn 4-6 weeks to only take 4mg per day or less. Then you can do something like 3mg one day instead of the normal 4, then just 1-2mg next day, then wait ~36 hours after that 1-2mg dose to get high.

The key is that full 4-6+ weeks of bot having taken any more than 4mg/say, especially if you can stick to 2-3. The whole taper down thing doesnt work because its backlogged as fuck. It can easily take almost a month to full stabilize, meaning no excess bioaccumulation.
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m - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 01:36:30 EST vgHBTjMI No.614853 Reply
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>>614718
I'm having a bit of trouble assembling the marvel super team because of things I've said and done like 5 months in the past on 200mg addy and 10mg etizolam per day, lmao. 5 months might as well be 100 years to me, but for others it's a system psychoanalysis followed by binary social inclusion/exclusion.

So I guess it's just you, me, and NAC guy. At least he's an actual chemist. Hit me up on discord and we'll get to work. If I offer you 30 whole cents worth of potentiators for absolutely free because I care about you as a person, but present it under the guise of us pooling cash because I know you can't afford anything but didn't want to make that apparent to the public, please let me know ahead of time if such generosity makes you uncomfortable. At this rate, there won't be anybody on this board left to even work on our google doc.

I've been focusing mostly on the magic of NAC and how it can both reduce addiction pathways and supposedly reduce APAP damage by up to 97% when taken within ~8 hours of an APAP overdose, though via IV. This stuff is something else.

We've got so many topics to cover, and so few bright minds even interested. What a shame man. Message me on what you'd like to to focus on so we can dole out different sections.
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Cornelius Ganninghall - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 20:29:53 EST 5zZZR5+M No.614858 Reply
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>>614852

Ok, fair enough. so I've heard the word stabalize thrown around quite a bit, what does this mean chemically and why is it so important? Are you kind of referring to the amount of backlogged drugs and the repercussions of going cold turkey? I am currently trying to stick to your outline and am currently on 6 mgs per day. But what would the difference be between taking say 6 mgs one day and 12 the next,(say in week 2) only to follow through for the rest of the time period? would my time re start after the 12mg dose?

note: part of this sentiment to use comes from me throwing out lots of my contacts in the name of sobriety, and I feel like I may not be able to find the same drugs in the future with the same reliability. I think the best thing to do will be to acquire a decent stash while I can and have intentions of being in it for the long haul and wait until the subs are truly out of my system to indulge....

If any of you have a discord I would be more than willing to hop on in the name of prompt responses, places like circlejerk just arent as trustworthy as you guys
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Dextrolord - Thu, 23 Apr 2020 07:39:34 EST p5Fo+QLl No.614963 Reply
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>>614500
I was about where u were with dose when I jumped up to shooting it... it's a waste of drugs now to do my opis any other way most of the time now. And getting off slamming 20+mgs every night was a nightmare

Dont do it but I'm also jealous I would beat everyone in my house purple and bloody for a months supply of dillies or panas right now fam.

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