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Opiate usage worsen natural endorphins

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- Fri, 14 Aug 2020 04:21:47 EST 7h33oZRL No.616764
File: 1597393307705.png -(837268B / 817.64KB, 768x512) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Opiate usage worsen natural endorphins
is it True that opioid/opiate usage reduce the quality of the natural endorphins/opioids in the brain? (mostly kratom usage not the pills) or is this just propaganda?

Also using this analogy for benzo/gaba substances, does long-term benzo usage reduce the quality of the natural "gaba signal" ... (if you Know what Im Trying to say...) or is this only the case for opioids/opiates like heroin where ones natural endorphins 'stop being used' since now the heroin is the main source for it ...

but is it just propaganda that the natural endorphins get worse with opiate addiction or is it true.. and is there a good source showing all the facts about this.

When/how long are the natural endorphins restored then when quitting those opioid drugs ?
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Phineas Sondleman - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 05:05:07 EST 29QbCoeq No.616765 Reply
>>616764
mostly your brain has more endorphin receptors post opi abuse, and normal endorphin production doesnt scale up, so you feel like you're missing something always, or is at least one reason why opis would feel good(craving), even if you learn to cope with your own endorphins. However LDN helps fix this greatly
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Ian Ningergold - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 07:01:39 EST O5uX90f5 No.616767 Reply
>>616765
Interesting, more endorphin receptors? I wish you had anything to back that claim.
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Emma Focklechutch - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:43:57 EST 5W6KIQkA No.616771 Reply
>>616769
>basic biology and chemistry look it up
So opiates creating more endorphin receptors is just some bullshit you made on on the spot, gotcha.
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Emma Focklechutch - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 15:41:34 EST 5W6KIQkA No.616773 Reply
>>616772
There's literally no source backing that up, that wojack actually describes you as you try to appear smug, nb.
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m - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:26:34 EST jv0zZnW9 No.616775 Reply
1597436794140.jpg -(293043B / 286.17KB, 1500x1000) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>616765
I think what the guys are attempting to say is that long-term, persistent consumption of basically any and all exogenous (originating outside the body) opioid agonists slowly causes receptor desensitizing, due to down regulation of the mu opioid receptor sites among other, potentially more complex mechanisms of tolerance buildup and the establishment of physical dependence. In addition, the more exogenous opioids you put into your body, the less endogenous opioids your body naturally produces (in an attempt to reach a pharmacological equilibrium/homeostasis, as your body perceives your external opioid consumption as if your body is accidentally producing "too many" opioids and thus heavily cuts back on making its own).

When you quit/take a tolerance break, your external origin of opioids somewhat abruptly ceases to exist, which really confuses your body. Not only are you artificially used to producing very limited levels of endogenous opioid, but also your receptor sites are again heavily downregulated/generally desensitized, further worsening the overall problem.

The one specific aspect that Pineas Sondleman scored full points for, however, was his focus on use the of naltrexone, specifically LDN (low dose naltrexone, or approximately around ~0.5-3mg of nltx, though the dosage range of LDN can vary from as low as ~200-250ug/0.2-0.25mg, to as much as ~4-5mg of nltx) if you are 100% guaranteed to be totally cleared of active opioids/major active opioid metabolites (if you have any degree of physical dependency), or even smaller doses of naltrexone called ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone, or between ~2-100ug/0.002mg-0.1mg nltx slowly titrated upward over time taken orally) if you're still physically dependent and have active opioids in your system (yes even kratom).

ULDN is best used to both actively reduce your current physical dependency and the rate of dependency/tolerance increase whilst in active, consistent opioid consumption. It also can significant reduce future withdrawal symptoms if taken for at least a few weeks alongside your opioid of choice for tapering off the opi, though the longer you use ULDN the more effective it generally is.

Save LDN for people/situations where you won't be using opioids of any kind for a while, as taking an opioid after a large LDN dose of nltx (for some people even just 25ug will block them up, though IME it more commonly starts happening around ~40-60ug/day, and becomes somewhat noticeable for the vast majority of people when taken at doses of ~80-120ug/0.08-0.12mg and above.

Take ULDN either once or optionally twice a day if taking a non-bupe/suboxone opioid of any kind (I suggest 1x/day first, starting at 2ug/day and increasingly only 1-2ug/day until you reach 10-15ug. From there, stick with 10-15ug/day for at least a week or two to try to stabilize your dose.

Most people won't really want to go above ~20-25ug/day full nltx ULDN dose (again assuming non-bupe user).

For bupe users, you generally want to dose 2-3x as after, as only the naltrexone itself has a binding affinity superior for buprenorphine, while the major primary metabolite of naltrexone (which normally has a much, much longer duration of action/half-life when compared to normal naltrexone) stronger than bupe itself. As a result, the perceived ULDN effects only seem to last a few hours (maybe 3-6hr) when compared to ULDN's overall ~12-24+ hr duration of effect when consumed by non-bupe users (nltx half-life is only 4hr, compared to 6B-Naltrexol's ~13hr half-life).

Remember that naltrexone has a supposed oral bioavailability (efficiency) range of a whopping 800% (BA range of 5-40%), meaning say 10ug orally for one person could be as potent as 80ug oral nltx for another person. That's why you've got to go slow, have loads of patience, and remember that with nltx, within reason less is always more.

Again, ~10-25ug/day seems to be the sweet spot for most moderate to moderately high dosage opioid users (assuming non-bupe). For bupe users, pretty much take the non-bupe dose and take that at least 2x/day, roughly 12hr apart, one dose alongside/a few mins before your opioid and the other dose ~12hr later. 3x/day dosing might work best for some bupe people. When on people, taking 25ug nltx 3x/day every 8hr felt just slightly more effective/potent as when I was taking 25ug nltx once a day alongside strong PST.

If you take a super high dose of a very long duration opi (specifically strong PST, PPT, high dose methadone, or perhaps high dose oldschool opium), then you may benefit from SLOWLY pumping your daily nltx dose as high as ~40-60ug/day when still wanting to get somewhat high, or maybe even ~75-100ug/day if intending to rapidly taper off in the next 1-2 months.

If you have any questions, let me or other posters know. I'm the mod on the subleddit for ULDN (/r/ULDN), but it's a pretty barren sub. I just grabbed it before some other clown ruined it.

This shit isn't perfect, but it's a goddamn miracle. Order some 50mg naltrexone tablets from a reputable clearnet site today and make some volumetric solutions ASAP.
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Emma Focklechutch - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 17:01:48 EST 5W6KIQkA No.616776 Reply
1597438908809.jpg -(20357B / 19.88KB, 247x232) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>616775
No, he absolutely stated that opiates create new endorphin receptors which is total bullshit, while only providing a lousy wiki link about abstractely related stuff.

Retard alert

Retard alert
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Reuben Cottingdale - Fri, 14 Aug 2020 22:28:10 EST 29QbCoeq No.616780 Reply
1597458490351.jpg -(75890B / 74.11KB, 863x767) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>616776
wiki link not "ME"

Wasn't going to reply again but Dr M doesn't even know this?? tho bless him for pimping uldn
https://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-opiate-receptors.htm
Are you so dense you can't search this or are you some porky queer who needs everything delivered ?

Mind you the notion that drugs work on 'receptors' is entirely a THEORY, inb4 muh science theater 9000
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Priscilla Worthingwell - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:03:11 EST gJiH/Sd8 No.616784 Reply
receptor desensitizing in regards to Benzo/gaba substances, how does long-term use of benzo worsen the natural receptor bullshit. applying "receptor desensitizing" to benzo (instead of opiates), what receptors would get affected and how would normal receptor become worse due to external influence to the gaba receptors?

What withdrawal / addiction is worse, long-term benzo or say tramadol/subutex use?
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Augustus Dremblemore - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 08:29:31 EST HRj7vDap No.616786 Reply
>>616780
Yes, I can absolutely see that you havent put anything on the table yet, stop trying to damage control so hard, you said something false and you've been called out, had that piece of info been true you would've shoved it in my face long ago.

Stop being a literal underage, nb
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Augustus Dremblemore - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 08:32:55 EST HRj7vDap No.616787 Reply
>>616780
Btw theres no way a hotel would do that, she totally pulled out her lipstick and did it for the likes lole
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Frederick Goodworth - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 15:06:40 EST OHIHxMID No.616799 Reply
>>616787
Yup my thoughts exactly. Notice how it has more laugh reactions. I think it’s a joke and most her friends realized that, some probably thought not funny and people that thought it was for real sad.
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Frederick Goodworth - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 15:08:13 EST OHIHxMID No.616800 Reply
>>616799
Oh the last one is actually a like not the sad emoji. So yeah it’s def a joke.
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m - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 17:38:25 EST jv0zZnW9 No.616805 Reply
>>616780
What dont I apparently know? Twice now in this thread you've dropped very general, non-specified links with no/almost no reference to which portion of the link you're referring to.

>>616776
Obviously I was just trying to be nice dude. What do I accomplish by saying "look at all you mental peasants. Wrong wrong, moron moron. Step aside and behold the sheer size of my brain!"?

Dude didn't really know what he was talking about. Oh well. Let's talk about how it actually works, yeah?
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Rebecca Sembleham - Sat, 15 Aug 2020 20:05:41 EST HRj7vDap No.616807 Reply
>>616805
No I actually did all that in the hopes that he proved me wrong and opiates DID in fact create more endorphin receptors, that'd be a huge thing for fitness purposes.
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Charlotte Pickdock - Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:49:02 EST 5W6KIQkA No.616846 Reply
>>616830
More endorphin receptors should mean that there's literally more receiving sensors in your brain, so it should, if it wasnt a lie, translate into more stimulus with endorphin releasing activities, like working out, but it doesn't work like that, thats why I inquired so much about the source, would've been cool
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John Dremmleworth - Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:23:12 EST 29QbCoeq No.616852 Reply
>>616846
It means the opposite i think. From what I've read, a good run or workout supposedly tops out at about equivalent to 20-30mg morphine, albeit not released at once (plus we're used/tolerant to our endorphins). The body only produces so many endorphins, generally in the early am before the day, while stuff like LDN increases endorphin production and repairs receptors/density while up-regulating them, body still only produces/releases so many endorphins which does not scale with receptor density nor for down regulation. more receptors means you need more endorphins to feel "whole", plus down regulation...the reason an addict needs more opis to chase the euphoria, down regulation(less effect) and more receptors (need more drug to light them all up).
Ill try to find a more prestigious source. Opi receptors weren't even "discovered" until the 70s...it's all very new and less understood than people think
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Nicholas Sedgenark - Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:28:34 EST 5W6KIQkA No.616862 Reply
>>616852
In any case opiates cause brain cell apoptosis so its very unlikely they help to grow shit
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m - Wed, 19 Aug 2020 13:36:51 EST jv0zZnW9 No.616875 Reply
>>616868
A limited cursory look seems to suggest it might be a thing, though multiple papers talk about general apoptosis, not specifically brain cell apoptosis (not that it means they're excluded though). Most of the papers seem to focus on cancer cells, such as Rx opioid use in cancer patients.

This is definitely worth looking into.

nb

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