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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated March 22)
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck by Polly Pockson - Mon, 08 Oct 2018 00:29:08 EST ID:4G6UWnoK No.209484 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1538972948176.gif -(405203B / 395.71KB, 499x370) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 405203
>Brother has personality disorder
>Diagnosed bipolar but it's definitely antisocial (sociopath), and probably narcissistic too.
>He's owed me money for like four years now. Spends every extra cent he gets on super strong weed and video games.
>Excuse is he's so depressed. He convinced his doctor to give him a high dose of antidepressants which make his manic symptoms worse and more frequent.
>Anytime an issue is brought up he'll go to any lengths to justify his position on the matter. He'll stand there and talk at full volume at you, for hours of you let him, until you admit defeat or do something to piss him off enough for him to leave you alone. He doesn't take advice from anyone. Weed, depending on the strain, just makes him more excited/agitated.
>He just came home raving about his newest idea he won't go through with, acting like he's on meth.

He's only gotten worse over the years. I know the solution is to move away (but I'd feel a little bad because I'm pretty much his only friend). I'm mostly just venting here. I guess if anyone else has any ideas that would be cool.
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Polly Pockson - Mon, 08 Oct 2018 00:31:55 EST ID:4G6UWnoK No.209485 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Goddamnit. Meant for qq. Can somebody move it or delete and I'll repost?
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Polly Pockson - Mon, 08 Oct 2018 00:33:51 EST ID:4G6UWnoK No.209486 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I'll just repost it there now. My bad.
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Reuben Blackfuck - Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:39:50 EST ID:q1Lk95x+ No.209489 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Dude, fallout 3 is way better than nen vegas. New Vegas has better replayability, granted, but fallout 3 revived fallout itself and even though there's basically not that much of a faction choice, the choices you make matters more in the game in terms of experience and immersion.
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Reuben Blackfuck - Wed, 10 Oct 2018 16:40:27 EST ID:q1Lk95x+ No.209490 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209489

Oh shit wrong board and thread, my bad.
>>
Martha Pipperhure - Thu, 11 Oct 2018 03:38:47 EST ID:lLl+DTfn No.209491 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209484 sounds more like borderline personality to me
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Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:37:53 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209550 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209491
I am not a psychologist but I've studied this stuff a fair bit.

I think you might be right. Narcissism and sociopathy would exhibit much more severe symptoms. There would really be no mistaking it. Tons of things can cause antisocial behavior so that's not really evidence of anything specific. He seems like somebody who has just had it with life and trying to make it day by day and that his behavior is more hopeless than malicious. His endless justifications for things sound more like denial than narcissism. If anything it would be a mild case of "vulnerable narcissism". A true narcissist is going to be the most toxic person you've ever met when you get on their bad side.

Bipolar is going to switch between extremely depressed and extremely manic on a somewhat regular cycle regardless of triggers, and isn't typically as anti-social as similar disorders. Bipolar people will tend to achieve a lot when they're manic rather than going on short stints about some crazy idea.

Borderline personality is a lot like bipolar but it's more reactive to triggers and can change at the flip of a dime. They tend to be more depressed and emotional and have more issues with self-image and being social etc... It's probably more debilitating than Bipolar because Bipolar people can achieve a lot when they're manic and because Borderline is more likely caused by negative experiences in life(almost a form of relationship PTSD in some cases) while bipolar is much more likely to be genetic.

It's probably not antisocial personality disorder because those people have an almost natural lack/absense of empathy from a young age. If you're his brother you'd most certainly have seen this displayed a long time ago. They're typically a lot less depressed and often quite successful at supporting themselves because they have a marked lack of fear and no morals stopping them from manipulating everyone. They will also troll and use people/animals for their amusement and not just monetary gain.

Of course all of these things can overlap and cause each other so psychiatry is mostly BS anyway. He needs to find the source of his frustrations and deal with them from the root. He need psychotherapy and introspection, not being fed medications by some psychiatrist who probably doesn't give a fuck and might be contributing to his psychosis.
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Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 09:40:34 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209551 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209550
And you know, maybe you should listen to him once in a while. He might actually be right about some things. People who are so good at rationalizing things might be wrong a lot but when they are right they are damn right.
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Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 10:01:12 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209552 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209550
Now that I've read a bit more, I was describing psychopathy more than sociopathy. Sociopaths are more emotional and hot headed. They do bad things out of emotion. They're prone to failure in life and issues with things like self-image and loneliness. They're more reactive and psychopaths are more calculated/controlling. A sociopath can feel guilt/regret/shame for their immoral actions while a psychopath cannot. A psychopath is always acting. Psychopaths are much more social and extroverted while sociopaths stick out like a sore thumb. Sociopaths are damaged people. Psychopaths are "evil" people.
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Isabella Dondlestone - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 15:56:31 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209554 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209552
Uhm I think wherever you are actively educating yourself about psychology from is leading you a bit astray. Sociopathy doesn't have much to do with emotionality or hot-headedness (which aren't rigorously defined psychologically.) In fact, the key defining characteristic is a lack of an emotional response to a negative behavior that a normal person would react so emotionally to as to be unable to commit the act.

The theoretical and defining difference between sociopaths and psychopaths is that, with reference to anti-social or maladaptive behavior, psychopaths believe they are right (or are justified in behaving wrongly because they believe something which isn't real is causing them to do it, in which case they are psychotic psychopaths) while sociopaths merely do not care if their behavior is anti-social or not, and see no reason to adhere to group norms (they also generally have very low empathy and no theory of mind for others -- they don't experience other people in an internalized way as others do.)

So in general psychopathy is an aggressive evolution of psychosis, as sociopathy is an aggressive evolution of neurosis.

Source; graduated with psychology degree rather than researching these terms on the fly and then talking about them
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Walter Grimspear - Wed, 07 Nov 2018 19:45:09 EST ID:CoyQgSY8 No.209561 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209554
>graduated with psychology degree
Good for you, so did my sister and she's the most retarded person I've ever known.
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Priscilla Disslehotch - Thu, 08 Nov 2018 19:17:52 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209562 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209561
The point wasn't to brag (notice I didn't specify what kind of degree) but to put weight behind the statements, which you can verify for yourself easily. Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as an expert, or are you just trying to sound like a smart ass?
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Cedric Lightford - Fri, 09 Nov 2018 05:27:20 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209563 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209562
>which you can verify for yourself easily
No you can't. Everything on the internet contradicts everything else. The only way to get any kind of truth about such things is to compare everything and try to figure out what they all have in common. Apparently that isn't good enough because that's what I already did

If you have any reliable sources for information I'm listening.

Also having a degree does not mean you are an expert or have any meaningful insight to what you are talking about, or that somebody else with the same degree is going to agree with you. Your post does nothing but create more questions and contradict what many other people believe.
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Cedric Lightford - Fri, 09 Nov 2018 05:42:05 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209564 Ignore Report Quick Reply
NB but you really did not explain anything. You didn't explain psychopathy that isn't psychotic or caused by delusions so you really didn't explain psychopathy at all. Your definition of a sociopath could also fit under psychopathy or autism. You didn't define anything really.

>Sociopathy doesn't have much to do with emotionality or hot-headedness (which aren't rigorously defined psychologically.) In fact, the key defining characteristic is a lack of an emotional response to a negative behavior that a normal person would react so emotionally to as to be unable to commit the act.
What you said is attributed to both psychopaths and sociopaths. According to some people the main difference is that sociopaths are capable of empathy and guilt even though they both have a noticeable lack of empathy. Also many sources say sociopathy is a result of some kind of trauma or mood disorder. If I'm wrong blame the information and provide proof.

>sociopathy is an aggressive evolution of neurosis
Isn't neurosis literally defined compared to psychosis as having causes related to stress/emotion/trauma while psychosis is just a loss of touch with reality?

>The theoretical and defining difference between sociopaths and psychopaths is that
If you're going to speak in facts I'd appreciate a source besides "I have a degree"
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Cedric Lightford - Fri, 09 Nov 2018 05:54:17 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209565 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>Neurosis: A chronic disorder featuring irritability of the nervous system (nervousness) and characterized by anxiety and/or extreme behavior dedicated to avoid anxiety situations.

Is this wrong? Does this sound anything like a psychopath to you? Does this sound like somebody with no fear or emotions(psychopath)? Every person I've ever met who seemed like a sociopath was at some point in their life abused or emotional damaged and ended up unable to deal with reality as a result. They dissociate and withdraw from reality and they gain their power back by abusing people and making themselves feel bigger. In my understanding it's completely different than psychopathy and has always been associated with trauma.
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Eugene Werringham - Fri, 09 Nov 2018 19:51:37 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209566 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209564
My god you have gotten huffy over this haven't you?
>>If I'm wrong blame the information and provide proof.
That's what I did. I said where you were educating yourself from was leading you astray. You apparently interpreted that as a personal attack and responded in kind.

>>Isn't neurosis literally defined compared to psychosis as having causes related to stress/emotion/trauma
No, the defining characteristic of neurosis is having abnormal, disordered or illogical patterns of thought that are highly idiosyncratic. Any number of things can cause neurosis, but any psychological condition that isn't caused by a neurological condition is inherently caused by stress/trauma, those are the only two options.

>> Everything on the internet contradicts everything else.
Not really, at least if you keep to proper sources. I can see how it might if you don't understand the way technical terms are being used, which is what is happening here, as you are lumping a bunch of unrelated stuff together merely because they seem to go together "Every person I've ever met who seemed like a sociopath" well did you ever consider that the definition of sociopath you learned from movies and such isn't the definition psychologists use? The same is at issue with psychopathy; while psychopathy was never strictly defined, and it is used by the public to mean a wide variety of behaviors stretching from neurosis to schizophrenia. If we used technical terms in the layman sense, they would no longer be technical or even scientific. It's worth noting that psychologists don't really use the terms psychopath or sociopath for this reason; which is why I was trying to point you to the fact that what you're looking at are extreme evolutions of psychosis and neurosis, which are scientifically defined.

>>You didn't explain psychopathy that isn't psychotic or caused by delusions
When the distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy was coined by George Partridge, the intent was to distinguish anti-social behavior that was neurologically caused from that which was environmentally caused -- basically to tie the -pathic concept to neurosis and psychosis, which had just been defined at that point ca. 1930. Socio-pathy was introduced as an alternative to psychopathy that emphasized the social causes of the disease. Neither is a DSM recognized condition, but both went on to influence the related antisocial and dissocial personality disorders. So, psychopathy that isn't caused by delusions, is sociopathy, since the latter is caused by disorder responses, the former by disordered perceptions. One is an error in input, one is an error in output.

>>If you're going to speak in facts I'd appreciate a source
From the very first line of the wikipedia entries (which I assume meet your criterion of 'comparing everything and figuring out what they have in common' since that's how wikipedia operates.)
>>Psychosis: is an abnormal condition of the mind that results in difficulties determining what is real and what is not
>>Neurosis: is a class of functional mental disorders involving chronic distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations....Neurosis should not be mistaken for psychosis, which refers to a loss of touch with reality.
Granted, very cutting edge research is looking at the ways neurosis and psychosis can overlap in certain conditions, but that doesn't change that they are distinct phenomena that frequently occur distinctly.

>>They dissociate and withdraw from reality and they gain their power back by abusing people and making themselves feel bigger
That's a defining trait of Histrionic or Borderline personality disorders. Neurosis sufferers may do that, but they're equally as likely to be completely socially withdrawn and submissive. Yes, some BPD or HPD sufferers also suffer from neurosis, but there is no strong correlation between them. You may be confusing neurosis with neuroticism, which is highly associated with anti-social personality traits and personality disorders like BPD and HPD.
>>has always been associated with trauma.
Again, all psychological conditions not caused by neurological conditions are inherently caused by trauma -- because what else could do it? That's not all there is to it, so saying it is caused by trauma has little explanatory power. If it's not something caused by your inherent biology, its something caused by your environment; nature and nurture are the only factors ever impinging on an individual.
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Hamilton Choffinghirk - Fri, 09 Nov 2018 20:27:06 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209567 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209566
>My god you have gotten huffy over this haven't you?
I'm just slightly pissy that you're claiming to be an expert and not explaining anything. I'm asking because I genuinely find this stuff interesting and I want to figure out if I should believe you or not. It's all good man

>I can see how it might if you don't understand the way technical terms are being used
It's a problem with sources. They are being used wrongly in the first place and I'm just trying to figure out what is the right way to use them. Pretty much any article/diagram that isn't an actual scientific study seems full of shit because they all say something different about the subject and tend to contradict eachother. I don't know if there is a proper website or textbook or something to go by without going to university, but there were literally several websites and infographics with completely wrong information according to you. Wikipedia would have honestly been a better source than trying to read all this wannabe psychology clickbait.

> It's worth noting that psychologists don't really use the terms psychopath or sociopath for this reason
Is it possible that these concepts are not only confusing but just not properly defined in the first place? I wouldn't use them either and I like what you said about psychosis and neurosis. Like I said in my original post I think a lot of these "disorders" are BS , at least in the way they are commonly used, and a lot of "professionals" using the terms don't seem to have any real insight into issue which it seems like we're both trying to do here.

>When the distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy was coined by George Partridge...
The rest of your post is the kind of answers I was hoping to get. Thank you. I might have more to say later but you've given me stuff to look into.
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Betsy Brookham - Sat, 10 Nov 2018 19:16:20 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209568 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>209567
Thanks mate, was really just trying to steer you toward a more proper understanding of the material you were trying to engage. I realize if I had just said what I said without mentioning the spoiler, it would have gone over easier because everyone is inherently hostile to claims of expert knowledge online, even if it happens to be true.

>>Wikipedia would have honestly been a better source
Wikipedia is actually good and its sad how often it is dunked on now. If anyone is ever doubting the quality of a wiki article, check out the discussion page. If its a constant edit war (like a lot of the psychology entries are) the odds are its a pretty good article. Stay far away from shit like Psychology Today and its clones which are full of 'eat pray love' feel-good bullshit. Also be highly suspicious of people claiming 'if you have this...this means that', when you see fake psychologists they will act like they can tell the weather from if you were grumpy two weeks ago, whereas real psychologists are very circumspect, like proper scientists...'there seems to be a slight correlation...statistically this could match our theoretical construct...but more study is needed and x y z are ways this material could be misinterpreted' kinda stuff. Its hard, but the more time you spend studying the literature of any science the easier time you will have telling the real stuff from pretenders...almost universally the latter claims it can tell you more about everything, the former claims it can tell you very little about a specific thing.

>>Is it possible that these concepts are not only confusing but just not properly defined in the first place
Positively that's the reason. They were never properly defined, and when psychologists tried to rigorously define them, they found they couldn't, because they aren't distinct psychological phenomena but colloquially defined clusters of other phenomena. They're really more of a social or legal concept, like the notion of 'criminally insane' which, of course, is a legal, not scientific idea.

>> I might have more to say later but you've given me stuff to look into.
Good luck!
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Samuel Turveyhood - Sun, 25 Nov 2018 07:07:24 EST ID:UsYodcqs No.209591 Ignore Report Quick Reply
His personality is what antidepressants do to people at high doses.


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