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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated March 22)
Infinity by John Pockford - Thu, 25 Oct 2018 22:14:35 EST ID:2HazwbDc No.209524 Ignore Report Quick Reply
File: 1540520075608.png -(148592B / 145.11KB, 1003x915) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. 148592
When you think of infinity do you think of a loop, or do you think of an endless unbounded happening, like pi, for example.
If things are, as they seem, infinite(i suppose thats an assumption) do you think it loops back into itself or stretches on forever.

Pic unrelated, but we should probably start a revolution pretty soon.
Hannah Bliggleforth - Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:39:20 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209528 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>>an endless unbounded happening, like pi
Well, to be fair, pi is not endlessly unbounded. The number of figures in its remainder is unbounded, but the number itself is exactly somewhere between 3.14 and 3.15. A better example would be the set of real numbers.

>> do you think it loops back into itself or stretches on forever
The only thing that infinity references in actuality is the universe (and we can't even be sure about that.) All other instances of infinity are only mathematical objects, so whether or not they 'loop' or 'continue forever' is determined by your mathematical definitions, so I'll deal just with the real infinity.

On the one hand, it continues forever in dimension. If you started counting your position along the coordinate plane as you moved in a consistent direction, the number would always increase, in terms of coordinates you would never find yourself back at 0,0. This applies not only to the spatial dimensions but the temporal dimension. If you continued on your infinite journey, the amount of time that had elapsed would always increase, you would never find yourself suddenly back at the beginning of your journey.

On the other hand (and this is where it gets spooky) while the actual extent of your voyage would continue forever, informationally, you would get into loops relatively quickly. This is because while the extent of space and time is probably infinite, any given volume of space is finite, as is the largest volume of space that can be causally connected due to the speed of light and expansion of space. Since a causally connected 'hubble volume' is what constitutes the actual universe in a practical sense, and since that is finite, the number of possible configurations a hubble volume could manifest is also finite (although undeniably unfathomably large.) With an infinite amount of time to travel, you would encounter every possible permutation of the finite volume an infinite number of times, which would perspectivally look like a loop.

So, basically, both, and neither.
Walter Hoshtare - Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:53:41 EST ID:IbIxqDm0 No.209529 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Thanks for the reply.
Im still confused, but i think i get you.
Reality doesnt exist...?
Walter Hoshtare - Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:17:10 EST ID:IbIxqDm0 No.209530 Ignore Report Quick Reply

And i guess you can say, even though you may encounter a situation which appears to be the same as a previous situation, by virtue of one happening after the other, they are, in fact, different...?
Henry Dacklebad - Sat, 27 Oct 2018 00:29:25 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209531 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well, reality does exist, it's just not very real, and its the realest thing there is.

>>by virtue of one happening after the other, they are, in fact, different...
Well the only way you could know they are different is if you were using different atoms as a way to store that information (atoms that originated outside that hubble volume and had seen that configuration in a prior volume) since there isn't really anything 'different' about them. Under this thought experiment, they would be exactly identical in every physical way, so they would only be 'different' in your mind -- in the same way that our insistence that two ground state Rubidium atoms are 'different' is a sort of psychological illusion.

Let's turn the screw on this another level. Eventually, you would encounter another you, who was exactly like you in every way and lived your life exactly the same (up until the point of you getting on your infinite spaceship, lets assume.) Now, since you would still exist they wouldn't be you, but lets take that part of the equation out (since it's really just to make the thought experiment easier.)

Since the universe is born, dies out, and then recycles the whole process an infinite number of times (in standard cosmology, independent of this thought experiment) and since it will continue to do so afterwards so it's infinite in time and also in space as described above, that means before you were born there were an infinite number of alternate 'you's exactly identical to you, and there will be an infinite amount after. Also, in whatever direction you look up in the sky, there are an infinite number of alternate yous in a line in that direction (although the nearest one is probably 10 to the quadrillionth power hubble volumes away.)

So, are they really 'you' or are they 'different'? You may say that even if they are physically exactly the same, they wouldn't have the same consciousness as you have, so they're just copies. However, if a physical configuration of brain is what generates your consciousness in the first place, and that's exactly the same, then isn't it a violation of the Copernican principle to suggest that, even though this time your brain resulted in your consciousness, an infinite number of times tried again it would never generate your consciousness? That is absurd, it would violate the principle of empiricism and reproducibility. So even down to the level of subjective phenomena like whether you think 'you' are 'you,' if physical realism is even slightly true, as well as the few scientific observations on which this is based, then it implies this kind of cosmic Berkleyan idealism, uniting seeming opposites.

Plato was the first one to bang on about how even if there were no equilateral triangles in the world, the idea of an equilateral triangle still existed, and would eventually manifest itself -- the same is true for everything. So, I think we end up becoming lost if we fixate on if these alters are 'the same' or 'different.' They are all numerous instances of an informational ideal, which is singular.

I know that was kinda rambly, but I hope it made sense.
Ebenezer Blytheworth - Sat, 27 Oct 2018 14:47:42 EST ID:VE5AX/Yi No.209532 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I just came for the pic. Carry on.
Priscilla Brookdock - Sat, 27 Oct 2018 21:04:41 EST ID:K8efSmbs No.209533 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I think of it as a pile. You can always pile more units on the pile. But the pi unit is there it is hard to define as a decimal but that is kind of arbitrary because you know how much it is. Just like 1/3 is .3 forever but you can still make a third of something and look at it
Shitting Crommerkane - Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:49:49 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209535 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1540705789801.png -(50858B / 49.67KB, 897x735) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
It's interesting to note that the unusual properties of pi have pretty much everything to do with using decimal mathematics. For example, look how much more elegant the figure of pi is in ternary mathematics (also, fewer figures of the remainder express a higher degree of precision than in other bases.)
Martin Brongergold - Sun, 28 Oct 2018 23:36:39 EST ID:0ce5TH3p No.209537 Ignore Report Quick Reply
every day life, the motion of everything going along, people moving and pooping and sleeping. thats infinity in motion, a process that never ceases or repeats itself but just unfolds forever
Henry Wibblemutch - Wed, 31 Oct 2018 12:39:29 EST ID:Q9wxuTaW No.209542 Ignore Report Quick Reply
My hope is that there is a heaven too. An endlessly growing love.
Beatrice Brannerpin - Wed, 31 Oct 2018 15:41:43 EST ID:y8yyDs2e No.209543 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1541014903489.jpg -(100289B / 97.94KB, 699x1011) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

I don't understand, only 1.11 trillion? Don't get me wrong, that's a lot, but I heard that some research, by the government, suggested free Healthcare for everyone would cost way more than one trillion and that just doesn't make sense compared to the the op pic. I beginning to think everyone is mixing the two meanings of a trillion, and in addition to that, also mixing trillions and billions.
Beatrice Brannerpin - Wed, 31 Oct 2018 16:09:06 EST ID:y8yyDs2e No.209544 Ignore Report Quick Reply

Nvn, I didn't read the title of the image
Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:17:43 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209545 Ignore Report Quick Reply
I see it as a sort of loop, but the loop itself is not what makes it infinite. It's the fact that the loop can grow infinitely in between the 0 and infinity point. Infinity is always infinity(or zero), so what is really infinite in this view is the numbers between infinity and zero, and could just as easily be expressed as straight line. Pic related.

I also see infinity/existence as the experience of the expression of zero itself. A loop inevitably returns to its origin on every axis. Philosophically I kinda theorize the universe as having a net-zero value(in terms of energy, quantity, etc.) As long as the equation itself equals zero from a dimensionless point of view, somehow the process of it resolving itself is what results in dimensional existence, time, space, life, awareness, etc... In other words existence is like the temporary illusion of asymmetry returning back to its source, which in mathematical terms happens instantly but also over an infinite amount of time.
Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:26:41 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209546 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1541071601706.gif -(129347B / 126.32KB, 288x288) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
forgot pic
Albert Peddlefuck - Thu, 01 Nov 2018 07:28:59 EST ID:VBH3q3ZR No.209547 Ignore Report Quick Reply
1541071739706.gif -(927295B / 905.56KB, 800x600) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Another good one. Both animated btw.
Phineas Fibblepot - Fri, 01 Mar 2019 14:05:38 EST ID:H+sUTPI+ No.209612 Ignore Report Quick Reply
Well if we're talking about infinite time, I think of it as boundless and continually growing or proceeding. If you mean like an infinite life cycle, I think of it as a loop. It would suck if time actually looped.
Phyllis Deblingsark - Fri, 01 Mar 2019 15:50:10 EST ID:2LwLwSlz No.209614 Ignore Report Quick Reply
>> It would suck if time actually looped.
If time proceeds infinitely, then it must also loop infinitely. Since time is just a description of the changes of space, and the number of possible transformations a space can experience is finite (since space is quantized and the speed of light limits the volume of particles which can interact in the lifetime of the universe) then given infinite time, space will experience identical transformations of its space (loops) an infinite number of times during that duration (for a mathematical analogy, consider that any random sequence of numbers, of arbitrary length, appears an infinite number of times in the remainder of pi, but always with different numbers and amounts of numbers between.)
But since time is a measurement of transformations of space, and even with infinite time we see that all transformations and sequences of transformations recur, has time actually progressed at all? If it is only a measurement of change, and in the final count no change occurs (or all changes that happen eventually undo themselves; the sum of the calculation is always zero) then is time really measuring anything at all, or is it more a perceptual illusion, a way for the finite to try to interface with infinity?

My point being to suggest that saying time flows in an infinite line and saying it flows in an infinite loop both result in the same conclusion, that time does not flow at all; a paradox.

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