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Philosophical anime

- Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:44:49 EST 54PBc7Id No.205314
File: 1457981089298.jpg -(7241B / 7.07KB, 300x168) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Philosophical anime
Anybody got any philosophically deep anime recommendations?
Simon Blackshaw - Mon, 14 Mar 2016 15:01:06 EST 54PBc7Id No.205315 Reply
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I'll throw in a few to start.
Shin Sekei Yori (The New World) - exhibits the pros and cons of ethical fascism.
Paranoia Agent - exhibits the pros and cons of self-victimization.
Ghost in the Shell - exhibits hard-core existentialism.
Ghost in the Shell 2: innocence - exhibits tons of philosophical excerpts from history, plus displays a brain-in-a-vat type scenario like Descartes described it.
Tatami Galaxy - centers around subjectivity vs objectivity, exhibits a multi-verse set up, exhibits endless 'what if' scenarios.
Tokyo Godfathers - exhibits many 'acts of God', exhibits a positive turn-out of poor life decisions in a destiny type of manner, as if they were trials from God.
Tekkon Kinkreet - exhibits various ideologies of Taoism, and centers around the idea of balancing good/chaos and bad/order.
Mind Game - exhibits absurdism, endless 'what if' scenarios and the impact of every decision, plus has a funny/creative depiction of God.
Space Dandy - exhibits a ton of absurdism along with tons of random philosophical ideas, ideas often not touched upon, like multi-verse travel, surviving paradoxes, even dating between 4D/3D/2D beings.
Rick and Morty - honorable mention, Rick and Morty is by-far the smartest cartoon I've ever seen from a philosophy of science standpoint. Who could forget the episode where Rick destroys the world and then jumps into a universe where he doesn't destroy the world but dies instead, replacing his dead self and carrying on like nothing happened.
Samurai Executioner (manga) - exhibits many accurate/old Japanese ideologies, specifically Buddhism. Centers around honor, duty, and the never-ending debate surrdounding crime and punishment.
Lydia Checklegold - Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:33:45 EST JsANWSaD No.205392 Reply
serial experiments lain
neon genesis evangelion
puella magi madoka magica
Reuben Grimham - Sat, 19 Mar 2016 23:20:41 EST ojyyQ1Qc No.205405 Reply
spongebob squarepants
tom goes to the mayor
Betsy Sattingfoot - Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:52:45 EST fm1S8rNj No.205409 Reply
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Bleach. Allegory to the soul if there ever was one. A touching expose of the Human Condition. The symbolism of every emotional scene embodies all of the powerful inner daemons that make up our very essence, to form the answer to the question: "what is anger?"
Eliza Billingridge - Tue, 22 Mar 2016 00:10:19 EST gKQIfJLN No.205413 Reply
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Naruto. Now, it's not 2deep or anything. But hear me out here. If you've read the entire story, you'd see what I'm saying here.

>Story begins with kid who has been socially Outcast from all of society, relatively out of touch with contemporary thoughts and beliefs and attitudes (important because it makes him an empty cup for his sensei later on: see the popular zen analogy on the "emptying your cup")
>Gets into a team with with Edgelord Vengeancemaster, realize he's a total fuckboy but also a troubled human being who has been caught up in the violence of humanity (he is a victim of loss, an example of the suffering that attachments to this world will cause you; see: Buddhist views on worldly attachments)
>(Important to note during their eventual fight that Outcast mentions to Edgelord that he knows the pain of not having parents but Edgelord returns with the fact that this wasn't about not having parents but about losing them; it's HERE that Outcast begins his pondering of what it means to feel pain from losing things)
after that
>Edgelord VM goes to fuck off with pedo snakemaster to strictly learn how to fight better, following that path of revenge some more in order to settle the score with his bruv, never taking the time to enhance himself mentally or spiritually
>Outcast retard gets taught by wisest frog fucker in the game, who teaches him how to fight and also passes his wisdom that came from his experience
(They make sure to often mention the frogfucker as a hermit, because the knowledge that he imparts was not taught to him by the society around them, stressing the importance of meditative insight. They also use his book-writing career as a reason for why he understands the nature of reality so well, because he has literally traveled everywhere "to write his books")
>Outcast is practically spoonfed everything that Frogfucker has learned (stressing the importance of teacher/student relationships, which is found all over the place in eastern thought), so that he can take this knowledge for ending the cycles of revenge and pain, a theme that reaches its climax in the fight with Pain (see: literal and metaphorical fight with pain/Pain. It is here that he overcomes the influence of pain from loss, which would otherwise have influenced his revenge, as it did with Edgelord)

>Story continues as Outcast Peacemaster, now having proven his enlightenment from that fight, tries to make the world a better place through some of the shittiest chapters that nobody in the world wanted to read (see: entire like 200 chapter final fight arc) except for the sole reason of reading the ending to a story which took like 15 fucking years to finish

Yeah, the show was never meant to be a deep philosophical adventure, but all of the important plot moments in the story have these things lurking in the background. It's important to give that to the series, at least. Ignoring the "muh sasuke so edgy lel nice shonen fag" shpiel, it's a pretty great story for younger people to power through for its themes. A shame that some of the plot devices later in the series are shit, like gradually turning the fights into watered down dbz, and also keeping some pretty bad comedy and just having some terribly boring stretches of story occasionally, and such. That stuff is why I find it hard to seriously recommend to people who have experienced good anime/manga, but, well, still. I would recommend power-reading the 700 chapters of manga, it's a generally good experience. Under no circumstance should you watch the entire anime unless you're some bored NEET with more free time than you could ever need
Jenny Pozzleford - Thu, 24 Mar 2016 15:48:56 EST jd2LNh4u No.205448 Reply
I've only ever watched one anime, but it hasn't been mentioned and it does have philosophy in it. It's called Deathnote, and it focuses on the ethics of murder and capital punishment.

When a Mary Sue discovers a notebook that kills anyone who's name is written in it, he begins a quest to better humanity by purging the world's criminals.
Hannah Droblinghall - Mon, 28 Mar 2016 10:09:46 EST 54PBc7Id No.205484 Reply
When you get right down to it, every anime has philosophy in it, just like every TV show has philosophy in it in some way or another. It's hard to call anime like Deathnote, Naruto or Bleach 'deep' because their philosophies are quite shallow. Shonen anime (children's anime) like to skim the surface of ideas but then take them no deeper than that. You could say the philosophies in them are extremist as well. Like in Naruto and Bleach the one thing that always saves the day is friendship and in Deathnote every character has some magnificent plan that always goes 100% according to plan even though there's so many variables involved that that's just impossible.

If you check out a lot of stuff, you'll notice pretty common themes and differences between children's anime and adult anime. Shonen (children's) anime often just has a completely idealistic set of philosophy, like the whole 'friendship saves everyone' thing, where as an adult anime (Seinen) might do something like depict friendship and love as things that hurt us and destroy us. For instance, in Evangelion, the protagonist (shinji) feels as though he is in hell the entire show, but the only reason he remains there is because he desperately needs the love of women and the love of his parents in his life. Again and again we see Shinji face near-death, always crying and screaming, yet he's never able to walk away because of the women that coax him into fighting for them. He never gets the love of these women, he never gets love from his father, he just struggles and cries until the world ends. The entire show is about the shitty relationships humans form with each other, relationships that never bloom yet require so much hard work. It's refreshing watching an anime about how humans don't work out when you've grown up seeing anime where friendship always saves the day.
Fanny Blythefoot - Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:47:00 EST X5qizk7j No.205489 Reply
Children's anime are always quite deep because what is unarticulated,ununderstood, lost, is still stored in the art.

Longing is not yet punished because it's still resilience remembering some kind of cost or contemplation in an intangible.

The odyssey is still there but we aren't yet punished for hubris.
All children's tales are like this because expanding or escaping is still really learning.

It seems shallow to us later because we encur the burden to accept the real need to articulate this to a doubt.

If you look at it as a whole it's like switching perspectives from falcor the dog or the dragon to that Panther that sees the nothing.
Also if you revisit shonen you'll see the roots of the rest of anime because it grew up in a response because originally it was just everyone watching astroboy.
So it's an answer I'm giving you that other anime is deep but Shonen isn't really shallow it's light because the heaviness is still floating within us because of the perspective of youth already philosphically tying things without stepping outside of them.
As a fantasy is free to do.
Then the existential crisis hits and you ask for or run into something akin to a test.
You ask about enough you see folly in dreams, jealousy, and pervision in Union or love. Haunted by and grounded by a paradise lost or a golden age.
This can be wrapped up in one series like Berserk.
Guts was a child of horrors and found love of life in something that ended up costing even more.
So in reality this wasn't the first trauma. Childhood is already philosophising a way through that but later in life we find reasons that make us need to go into the depth or sink rather than float up or get higher because we begin to trouble or disturb ourselves in examining, risking and validating attachment or our entanglement.
Which in childhood was really our savior: going into the world.
Then we felt the world was suffering, hence the reason for void, "withdrawing", analysis because we really already reached our synthesis.
Fanny Blythefoot - Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:55:29 EST X5qizk7j No.205490 Reply
I guess what I'm saying is it's really not that it was or is "skimming" the surface it's that we were coming up through that then we realized the problems or violence within that.
It made it seem simple because we saw different variations in life of that theme not "working out" when in the beginning we were already torn inbetween that and coming to it as world and self.

Then you notice the trauma in involement especially after ruminating on some failure in something that "wins" or captures the day.
Charlotte Danningburk - Mon, 04 Apr 2016 07:15:06 EST +GhsKMRW No.205543 Reply
Cyberpunk / 10:
Ergo Proxy (8)
Serial Experiments Lain (9)
Ghost in the Shell (9.99999...)
Texhnolyze (10 - the 1 and Only)

Other ones that got me thinking, but are less obvious, and some might say they are not philosophical:
Boogiepop Phantom
Shinsekai Yori

I see that almost all of these were mentioned, but at least I'm adding weight
Matilda Suzzlewodge - Sun, 10 Apr 2016 11:00:58 EST V5vleUS8 No.205615 Reply
I see the entire plot of AKIRA as a metaphor for stimulant abuse and addiction.
Phoebe Cennerkare - Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:44:20 EST 54PBc7Id No.205628 Reply
I hear the manga goes into that a lot more than the anime.
That being said, Akira is still to this day one of the most gorgeous anime that exists, so that's why I prefer the movie over the manga.

Some anime movies are fucking timeless, because their production value was so awesome, where as most anime today have extremely low production value and mainly consist of scenes where literally nothing happens and it's just a still-frame of something, or like a character with just their mouth or eyes moving, where as Akira, which came out over 20 years ago, has fluid movement and things like hair and clothes blowing in the wind, something most animes literally refuse to do due to budget.

See, I really love anime that either are visually impressive or philosophically impressive. And then you have anime like FLCL, Paranoia Agent, Mind Games, and GitS (the movie) that have both. Also, LOL at GitS the TV show for trying to copy the depth of the movies but doing it in a really shallow way (just blurting random 'philosophical' quips here and there).

I watched Colorful thinking it would be deep, but it felt so fucking stupid. Like this kid wakes up from suicide with no memory of his life so he can start fresh, but then 'God' descends upon him and is like, 'Hey! You're mom cheated on your dad! haha!' and then this stupid fucking bitch protagonist spends the entire rest of the movie fucking shitting on his mom even though she's trying to be the best mom ever due to her son's suicide. Like I just wanted to beat the shit out of the protagonist the whole time for being such a bad person.
Caroline Sellergold - Tue, 12 Apr 2016 23:03:05 EST ecbph2gT No.205644 Reply

Lain is essential viewing for anyone who uses the internet
John Crinderbanks - Wed, 13 Apr 2016 09:29:58 EST 54PBc7Id No.205649 Reply
I concur.
Also, everyone who uses the internet should watch the ending of Metal Gear Solid 2.
It makes serious mention about how the internet is cancerous to society. Metal Gear Solid 2 literally foretells of safe spaces and echo chambers among many other problems we internet users face.

I've always been highly impressed by Lain. I mean, those directors, even in the 90's, clearly knew a lot about how the internet was going to evolve alongside humanity.
Hamilton Drirryshit - Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:30:46 EST L7kAfRH0 No.205824 Reply
Kino no Tabi: The Beautiful World
Girl travels with her motorcycle to a new city with each episode, and each time we get to learn about their customs, society and beliefs. Really good stuff.
Nigel Gobberforth - Wed, 27 Apr 2016 23:54:56 EST RlR36wAU No.205826 Reply
Ergo Proxy being philosophical is a meme. Watched 5 episodes and left scratching my head how anyone could think it was thought provoking.

Serial Experiments Lain is the shit though.
Polly Cranningwill - Fri, 29 Apr 2016 09:43:53 EST 54PBc7Id No.205835 Reply
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Yeah, Ergo Proxy is just ok. I don't see what the big appeal is. Much like Witch Hunter Robin, it just felt really dark and slow and somewhat mundane.

But I did just recently watch the 3 Madoka Magica movies and god damn are they good. They're incredible movies because they mix absolute horror and magical girls in a fun, deep way. Plus the art style is incredible, totally avante garde, I've never seen anything like it.

It's a deeply horrifying anime; It's essentially Evangelion magical girls. The characters are all very naive, and this naivety sends them down the road to Hell, and they all perish countless times for it. Then it slams you with an existential bomb that makes you feel like everything, all the suffering, was pointless. It's a very fun journey that is absolutely not appropriate for children to see even though it surrounds magical girls haha.
Alice Murdway - Tue, 27 Dec 2016 01:37:03 EST XWuxdlQi No.207512 Reply
While I agree the Ergo Proxy isn't the best, I do enjoy its take on sentient beings. There are certain characters that were made into Gods, or Proxies, and these Proxies were a way for the city's robots to acquire a soul. I mean, it tries to tackle a huge concept in about 20 eps, and yeah I admit I was a bit lost at times, and the ending seems really rushed like "SHIT GUYS WE GOTTA RAP THIS UP"! That being said, it was a pretty decent watch. My favorite was the bit about the small robot made to look like a child, a companion robot. She gets infected and acquires a soul, and throughout the story she learns to love and feel and experience things like humans do. And her view of everything is really precious, but also very interesting because she's not made of flesh and blood. I'll admit I sorta spaced out on a few eps because it gets weird, but worth a watch if you like robits.
The first response to this post has tons of great references (shouts out m8) and Evangelion is a must <3
Charles Pibberhedge - Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:11:04 EST 54PBc7Id No.207526 Reply
Children's anime is the opposite of deep. The entire point of it is that everything is completely straightforward and over-simplified so that the children can always follow along. There is no depth stored in the art. And if it is deep, it is only deep to a child, and not an adult. I know from experience.

When you compare Naruto and things like Tatami Galaxy side by side, you instantly realize that Tatami Galaxy is rich with philosophy while Naruto is rich with utter idealism aimed at captivating children.

There's nothing wrong with enjoy children's anime, but don't say they're deep. They're about as deep as a trash novel; there's underlying themes and ideas, and there's examples of them, but are they actually well-thought-out? No.
Charles Pibberhedge - Fri, 30 Dec 2016 14:13:35 EST 54PBc7Id No.207527 Reply
Ergo's cool but a little too 'witch hunter robin' for me. Not enough significant dialogue. If you like that kinda stuff, maybe check out Ghost in the Shell (1995) or GitS2: Innocence (2003). Those are both very deep, very existential. Also, I love Madoka Magica btw, so great gif.
Martha Hattingcocke - Sat, 31 Dec 2016 10:10:23 EST iAquTtgI No.207529 Reply
Do you ever worry that by dedicating decades of your life to watching anime and being part of its fandom you've actually limited yourself to a medium that has yet to attract true artists. Like you know everything about the world of punch man or school girl but you've ignored the works of talented Japanese film makers like Suzuki and shendo. Even Kurosawa might be a better use of your time.
Barnaby Billingshaw - Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:08:35 EST rxoy98SS No.207585 Reply
Just to add something:
Blame! (manga)

It doesn't really hold deep dialogues, but the world it proposes is really interesting (Automic building machines have been constructing a planet non-stop for millions of years after the death of mankind)

Also I've read somewhere that Akira was a metaphor for puberty. I should watch it again. Also, talking about Akira, Tetsuo the Iron Man is a good japanese film, with philosophical content.
Matilda Nobberpig - Thu, 19 Jan 2017 20:44:18 EST yxtVm4L5 No.207618 Reply
FMA? it indulged my wiki browsing tendencies
Esther Bammerway - Fri, 20 Jan 2017 09:51:04 EST 54PBc7Id No.207620 Reply
I doubt anything Shonen really can be thrown into the Philosophical anime category. Like someone once said 'Naruto' is philosophical, and they tried to break it down for us, but at the end of the day shows like Naruto only champion entirely unrealistic and childish philosophies, like nobody has to die and friends can accomplish anything, and then the rest of the show is just unwitty quips being thrown around while people perform their special moves that for some reason only they know, kind of like super heroes who have a singular power.

The last philosophical anime I watched a few weeks ago was Tokyo Godfathers. It's not the dialogue so much that's philosophical, but it's the plot of the movie that is. It's both highly absurd, like clearly grasping Absurdism, while also clearly theological, like the movie's really about Christ using a baby to save three people down on their luck.
David Dringersot - Fri, 20 Jan 2017 13:10:35 EST cIoDz7iD No.207621 Reply
well there's hunter x hunter for shonen. that's about it. it's pretty much the opposite of everything you just complained about in naruto.
Henry Chendershit - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 17:17:34 EST 2IPvcf8v No.207625 Reply
Boy the fan theories for evangelion are so good and there's some that even seem a little credible. I'm not the biggest anime watcher but as far as rewatchable shows I think it takes the cake. And as far as depth goes I think it takes the cake as well.

The whole thing is basically an existential crisis. All that shinji really wants is to be happy and accepeted and he's thrown into the role of trying to save the world. Everyone rejects him in one way or the other, and the weight of the world is thrown unto his shoulders over and over again.

Shinji is killing angels of course in the body of an angel the eva. And the final angel is the one who shows shinji the most acceptance love and care of anyone in the entire show. Really makes you think. Also, I am a big fan of the theory that it all takes place in shinjis head and that he's in a mental ward.

Go watch eva if you haven't its one of the animes (along with serial expirements lain) most worth your time. Highly recommended. In all seriousness, both are amazing and damned deep.
Sidney Chenningfuck - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:35:25 EST iAquTtgI No.207627 Reply
Can I get some philosophical musings on why people who want to fuck Japanese drawings think other white Americans should only fuck other white Americans?
Doris Buffingstitch - Mon, 23 Jan 2017 21:41:06 EST 2IPvcf8v No.207628 Reply
They should at least be having sex with real people but who cares what color they are. The only problem with people who get too into that stuff is when they focus on the idea of 2d over 3d. But legit, who the fuck cares about what race the people their fucking are? People should have healthy relationships, with whoever they want. The whole wanting a 2d girl hard as fuck just isn't mentally healthy. They need a real girlfriend or boyfriend.
Jarvis Greenforth - Tue, 24 Jan 2017 09:54:59 EST 54PBc7Id No.207633 Reply
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Nigga, I've seen EVERYTHING Evangelion. I've seen the originals. I've seen the reboots. I've seen the short version. I've seen The End. I've seen the new 3 movies. I've played the dating sim. I've read half the manga and most of the alternative mangas where the characters exist in different universes.

I love Evangelion hahaha. It's the anime about how life and human relationships DON'T work out.

Evangelion is essentially a story of God testing Shinji. God has created thousands upon thousands of scenarios Shinji must face in order to reach salvation, salvation being a real shot at life and a relationship with Asuka, whom watched Shinji die in thousands of separate scenarios all created by God, but then was forced to forget all of it.

The ending of the Manga Evangelion goes way past the ending of the anime. The anime was only one scenario of the thousands Shinji had to live through and die in.

But if you like Eva, you definitely need to watch Madoka Magica. Madoka Magica is literally Evangelion meets Sailor Moon. It's epic. One minute you've got these cute magical transformation scenes, the next minute you've got characters violently struggling and dying. Plus the art style is incredible. INCREDIBLE.
Jenny Billingcocke - Sun, 29 Jan 2017 12:54:47 EST VD5wTDNK No.207649 Reply

>God has created thousands upon thousands of scenarios Shinji must face in order to reach salvation, salvation being a real shot at life and a relationship with Asuka, whom watched Shinji die in thousands of separate scenarios all created by God, but then was forced to forget all of it.

Incorrect usage of 'whom'.
Sophie Wobbershaw - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 12:46:24 EST Z8UFt8tz No.207650 Reply
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sorry to burst your bubble but there's no god or even fate in eva. turns out it was fucking ancient aliens. I'm not even joking, that was the cause of everything. they didn't even explain this shit until some shitty psp game, I thought it was just a rumor but nope, the data files you unlock are directly from anno's mouth. really all the spiritual stuff is only there for flavor, japan uses christianity the same way we use norse or greek mythology.
George Dummledale - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 14:38:08 EST 54PBc7Id No.207651 Reply
Link me a source because in the manga it turned out that God was behind it and forced Shinji to live thousands of lives.
Sophie Wobbershaw - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:05:40 EST Z8UFt8tz No.207654 Reply
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oh the manga is way different. they adapt parts of end of evangelion but for the most part the latter half is entirely sadamoto's work, with some inspiration from the planning material that didnt end up in the show (sometimes ironically, like how in the first draft of the show kaworu liked cats and had a pet cat) the first ancestral race is only referenced in the anime, and only elaborated in that psp game. idk why anno even gave them that information it was more interesting when we didnt understand.


idk if they matter in rebuild though.
George Dummledale - Mon, 30 Jan 2017 15:53:56 EST 54PBc7Id No.207655 Reply
Well, thanks for that tidbit. It lines up with everything from the anime. I already knew all of this, I just took it for granted that God had created the Ancestral Race since he appears in the manga but not the anime.
Edward Dripperfuck - Tue, 07 Feb 2017 08:43:27 EST Gj8Cqagl No.207697 Reply
Lain a shit.

Ergo Proxy and Pinguindrum (and Baccano! in some ways) for really hardcore pretentious intellectualism.
Samuel Gidgemedge - Tue, 07 Feb 2017 14:13:00 EST d4DXKOh3 No.207698 Reply
The guy mentioning DragonballZ was joking, but I will say that Dragonball Super has at least one pretty interesting philosophical theme for a punching-man Mongolian shadowplay.
Basically, Dragonball Super states that despite the immense power of the heroes, there are always much stronger entities out there, that are so powerful, that even when our heroes would become immortal (which they aren't) and train everyday, they'd still be weaker than these stronger entities - because these stronger entities have a headstart of a couple million years, and for each year our heroes train to get stronger, these stronger entities can also train to get stronger.

It mimics ideas on the development of technology by hypothetical non-human civilizations in the universe, the idea of apes and angels.
Basically, if we ever have contact with aliens, they will be either apes (since for 95% of human history, we've basically lived like apes with tools and fire) or angels (because if we don't go extinct, the vast majority of our history will be living with technology beyond even our current most imaginative scifi). Chances of meeting aliens with an identical level of technology are absurdly small.
Basically, the "guy" who begins first with training gets the strongest, and stays the strongest - forever.
Lydia Fonkindale - Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:24:15 EST 54PBc7Id No.207722 Reply
I just want to point something out.

Everything is based in philosophy. Everything. You could take any show, any retarded show, and go on for paragraphs and paragraphs about what ideas the plot is making use of, just as you are now.

I will say this. I consider the difference between a philosophical anime and any run of the mill anime to be that one is rich with philosophy and uses it in the dialogue every single episode while every other show simply has a general philosophy in the background being followed.

In Dragon Ball, regardless of the points you're making, the show never made mention of the things you've just mentioned (even if they do exist in the show) because the truth of the matter is that every single episode is about shallow, one-dimensional characters constantly commenting on things that are happening, and what's happening always revolves around a fist-fight. That's it. There is no philosophical dialogue, there is only characters commenting on things, exuding their one-dimension that the audience loves and expects, and then when the protagonists and antagonists wrangle philosophical with each other, the protagonist simply uses the 'I'm the good guy/you're the bad guy/you're plans are evil/friendship is life/I cannot be beaten because I've got friends' speech and then the antagonist is taken aback and loses the fight. That's not philosophy, that's idealism. That's one idea completely overtaking another idea simply because the other idea (the evil idea) is made extremely shallow, so shallow that a simple argument in the opposite direction overwhelms it, when in reality no such thing could/would happen.
Lydia Fonkindale - Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:27:43 EST 54PBc7Id No.207723 Reply
Like, let me sum up Dragon Ball.
"You're evil! I'm good! You're alone! I have friends! You want power! I want peace! I win because I'm more ethical than you!"

Now let me sum up Samurai Executioner.
"You're a criminal. I want to know why you are a criminal. I sympathize with you (or I don't) but regardless, my duty is to kill you so that you may make peace with the Buddha and to uphold the system of justice. I do this not because I want to but because no matter what, someone will do this, I am just the best and most morally upstanding person for the job, so I begrudgingly accept it. That being said, my deep dark secret that I tell no one is that I actually love watching people die, I think it's the most beautiful thing in the world, but I absolutely abhor killing."

That's a philosophical manga for you.
Lydia Fonkindale - Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:33:41 EST 54PBc7Id No.207724 Reply
Like every single chapter is a seemingly-360-degree analysis of criminal psychology and the philosophy behind justice and doing what's right and what that truly is. Where as you take a manga like Dragon Ball and every chapter is just people spewing out funny words like Kame Hame Ha! and Wolf Fang Fist! and Spirit Bomb! And NOOOOOO!.

The truth is, that's the difference between mature and immature anime/manga/anything for you. The mature stuff is deep. It's complex. Kids can't understand subjects this complex; only experienced adults can. And these are philosophical subjects that we face in our every-day life, in reality. Stuff like Dragon Ball is made for kids. Its philosophy is on a level a child would think at. It has slow and constant messages that kids can easily identify through episodes and episodes of seeing characters act extremely predictably. They can't predict it because they're kids, but that predictability is learned in those formative years. Like, these childish shows are good for children to learn from, it easily captures their minds, but give them something like Samurai Executioner and they'll just say, 'This is boring. Nothing's happening except talking. What do half of these words even mean? Why is this significant?' because they're young and immature and unworldly. But spend 30 minutes with Samurai Executioner and you'll walk away with loads of things to think about while you spend 30 minutes with Dragon Ball and you'll just probably be bored and brain-dead.
Ian Willerridge - Wed, 15 Feb 2017 15:37:28 EST Ya59RsKY No.207728 Reply
You can see the world in a grain of sand. An adult, even one knowledgeable on philosophy, could watch a philosophically dense anime and still get nothing out of it, or find the philosophy it articulates to be facile. At the same time they could interpret a more childish show that isn't explicitly philosophical through a philosophical lens that produces a result that's much more complex and nuanced than what they began with or what they could've gotten from the other show.

The purpose of the show is to be watched and enjoyed. Anyone who is going to get something philosophical out of a show it going to do so because they are bringing a desire and a philosophical analytical capacity to the table in the first place. In a very meaningful sense, the philosophy they draw out of the show is something that exists within them, and the particulars of the show, whether they are able to be interpreted philosophically explicitly or only implicitly are mostly only mental touchstones to get that internal philosophy to emerge.

Take, for example, Star Wars. In itself, it's relatively philosophically primitive. It's basically no more complex than
>>"You're evil! I'm good! You're alone! I have friends! You want power! I want peace! I win because I'm more ethical than you!"
And yet people have read into it and between it's lines all kinds of grandiose philosophical musings. And Star Wars is made for kids. So my basic point is that all philosophies about entertainment media are created by the people who are experiencing them regardless of how explicit their actual philosophical content is, and so you shouldn't dismiss the philosophy that emerges from a property based on whatever baked in explicit attitude it has or what its target demographic is.
Augustus Sarrynuck - Wed, 15 Feb 2017 23:46:50 EST hvs4h/ox No.207730 Reply
That's one way to see it, another way to see it is that Goku relates to people through struggle.

Yes that's a very broad metaphor. But it's very specifically highlighted by patterns of loss that articulate a broader story, that Dragonball not citing a philosophy but making one.

You can think about it as the exact opposite of candide. Goku's naiviety is not proven wrong, but rather transforms itself along and others along the way. While in turn others transform it.

You can think of it as directly related to journey to the west and hanuman and rama's myth. I can't comment on it specifically but Monkey represents the mind ape and the mountain he is in represents his heart or his home, while his journey or the monk in this case bulma represents compassion or his heart in the world.

It's like everything the mind has gone through. The metaphor in battle of the gods was essentially. Goku is not the opposite of the "monsters" he faces. Similar to Journey to the west, he is also the other. That's why he talks to them uniquely. They usually end up joining the calvacade or journey. That there is something to do while we are here that isn't self destructive.

Even when Goku fights Buu, he recognizes that. When Uub comes back that represents that full circle journey. In a sense Goku's the point in spirtuality that accomplishes in regardless of what is written in stone.

He is intensely focused on Vegeta and Uub out of love. In a deep sense he is trying to convince them of that.

Hannuman was the god of warriors. You can also see this in Sun Wukong. And you can also see this in Son Goku. A careful philosophy about what war meant, and what you could do about that experience after you came back from war.

You can see that in Ruroni Kenshin too. As young people we often miss the simple ways in which he is talking to the antagonist. It isn't really ever assuming your inner conflict is not in me. Which is very neccessary philosophy about love.

Dragonball doesn't deny the tragedy within Piccolo or Vegeta. Nor does it deny the tragedy in Goku. Basically Piccolo is trying to kill Goku because Goku killed his dad, because his dad killed Krillin. Because Kami split himself in half because as he was he wasn't good enough to become god.

The entire time even though the rules of the universe they are in have set them against each other, Goku still tries to keep whatever feels loss of whatever doesn't feel whole, whole. By making the fight something positive.

Basically the desire is what is persuading his opponents to see him as remarkable and what it is doing is making them see something remarkable. He is literally wating for Buu to come back out of a trust that's been irreparably harmed and mocked over 9000 times in the story. From accepting Bulma's offer at face value to letting raditz's tail go. But it's the same thing that allows him to know Gohan will win, that piccolo is good for Gohan, that krillin shouldn't kill Vegeta.
Charlotte Serrybire - Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:07:37 EST 54PBc7Id No.207732 Reply
> An adult, even one knowledgeable on philosophy, could watch a philosophically dense anime and still get nothing out of it
Sure, but that's not likely to happen.

>At the same time they could interpret a more childish show that isn't explicitly philosophical through a philosophical lens that produces a result that's much more complex and nuanced than what they began with or what they could've gotten from the other show.
I suppose so, but it's not terribly philosophical the way shonen anime clearly adheres to a singular thread of philosophy through the course of hundreds of episodes.

I mean you're talking idealisms and not realisms here. You're not wrong, but still, immature anime is extremely one-sided in terms of philosophy, and is actually pretty extremely dogmatic and all the characters and the plot just follow along this dogma.

Like, here's a real-world example. Immature anime is like talking about communism and only ever mentioning the idealistic and good qualities of communism, where as a mature anime is like talking about communism and not only talking about its merits but also it's flaws and its real-world historic application. Be as idealistic about learning as you want, one piece of content is filled with information while the other is filled with a singular strand of thought stretched out 100 episodes.

>In a very meaningful sense, the philosophy they draw out of the show is something that exists within them.
Idk man, that's like saying that philosophy drawn out of a philosophy book is something that exists within the reader. I'd argue that it's new to them and it's being handed/shown to them. Same goes for philosophical anime.

>Star Wars
Star Wars is not aimed at kids. It's aimed at everyone. Not to mention, it's loaded with Taoist and Buddhist philosophy, as well as elements of Bushido. Star Wars isn't deep, but it isn't shallow, either.

>Explains Dragon Ball Z
>But is actually explaining the gyst of every shonen martial-arts anime in existence.
Blackie-Chan - Wed, 15 Mar 2017 05:07:40 EST P5jbTK9T No.207878 Reply
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Why has nobody posted about Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann?

It has Plato's Cave parallels, the Will to Power, an Ubermensch AND an Ubermensch successor, morally ambiguous decisions, inspiring and hot-blooded speeches, awesome art, music, and characters.
Its a show that is almost impossible to NOT be inspired by due to its insistence that determination, fighting spirit, and love can win against any threat and break and bonds that humans may have.
What's not to like?
Lydia Sinkintane - Thu, 16 Mar 2017 14:51:48 EST upgdBNHk No.207889 Reply
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Revy doesn't care about anything. She's a nihilist.

"Oh, that must be exhausting."
Walter Shakewill - Mon, 03 Apr 2017 09:58:36 EST 54PBc7Id No.207966 Reply
Gurren Lagann was quite a tale. It had many twists and turns, many true moral dilemmas. It was very well-done. Truly, Kill La Kill pales in comparison to TTGL in terms of philosophy, but Kill La Kill was fun in it's own way; the director was really showing off his animation and just having fun satiring the shonen community. Truly a show for stoners.

I recently re-watched Shin Sekai Yori (From the New World). What a fantastic show. What makes it especially fantastic is that the protagonist slowly learns the true nature of her village, the last bastion of civilization, is a totalitarian/fascist community, and at first she fights against this, thinking her society wrong for slaying innocents and such, yet as she grows and experiences more of the chaotic nature of life, she eventually realizes that this totalitarian/fascist way of life is truly the only way to survive. This anime truly flips morality on it's head and shows that what we consider just and right is merely reflective of how humanity is doing, and that as humanity declines, so must our rights as individuals in favor of the majority, because civilization must survive over the individual.

And then you've got fucking movies like Snow Piercer where, when faced with a dilemma between old-school morality and the utter survival of the human race, the hero chooses old-school morality and damns humanity to death merely for not living up to his standards of justice. In choosing between one young and innocent boy sacrificing himself to a life of torture for the sake of keeping society alive, the protagonist opts to save the boy and allow humanity as a whole to crumble and die.
Jarvis Blinnerspear - Fri, 19 May 2017 23:46:35 EST U9scTQrw No.208154 Reply
In my opinion, none of them are "philosophically deep" because that's not their purpose, and in comparison to actual philosophical works (which are all books), they're all horribly shallow. That goes for anime and manga.

But, Berserk draws heavily from Nietzsche and from western media that drew from Nietzsche. Vagabond has some neat concepts of course based on Musashi. Akira is a little Nietzsche inspired. Eden: It's An Endless World tries to establish connections to Gnosticism. That's all I can think of at the moment.
Ian Bliddlefoot - Sat, 20 May 2017 15:11:56 EST ChAktkJf No.208156 Reply
it's disappointing how after all the moral social and philosophical ranting the ending lesson of Eden was just "lol have hope things will get better if you have hope". He really sort of gave up halfway through, perhaps earlier. I don't think that guy had any idea what he wanted to do with that series to begin with., he just liked robots killing each other and spewing ideology and quotes he doesn't fully understand. the gnostic stuff seemed more like window dressing to me, like how evangelion uses it. dude's got talent but no focus.

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