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Secret Societies

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- Thu, 03 Nov 2016 00:35:55 EST jjNLJE8u No.207142
File: 1478147755506.png -(381662B / 372.72KB, 1024x682) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Secret Societies
I just wanted to talk about what you guys thought about secret societies. Can a large shadow organization be stable and running as well as still stay out of sight from the public eye
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Barnaby Blisslebatch - Thu, 03 Nov 2016 07:38:28 EST BKJX7E+7 No.207144 Reply
>Can a large shadow organization be stable and running as well as still stay out of sight from the public eye

Uh yes. But bro this isn't really /pss/ relevant.
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Caroline Deddlestone - Fri, 04 Nov 2016 11:40:16 EST 54PBc7Id No.207150 Reply
>>207142
Well, OP, you're correct.
I mean, just look at George Soros. He's a single example of a shadow figure controlling massive swathes of people. He's the one who owns Black Lives Matter, for instance. Who'd have thought that; some old Jew with billions of dollars is the one running BLM.

But I mean, I'm almost positive that the Clintons, The Bush's, Obama, and more are all part of one specific cabal that runs a massive amount of our government. I call them 'the Imperialist Party'. Like, if you really look at it, The Clintons and the Bushes and Obama have all pursued the same Imperialistic goals regardless of their stance on national topics. And they all despise Trump because he's clearly not from their cabal, but probably of another cabal, possibly (and this is reaching into tinfoil bullshit) a cabal that extends to Russia. I have no doubt Russia/that whole region has another cabal just like the ones over here in the West, and I guess Trump has more stock in that cabal, if it does exist. But realistically he might be a lone wolf. Sanders also seemed like a lone wolf, and he was literally robbed of his chance at being the front-runner, so, what does that tell you?
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Lydia Crenningkine - Fri, 04 Nov 2016 12:16:50 EST nrMZmil1 No.207151 Reply
The problem with conspiracy theories isn't that people don't get together to conspire, it's that people don't actually consciously decide _that_ much about society. It's just the right-wing illusory reaction to the possibility of gaining consciousness of the actual dynamics of oppression involved in society.

It's like oh, a concrete assessment of economic relations would reveal that a capitalist class uses its ownership of the means of production to force the working class to labor for the capitalist's profit and their continued dispossession? Racial categories have been made to reinforce enslavement and colonialism, which were all started for the material benefit of a select few? National identity is a farce made to keep workers thinking their interests coincide with the wealthy elite?

Reactionary response: clearly it is the International Jewish Bankers controlling the world!

The truth behind oppression is far more impersonal and involves changing the real material systems we find ourselves in relation with. Conspiracy theories are mostly attempts at diverting any energy away from this, usually involving the manipulation of emotions so as to keep people away from the investigation of reality.
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Phyllis Wanningkodging - Sat, 05 Nov 2016 07:21:48 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207155 Reply
1478344908078.gif -(37803B / 36.92KB, 300x400) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>207150
You're fucking retarded and you should straight up kill yourself.

---

>Can a large shadow organization be stable and running as well as still stay out of sight from the public eye

No. It's completely impossible.

Why stay comfortable in a secret society, if you can become even more powerful bringing down that secret society, or inserting a secret society inside another secret society?

This basic fact means that no secret society can ever be stable. It will always become an unstable system, and given the amount of control such a society would need over normal society, it'd collapse very soon.
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Charlotte Nusslebune - Sat, 05 Nov 2016 11:42:51 EST shmK6ute No.207156 Reply
>>207155
Holy shit the irony help. You're the fucking retard my dear Phyllis. Surely you see the self-defeating nature of insulting people while trying to communicate them. You speak in absolutes and then use vague questions to justify your nonsense. We should all straight up kill ourselves for having had read the shit that you posted.
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Martin Trotstock - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 08:29:38 EST nrMZmil1 No.207162 Reply
>>207156

You seem pretty adamant about defending an anti-semite. Pathetic. Though not unexpected from your type.
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Shitting Bungold - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:31:05 EST xA39R98b No.207163 Reply
1478446265545.jpg -(230396B / 225.00KB, 717x478) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>mfw this thread already

>>207162
>defending an anti-semite
shut the fuck up. Jews aren't that special anyways that dislike towards them needs a specific term. So what that unlike every other race on the planet right, that they got fucked in the history. Probably the jewish secret society wants you to feel guilty for them so they can operate on another level. And he's right the post he replied to was dumb and very generalized.

>>207155
Large legal registered organizations are run in secrecy all the time. So what makes you think that large group of like minded people with an somewhat of unified mission can't stay below common knowledge?

The question you asked was very vague and short-sighted. Assuming we are talking about a secret society of powerful people, people in power are not concerned about short-term aims. They, unlike you, understand that powerful things happen in groups and in long term. Why would one bring down a secret society that benefits them in the long term? What would make him/her more powerful in doing that? Gaining all these powerful enemies.. All that makes zero sense to me. It only makes sense to a larger-than-life state of mind.
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Shitting Bungold - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 10:40:02 EST xA39R98b No.207164 Reply
>>207155
And the fact is Cosa Nostra was stable and running below the radar for over a 100 years from 19th century to early 20th until the killings, extortions and violence between groups started bringing major attention to them. Not to mention the American Italian mafia which was basically Sicilian thing on steroids.

Now imagine people that already have the financial power and in-depth understanding of the works of money and people (not talking about 18yo senior zeitgeist educated btw) on large scale.
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Augustus Fillyson - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:16:58 EST 0aDGMcny No.207165 Reply
>>207164
There are shit tons of 'secret' societies by that broad of a definition, but it's not the NWO secret jewish cabal you're imagining. 95% of secret societies are just a bunch of rich old farts who want to waste time and hang out while pretending they're doing something important.
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Shitting Bungold - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 17:34:12 EST xA39R98b No.207167 Reply
>>207165
What I'm talking about is what's real. Large groups of people with common interests that make actions towards their common agenda while staying hidden from the public eye. Shadow special interest groups basically.

What you're looking for is illuminati or some type of men in black fantasy kind of shit, where they go out in the forests every solstice burning wooden symbols while chanting latin phrases.
I don't think that's not what the original question was about.
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Eliza Sembleridge - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 19:50:02 EST nrMZmil1 No.207168 Reply
>>207163

>Jews aren't that special anyways that dislike towards them needs a specific term.

You have a very limited understanding of European history. And your inability to think historically is necessarily tied to your failing to realize the actual social dynamics you're involved with.
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Charlotte Sunkinforth - Sun, 06 Nov 2016 20:44:31 EST 0aDGMcny No.207169 Reply
>>207167
>>groups of people with common interests that make actions toward their common agenda while staying hidden from the public eye
Well, that's a totally legal thing to do. That's called a privately-held company.
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Esther Dummlestet - Mon, 07 Nov 2016 01:53:46 EST T7Q2L0nw No.207170 Reply
>>207142
Exclusivity and concentration of power are indeed a thing. In practice however, the only clear cut example of a secret society and rituals or that other nonsense would be frats like the Skull and Bones society at Harvard. Look up how Ivy League colleges/Universities have had impact on the direction and control of the US. Namely Harvard and Yale. MIT for Technological shit. Etc. Colleges and consequently, their frats, have the closest thing you are looking for.

Though, big Jewish plot of lizard people won't be really found.
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Charlotte Sunkinforth - Mon, 07 Nov 2016 18:39:16 EST 0aDGMcny No.207172 Reply
>>207170
By the definition of secret societies this guy is going for, there's way more than Skull and Bones. The Bohemian club is probably close to what he's imagining, but the bulk of secret societies are the Freemasons and their descendants, and groups like OTO, ABODA, etc, which of course are all real things, but aren't secretly pulling the strings of the world except perhaps in a mystical sense, and are mostly just old occultism nerds who again are just looking for an excuse to hang out and waste time.
>>
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Sophie Dellytork - Wed, 09 Nov 2016 16:38:13 EST 6E8SzyfR No.207178 Reply
>>207168

The Semites are actually an ancient group of people who have existed for thousands of years. Their existence shaped, to a decent degree, how our modern civilization came to be.
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Albert Clettingbury - Thu, 10 Nov 2016 17:27:05 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207183 Reply
>>207163
>So what makes you think that large group of like minded people with an somewhat of unified mission can't stay below common knowledge?

The problem is with intent.

A secret society can exist yes.

A secret society that controls society as a whole cannot exist.

You cannot hold power through secrets. It is an inefficient way to hold power, someone can easily take away your power through their own machinations or just through taking your power openly.

>>207164
Criminal organizations don't hold power over society. They're just companies that don't exist on paper.
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Eliza Honeywell - Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:52:53 EST +nV+PPCP No.207184 Reply
>>207183
>Criminal organizations don't hold power over society.

I don't believe that's true at all. Look deeper into the history of organized crime in America. These people routinely extorted the common man, ran entire industries, and controlled the police force and politicians, for fucksake. Nobody was immune unless you gave them what they asked. And the early 20th century was just another chapter in it's long history. How is that not control?
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Samuel Summlestock - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 03:50:55 EST 0aDGMcny No.207185 Reply
>>207184
From the perspective of the Koch bros, even Al Capone is just like some dirty kid who makes a living snatching pocket change. There's a difference between being rich and powerful and actually controlling society.
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Barnaby Chugglewack - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 06:26:31 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207186 Reply
>>207184
The only time criminals have ever had control over society was when they controlled society openly, like when the Allies allowed the mafia to control large parts of Italian society because the mafia fucking hated the nazis and fascists. Or how Putin is in cahoots with the Russian mafia and they basically act like a fourth power in Russian society.

But a criminal organization cannot control society for a long time. It is too unstable. All those mafia groups in the USA and even in Italy all eventually lose power - either they fuck themselves up, or the cops get a man on the inside.
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Some Young Guy - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:03:10 EST uaVntyCr No.207208 Reply
>>207142
Yes and no. Things change and often times these shadow groups are disbanded because of internal conflict and 'artistic differences'.

Look into the rosicrucians. They're not dead but they're not alive in the same way they used to be. There's a lot more to what used to be called alchemy than most people might assume. It's not about changing iron into gold but rather changing iron people into golden examples. Just a little bit of a big thing to think on..
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Samuel Summlestock - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:07:11 EST 0aDGMcny No.207210 Reply
>>207208
>>the rosicrucians...they're not alive
They look pretty alive to me:
https://rosicrucian.org/
Granted they aren't as powerful as they once were, but that's because they were the OG secret society and originally had a monopoly on it. Now their children continue the great work.
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Some Young Guy - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 17:39:02 EST uaVntyCr No.207213 Reply
>>207210
That iteration may as well be scientology. There is a large "rosicrucian" presence in the world but they're mainly ran openly by people looking for personal gain over global. Just keep digging friend.
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Samuel Summlestock - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:02:22 EST 0aDGMcny No.207214 Reply
>>207213
WTF are you talking about? I know Rosicrucians and I know Scientologists and there is zero common ground (except of course that Scientology is a badly rewritten OTO copypasta.) Secret societies have always been about influencing the world, that's often in their mission statements. These people practice the Rosicrucian rituals on the classical model, so I don't see how you can get away with saying they aren't Rosicrucian. What standard would you have them meet?
I don't have to dig son. This shit is where I live.
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Barnaby Hockleson - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:14:14 EST uaVntyCr No.207215 Reply
>>207214
I don't mean they're just like scientology. Consider how most of these groups only accept applicants that can pay to join and then keep paying to ascend to each new level. That's not what the group was about. There are people using the name to profit and there are people working outside of the name to push toward a tomorrow that's a little better than today with no intention of personal profit. It's easy to take a meaningful name and turn it into something that can make people feel good about themselves without actually working under the original intent of the founders. It's much harder to genuinely and consistently do the right thing.

There are people out there that connect solely to meet goals on a global scale that run with groups you both have and haven't heard of.

To take anything in this world for it's face value is to rob yourself of true understanding.
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Samuel Summlestock - Fri, 11 Nov 2016 18:26:47 EST 0aDGMcny No.207216 Reply
>>207215
As a member of such societies I can say that as a general rule they all have application fees, only accept such applicants as they think are appropriate to be a part of them, have monthly dues, fees for initiations into higher grades, and the dues also increase with higher grade. They're generally money-bound organizations because they're intended for more elite people and have the goal of actually reshaping the world in a temporal sense, not in a purely spiritual way. It was always like this back to the earliest versions of all the orders. If you wanted to be a classical Rosicrucian, you already had to be rich as fuck and educated as fuck to not be marked for a rube trying to walk in the door.
Of course no organization is ever able to stay perfectly true to the intent of its founders. Just look at the USA. But that doesn't mean that they still aren't a continuation of the same thing, and that there aren't elements of the original in the modern day. I mean, when you're following the exact same form, and the truths are encoded into the ritual and symbolic forms, if you're receptive some of it will get through, no matter how many of the other people there are only there for less pure motives.

Your closing lines are generally true statements but if they're meant to be a dig at what I'm saying they're pretty non-sequitur.
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Esther Blytheman - Sat, 12 Nov 2016 02:19:13 EST uaVntyCr No.207218 Reply
>>207216
Don't you think letting only those wealthy enough to pay the way in is a bit counter productive if the ultimate goal is about empowering all humans? I admit I'm entirely self educated on the organization but it seems to me to be fairly clear that something with all inclusive goals shouldn't be exclusively taking in people that already have decent standing.

My original point was this; there are people who openly use the name rosicrucian and there are people practicing the beliefs and the teachings under different names. For a time they were a successfully secret organization. It's possible for a group of people to come together covertly and efficiently to work toward a singular goal. These groups don't always stay secret but that a "large shadow organization" can exist in some way or another is very much a reality.

I admit that I did stray from the topic in trying to inspire people to search into these kinds of groups themselves. It seemed appropriate in the moment. What can I say? I am human.
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Reuben Collersteg - Sat, 12 Nov 2016 03:15:26 EST 0aDGMcny No.207220 Reply
>>207218
I can't speak for all the groups, but the idea is that the member's jobs is to do that kind of public outreach to less elite individuals out of their own personal effort. If someone is found who has genuine potential but isn't as well off, often waivers are granted, because the fees are there to a) make the organization strong and not have to be focused on constantly begging and b) to simply provide a barrier to entry so that the average rabble can't just walk in. Those who are advanced interiorily and just happen to be stuck in the rabble, it is hoped, will be spotted and picked out (obviously, it doesn't work that well anymore considering how big the population is nowadays, but that's the theoretical underpinning of why they do that.)
To your original point: most of those classical secret societies became public because they were already so old and established and had basically already been 'leaked' to the public, and so each at a various time chose to came out, but there are splinters and descendants and groups inspired by them, etc. that of course still remain fully exclusive and fully secret, as you suggest. What we see is the tip of the iceberg. Obviously many of those have diverged from the spiritual ideals and are purely clubs, or purely focused on obtaining power, or are purely elite social networks, or whatever. So yeah I'm in complete agreement on the possibility of shadow organizations unlike that other poster, since I've seen the (outermost fringe) of that world firsthand.
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Alice Hoppertene - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 08:05:11 EST 54PBc7Id No.207248 Reply
>>207155
I'm not going to tell you to go kill yourself even though you so rudely said such a thing to me, but I will kill your retardation, hopefully.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Currency_speculation
Plus your ideas surrounding power are retarded.
>you can become even more powerful bringing down that secret society or inserting another secret society into the secret society.
Like, way to throw a bunch of cartoonish bullshit into a real conversation. We're talking about real people who do real things in the real world that have real effects on all of us, but they make sure that they're not in the spotlight so that nobody fucks with them, and undoubtedly plenty of people are working together on this, people like George Soros, people with unbelievable power. Like, a 'secret society' is literally as simple as a group of billionaire friends who want to change something about the world for their own benefits. It's not like Scientology or like a cult, it can literally just be friends.

Anyone familiar with Metal Gear Solid? Sure, it's fiction, but it's got some brilliant ideas.
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Jack Depperman - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 14:44:59 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207250 Reply
>>207248
>hurr durr allow me to link to a wikipedia article that says nothing, this will show that the satanic jewish martian hordes control the world

Great job, you fucking retarded schizophrenic freak. Now go kill yourself.
>>
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Alice Hoppertene - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 15:33:57 EST 54PBc7Id No.207251 Reply
>>207250
Lol dawg what the fuck is wrong with you? You're calling me schizophrenic, why? Because I made mention of one of the world's most notorious criminals/philanthropists, George Soros?

I'm still above you. I still won't tell you to kill yourself.
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Phyllis Suddlenore - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:24:05 EST 0aDGMcny No.207252 Reply
>>207248
Off-topic, I just wanted to say that Metal Gear Solid is best Solid, especially number 2 is a great intro to epistemology and secret history for the wide-eyed kids we all were when we played it.
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Polly Bunwill - Tue, 15 Nov 2016 18:49:04 EST 35qpmj3R No.207254 Reply
>>207252
Aeon Flux is another goodie for this kinda info. Different kind of secret society and its intentionally pretty tough to decipher initially, but its some quality educational entertainment for people that can look a little deeper.
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Priscilla Clayfuck - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 00:17:13 EST +nV+PPCP No.207256 Reply
>>207251
He's posting the same garbage on /n/. Somebody mentions Soros and this guy goes totally ape shit for some reason. Bizarre.
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Fucking Blytheshit - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 05:05:17 EST vjEKa5G+ No.207257 Reply
idgi what did george soros do that makes everybody argue about him so much on the political boards here the past few months?
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Cornelius Wacklefick - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 05:19:38 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207258 Reply
>>207257
It's some retarded conspiracy theory. The guy is the new Elders of Zion.
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Hedda Hoffingbit - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:06:08 EST 54PBc7Id No.207263 Reply
>>207252
You my nigga, Phyllis. That 30-minute thing that happens at the end of 2 where the Colonel turns out to be an AI was epic. It was an incredibly accurate prediction of many topics that came up like 10 years later, talking about fucking echo-chambers and propaganda on the internet and shit.

>>207256
Not everybody who talks about the same topics are the same person. Are you kidding me?

>>207257
The word 'conspiracy theory' doesn't apply to George Soros. George is the real deal. Period. There is no question about it. Anyone who calls it a conspiracy theory clearly has zero idea of what's even going on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Controversies

The man's a hero and a villain all at the same time. He's got a ridiculous amount of money and power and he's ridiculously smart; he does whatever the fuck he wants, laws or ethics be damned, but he plays by the rules as much as he has to.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/soros-memo-blm-federalized-police/
http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/the-roots-of-black-lives-matter-unveiled/

What's the point, though? The point is, people like George Soros exist. The Koch brothers exist. The DuPonts exist. The Clintons exist. The Bushes exist. People who have enough power to reshape countries exist, and you'd have to lack common sense to think they'd never work together off the record for common goals, the kinds of goals that end with you controlling half of the presidential candidates and having them all support certain specific agendas.
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Hedda Hoffingbit - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 14:09:17 EST 54PBc7Id No.207264 Reply
>>207263
That being said, conspiracy theories exist; don't think for a second they don't. Just because George Soros is the real deal doesn't mean there aren't outrageous conspiracy theories based on him. There's outrageous conspiracy theories surrounding tons of people. Hell, plenty of Democrats were sold this bullshit conspiracy theory that Putin controlled Trump.

Here's the issue. There are tons of things not talked about in the news that are news, and then there are tons of things both talked about and not talked about in the news that are pure conspiracy theory. And sometimes these truths and conspiracy theories surround the same subject, sometimes even citing some of the same things about that person or their actions.

Just because there's a theory floating around Fox that Soros is a secret Nazi doesn't mean Soros didn't really purposely tank a country's economy and fund a violent revolt.
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Graham Huffingnere - Wed, 16 Nov 2016 18:06:34 EST 0aDGMcny No.207267 Reply
>>207263
On MGS: *brofist*
On George Soros/ Conspiracy theories:
The thing about conspiracy theories is that they are almost always organized around a kernel of truth (like all mythology) but that due to 1. the inherent lack of information which lets you fill in the gaps in a purely Rorschach test kind of way 2. the fact that of the people who are actively very interested in conspiracy theories, a larger percentage than in the normal population are going to have mental illness and thus will surround any given conspiracy theory with misinformation (this is not to say that you have to be crazy to believe in conspiracy theories, but that if you are certain kinds of crazy, you will almost certainly believe in them) the true kernel about any given conspiracy is going to be distorted through the lens of some claims that are merely false guesses and some claims that are truly outlandish and delusional.
It's important to be able to analyze all three components separately (i.e. the delusional claims, the misinformed claims, and the root of the controversy)
I think the most telling example of this 'evolution' of conspiracy theory is the claim of there being or being a plan to create a NWO. People get all hyped when any bit of evidence about it falls through the cracks, go insane over trying to convince people that this is happening, that the global elites are trying to create a unified world society. Thing about it is...that's totally true, and if you ask anybody they will admit it. Ever since the advent of the modern nation-state and especially since WWII, global political, financial, scientific and cultural elites have been trying to bring the whole world together under a unified system of law and order with the stated purpose of preventing a World War from ever happening again.
That fact, half in the open and half submerged in the collective unconscious, gets distorted and twisted in the conspiracy theorist's mind into assuming there is an enemy behind every corner. They then quickly make value judgements about others intentions (Soros contributing to BLM must be because he is trying to create a state of global chaos, not because he is in philanthrophy circles and it's a popular liberal cause, right?) and then whatever truth may be lying at the root of the conspiracy gets drowned out. In a way we are watching the collective subconscious filtering system of the human psyche processing it's reality in different parts; the parts of the mind that are able to accept a fact, and the parts that cannot accept it directly and thus must make additional excuses in service of a pre-existing emotional alignment.
TL;DR: We obviously are not ever going to know everything that happens behind the scenes, and almost all complaints about secret things are because of some genuine root cause, but we will also always distort the truth about any secret to the point that the truth itself is virtually inaccessible.
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Nell Farringtane - Thu, 17 Nov 2016 15:01:41 EST 54PBc7Id No.207273 Reply
>>207267
Amen to all that.
As for Soros and BLM, well, he did actually pay people to protest like 24/7. Like it bothers people that months and months of protest were bought and paid for rather than actual protests; people call it 'astro-turfing' as opposed to 'grass-roots'.

But also, so what'd you think of MGS4 and 5? Personally, I thought the story of 4 was epic, but 5 had sweeter and smoother gameplay. That being said, I'm upset you never had the ability to call in friendly AI soldiers decked out in specific gear. 5 had a cool story, too, but I mean the story was unfinished and there's like unfinished cutscene locked away in the game that you can't even reach. Why the fuck did Konami have to sour their relationship with Kojima, their greatest asset?

But yeah, as for MGS2, I was really confused by the Colonel's speech at the end of the game, like I thought it was techno-babble when I was just a boy playing the game, but now that I'm an adult and I went back and re-watched a lot of the cutscenes in that game, I see exactly what they were talking about, like to the letter. Kojima's view of the internet and how it works was incredbly accurate at the time and he talked about things it seemed like no one was talking about or noticing at that time in history. Kind of like how Serial Experiments Lain does the exact same thing, except even more impressively they did it in like 1998 where as MGS2 was like 2001.
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Archie Dezzlehood - Thu, 17 Nov 2016 18:56:15 EST 0aDGMcny No.207276 Reply
>>207273
Before the haters come in and shut down the MGS circlejerk: personally MGS4 is my favorite game in terms of the plot, it is the pinnacle of the over-wrought hyper-convoluted Japanese-style storytelling that propelled MGS to the stratosphere. MGS5 is undeniably a superior game in terms of all gameplay mechanics...but the story is genuinely weak sauce, and a large part of that is that it's literally about ~30% of the complete game, reworked to look like it's finished. If you're up on this stuff I'm sure you know all about the Kojima/Konami fallout, it honestly had a lot to do with both of them reacting from their own perspective to seismic shifts in the game industry but wanting to go different directions (mainly the emergence of freemium and service based games.) As a dev myself I appreciate what Kojima must have gone through -- but at the same time I'm pretty pissed that he had more time, more money, and a bigger team on MGS5 than MGS4, but wasn't able to give it a coherent story or even a complete gameplay arc, yet was able to fill it with useless shit like a 4 part audio mini-series on hamburgers. Yet I'm still out there hunting soldiers for my Mother Base like a...Boss ;)

As for the MGS2 philosophy bits, yeah the first time you play it as the 4th wall breaks down you really don't have any idea whats going on, but it's actually amazingly well structured. I think this kind of 'reality breakdown' sequence is something that Japanese media does uniquely well (Evangelion and Lain are indeed the ultimate examples of this, we must be cut from the same media cloth) and, since we're in the secret societies thread, I will say that all three draw heavily on Qabalistic inspiration to inform these sequences. And yeah, the stuff about information control, managing the internet, memes, is totally prophetic for today (although even back then futurists saw it coming, I mean if you want to know about today Gibson's Neuromancer will still tell you pretty much everything you want to know) in fact it was kind of directly prophetic -- they had to change the New York attack sequence in between the time they finished it and the time they released it, because 9/11 happened. Same with MGS4, set in 2014 and released in 2008 -- in 2008 it seemed like the wars were coming to an end, a Democratic and anti-war victory seemed like a sure thing, and yet Snake accurately projected a world of endless conflict where borders and nations are no longer relevant and powerful forces are engaged in faceless, meaningless proxy battles.
So we have always assumed that the MGS2 ex-president George Sears -- Solidus, who is also a clone of Big Boss -- was the stand-in for Bush, and the black president Johnson you have to save is clearly Obama. But given the new things we know about Big Boss and his plan first to create the Patriots and then destroy them indirectly from within...is president Sears more like Trump? Is Trump Big Boss' clone? *vomits*
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Jarvis Clemmerfield - Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:51:40 EST Ry/UiP1R No.207310 Reply
>>207155
The only thing a secret society needs to function is for all the interests of the member's of the society to align. Also, there needn't be a large, unified society where everyone is a member and everyone conspires together and shares in some master plan for the same practical effects as a conspiratorial secret society. It just happens on a smaller scale. Because the groups of people involved are small and interconnected (think billionaires) there is a high amount of interconnectivity within the entire group. An idea can be floated that takes ahold of the entire group and/or is debated within the group without any sort of formal meetings. The ideas simply spread in the normal virus-like way they do. The only difference is that they all have similar self interests and upbrings, and there are much less of them so the group is more unified than the general public. They are also in a position of great power within our society and actually do have the means to influence the country, unlike normal people.

I think Caroline might have been on to something with her cabal theory >>207150 because certainly these groups would be like little social circles of the immensely wealthy and powerful and there would be some competition between them even though their interests too align.

Basically conspiracies exist they're just much less ordered and formal than most people imagine them to be.
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Oliver Dombleson - Fri, 25 Nov 2016 18:20:34 EST aEaeNBh+ No.207318 Reply
>>207310
You're skipping over the effect that all kinds of small little conspiracies have on each other.

Infighting.

Why do you think that so often (anonymous) whistleblowers leak information on organisations? Conflicts of interest.

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