Illogic.

Cornelius Grimfield - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 07:07:30 EST wGBBLTy5 No.208814

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I am so tired of illogical people. I am so tired of someone having the audacity of saying “I’m using facts and logic” when They’re pushing logical fallacies and backing them up by overlooking facts that detract from the argument.

Why does everyone have this mentality “I have to win the argument.”? Like I’ll correct someone using my knowledge, using first-hand experience and using hard evidence, and instead of learning from me they exclaim an illogical conclusion they illogically jumped to via a singular fact they know about the subject, and then just because they have 1 fact and 1 (irrational) reason they say “You can’t argue with me; I am the voice of logic and facts!”
I am so sick of the excuses. I am so sick of everyone running in fear from appearing to lose an argument. Like good god, growing and learning is much more valuable than being petty, than getting in the last word like a witty little cunt. I just don’t know how to reach peoples’ hearts, and I can’t say for sure whether Its my fault or their fault.

Shit Worthingcocke - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 07:38:46 EST Q2wCcWf6 No.208816 Reply

>>208814

>>I cant say for sure whether its my fault or their fault

you never know do you? thats the point. sometimes your argument seems better from your standpoint but little do you realize that key points of evidence you are relying on come from sources that are untrustworthy. maybe your opponent is not able to adequately explain logical reasons for why he or she does not accept some fact you are citing

its possible to have the better argument from a perspective that what you have claimed follows logically from the facts you cite, while simultaneously being wrong. it is also possible for somebody to have a better inductive justification for their belief than you do but they have explained their inductive justification poorly, and so you feel they should be persuaded and maybe they even notice that your argument sounds better but they still arent persuaded because they know they've misstated their own argument

what do you take from this? try to calm down and have faith in humanity, we've achieved some pretty awesome things despite being stupid assholes sometimes, and if you try your best to really understand another person's point of view and why they believe what they do, you might learn something, at the very least you'll be much more successful and persuading people to see things your way if you can pinpoint the crucial mistakes they are making

Oliver Sendlecocke - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 08:42:09 EST 8gq7GAVV No.208817 Reply

People want to win arguments because the mental process that recognizes "Oh shit, I'm wrong" uses the same regions in your brain that process physical pain. Now, this doesn't mean being wrong makes you feel physical pain, but your ape brain will try to steer you away from realising you're wrong, because it simply tries to avoid any action that uses the part of your brain that processes physical pain.

Hedda Gusslebit - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 12:22:26 EST w8qDl8j3 No.208821 Reply

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>>208814
I read this post in Palpatine's voice, and it made it a lot better. Anyway, unfortunately, your complaint about illogic is illogical, captain.
While it's true that it's becoming much more common for people to harp on about knowing something while being utterly wrong (thanks internet) beyond that, what it ultimately means to be 'logical' is to approach the world with a certain coherent set of impulses, assumptions, and responses, that ultimately make sense only to you.

Your 'logical' is totally different from someone else's. Even if you were so personally and ideologically identical to someone else that you agreed with one another on every single philosophical point you could imagine, and were forced to live with them for years and years, eventually some difference would emerge in your thinking on some situation and you would be forced to think, 'they are so illogical!'
This is because everyone's vantage point on the universe is inherently different. This is why we need each other, and also why we need society to mediate our differences, because we can't all be machines that think with one unified program 'Logic' and even if we tried, our interpretations would always differ and we're back where we started.

But that's just semantics, what you really mean is you want people to be more robust in their discourse, which I completely agree with. Encourage the values along those terms (learning from conflict and seeking resolution, courage in the face of disagreement, consistency in thought and action, etc) rather than just calling people 'illogical' and you might have more success.

Samuel Sapperwater - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:55:16 EST k7ALkz1e No.208827 Reply

it's ego dude. people cherry-pick random shit that makes them feel good and mash them into a concept of self-identity, often clinging to various tribelabels. if you come along with a fact that disrupts their construct of self, they subconsciously perceive it as a violent existential threat and double down to fight it at all costs. it takes luck and/or lots of introspection and/or training from others to be able to avoid this instinctual defensive reflex but unfortunately most humans never get those things so politics remain grossly primitive in the digital age.

Edwin Dramblesterk - Tue, 27 Feb 2018 20:19:24 EST PrNWoDJw No.208829 Reply

>>208827

Yeah its called saving face. Everyone believes they are right all the time. Whether its the way you walk down the street or how you ordered your food at McDonalds. You did it the right way. Even if you clearly are wrong in a argument you are going to think of reasons that support your argument. Politicians do it all the time on live television.

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