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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Gen Z and the future of social liberties

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- Sun, 29 Dec 2019 20:33:43 EST fGHDtkRk No.209898
File: 1577669623343.jpg -(32233B / 31.48KB, 612x612) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Gen Z and the future of social liberties
https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/

I just thought this was interesting and completely contradicts the prevailing notion I see in some places that our generation is somehow more "right-leaning" or "conservative" than millenials. I think there is this weird tiny but vocal clique among extremely online Gen-Zers (which is a relatively small clique in and of itself) that are people at various stages of falling down the alt-right pipeline. Call it the "PewDiePipeline" if you really want to piss these people off, because he's a spotless victim of the ebil newspapers that have the audacity to report the things he says and does

But mentioning that, it is a little concerning that one of the most popular personalities on one of the most popular platforms among generation Z is a guy that keeps coming closer and closer to flirting with outright, unironic, fascism. That said, I don't think most of his kid fan base gives a shit, they just want to see the funny screaming swedish man, but they might internalize enough of what he says that they start to believe the garbage he peddles. He unironically told his 50 million subscribers to read 12 Rules for Life lmao, oh and there's the whole wearing an iron cross on a video where you announce you're rescinding a donation to an anti-hate organization, and the whole "death to all Jews" but it's actually a really funny joke xd, and following people like Stefan Molyneux and Millenial Woes on Twitter, and defending Jon Tron, and a bunch of other gaffs).

But I mean, his fans and YouTube reply guys in general are let's say not the most socially successful among us. So I really don't know how much influence the things they believe has on the real world.

And at the same time, more liberal personalities are coming to the forefront on a website that has historically had an undeniably reactionary user base. And despite the inherent contradictions of it, most of the "right-wing" Gen-zers still don't give a shit about race, gender or gender identity, sexuality, because they were brought up in a way where none of these things were even presented as contentious issues, shitty attack helicopter jokes not withstanding

So, are the kids alright?

Being 22 I am one, albeit on the older end that mostly rejects the title (personally I love my generation, and identify far more with them than millenials) but i have a very carefully selected social circle so i can't possibly have an unbiased opinion, most of the people I know are on the far Left, I just encircled myself with like-minded people because there's no reason not to in this day and age, but I try to get a feel for what people think as a whole, because that ultimately affects my human rights as a (currently) protected minority
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Betsy Criffingman - Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:31:26 EST CaA0NQxy No.209902 Reply
>>209898
You have a slightly, if I may dare to say, read out on this.

As people age what comes to the forefront in terms of that which matters changes.

The classic example of this being health in general, when you're young, you're immortal and indestructible, when you start to hit your 30s and 40s and so on obviously that changes and therefore your mindset about your health does as well.

Let me speak from experience as a, and god DAMMIT do I hate whatever fucking dumb shit blogger came up with this, millennial. And I can tell you point blank that you're going to see a great deal of unity among your generation for some amount of time then it will change.

I had the exact same hopes about my own generation being unified on a great many things. And in some ways that's true still. But as the circumstances became more complicated, especially after the 2006 (or 2008 if you insist) economic troubles I started to see people sort of react to that in ways that were predictable. Shame though it is. That's how it was. And so will it be with your own generation.

I will say this as one of those people who "grew up" in the early 2000s internet that, at least those who shared the mindset I have, were never as naive and as taken in as some of the younger kids are when it comes to internet shit. It's quite embarrassing to see YouTube develop into the "talk radio" of the internet in some respects.

Kids these days...
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Simon Climmerleck - Thu, 02 Jan 2020 10:48:36 EST OCK1Ol7I No.209903 Reply
>>209898
Sorry OP, but your post is full of untruths and misunderstandings.

None of the people mentioned have expressed any views even close to what Mussolini or Pinochet would recognise as fascism. Molyneux, Peterson and JonTron each have wildly different views, but the one thing the have in common is not being cowed by the Twitter mob.

You won't believe me, but you are in a far-left bubble.
Just take Peterson's book for example. It is simply a self-help book, nothing more nothing less. It's neither brilliant or terrible but a lot of young people could probably get something helpful out of it.
Please spend a little while thinking before you answer, why exactly shouldn't he recommended the book unironically?

Scott Adams' "one screen two movies" theory looks more accurate every day.
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Beatrice Worthingridge - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 20:39:36 EST VgefRj+N No.209914 Reply
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>>209903
>None of the people mentioned have expressed any views even close to what Mussolini or Pinochet would recognise as fascism

That doesn't mean anything at all, neither of those people would have identified themselves as "fascist" in today's context, the definition of words change over time and in different contexts, it's a very cheap deflection and one that you people have used way too much "thERe aRe No NaZIs tHe NaZI ParTy DisBanDEd in 1945"

>It is simply a self-help book, nothing more nothing less

You know this isn't true. It's clearly a very politically charged piece of work, the entire point of which is to couch reactionary ideology in trite self-help platitudes so that it seems innocuous. Obviously the wayward young men he's targeting could use the practical advise, but the greater narrative that he's going for is completely wrong. The alienation these young men are experiencing isn't from losing their place in some sort of objective social hierarchy rooted in nature, it's because of capitalism; i.e. the space between their work and its product and tyranny of bourgeoisie.

>Molyneux, Peterson and JonTron each have wildly different views, but the one thing the have in common is not being cowed by the Twitter mob

That's not the only thing they have in common and you know it.

>You won't believe me, but you are in a far-left bubble.

That's why if you lay out your views and their inevitable consequences to the average person without any obfuscation they tend to find them deplorable.

>Scott Adams' "one screen two movies" theory looks more accurate every day

Very hard hitting and astute "both sides are actually the same" take from the foremost philosopher and public intellectual of our times Scott Adams

Play on though. Play on.
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Beatrice Bimbledale - Mon, 13 Jan 2020 01:16:09 EST KZ13eD3E No.209920 Reply
>>209914
>"it's because of capitalism"

Oh- oh there it is.

FUCKING YAWN
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Beatrice Bellysag - Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:46:47 EST hcOExBer No.209922 Reply
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>>209920
As far as I know there aint any other human society which has such alienation. Before the dominance of capitalism and the privatization of the commons there were firm social bodies and networks of people to which everyone belonged. I don't mean to glorify serfdom or tribal hierarchies or something, just in general people have never been so isolated as they are now. Further, what would it mean to be undocumented and not a citizen of any nation-state?
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Simon Piblingson - Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:07:32 EST lmrIZ53D No.209924 Reply
>>209922
I would seem to me that you have the matter precisely backwards.

Social Conditions dictate Economic outcomes. Not the other way around.

Insofar as the broader matter of "alienation" from the community. How is that the fault of a Price System? That's more the fault of the reality of the loss of shared narratives in the social space which create the kind of cohesion that you're talking about.

And and, I would say that this is more common in environment where there are more people. That is to say, the "alienation" that you're talking about doesn't happen to the extent you seem to think it does when you have a town of less than, say, 1000 people where everyone knows each other and there's a church, shared narrative about life, religion, politics, etc.

The plurality of "perspective" and the alienation that comes theretofrom doesn't seem to be to be intrinsically related to the economic structure. By contrast, Economic Planning has no answer to "human happiness" because, quite frankly, that's not the function of Economics as a study/practice/or profession.
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Priscilla Dartdock - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:55:21 EST p+7ufF1/ No.209926 Reply
>>209924
The economy is how resources are distributed. You can't entirely isolate economic outcomes from social conditions because the economic outcome is a social condition.

In my country social spaces and enterprises have been defunded and sold so the rich can have tax breaks because the rich fund election campaigns and own most media. That's less direct than "your social conditions are different if you aren't allocated this resource" but just as significant. When you have the ability to change the social narrative and an economic incentive to do so (we need austerity, borrowing loads of money and making future generations is more sustainable than taxing us) then they become intertwined.

I used to think Marx was an idiot but actually it's just growth and technology have managed to offset a lot of the things he's said. But it could be a lot better. Not that full communism is any less retarded because that just gives different people an incentive and the ability to fuck with shit.

All that said alienation is over estimated by people experiencing it. But of course it is. Being alienated means your world is empty and lonely. It's hard to imagine anyone else living differently when you're disconnected from that phenomena and the only voices you hear in the darkness are people like you. The internet has amplified the feeling of being numerous in many groups.

>Economic Planning has no answer to "human happiness"
I think that's nearly far enough from the truth to be wrong. Nearly. Economics is resource allocation to satisfy wants and needs. You're right that it cannot create happiness but it can with things which have a huge bearing on happiness or create conditions which impede it. It cannot directly control happiness because that's individual but it can create incentives for society to operate in a fashion condusive to that.

Happiness cannot come from economics alone you are right, but it does often have the answer to it's absence.
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Fanny Pobberbod - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 18:29:31 EST fGHDtkRk No.209927 Reply
>>209924
>shared narrative about life, religion, politics, etc.

the thing about that is that all that stuff is bullshit that isn't real whilst dialectical materialism is objective fact
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Sidney Smallman - Sat, 18 Jan 2020 07:57:52 EST e1G/kf1c No.209928 Reply
>>209926
Everything you are describing relating to the Media and "the rich" etc is more related to the legislation passed by your goverment and not a result of the economic circumstances.

If your politicians are giving tax breaks to the rich it's because they are on the same team. That is a political calculation, not an economic one.

More to the point, isolation, loneliness, depression, etc, are all human features described for thousands of years. They are not new and are not a result of the economic structure in place.

>>209927

Right and you believing that is YOUR narrative, that's what you tell yourself is true in order to determine the order to the world. That's what a Narrative is.
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Jenny Worthingforth - Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:45:16 EST fGHDtkRk No.209929 Reply
>>209928
I mean you're right all forms of materialism are bullshit I was mostly taking the piss but I think it's more true than you're giving it credit for, as in, in this time and place I think it makes sense to view our situation through that lens, which is why I would say that I'm a post-leftist, as unhelpful of a term as that is
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Clara Gipperway - Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:25:41 EST hcOExBer No.209930 Reply
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>>209928
Seems the government system and economic system are inextricably tied, hence lobbyists, subsidies, trade agreements, tariffs, institutions that push bills like the American Legislative Exchange Council, or different cities' respective Business Alliances, or global economic institutions which dictate policy such as the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank.

The profit motive is a huge motivator for decision-making in businesses and government, often at the detriment of the well-being of life. For example planned obsolescence is more profitable than producing good quality objects because people have to repeatedly purchase something after it breaks. The stock market investors demand from the companies they have stocks in to maximize profit, but they ignore long-term effects, which is what a long-lasting and healthy economy would focus on. So companies make destructive choices for short-term profit which push enormous costs down the road.

Concerning alienation or isolation, since the existence of the commons pre-capitalist economy, publicly held and shared things and places where people originally gathered and worked together on, have been partitioned and privatized by government for businesses. There's not many public places where people gather anymore, and often public gatherings are discouraged through bureaucratic permitting processes or even threatened by law enforcement. Its a contestation of acceptable use of public (and private) space. With private space only the private-owners, which could be an abstract entity, dictate correct use, even choosing to exclude a huge swath of the population in favor of a minuscule wealthy elite that has exclusive access.

Further, take a look at the suburbs, which have no public gathering places, but only dispersed homes, and intermittent shopping centers. Even innercity has increasing limitations of places to gather and things to do together with others. Through the internet and mass communication people can interact quicker and easier, but the interactions occur with a separation of placetime. Sure people interact along cultural lines such as common hobbies they do together, or at old institutions such as church and school, but access to these institutions still largely depend on wealth, to pay for school, to afford to live in the area of the school or church, to afford to travel wherever.

For the hella poor, living on the streets, the city spends alot of money to force them from place to place with law enforcement, and if they gather somewhere to establish a self-governing encampment of sorts (because its easier to survive that way), then they are dispersed by law enforcement at the urging of the local business alliance. That's why the business alliances try to pass laws like the Sit/Lie ordinance which makes it illegal for the hella poor to be on sidewalks near businesses. Sidewalks are public spaces mind you. From where I'm at the local judicial deemed the Sit/Lie Ordinance illegal, but similar variations are pushed by the wealthy elite against the hella poor.

I'm curious to hear your responses. Thanks for reading this.
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Nigel Dreblingbut - Sun, 19 Jan 2020 12:06:05 EST p+7ufF1/ No.209931 Reply
>>209928
Economics is allocation of resources. The truth is you can't just disentangle economics from politics.

They are on the same team but not in some ideological "evil vs good" way but rather the politicians help the rich get rich and get media support and consultancy jobs when they're done. I'm in a country where the PM didn't even do anything, the media fought the election for him and won.

Winning an election requires resources, sending the new national leader on an expensive holiday resources, you need a return on your investment. The economy is a system for allocating resources. Tax breaks is an economic decision because it affects resources. They can be political decisions too but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Politics and economic decisions (not the science, but how people actually decide how to allocate resources) are inextricably linked, economic action is a core subset of political ideology. They are not mutually exclusive and often are the same thing.
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Edwin Trotdock - Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:01:29 EST fGHDtkRk No.209977 Reply
>>209972
the trajectory indicated by the study I posted and almost all other public opinion survey's would seem to imply the opposite, even if some of the respondents are only saying what they know they're "supposed to", think about that for a second, how powerful of an impulse that is that people feel compelled to lie on anonymous surveys, there is no way not to internalize that to some extent, and the kids being brought up today are being brought up in such a way that this isn't seen as a contentious issue, there is no alternative narrative, you're seen as standing in opposition to objective reality, which you are

people are waking up alright, be honest with yourself, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows :)
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Sidney Dronkinham - Sat, 29 Feb 2020 22:22:11 EST 8gq7GAVV No.209986 Reply
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>>209972
You need to fuck off back to the future, cocksucking faggot.
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Albert Blatherbury - Thu, 12 Mar 2020 03:22:33 EST fGHDtkRk No.210010 Reply
>>210006
>it's not too late for you

You're right it's not, it is for you though fortunately

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