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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)
Forbidden truths Ignore Report Reply
Walter Choffingman - Tue, 02 Oct 2018 18:11:02 EST ID:wAgADJT8 No.892580
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Have you ever had an experience where you felt as if you have encountered a forbidden truth? Something which you shouldn't have known? I sometimes feel that, and it gives me sort of an existential anxiety.

This "forbidden truth" is something like solipsism and eternalism, like I'm preventing myself of acknowledging this fact or something is. I'm not saying I actually believe this to be the truth, but it kind of feels like it, which puzzles me. I also feel like my "destiny" is to find this truth which I'm seeking by any means necessary.

My theory is that I'm so puzzled my existence and its impossibility that I'm manifesting this in my trips. Any other insights you can think of?
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David Foblingletch - Tue, 02 Oct 2018 18:33:11 EST ID:ncWy+tY+ No.892581 Ignore Report Reply
>>892580

What is this forbidden truth you apparently encounter?

Most things you experience during trips are just recontexualised throughts via hallucinations. ie. you see something when you're tripping it means something different than it usually does sober and so what happens is, you disregard the sober reality version for the hallucination version.

It doesnt make the sober reality any less a valid perspective, but then you have to either trust the concensus or you can break away from the pack, which is why on the internet the idea of "sheeple" and "unaware masses" is so tantilising because "they" dont experience what you experience, therefore confirming your uniqueness and discarding your mundanity.
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Martha Drasslewig - Tue, 02 Oct 2018 18:52:49 EST ID:TtURm4p5 No.892582 Ignore Report Reply
>>892581
>What is this forbidden truth you apparently encounter?
Like I said in the post, this "truth" (I don't like calling it like that, I just do because that's what it feels like under the effects) is multiple and consists of different things:
-something akin to solipsism a.k.a I'm the only thing that has ever existed and will exist
-that everything is loop-y, by that I mean that loops are present in everything that is (time is a loop, everything is bound to repeat itself for all eternity, etc)
-that everyone including my parents or philosophers are completely clueless and I'm foolish to take their word as fact
-that no matter how hard I look into myself or any matter, I will only find that it goes deeper

Thing is, these are all things that have been thought before by a number of people, however these people feel like they were "literally" me, in another instance of existence. All of them trying to figure shit out, but being ultimately unable to do so. Makes me feel like I'm completely nuts, which in turn makes me feel really empathic towards people who have mental illness. Sounds cliche I know.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. I just fucking hate loops.
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Edward Bevingsore - Tue, 02 Oct 2018 22:47:53 EST ID:7nwa2lft No.892583 Ignore Report Reply
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>>892582
Personally I feel like I have come to an understanding of the ultimate truth, the end of the philosophical road, the ultimate answer.
I think I was in a similar state to you a while ago, pondering solipsism and eternalism to the point of it destabilizing my mental state. But I finally reached the answer, so it's possible to reach a conclusion in my opinion, if you keep at it.
I'll try to describe it:
All things can be negated; to exist means to not be what you are not. You as a distinct entity (or any particular entity) can only be differentiated out of the infinite All-Things-at-Once by the intercession of Nothingness. Everything contains Nothing (not-Everything), and Nothing doesn't even contain Nothing (that is to say, it contains not-Nothing, or it contains Everything). Duality or paradox gives rise to all things. All metaphysical questions can be teased apart into a paradox, this is because paradox is the root of reality. The ultimate source, God, the Absolute, Wuji, etc., is both beyond paradox, and the source of paradox. It is beyond the dualities of "existence vs. non-existence", "everything vs. nothing", etc.

Acceptance of paradox is enlightenment.
Rejection of paradox is confusion.

>God is everything.
>God is nothing.
>God is not everything.
>God is not nothing.
Accept all of these in your mind at once and you will grasp the answer.

>You are everything.
>You are nothing.
>You are not everything.
>You are not nothing.
Accept all of these in your mind at once and you will grasp the answer.
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Billy Sastard - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 06:00:41 EST ID:eVNAnGDs No.892591 Ignore Report Reply
>>892583
>God is everything.
>God is nothing.
>God is not everything.
>God is not nothing.
>You are God.
>You are everything.
>You are nothing.
>You are not everything.
>You are not nothing.

This is a load of shit lmao. It doesn't make any sense.
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Betsy Brovingwell - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 06:00:56 EST ID:bDYMg8HY No.892592 Ignore Report Reply
>>892583
That sounds like deluded pseudophilosophical nonsense.
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Betsy Brovingwell - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 06:00:56 EST ID:bDYMg8HY No.892593 Ignore Report Reply
>>892583
That sounds like deluded pseudophilosophical nonsense.
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Angus Cuffingstock - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 13:51:17 EST ID:U5Y1ODJc No.892600 Ignore Report Reply
pseudophilosophical? I don't know if anything can even actually be considered "pseudo"-philosophy, it isn't science or anything. philosophy is just a bunch of musings about the nature of being.

also, sounds more like Hermeticism/Gnosticism (minus the religious aspect... aka Hermeticism at its core p much). it makes plenty of sense to me, given you actually try to understand what he's saying critically. all of what he's saying is capable of being true when considered in the context of everything we experience being mental.

sure, you can say that it doesn't accurately reflect the nature of existence from any objective kind of sense, but that would require being able to consider and experience reality in an objective manner in the first place, wouldn't it? any way we try to describe the nature of existence or the "truth" is going to fundamentally be half-true at best, and more likely entirely just entirely false.

that is to say, we can only ever experience reality in a form other than it truly is and must be... perceptions are inherently flawed interpretations of sensory information constructed into a model of reality that therefore can never be reality itself (in other words, images are not the phenomena they represent, otherwise they'd be those things and not symbolic understandings of them).

the ideas he espoused about god and you being everything and nothing, as well as not everything and not nothing (to be something, just not all of everything as a singular entity) are just the logical conclusions one comes to when breaking down the nature of our understandings and concepts of reality as mental beings capable of experience. all things that we can know or understand are become known and understood as a result of the comparison of the multitude of aspects between distinct concepts. how are things alike, and how are they different? to what degree? isn't the difference between a group of things and the similarities between them just a measure of one single thing, existing one a single spectrum whose poles are what call opposites? similarities are just differences that are smaller than considerably larger differences by comparison, and vice versa. cold is just a lack of heat, yet we consider them to be opposite, just as with dark being just a lack of light.

the key to it all is your perspective--how you choose to orient your understanding of disparities between any given things... in other words, where you decide the "middle" is. our sun is significantly hotter than our planet's core or atmosphere, yet at the same time it is colder than the hottest and brightest stars we measured and have confirmed to exist. the sun can therefore be said to be both cold and hot. those determinations are meaningless without any greater surrounding context (the lack of any even vaguely defined metric for measurement, which themselves are a man-made tool whose usefulness in application fundamentally requires specific comparisons to be made). the mind, unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, isn't a strict machine that evaluates inputs using an entirely logical process that produces specific outputs that will always be the output given the same inputs are plugged in as before. our understanding of the world and our perception is highly ambiguous and often times the connections we make between the aspects of given concepts can be weak, strongly, literally/concretely, and/or abstractly related to the concepts themselves and be equally as validly considered connections.
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Angus Cuffingstock - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 13:55:16 EST ID:U5Y1ODJc No.892601 Ignore Report Reply
Then you take into account that, despite appearing to be highly differing phenomena, any events the result of physical/energy interactions or different "objects" themselves are ultimately made up of the same identical fundamental particles. Or perhaps a better way of saying it, is that they're all just various specific arrangements of quantum vibrations/wave functions that can give rise to new arrangements of interacting waves/vibrations in an endless cascade of them. we can simply everything to waves, to specific particles, meaning everything is identical on a real fundamental level, yet those new arrangements that result from their interaction create forms of matter, energy, objects, etc., that we firmly know to be distinct from one another despite being made up of the same shit on the lowest levels. everything is the same, everything is different; nothing is the same, nothing is different; somethings are the same; somethings are different. replace the words "everything", "nothing", and "something" with any concepts or words you like, it holds equally true. our understandings of it everything/anything must necesssarily be capable of being considered simultaneously on one hand to be one way, and also on the other hand to be another way or the opposite way. things cannot be unless they cannot also not be--though, whether something IS or IS NOT depends almost entirely on when it is, when it isn't, as well as where it is, and where it isn't.

I mean really, despite my fucking ridiculously long post, these aren't difficult concepts to grasp. Ultimately you cannot find a logical workaround to avoid this truth, yet in all/just as many ways you can. Why? Because none of, yet also some of and all of that which you consider is true and is also false depending on which ways you choose view/consider them. We create our own definitions for all that we can experience, constructing boundaries that are as rigid or flexible as we choose to make them between one thing and another thing. If we construct a rigid defintion of something and compare it to something else, they will appear all that much more distinct from one another, and likewise vice versa. This discussion is pretty much just a great example of where all our definitions of things start to break down and become more open and flexible paradoxically as a result of trying too hard to define the boundaries more rigidly and they begin to catastrophically fail to accurately describe what we're defining such that the boundaires we've constructed effectively reverse polarity and become more loose/open the greater our rigid classifications begin to fail. Upon realizing this, you realize no matter what we way you choose to see something, you can and always will wind up always being able to see it another way, making them things that you would consider them not when seeing them in each of those different ways. Nigga seemed fairly spot on to me
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Angus Cuffingstock - Wed, 03 Oct 2018 14:01:56 EST ID:U5Y1ODJc No.892602 Ignore Report Reply
TL;DR

It makes sense unless you're either really narrow-sighted/minded, suck at critical thinking, are just flat out too dumb or ignorant to get it, you're too lazy to actually think about it yourself, or you're so biased and closed-minded that you decide to reject the ideas outright on the very face of them.

Read up on Hermeticism by reading the Kybalion or studying up on the ideas of Gnosticism. If you still find their must fundamental core principals to be ridiculous, then try reading it while tripping nuts or something and hope that it actually helps you get just how infirm our concepts of reality and everything in it actually are. Said concepts are by their nature, emerging as a result of our mental consciousness producing processes, only ever capable of being at best, half-true. If you still think all that is nonsense, then it's likely that, for at least the time being, it's all simply above your head and you aren't going to be capable of understanding it without some kind of significant change or event in your life taking place that alters your understanding of existence thoroughly enough to reveal how infinitely pliable everything we think we know about anything actually is.
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Edwin Cluvingfene - Sat, 06 Oct 2018 17:56:33 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.892657 Ignore Report Reply
There cannot be a thing as "forbidden truth" unless you talk about some reality-destroying weapon, such as theoretical vacuum imploders or strangelet infectors.

The idea that some "truths" are forbidden are fucking retarded nonsensical ancient bullshit.
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Hugh Brunkingold - Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:59:29 EST ID:bbnRawmA No.892660 Ignore Report Reply
>>892593
Welcome to /psy/
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Edwin Paffingluck - Wed, 20 Feb 2019 19:51:11 EST ID:pgTndSSD No.893932 Ignore Report Reply
>>892583
I'm a monist, when you say that God is nothing, I am inclined to interpret this as god is no thing, that is to say that one cannot put one's finger on God or the Absolute as it is all encompassing, "God" is the totality, pleroma, the monad or the universe prior to any differentiation, in itself and self-contained
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Fuck Cinnerstut - Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:45:41 EST ID:4Kk3JT3E No.893933 Ignore Report Reply
Yeah but I've forgotten all of them
I knew that in my case they would be transient and no matter what I'd get sucked back in, so I went through some graphomanic phases but through hard data losses, as well as cryptic/not very well articulated writing, it's all basically gone
I kinda envy you guys who still have whatever it is that's required to do this stuff
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Augustus Clacklebat - Thu, 21 Feb 2019 01:44:44 EST ID:pzvvuEkP No.893937 Ignore Report Reply
I definitely get that. Like our brain has filters to let us not access certain things, but hallucinogens (including dissociatives in this too) let us bypass it. All hallucinogens have that sort of "forbidden fruit" vibe to me.
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Hannah Pogglewater - Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:44:36 EST ID:6jgdns7h No.893958 Ignore Report Reply
>>892580
I have felt the solipsism and eternalism, along with existential anxiety particularly on higher dose trips (250ug+). If there is any truth in this life, it may be something along those lines...
More specifically, reality is a construction of our mind, and that there isn't really anything there. the highest dose I ever took (just over 300ug) had me feeling that existential loneliness and solipsism in the middle of a party, all the people around me felt like "fake" people, as if they were prop actors or something in the narrative that is my life.
I found the writings and podcasts of Kapil Gupta are along this vein of thinking, but not exactly, and he actually calls psychedelic usage "the lowest a man can get." Ironic because I didn't understand his writings until I took psychedelics. but maybe something you want to take a look into
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Phineas Hablinglock - Sat, 23 Feb 2019 10:08:35 EST ID:OIz9GVZu No.893962 Ignore Report Reply
Epic Bro
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Phineas Hablinglock - Sat, 23 Feb 2019 10:09:19 EST ID:OIz9GVZu No.893963 Ignore Report Reply
>>893962
Truly epic that you all exists
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Molly Chollerhitch - Sat, 23 Feb 2019 17:11:23 EST ID:orOv8TrE No.893965 Ignore Report Reply
I'm lost in that, op. I get that feeling all of the time. I know that we truly don't know what existence is, so we're all kind of jumbling around in this seemingly unformed experience, trying to make sense of what's actually happening. If there's any purpose, or goal, it's seemingly indecipherable, and wholly subjective.

It's kind of upsetting to me because it feels like no matter what, no matter how strongly you feel towards something, that desire or will could be wholly baseless. I just try not to get lost in an existential quagmire. I do what I can to better myself, but that existentialist dread sets in randomly sometimes.

I like what >>893937 says about having a "forbidden fruit" vibe. I definitely gel with that. When you start reaching the limit of a break through experience where you're the most out of yourself, the most consciously in contact with the "other side," that's when the magic happens.
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Jarvis Cibberkug - Mon, 25 Feb 2019 01:08:21 EST ID:iXyO/5Us No.893981 Ignore Report Reply
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i've experienced the solipsism and eternalism as well, and i also agree that it's related to something like a forbidden ultimate truth. the eons of history with all it's ineffable efforts finally create me, practically making my individual (solipsistic) journey of the soul: the entire point of the universe. the world's an eternal factory for "the journey of the individual"
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Jarvis Cibberkug - Mon, 25 Feb 2019 01:26:13 EST ID:iXyO/5Us No.893982 Ignore Report Reply
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>>893981

the eternal nature of the world + the point of the world is to cultivate a soul = reality is ephemeral/ethereal/immaterial it's a stage where a soul can begin to grow
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Awe God !!vVWR8L52 - Fri, 01 Mar 2019 18:17:37 EST ID:D/AIDsXo No.894033 Ignore Report Reply
>>893981
>the world's an eternal factory for "the journey of the individual"
That dings a big ol' dong in this part of the factory, rider.
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Awe God !!vVWR8L52 - Fri, 01 Mar 2019 18:20:54 EST ID:D/AIDsXo No.894034 Ignore Report Reply
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>>893982
>begin
So I guess we're always at the beginning and yet the plot always thickens


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