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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)
DMT idiots Ignore Report Reply
Molly Bruzzlehood - Mon, 04 Mar 2019 10:35:25 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894061
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Why do some people get so mad when you say LSD is much more powerful than DMT?

Just because DMT will cost you nothing and you can easily do heroic dosages of it doesn't make it more powerful than LSD.

I've never done a thumbprint, but logic tells me that a thumbprint will absolutely blast any kind of DMT experience out of the water.
>>
Wesley Hendlehall - Mon, 04 Mar 2019 15:51:02 EST ID:eDdaRyot No.894064 Ignore Report Reply
>>894061
it's about the active dose

Someone isn't going to always take acid to disappear from reality for 8 hours, plus the chance of getting hold of enough crystal to do a thumbprint is rare, and yes hella expensive.
However, with DMT the dose you take is usually always the breakthrough/ jsub-breakthrough but close. It would be very hard to say, do the equivalent of a 1 tab trip with DMT.

It's like saying that you don't believe meth is stronger than caffeine because you can do heroic doses of pure caffeine and get a stronger stimulant effect than meth. Sure if you look at it that way it's true, but in general use you'll have a cup of coffee, not go on a 3 day bender and masturbate for 14 hours after snorting 30 lines of pro-plus in a row.
>>
Betsy Grandcocke - Tue, 05 Mar 2019 02:32:47 EST ID:orOv8TrE No.894076 Ignore Report Reply
>>894061

>increase normal dose of LSD by 50X and then compare it to a normal dose of DMT
>Hurr durr LSD is stronger
>>
Caroline Pockway - Tue, 05 Mar 2019 03:51:47 EST ID:MU5DQUTc No.894077 Ignore Report Reply
>>894064
>in general use you'll have a cup of coffee, not go on a 3 day bender and masturbate for 14 hours after snorting 30 lines of pro-plus in a row.
speak for yourself
>>
Frederick Bunshaw - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 01:51:49 EST ID:Z+7BKpbJ No.894143 Ignore Report Reply
>>894077
i don't think you know what "general use" actually means, do you?
>>
Fanny Bliggletere - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 03:19:20 EST ID:BtMeZlJt No.894144 Ignore Report Reply
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>>894061
Your anus is quite proficient at producing opinions
>>
George Brookhall - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 05:16:13 EST ID:MU5DQUTc No.894145 Ignore Report Reply
>>894143
I do
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Ernest Billinggold - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 09:28:19 EST ID:5dmnQv+b No.894149 Ignore Report Reply
>>894145
i see
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Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 17:52:26 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894157 Ignore Report Reply
>>894061
If you have not free based 2g of nn-dmt you have no clue dude. LSD is great but you are so sober while tripping. Yet on nn you are blown to a place that leaves your mortal coil a drooling child. I dont care how both are serotonin replacements dmt makes lsd looks like your best friend from freshman year in college. DMT is your professor it doesnt give a shit how un prepared you are for the lecture, but ti will blow your mind regardless.
>>
Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 18:00:15 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894159 Ignore Report Reply
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>>894157
regardless both teachers form the plant realm trying to wake your ass up, but try a cup of potent vine brew after your thumb and try and compare the two. DMT is already inside you trying to make you aware and it will show you things the bright light fun time LSD wont. Like mushrooms it will take you to a place you cannot even compare and you will come back with a deeper respect than you ever had before child of the vine.
>>
Nigel Clunningson - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 18:48:12 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894161 Ignore Report Reply
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>>894157
Oh sod off right to fucking /tinfoil/ you fucking braindead cunt. "teacher from the plant realm"

IT'S A BLOODY FUCKING CHEMICAL!
>>
Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 19:06:45 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894163 Ignore Report Reply
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>>894161
Thinking it's tinfoil that plants would try and communicate with their destroyers with the only means they have. Plants create THC and other things we enjoy to propagate, mushrooms make psilocybin and they propagate. How dare you think it's crazy that the plant world might make chemicals to make us more likely to protect and propagate them. Maybe you should take some good psychs and chill out zoomariono then maybe you wont be so closed minded to the bio-verse we live in and the chimerical that make those connections up.
>>
Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 19:12:12 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894164 Ignore Report Reply
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>>894163
When i say the only means they have, plants talk in chemicals. They are the masters of it and make things modern big pharma goes out to find in hopes for the next big cure. They perfected it over billions of years and to think that these plants and fungi have not developed a way to effect us you are a fool and a child in a world you barely understand.
>>
Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 19:24:38 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894166 Ignore Report Reply
>>894164
This is m,y last post for a bit because triple posting is frowned upon. Take some of the vine or a 10g dose of mushrooms and come and tell me that these are just chemicals and not gate keepers to a world we refuse to acknowledge because we assume we are the masters/top of the world.
>>
Nigel Clunningson - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 19:36:56 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894167 Ignore Report Reply
>>894166
Bitch I've already eaten 20g shrooms.

I've seen the light on the end of the tunnel, and it's just some fucking christmas lights that Terence McKenna forgot to take down.
>>
Oliver Blythewell - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 19:48:44 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894168 Ignore Report Reply
>>894167
oof begin this edgy. Joke aside I highly doubt your statement. Anyone that hos done that type of dose would talk about it so nonchalantly.
>>
Walter Bemmerlit - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:26:37 EST ID:JW61UJgD No.894169 Ignore Report Reply
>>894163
>imagine invoking evolution and plant production of psychedelics as a defense mechanism in an embarassing attempt to rationalize your "plants are teachers" tinfoilery
>>
Walter Bemmerlit - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:31:12 EST ID:JW61UJgD No.894170 Ignore Report Reply
>>894166
>imagine being so tinfoiled that even sober your reasoning would imply that a bullet going straight through your brain is some kind of surnatural entity because of its ability to warp your whole perception of the world for a split second before you die
>>
Caroline Sebbleput - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 20:36:38 EST ID:s1USd/an No.894171 Ignore Report Reply
>>894170
>>894169
Seething
>>
Walter Bemmerlit - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:02:41 EST ID:JW61UJgD No.894172 Ignore Report Reply
>>894171
Absolutely destroyed on that one, guess tinfoil wins, I got argued into oblivion
>>
Graham Findleson - Sun, 10 Mar 2019 22:27:29 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894175 Ignore Report Reply
>>894168
You better believe it. 20g is the low estimate by the way. I have no way of truly knowing because I made a lemontek tea with fresh shrooms. I forgot to set my scales properly, and I thought I had 10g "dry" converted into fresh. I was really high at the time, so I didn't think twice about how silly it is that a whole fresh shroom harvest would only be 10g "dry".

Because I've done such a high dose, I can easily talk about it nonchalantly because in that span of 8 hours, I've picked up the phone, gotten the message, and unplugged my phone so many times, I can be absolutely sure there's no magical plant ghost in the shrooms.

The only ghost in the shrooms is myself.
>>
Lillian Dablingdodging - Mon, 11 Mar 2019 00:14:59 EST ID:C3h8JEQf No.894176 Ignore Report Reply
>>894175
>TL;DR:
Believing mushrooms or plants are trying to communicate with us by producing psychedelics simply because it promotes a symbiotic relationship with us whereby we help propagate their continued existenec is like believing organelles were communicating with prokaryotes when the7 were consumed by them but not digested, leading to what would become eukaryotes. They were simply two distinct organisms whose interaction with one another resulted in benefits to each other's survival, which promoted and sustained the future interaction between both organisms until eventually changes in each other's genetic information led to both organisms being produced together from that point on, albeit (in this case) in modified forms that are neither the original organelle, nor the original prokaryote, but a new kind of "super being".

Correlation is not causation; dual survival benefits for both organisms from interacting with one another does not imply a will or desire for that outcome when it comes to either party when that interaction occurs.

>In depth reasoning behind my conclusion
That isn't communication, it's natural selection. Don't mistakenly attribute a will or desire to an admittedly serendipitous and beneficial coincidence that happens to facilitate said plant or fungi's propagation and continued survival. A will of any kind necessitates consciousness. Sometimes nature is capable of producing what we perceive as meaningful information that appears to be an attempt at communication by producing before us recognizable symbols merely by happenstance alone. If that which produces the symbols isn't capable of recognizing the symbols being "communicated", then no communication is in fact occurring.

Existence is a system made up of systems made up of systems, etc., of repeating patterns of motion in an endless succession of cycles. What we conceptualize as being information is just a predictable pattern of those cycles repeating in a specific arrangement and within a specific situational context. Two noises that are identical frequencies of vibration in a given interval of time are just just, two noises that we perceive as sounding exactly the same. When those two noises of identical frequency occur multiple times occurring in what is functionally identical temporal sequence is the fundamental groundwork for what is possibly the manifestation of information being transmitted through the atmosphere and has greater potential for that information being meaningful in some way. There is no dispute that the predictable arrangement of patterns repeating is in fact represents the creation of information, and that information's existence is an objective fact. What differentiates information from meaningful information is the receiving and perpcetion of that information by a conscious being that is capable of deriving significance from it. Likewise, what differentiates the simple transmission and reception of information from the communication of informaton is the manipulation of the underlying phenomena behind that information's creation and subsequent transmission of information out into the world by a conscious being with the intent of conveying one's own internal conscious ideas and concepts through while interacting with another conscious being capable of deriving an interpretation congruent to a significant degree of what's being symbolically represented by the other conscious being manipulating the underlying phenomena producing and transmitting that information into the external world.

Therefore, a living organism lacking any means of conscious perception on a level such that conscious self awareness accompanied by the conception of self-hood in some degree is present (i.e., a nervous sytem of some kind, which plants and fungi lack) is not capable of communicating meaningful information. It is only ever capable of transmitting information. Conscious beings may still be capable of deriving meaning from the information transmitted, but without any intent behind transmitting the information (more specfically, the information being transmitted is not being transmitted as causal result of the organism transmitting it desiring a specific outcome of some kind when transmitting it), it can't be considered as legitimate communication. Communication is a two-way street. Considering the chemicals these plants and fungi produce that happen to promote its propagation as a species through the interaction of another species capable of conscious awareness a form of communication is misattributing the significance behind the symbiotic relationship the two species share with one another to a will or desire rather than the function/byproduct of several natural processes. Believing mushrooms are trying to communicate with us by producing psychedelics
>>
Lillian Dablingdodging - Mon, 11 Mar 2019 00:46:32 EST ID:C3h8JEQf No.894177 Ignore Report Reply
honestly, i dont see why its so hard to avoid the trap of recognizing a false causal link behind the existence of the mechanisms underpinning the shared beneficial effects on survival correlated with two living things interacting with one another. in this particular case, what that means you believe is that plant derived psychedelics exist for us or whatever other beings get similar effects from them rather than for the plants the psychedelics are derived from. It's foolish and even pretty arrogant if you think about it.

When I see apples in a tree while walking outside and I'm hungry, I don't assume the apple is there for me; yet, the apple not only provides me with the nutritional sustenance I require to survive which gives me future chances to reproduce, but the fact that I eat the apple gives the seeds inside it a better chance of successfully germinating, but especially if I were to eat the core and all like most other mammals, leaving the seeds that pass through me undigested, the seeds not only wind up a good distance from the tree that produced it (which taking root near the parent tree could hinder the growth and survival of the young tree that takes root because of the major disadvantage it has when having to compete for the natural resources it requires for energy production being used up by its parent tree, like sunlight, root space in the soil, as well as water and nutrients like nitrogen in the soil), but covered in the natural fertilizer of my sweet, sweet nutrient dense fecal matter.

Shit just is the way it is, there's nothing because things happened to turn out that way over the course of events. There isn't any reason to assume there is intent behind any of it just because our the serendipitous nature of our symbiosis.
>>
Lillian Dablingdodging - Mon, 11 Mar 2019 00:53:28 EST ID:C3h8JEQf No.894179 Ignore Report Reply
>>894177
>Shit just is the way it is, there's nothing because things happened to turn out that way over the course of events.
there's nothing **being communicated/intended just because**....
>>
Fuck Wunnerson - Tue, 12 Mar 2019 05:56:59 EST ID:bfB0voM7 No.894200 Ignore Report Reply
>>894177
Keep telling yourself whatever the fuck you forced yourself to believe to retain your sanity, but stop trying to shove it down other people's throats. Nothing is worse than a religious evangelical atheist.
>>
Hugh Bamblestone - Wed, 13 Mar 2019 07:28:46 EST ID:50cMNwWH No.894222 Ignore Report Reply
>>894176
Ecologist here, thank you for talking some sense so I didn't have to.

However, this is just a garbage thread predicated on telling someone their preference is wrong at worst, and complaining about someone else arguing their preference is superior at best.

If you're talking about psychedelics in terms like "powerful" and comparing them as if there aren't things to be gained from most if not all psychedelics at a high enough dose, I don't see how you can take considerable doses of psychedelics and still look at them this way. "MY FAVOURITE TRIP IS BETTER THAN YOURS FAGET" isn't constructive.

>>894200
This isn't constructive. I'm spiritual but I wouldn't necessarily talk about God/the suchness the Tao whatever the fuck you wanna call "it", in the way that people ordinarily talk about God. One cannot ignore the skepticisms of science any more than one can ignore "it", tipping either way too much just shows that you haven't noticed the absurdity of your inclination. "It" will not be understood in this life, through science or traditional religious practice either. Through understanding that we cannot and will not understand existence, we can move and bend in tandem with the change and intangibility that defines it.
>>
Walter Bunshit - Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:59:07 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894226 Ignore Report Reply
>>894222
While I can see why some people might see the power of a trip as some kind of judgement of quality, I don't think that's very relevant.

Maybe that's the part that chafes here. If you consider how "powerful" a drug is seen in popculture as an important "fact", yeah that might piss you off.
>>
Charlotte Fuddlesitch - Thu, 14 Mar 2019 12:04:06 EST ID:bfB0voM7 No.894248 Ignore Report Reply
>>894222
>we can't understand!
That's not science you defeatist idiot. That's dogmati defeatism. Everything can be tested, everything can be deciphered. You've just given up and joined a religion that doesn't answer fucking anything.
>>
Matilda Pockville - Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:57:18 EST ID:G1Q7bUB9 No.894253 Ignore Report Reply
>>894248
> Everything can be tested
But not everything can be funded, support the sciences.
>>
Betsy Hebblefit - Fri, 15 Mar 2019 15:12:02 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894255 Ignore Report Reply
>>894253
True words my nigga.
>>
Ian Tillingwater - Fri, 15 Mar 2019 16:32:33 EST ID:gkU7wDAn No.894256 Ignore Report Reply
>>894248
Saying we can't, at present, understand the nature of existence is the truth. Maybe science will provide a way in the future, but it's chipping away at a very large puzzle. I think it's gonna be a while mate, no need to get angry. I didn't anywhere say that science shouldn't be looked to for these answers, but our obsession with finding these answers often puts us more at odds with the life and balance that existed before we started altering the environment to an insane degree.
>>
Betsy Hebblefit - Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:25:54 EST ID:LywZUfmH No.894258 Ignore Report Reply
>>894256
I strongly disagree with "but our obsession with finding these answers often puts us more at odds with the life and balance that existed before we started altering the environment to an insane degree."

What alters our environment is short-sightedness.

We have the tools to alter our world on geological timescales, but our brains cannot easily comprehend those timescales. Whether we do science or not, we will alter our world.

WE FUCKING ATE ALL THE MAMMOTHS INTO EXTINCTION WITH POINTY ROCKS IN THE STONE AGE.

We don't need technology to ruin the world. In fact, technology is probably the only thing that can save us from ourselves. Or at least, help us create a superior artificial intelligence that can replace mankind, along with all the idiotic shit it does.
>>
Hugh Fanwill - Fri, 15 Mar 2019 22:36:29 EST ID:9e3dUiV3 No.894259 Ignore Report Reply
I've never done more than 100ug of acid and I've never done DMT.. but something tells me that a LOT of people have done DMT while not many people have done heroic doses of LSD. So it's totally possible that there's room to explore and could be just as mind altering to the level of dmt


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