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Knocked out

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- Mon, 08 Jul 2019 00:51:33 EST E8ul6T86 No.896521
File: 1562561493355.jpg -(241550B / 235.89KB, 750x403) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Knocked out
Where do we go when someone gives our system a hard shut down?
Waking up not knowing what happened, why you’re laying down and lack the balance to stand up. We are all on here describing trips, I wanna know about your trips caused by passing out, blacking out, getting knocked out. You can breathe your ass off to release dmt, you can ride the Gforce thing where jet pilots experience 9gs and when the blood pulls from their brain, black out and have a dmt trip. Is this realm the realm we experience on psychedelics? Do different psychedelics take us to other dimensions existing on the same plane?
>>
George Turveyspear - Mon, 08 Jul 2019 03:48:15 EST 7OBsp/5q No.896524 Reply
>>896521
>You can breathe your ass off to release dmt, you can ride the Gforce thing where jet pilots experience 9gs and when the blood pulls from their brain, black out and have a dmt trip
Neither of those will cause the release of endogenous DMT. Specifically, in both of those examples, the mechanism behind the loss of consciousness/altered state of consciousness is acute hypoxia, meaning the brain is not receiving enough oxygen resulting in grossly impaired cognition and highly abnormal brain states.

Not to be a dick, but it's pretty clear from your post that you have little to no working concept of how the brain and consciousness actually function.

To preface my long-winded response (understatement of the century), good thread man. I like discussions like this but don't all that often really see them on /psy/ even though you'd figure it would be full of them. They show up, they're just surprisingly sparse. Also, I apologize for my bluntness, please don't take it personally. I don't say it intending to insult you, I'm just being forthright. I can definitely be a bit of an asshole.

>Where do we go when someone gives our system a hard shut down?
I think a more important question to ask prior to even attempting to ask yours is "where", if anywhere, are we when we're awake and cognizant? Is it even correct to conceptualize our conscious experience of the self in the context of existing located in some kind of tangible physical setting? In order to go "somewhere else" while knocked unconscious, we must actually be "somewhere" to begin with.

To give you my answer, I don't think it even makes sense to consider ourselves--that is to say, our conscious minds--to be existing in any given place. The mind is a metaphysical phenomenon, meaning it does not physically or temporally exist anywhere within the physical or temporal planes and therefore does not correspond with any spatial or temporal coordinates. There is no way we can hypothetically navigate through space time to a given physical and temporally location and actually stumble across the entity that is the conscious mind.

Consciousness and the mind are emergent properties that result from the physical interactions of specific discrete, localized (in terms of both space and time) components of energy and matter. Therefore, the existence of the mind exists in the imaginary plane, which is like a kind of an "upper" or perhaps "lower/sub" layer that exists beyond the boundaries of the physical and temporal planes (spacetime). It technically exists, but as the name implies, it is entirely imaginary. It is not strictly subject to the limitations and restrictions imposed on the energy and matter within spacetime. The imaginary is allowed a much greater deal of fluidity regarding its state of existence.
>>
George Turveyspear - Mon, 08 Jul 2019 03:48:35 EST 7OBsp/5q No.896525 Reply
>>896524
>---Part 2---

The imaginary plane consists of realized information created by physical interactions, it's a like a storage device used to contain information so that it can be communicated/trasnmitted and received by the components(energy/matter) of spacetime. The information stored can only be accessed by the localalized components interacting with one another responsible for creating it. Information is created by essentially all physical interactions and the systems they belong to. What I mean by a system is something very broad. It's just any set of components working as part of some interconnected network that takes a form of input and generates an output through the functional interaction of its components. You've got weather systems, electronic communication systems, biological systems, ecological systems, etc.

Well, just as it so happens, consciousness/the mind is the output of our central nervous system, which itself is a system comprised of many biological systems existing with ecological and environmental systems, etc. This means the mind/consciousness/the self (and therefore you, me, and anybody and everybody else) is information that exists in the imaginary plane that is stored, communicated/transmitted and received by the various components of your central nervous system and can only be accessed locally by the system that generated it (you) until some new system is invented or utilized whose mechanism bridges and connects our individual minds to a system that is comprised of an interconnected network of minds.

One such way of connecting an individual human system (from here on out referred to as being a person) is through the creation and manipulation of soundwaves that correspond to sounds and words that are themselves part of a system of language allowing for the meaningful ocmmunication of information by allowing it to be interpreted by the person receiving the information. Another way is through the use of discrete symbols that represent corresponding sounds and words within that language system that can be communicated through a visual medium. The internet itself is an interconnected network allowing for the mass storage and communication of information encoded in visual and auditory formats.

Knowing that, "where" is the internet? Sure, it's run by physical servers connected to one another all over the world, but the internet itself is not located within those servers, they're merely the localized systems generating the imaginary space storing the information comprising the internet. The internet is the whole that is greater than the sum of its parts--a unique entity arising from the mechanism driving the function and interaction of the system's components. It is the manifestation of the unified experience of its system, through its components, operating in harmony.

I think what will help illustrate this a bit more is by asking the same question again, but about something else. So, where is "English"? Where are any of the various languages? Dictionaries? Of course not. The dictionary is merely a documented lexicon of a given language. The words of a language are not the language itself but rather are merely symbolic signifiers of the concepts individual words signify. The rules of a language aren't the language either, but merely the manner in which the components/signifiers of a language (words) are to be oriented to facilitate meaningful communication.

Imaginary entites such as the mind are in fact imaginary systems that utilize the stored information in the imaginary space they exist in to generate new information themselves in I guess what you'd call extraimaginary or superimaginary spaces they generate (this is a recursive process that can be repeated without any real theoretical limit as far as I can tell--the imaginary space is already imaginary so it can't really get any more imaginary from there, it's just a quirk of metaphysical phenomena that it can be repeated infinitely; this isn't the most accurate analogy, but it's a bit like utilizing the identity property in mathematics for algebra problems to help solve them by replacing a number with numbers and the operation of equivalent value). Therefore they do not exist locally in any physical or temporal location, but as functions of local systems located in a given physical and temporal location.

>The summed up conclusion
You do not "go" anywhere when you lose consciousness because you never actually were anywhere to begin with. The mind is metaphysical, imaginary. It is simply the output of a system's operation. "You" only exist in a very loose, indefinite manner that does not fit the understood everyday classification of "existence." You are somewhere between being real and not being real. You simultaneously possess the characteristics of things that can and indeed do exist, and things that cannot and do not. Things that exist in the imaginary plane seemingly both exist dualistically and monistically--it is why you posses characteristics seemingly polar opposite of one another depending on the context you consider things in or the angle you view things from. It's why all truths are but half truths. Logically, what is true cannot be false, but yet any truth you observe is highly conditional and easily becomes false given a simple change of context. A phenomenon's truth is only true provided it can be falsified... that is to say, there exist conditions under which that truth can be false.

The answer here is highly unintuitive; it simply is what it is. It certainly takes a lot of thinking to eventually wrap your head arount it.
>>
Caroline Gottingbit - Mon, 08 Jul 2019 06:02:46 EST kaHbac2v No.896528 Reply
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>>896524
>Consciousness and the mind are emergent properties that result from the physical interactions of specific discrete, localized components of energy and matter
How about the other way around...
>The imaginary plane consists of realized information created by physical interactions
That would make imaginary plane conditional on the physical, where as when you understand that both are imaginary, you recognize that the imaginary is the foundation, not the physical.
>it's a like a storage device used to contain information so that it can be communicated/trasnmitted and received by the components(energy/matter) of spacetime
Yeah, that sounds accurate, maybe a simpler way to put it is that it's the nature and structure of existence and so all energy, information, ideas, whatever ARE it.
>Well, just as it so happens, consciousness/the mind is the output of our central nervous system
It helps shape the consciousness into what we experience as consciousness, it's not the source of consciousness/infinity/existence. There are many forms of consciousness and self awareness very different from ours, like a tree or even a rock, they don't have brains...
>and can only be accessed locally by the system that generated it (you) until some new system is invented or utilized whose mechanism bridges and connects our individual minds to a system that is comprised of an interconnected network of minds.
I don't want to start a discussion on this, but FYI we can access each others consciousness by resonance which means we won't become each other but for all intents and purposes we will be partly thinking the same thing (vescica pisces). This is btw quite simple to explain if you subscribe to the non local consciousness understanding of things. If all information is just a set of frequencies and made from the same clay so to speak in the same place then it would make sense that they are connected... I'm not saying this is a good explanation, but at least the realization confirmed by results IRL doesn't boggle my mind like it would for many people who's worldview is a little more narrow. All vibrations being in the same sea of vibrations, when one resonates with another, they interact... Empathy is the first step to telepathy.
>One such way of connecting an individual human system (from here on out referred to as being a person) is through the creation and manipulation of soundwaves that correspond to sounds and words that are themselves part of a system of language allowing for the meaningful ocmmunication of information by allowing it to be interpreted by the person receiving the information
I think this is already being done and we call it music, but as you can see the symbols aren't very well defined in such a communication system. If I misunderstood what you meant, I'd really like to hear an elaboration. As for visual symbols until we can create and exchange them freely on the spot via the internet and AI maybe this has a serious bandwidth problem, nut I agree this is an option especially if geometry is utilized in a smart way. Actually such medium has advantages over the primal communication of direct vescica pisces based on resonance. Just how our languages although always getting us lost in translation serve a purpose that would be defeated by too strong a telepathic communication which is btw always happening behind the scenes.
>Knowing that, "where" is the internet?
I concur with your general answer to OP, but not with the details. In this case the internet is an idea that you interpret from the physical reality you interface with. Just like a tree falling in the woods, which is interpreted by you as a sound, if there is no one to hear the sound the falling tree didn't make a sound even though it made the air vibrate if you catch my drift. So as with all similar questions the internet exists in our consciousness which as we have already agreed is non local. The internet being a specific interpretation of the happenings is also a result of our unique perspective on the matter at hand. Just like a sound can only be heard from a perspective of a brain with ears.
>>
Doris Sandercocke - Mon, 16 Sep 2019 20:30:53 EST LywZUfmH No.898455 Reply
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>>896521
When you get knocked out, you don't trip. Because you...

...are knocked out.

If you're unconscious, you can't trip because you need CONSCIOUSNESS to enter a state of ALTERED CONSCIOUSNESS.
>>
Henry Pibblebury - Sat, 21 Sep 2019 14:22:39 EST g4jaCXyD No.898556 Reply
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>>898455
Do you not see the point? Yes you are... knocked out.. UNconscious.. yet I have heard people with stories of what happened while they were UNconscious.. from passing out from seeing blood or a friend getting a piercing, to getting punched in the face, they have vivid memory of what they saw. Even if they came two a moment later.
>>
Angus Billingbury - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 02:44:08 EST 9Ru6IZn4 No.898575 Reply
>>896525
Damn
I love you /psy/

But my friend, you have not mastered telepathy

Telepathy is a form of astral communication

The imaginary plane you speak of is actually the astral plane, and it is a solid (well, sort of), connected plane like the one our bodies live on. Everyone's mind exists on the same plane. I first accomplished long distance telepathy (not in the same room as somebody, this time not even on the same side of town) by using astral projection to travel to a projection of someone else's consciousness and ask them a question. And they gave me an answer. And when she came over the next day I asked her if she heard me and she remembered what I asked her. And she said yes, and she repeated the question I'd asked (in her own words), and then she said, "and I told you..." Unfortunately I don't remember what the question was, but it's the accomplishment that counts. Telepathy is easy. You just form a thought and push it out to the desired receiver, basically. It all comes from the mind, use of the mouth is completely unrelated. As far as I can tell, you are sending the thought as a vibration, which is then received by the brain of the other person, (if they are open to receiving vibrations,) and the brain then decided it into their own thought pattern. Basically their mind might word it differently, but those words would have the same meaning.
This also signifies that the vibration itself is somehow the core of all this. Very interesting, isn't it? This is a wonderful discussion.
>>
Angus Billingbury - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 02:46:36 EST 9Ru6IZn4 No.898576 Reply
>>898556
Yeah that definitely sounds like DMT but I wouldn't recommend using dangerous techniques to achieve a DMT experience. You can trigger DMT release through meditation I'm sure
>>
Cornelius Chingerhall - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 04:23:13 EST bDYMg8HY No.898577 Reply
>>898576
The amount of endogenous DMT produced by the human body actively is miniscule and not enough to trip off of, period. Stop spreading ass backwards gobledeegook and misrepresenting meditation as a whole.
>>
Polly Pickville - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 04:49:42 EST O+nLOUrh No.898579 Reply
>>898577
this, there is no evidence that endogenous DMT is produced in large enough amounts to be active, it's most likely just a byproduct of melatonin production and not made on purpose
>>
Albert Fobberlock - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 18:44:10 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898598 Reply
>>898577
Gotta love how "rationalists" always resort to calling things they don't like some babyword like "woowoo" or "gobbledygook" because they can't explain how the thing they don't like is "impossible".
>>
Emma Brottingforth - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 19:14:21 EST MU5DQUTc No.898604 Reply
>>898598
He explained why it's impossible in the first sentence. Calling it gobbledygook is just a way of emphasising how nonsensical it is.
>>
Hedda Gidgetedging - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 20:06:22 EST j0qCSZO2 No.898605 Reply
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>>898577
I think the main point was solely about how near death experiences send you into never land, gobbledegook land, what ever anyone chooses to call it. When you fall asleep you go to gobbledegook land, when you have a religious experience, when you go thru the G-force machine at nasa. Just drugs aside, we go into that astral plane that drugs tap into. Might have just been making connections where it isn’t necessary to connect them. And in my opinion, OP is right.. there is no difference between where you go smoking or drinking DMT, salvia, datura, meditating, NDE, some people go on day long marathons.. get lost and in that state of dehydration they have hallucinations, you fall off a cruise ship into the ocean and a week goes by before a ship comes yet you’re still alive, but have all these stories about the people you saw and talked to that said a boat would be by yadda yadda. Knocked out? Dreaming, I smoke dmt and I get solid darkness. Sound is what plays a roll in my experiences. Never places or beings. Oh I didn’t break through? Let me try yours. BUT yeah, tldr
I love /psy/
>>
Esther Sepperbet - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:13:32 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898607 Reply
>>898604
Saying something is not proving it. I think most endogenous DMT trippers are claiming they are training their body to produce it and use it more efficiently than a dullard, which seems doable imo.
>>
Jack Grimlock - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 21:25:09 EST O+nLOUrh No.898609 Reply
>>898607
you don't have trip level doses of DMT hanging around in some special brain sac just waiting to be released when the right buttons are triggered
>>
Esther Sepperbet - Sun, 22 Sep 2019 22:46:10 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898615 Reply
>>898609
They are saying they train their body to produce them more, I believe. It's not in a sac it's in your cerebrospinal fluid.
>>
Phineas Gungerlit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 01:51:03 EST m7nL+FtX No.898616 Reply
>>898577
Pardon me, but you sound incredibly ignorant. There was one day I had not smoked any DMT (in at least several days, which is more than enough for my high metabolism to flush out anything, since you want to be so technical) and I felt the essence of DMT crystals in my brain and tripped out minorly walking in the parking lot. You don't have to believe me, but it happened. DMT is the molecule that causes dreams. It is released in every plant species, why is it so crazy to realize that yes, it is created in the human mind? Furthermore, misrepresenting meditation how? You can use it for any purpose. You can use meditation to clear the mind or to accomplish something. I'm not going to be a dick and say you're misrepresenting meditation as a whole, but you're definitely limiting it. I think maybe if you were more focused on the fact that I encouraged him to meditate rather than get himself knocked out you would have a more upbeat attitude about this
>>
Phineas Gungerlit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 02:06:41 EST m7nL+FtX No.898617 Reply
>>898604
Nothing was proven one way or the other mate, and for the record, I wouldn't want people on here trying to prove their point of view to me. For the ones who are open to it, great. Honest question: if you're not taking /psy/s to connect to all things, why are you taking /psy/s?


>>898598
It's very strange to me, like people who have never thought outside the box or at least never been successful at it


>>898605
Yes, that was my point, lol. It's the same place and it's all connected. If there's no oxygen maybe this leaves nothing but the cerebrospinal fluid containing the DMT and perhaps this ratio of low oxygen to high DMT is what causes the trip, and perhaps this balance can be achieved by adding DMT through smoking it or by losing oxygen by...losing oxygen. Or the 3rd option we discussed, which is training your brain to make more. Trust me, as long as you're well fed and perhaps rested enough, you can signal your mind to produce or release endorphins. I've done it before just to prove that I could do it. One can say, well that's a placebo effect! But a placebo effect involves a dopamine release. ;) What I'm getting at is that I think OP is on to something, but like I said he should aim for meditation because depriving the brain of oxygen is stupid lol
>>
Graham Cebblecocke - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:51:48 EST LywZUfmH No.898626 Reply
>>898615
BUWHEUT WAAIIIT ISNIT DA DMT IN DAE PINEAAALL GLLAAAAND?

Just fuck off.
>>
Esther Sepperbet - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 09:32:08 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898635 Reply
>>898626
lol, go smoke and chill out, materialists are hilarious to listen to try and make sense of the world.
>>
Jenny Cruckleway - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 11:18:58 EST 7OBsp/5q No.898637 Reply
>>898635
what does this even mean? like, what's your point? you sound as retarded as you think he does honestly.
>>
Esther Sepperbet - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 12:08:19 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898641 Reply
>>898637
He's whining that a thing is "impossible" because it conflicts with his worldview. Don't have worldviews, that's the first mistake. It's not like he has ever tried the methods taught by "endogenous DMT trippers" with any sort of seriousness, so why should he expect to find the truth of the matter if he will not step out of his hobbit-hole into the world of the unknown?
>>
Jenny Cruckleway - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 12:28:40 EST 7OBsp/5q No.898642 Reply
>>898641
you have to have SOME kind of worldview. if you don't have a worldview, you aren't even conscious. you have a point, but you're falling into the exact same trap he is, ironically enough. your idea that you shouldn't have any worldviews is in fact a worldview.

while you somewhat asked my question in the literal sense, i was asking "what does this even mean?" more in the sense that what you were saying seemed to have little actual relevance to what you were talking about or his response. what does materialism specifically have to do with anything, it seems more like you are opposed to dogmatic thinking than materialism in particular, which is funny considering, as i already pointed out, that you seem to be in the exact same position he is, but just on another team.

what i was trying to point out about the materialist comment you made was just how little sense it actually seemed to make given what you actually appeared to be trying to say, and you did the same thing in your response to me with this "don't have world views, that's the first mistake" comment. what does it even mean not to have a worldview? as i already said, not having a worldview is impossible unless you're dead or otherwise unconscious/non-living. i get what you're trying to say, more or less, but you're essentially just spouting nonsense that fits in with your own worldview.
>>
Jenny Cruckleway - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 12:29:20 EST 7OBsp/5q No.898643 Reply
>>898642
while you somewhat ANSWERED** my question in a literal sense*
>>
Esther Sepperbet - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 13:58:00 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898647 Reply
>>898642
I don't really care about worldviews or otherwise, I just meant be free with your mind, let it flow, don't get caught up with convictions and dogmatic thinking. Somedays I think one way and the next I'll think another, it's all just water in the stream of my consciousness. dgaf, nb, light up a fatty and enjoy your day Jenny. Hopefully we can all excrete a little bit more DMT on this day.
>>
Jack Grimlock - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:18:54 EST O+nLOUrh No.898648 Reply
>>898616
>you sound incredibly ignorant

>felt the essence of DMT crystals in my brain
>DMT is the molecule that causes dreams


lmfao bro you're talking out your ass and have totally given in to pseudoscience just because it sounded cool
>>
Phineas Gungerlit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:33:00 EST m7nL+FtX No.898649 Reply
>>898648
Actually, I'm stating what actually happened, and you my friend, are speaking out of your ass, because you have neither a dog in this fight, nor a leg to stand on. You can't prove it didn't happen, and I don't care to prove that it did. My posts are for minds powerful enough to comprehend them. That obviously doesn't include yours. I'll be continuing this conversation, just not with you. Sorry, I only speak to people who are on my level. Have a nice day and stop using /psy/s. Leave the good shit for someone who won't waste it next time.
>>
Phineas Gungerlit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:58 EST m7nL+FtX No.898652 Reply
>>898637
Can you not understand plain English bro? Because he was speaking to you in plain English. Just letting you know

>>898626
So the cerebrospinal fluid is in no way connected to the pineal gland? And I assume you dissected an actual human to learn this, because it sounds like it's not true.


>>898635
Ikr? What is the point? They should take their limited selves and go live their limited life literally anywhere that is not a board for psychedelic drugs

/Nb
>>
>>
Jack Grimlock - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:02:36 EST O+nLOUrh No.898653 Reply
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>>898649
show me the conclusive studies saying DMT is the de facto agent responsible for dreaming, or near death experiences

nigga even just show me a study that says the body produces ENOUGH DMT to get be psychoactive at any time

otherwise you're just vomiting back up the gallons of snake oil you drank and calling it the truth

lmfao go rub your crystals some more faggot
>>
Samuel Macklefutch - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:37:17 EST b1RHi0iW No.898654 Reply
>>898653
Why would I do that? You wouldn't be able to understand them anyway. You obviously weren't able to understand me the 3 times I told you I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT PROVING ANYTHING TO ANYONE. (Does that help you understand it better?) If you don't believe it, hit the X button my nigga. Instead of embarrassing yourself because you don't know how to shut up. I've told you 3 times I'm in this to talk to people on the level. Not to have a debate with your ass. If you can't understand something that simple, how in the name of God's green earth are you going to understand a research paper?

I don't give a shit about proving anything to you. You're on a /psy/ board. There are plenty of people here who have experienced what I'm talking about, or would like to. You are the odd one out. You are the outlier. Go away

Thank you
>>
Phineas Gungerlit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 16:45:29 EST m7nL+FtX No.898655 Reply
>>898653
And by the way, just because I know you can't come up with ideas on your own, I want you to tell me how you would scientifically test a living human's brain for DMT during a dream or vision. The reason we can tell that it's the same thing is because it's 1. The same headspace 2. The same type of visuals 3. The same feeling in all things described. I'm sorry you need somebody to regurgitate information from but some people are capable of learning on their own. Have a day
>>
Jack Grimlock - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:07:57 EST O+nLOUrh No.898656 Reply
>>898655
similar descriptions of ineffable experiences =/= "the same thing"

we have no idea if it is DMT that is doing any of that and all I'm saying is that taking this leap of faith to deify DMT is an ignorant step to take when it is just as likely that it's something completely different and/or wholly undiscovered causing these phenomena
>>
Jack Grimlock - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 17:10:18 EST O+nLOUrh No.898657 Reply
>>898654
for somebody who posts on a board about drugs known to cause ego death you sure do have an egregiously inflated ego

I'm not saying you didn't experience something, I'm just saying you don't 100% know the cause of it

but you had to throw a little bitchfit tantrum because somebody called out your shitty reasoning for turning a molecule into a god
>>
Samuel Macklefutch - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 18:58:13 EST b1RHi0iW No.898660 Reply
>>898657

Nah you're just trying to play the victim now that I've finally shut you down, something I really didn't want to do. But like I said, I was never here to have a debate with anybody. If you believe the shit I'm talking about, great, then you can join *our* part of the discussion. But you weren't trying to say, hey, maybe it's not DMT, maybe it's something else. Instead of saying that, you chose to contribute nothing to the conversation but doubt. That's pointless and childish, especially after I told you I'm not here to have a debate. I'm glad you finally understand. We can talk all day. I'm not trying to prove anything and you can't disprove anything I'm saying so there is literally no point in having that type of conversation.


>>898658
>>898659
Trying to insult me because I use more of my brain than you do (as evidenced by your short and mostly thoughtless responses) will not win you any awards. Drop some acid and reevaluate yourself.
>>
George Bardshit - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 19:17:19 EST kKqABgmM No.898661 Reply
>>898660
Telling someone to take MORE drugs then reevaluate themselves is usually(of not always) a sign for you to take LESS and do that very thing. I didn't mean to start a shit storm by saying your body doesn't produce enough DMT to trip off of but it doesn't. I didn't mean you couldn't coax it into doing weird shit. You didn't shut anyone down and by your own logic you can't even do so in this type of conversational platform.

Now to explain why even IF you were making yourself produce DMT it wouldn't work. It's simple logic really, if you coaxed your body into slowly producing more DMT then your tolerance for the substance would increase accordingly as ambient levels of the substance raised in blood plasma. Unless of course you could prevent your body from producing MAO and other related oxidizers and enzymes. You couldn't generate bursts like that, it's just not how a byproduct like that works and though it's theorized its stored for its neuroprotective properties during hypoxic crisis it would still be localized and in micrograms(probably less), not a systemic effect. As for your other comment it's all together possible that you're using less of your brain not more. When brain scans were done on one woman while she was "speaking" in "tongues" there was observed decreased activity in her pre/frontal cortext. So ya never really know.
>>
Oliver Lightstock - Mon, 23 Sep 2019 21:10:10 EST b1RHi0iW No.898662 Reply
>>898661
Brother, all I wanted was for you to stop being so sure that you are right and that everyone else is wrong. Maybe we won't call it shitting you down. Maybe we call it knocking down a few pegs. There's nothing wrong with that. My point was not that it's all caused by DMT, though we're all pretty sure it is. My point was that it's the same headspace. But yes, like I also said, I have experienced endogenous DMT release, and tripped very minutely from it. My point, further, was that there is no point in you arguing that I did not have this experience. I appreciate you changing your tone a little bit. The whole "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude is what was really getting on my nerves. Not the fact that we disagree. You haven't had the same experiences as me so how could I be mad? Some people might want to have that experience though. And considering it's a real possibility to do it without drugs or through meditation, you shouldn't be coming in here trying to say it's not, based on nothing other than the fact that you haven't experienced it. We all need a level of humility.

As for your comments that endogenous DMT release would not work due to tolerance, that's simply not true my friend. My little DMT experience in the parking lot was not brought on by smoking DMT. It just happened. I know what DMT smells like and how it feels when it touches the brain. So while you have a nice theory that sounds solid, in reality, it has not worked out that way for me. Also, my understanding is that tolerance for DMT declines pretty rapidly, but maybe that's just my friends and not yours? Who knows.

But we do know, scientifically, that psychedelics do increase brain activity, not decrease it. This was found when scientists did a study on mushrooms and found that the brain seemed to make more connections. This goes along with my first experience of LSD, but which felt like a veil being lifted, and boundaries destroyed. The "boundaries destroyed" was apparently just new connections being made. So for me to take what I've learned from psychedelics and apply it to sober living does mean that, yes, I'm learning to use more of my brain. People who come in here ready and waiting to doubt everything they've never experienced don't give themselves the chance.
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Mr_Shawmeen - Tue, 24 Sep 2019 00:06:54 EST kKqABgmM No.898664 Reply
>>898662
"My" tone changed because I'm not the guy you were bickering with, s/he was defending my point, albeit cruelly so. I've experienced ranges of phenomenon from the beginning of kundalini syndrome to countless psychedelic experiences(hundreds) and dissociative(hundreds) as well as many others, it's not a pissing contests. DMT doesn't touch the brain, that is, it does not. It works on a series or set of different receptors in the brain that then causes a systemic perceptual change. It could be any potential set of receptors being buggered by your hooblablooblagoo or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. It's not that I'm right and you're wrong, I'm simply presenting facts(with minimal flavor text). The DMT tolerance I spoke of would simply be due to up regulated levels of neurotransmitters or neuropeptides that result in the production of DMT as a by product. It would mean overall higher ambient levels of DMT.

Fun side note, when I was helping a buddy write/birth a research paper on DMT we found a trial in which DMT was being tested on felines and "schizophrenics"(severe schizoaffective afflicted peoples). Interestingly enough they found that the tolerance is VERY temporary, about 24 hours with a definite ceiling. Also, they found that the schizophrenic patients seemed to have a natural tolerance. Which could mean anything, but also that it could mean the downregulation of first pass oxidizers and other metabolizers of tryptamines is really REALLY bad for regulation of the perception of reality.

I digress, with up regulated ambient levels of DMT the aforementioned tolerance ceiling would thusly rise PREDICTABLY meaning you'd need a bigger burst of that singular substance to generate the effect or affect the individual at all. It would be all together more likely that you're touching HPPD or that something else interesting is going on. Alllllllll of that said I have to ask, how old are you? And yes that number is very VERY relevant.
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Mr_Shawmeen - Tue, 24 Sep 2019 00:12:10 EST kKqABgmM No.898665 Reply
>>898664
Meant to also say on the trial bit that the overproduction of tryptamines could also be a factor in the schizophrenics natural tolerance. There wasn't much interest at the time due to when it was conducted, the 50s or 60s I think. Meaning an overproduction of indigenous psychedelic tryptamines is NEVER a good thing.

Bad pattern recognition=bad survival

Polite nb
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Emma Briblingstetch - Tue, 24 Sep 2019 01:50:34 EST m7nL+FtX No.898666 Reply
>>898664
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you weren't the same person. You seem a lot more intellectual than the other guy. I should clarify one thing to you: when I said touching the brain, I meant the drug entering the receptors. Why I felt the form of actual crystals in my brain, I have no clue. Perhaps a lot was released at once for whatever reason. This was an isolated occurrence unlike dreams and what have you. But I knew what it was and I have no other explanation. I also know it's not a pissing contest, that's why I was trying to tell the other dude I didn't give a shit about proving anything to anyone. You feel me? It's just a conversation to me. I haven't used Facebook in like a week or so because it's just not stimulating conversation to me, at all. It's a bunch of people trying to prove each other wrong, and a bunch of other "useful idiots" trying to ban guns and bring in socialism, thinking they know what "useful idiot" means.

Writing a research paper on DMT? First of all noice. XD here's the thing with schizophrenia. I believe that all things you see and experience are real on some level, because the human body is a finely tuned machine, including the brain, that has had tens of thousands of years to develop to what it is. Genetic defects are caused by synthetic chemicals abridging the DNA by overloading the body to the point that it is able to penetrate into the cell nuclei. This is of course my hypothesis, but I'm right a lot, because of exactly what you mentioned: pattern recognition. Pattern recognition is what causes people to associate DMT with all the things we've discussed.
I have no doubt your hypothesis is correct about the downregulation (you do mean overuse or a sort of burning out, right?) of receptors for psychs being bad for perception of reality. I've learned so much from taking psychedelic drugs that it has changed my life, completely for the better, but when I started to overdo LSD, taking it all the time just because I could, I started to get really loopy. So here's the thing with schizophrenia: it's a heightened level of awareness that an individual does not know how to handle. These people are connecting to spirits and realities that exist on frequencies that do not vibrate between the vibrations of red and violet, which are the lowest and highest vibrations we can perceive visually. There is of course a limit to what we can hear, a decibel range. But these limits are not the end of reality. They are not the edge. There is an infinite range of vibrations. When people speak of alternate dimensions, I'm sure they are speaking of these vibrations that we are as yet unable to perceive. This is a digression for sure, but I enjoy talking about this stuff. In other cultures, people who are gifted with these visions are considered many things, but never crazy. Think about shamanic cultures and things like that, where they practice having visions. Do you think they are all crazy? It's a different way of life, for sure, but I suppose it's what I descend from, because it's what my soul is most accustomed to. If we taught schizophrenic people to use their minds to their fullest potential, instead of medicating them (people who probably don't even need psychedelics to begin with), we would perhaps not have schizophrenia. Perhaps we would be closer to indigenous cultures.
To answer your question, I'm 25.
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Sophie Drevingtig - Tue, 24 Sep 2019 18:09:36 EST O+nLOUrh No.898679 Reply
>>898660
>Nah you're just trying to play the victim now that I've finally shut you down, something I really didn't want to do
you didn't kiddo
>you weren't trying to say, hey, maybe it's not DMT, maybe it's something else. Instead of saying that, you chose to contribute nothing to the conversation but doub
that's clearly actually exactly what I was saying the whole time, you're making shit up as usual
>That's pointless and childish, especially after I told you I'm not here to have a debate
>childish
from the guy who goes
> My posts are for minds powerful enough to comprehend them. That obviously doesn't include yours
> I only speak to people who are on my level
>Leave the good shit for someone who won't waste it next time.
>Trying to insult me because I use more of my brain than you do
yeah dude you sound totally chill/enlightened/big brained

and you wonder why I'd put no real effort into talking with you
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Nigel Surringtork - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 01:46:13 EST m7nL+FtX No.898690 Reply
>>898679
I'm sorry dude, I'm literally not paying attention to anything you say. I don't talk to idiots and I've given you enough of my time. I thought I made my point clear but obviously you can't comprehend plain English. I hope you have a very nice day doing something more productive than trying to argue with someone who is plainly not interested in talking to you.
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Eliza Blemblegold - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 09:24:08 EST qgc/areM No.898697 Reply
>>898690

>>not interested in talking to you

Get keeps responding. I'd like to say from an independent third party observer you look like the idiot here throughout this whole discussion. Reconsider your communication techniques, they're not working.
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Charlotte Mugglestone - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:30:24 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898702 Reply
>>898665
A few things:

Can I get that link to the study? Sounds fascinating. Second, it's "endogenous" not indigenous, just an fyi. Third, don't psys usually RAISE pattern recognition? Thta's been my experience, and low level, endogenous release of DMT in schizophrenics sounds a lot like what they describe: seeing more patterns everywhere. I think the whole deal with schizophrenics is that their natural state, releasing more DMT than normal people, is underutilized and turned into a shameful thing, something to be "beat down" with antipsychotics. Why not cultivate their "abilities" for lack of a better term and let them see those patterns most people don't. Ever seen schizophrenic art, some of it is AMAZING and psychedelic without them ever having to touch the stuff. All in all, Nobody knows, DMt could connectour souls to Hyperspace or just be "crossing the wires" as some hard-headed materialists will tell you. We don;t know, is the only current answer, but I'd rather have my telescope pointed towards the unknown in case I see something new, y'know? SLAYER
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Sophie Candlelerk - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 18:34:02 EST SOP0pats No.898709 Reply
>>898697
I really don't care if an idiot thinks I'm an idiot. I'm not the one who needs to work on my communication skills when I'm not the one who kept trying to force a conversation to happen that the other person wasn't trying to have. So get a clue and share your opinion with somebody who cares to hear it.
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Sophie Candlelerk - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 18:36:54 EST SOP0pats No.898710 Reply
>>898702
Totally bro, I definitely agree with everything you said
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Frederick Blatherdock - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:45:32 EST O+nLOUrh No.898724 Reply
>>898702
From what I've read there is more evidence pointing to accidental production of bufotenin (a different psychedelic tryptramine) that causes the schizophrenic visions. It's the active component in yopo style snuffs and it's some dark voodoo that I personally would not touch again. It's similar to a DMT breakthrough but it's like it's mad at you for existing.

The overwhelming feelings of terror it causes seem much more in line with what the schizophrenics report to. It's interesting stuff, look into if your hip to, but as with all of this we don't really know. The human mind is still a huge mystery to us.
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Frederick Blatherdock - Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:48:54 EST O+nLOUrh No.898725 Reply
>>898709
It's interesting to see someone who claims to use psychedelics have as closed of a mind as an evangelical christian. And just like them, when your fragile mindset was challenged you started screaming nonsense and plugging your ears to protect your little lies, all while acting like you were somehow superior.

Good show lil dude, I hadn't seen a bitchfit like that in many moons around these parts.
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Cyril Hellyspear - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 03:25:49 EST kUuc2V3p No.898728 Reply
>>898724
That makes sense, I wouldn't be surprised if they were all analogues of each other, or if the DMT in our mind is actually just a different molecule that follows the same concept like THC compared to endocannibinoids. Which brings me to my next point...

>>898725
Quit being a fucking loser and get back on topic. For somebody talking about a bitch fit, you sure are throwing one.
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Mr_Shawmeen - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 08:45:46 EST LbvFjS/U No.898731 Reply
>>898666
I literally genetically come from those cultures, at least partially. If you've ever had any conversations with schizophrenic people then you know there's no magic there, just crazy and a lot of it. Trust me, I've spoken with more than a few and it's all bad. As for some of what you see under the influence of those substances it is all together possible that some of what's seen is just filtered bits of information. I imagine the reticular activating system is going bonkers and stuff is building up or slipping through but it can't be good on any level. By definition being less able to perceive survivable reality is less awareness in general. As for sounds we can't hear some are perceived emotionally/mentally ad seen with infrasound in some instances, it's well documente. There's danger in letting belief cloud your judgement and not being able to critically scrutinize them is the basis of delision, so beware.
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Alice Bubbledatch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 10:59:56 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898732 Reply
>>898731
The crazy in schizophrenics is because of how we handle their mindsets as a culture and society. Everyone knows about neuroplasticity and the power of a strong mindset, they probably wouldn't be as scared and paranoid if it wasn't basically illegal to think in ways that the general hoards of society don't allow into the zeitgeist. OH NO! I SEE SPIRITS, THAT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THIS CENTURY, I AM GOING TO GO TO THE LOONEY BIN! Shit like that I can easily see why schizophrenics get worried, whether "spirits" are real or not is another discussion entirely, but if they are tapping into that shit, it would be really sad if they were getting chemically lobotomized for being able to contact the spirit world, like indigenous cultures say their schizophrenics/shamans do regularly. Whether that;s true or not, I cannot say, but if you think a schizophrenic is any crazier than some CEO with billions of dollars basically all coming from slave labor, exploitation of people and the planet, all for status or money, you're dead wrong. Thing is it is "ok" in the zeitgeist to want more and more money for no reason, and it's not ok to talk to your ancestors or "hear the voice of God", motherfucking rofl
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Fucking Pinkinlutch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 11:10:15 EST LywZUfmH No.898734 Reply
>>898732
Neuroplasticity is about regrowing lost brapimpls. It can't fix genetic faults.
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Alice Bubbledatch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 11:27:58 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898735 Reply
>>898734
You're thinking of neurogenesis, neuroplasticity is where you rewire your brain by thinking thoughts you WANT to have vs. thoughts you have but don't like. It's a rather simple way to get yourself out of any mental illness. I know some people may find this hard to consider or even taboo to think, especially if they or someone they know has had one but has been kept on medication for it for a long time, but training and rewiring your brain connections by simply strengthening the good ones by using those connections more than the bad ones, I've seen it work personally and get people out of mental issues and illnesses.
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Shitting Honeydock - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 12:18:25 EST c3gflUrd No.898736 Reply
It's because of people like those in this thread that I don't like telling people IRl that I meditate. Even with it becoming more mainstream and a lot of interesting promising studies being done, Ieven with all the incredible stuff i've gained and experienced with meditation, I just know people will think if I mention meditation that I'll also start proselytizing about endogenous DMt, chakras, reiki and crystals or whatnot.

Makes me sad.
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Fucking Pinkinlutch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:04:57 EST LywZUfmH No.898741 Reply
1569517497905.jpg -(5392B / 5.27KB, 298x169) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>898736
I know right?

Just because you can get visions in meditation, doesn't mean you're tripping balls on DMT. FFS, if I close my eyes and concentrate for half a minute, I can see mental visions right now - completely sober. AM I MAYBE TRIPPIN ON DMT ALL THE FOOKIN TIME????!!??11

The visual systems that normally are used to project your senses into your brain are also used by your imagination to... imagine... things. No DMT needed.
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Alice Bubbledatch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:19:44 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898742 Reply
>>898741
> AM I MAYBE TRIPPIN ON DMT ALL THE FOOKIN TIME????!!??11

Wow, it's almost like that's the exact theory for endogenous DMT secretion into the brain, some have even called it the "imagination molecule" for that very reason. These would be sub-tripping levels, obviously, but I find it interesting if DMT played a role in how our brain works even while sober. It's in the cerebrospinal fluid, and almost certainly in the pineal (according to studies on smaller mammals), so I see a role in brain function rather elementary.
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Fucking Pinkinlutch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:32:49 EST LywZUfmH No.898743 Reply
>>898742
You mean layman (crackpot) hypothesis.

It's not a theory, because we already have dozens of models for the visual center that don't require any DMT, retard.
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Alice Bubbledatch - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:54:48 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898744 Reply
>>898743
Doesn't mean there can't be more to it that we are unaware of. Science doesn't mean "this theory is it, the end all no more progress can be made", it's always learning new things.
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Mr_Shawmeen - Thu, 26 Sep 2019 15:16:15 EST +YrIzDIr No.898746 Reply
>>898732
Not the ones I've met. They were paranoid but not because of anything external. These poor souls were walking in a constant hallucinatory state and it looked exhausting. The delusions of grandeur are also super annoying and deeply disturbing. It's not a mindset man. I've had people look me in the eye and tell me they're the second coming of jesus and they have tiger blood because that's the king of the jungle and eagle blood because they rule the sky. Everyone knows you don't disagree with those people so they actually almost never encounter resistance or persecution outwardly in the modern day so a lot of their paranoid behavior is internally generated. It's not spirits someone's seeing when they tell me Barry Manilow is making rap music and that I'm putting piss and cock roaches in their food. They make models of schizophrenia by using substances like Mk801 to damage rats' brains and watch them trip endlessly. It's just bad stuff man, all bad stuff. Now whether or not spirits are real is a whole other thing.
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Hugh Fanspear - Mon, 30 Sep 2019 17:56:07 EST kLV3S8Jp No.898813 Reply
>>898744

scientific theories are based on evidence, not retards sitting around dreaming up "dude what if" ideas.
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Edward Gollyway - Mon, 30 Sep 2019 21:10:27 EST LywZUfmH No.898820 Reply
>>898744
Are you a scientist? Did you spend four years in uni doing biochem?

Then SHUT THE FUCK UP.
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Caroline Pengerford - Tue, 01 Oct 2019 07:52:41 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898833 Reply
>>898813
Scientific theories start as speculation, have you forgotten your origins so soon?
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Sidney Dubbersun - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 17:56:20 EST aQcRuewx No.898887 Reply
>>898833
um, achually, hypotheses start as observation, speculation, and prediction, and theories are the result of copious amounts of verifiable experimental data that essentially prove what's been tested.

i mean, yeah, you shouldn't really look down on asking questions and being curious, but there's a difference between a couple of retards asking "dude what if" and some serious big brain time scientists sitting around asking "dude what if". their questions are probably actually going to lead to something and aren't going to be nearly as retarded from the get go
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Polly Bummleson - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:32:50 EST LywZUfmH No.898890 Reply
>>898887
This. Friend of mine is an astronomer. When I say "yo dude what if" I just imagine some crazy space scenario.
When he says "yo dude what if" he gets graph paper and a calculator.

That's the difference between a layman and a professional.
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Matilda Pittbury - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:43:41 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898891 Reply
>>898890
>>898887
I get your point, as you see mine, but in the day and age of free information, the differences between professionals and laymen are lessening, and it's not as clear cut as a false dichotomy like you presented. I'd say it's more likely that self-taught people will take the risks to research things the professionals won't, even if it's just because they aren't held back from exploring by widely-held taboos or dogmas in the field.
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George Fublingwater - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 21:25:57 EST aQcRuewx No.898897 Reply
>>898891
>but in the day and age of free information, the differences between professionals and laymen are lessening,
This is certainly true. The only real difference is in the motivation and intent behind the speculation. It just so happens that there is a greater chance that a scientist speculating about something is actually searching for real answers that they can devise some method to actually test for, even if that ultimately proves them wrong. Scientists are human too and speculate things that confirm their biases, but they're at least trained in the process of putting that to the grindstone and are equipped to actually do that.

>I'd say it's more likely that self-taught people will take the risks to research things the professionals won't, even if it's just because they aren't held back from exploring by widely-held taboos or dogmas in the field.
This is definitely a real problem for the scientific community, unfortunately. Still though, it really depends on what you mean by "doing research" when it comes to self-taught people investigating more taboo subjects. Without the tools and manpower science has, a lot of that research isn't really going to amount to much. That's not to say it doesn't have value, either. This is just one of those regrettable facts about where we're at technologically and culturally today and it's definitely a shame.

I was hoping to make it clear with how I said "Achually", but I was really just kinda making an enthusiastic shitpost to poke fun at you somewhat. I didn't disagree with what you were saying, but I felt there was at least something to be said about the difference between your average layman and professional that it warranted pointing out.
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George Fublingwater - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 21:29:02 EST aQcRuewx No.898898 Reply
>>898897
goddam, i forgot about the filter for aut. .istic around here
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Fuck Blytheson - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 07:38:59 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898910 Reply
>>898897
Good post, and yeah, I got that from the achually, I just wanted to discuss it more precisely.
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Lillian Brushspear - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 10:14:31 EST LywZUfmH No.898914 Reply
>>898891
> I'd say it's more likely that self-taught people will take the risks to research things the professionals won't, even if it's just because they aren't held back from exploring by widely-held taboos or dogmas in the field.

You are fucking retarded and you don't know shit about science.

There's no dogma in science you fucking retarded cunt. Learn scientific philosophy, learn how science works.

It's anarchistic as fuck and if you want to get far in science, you absolutely need to fucking bury the theories and ideas of your predecessors.
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Fuck Blytheson - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 10:45:52 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898915 Reply
>>898914
Science has taboos and dogmas, like every field, from art to architecture to bodybuilding. To deny this is to close your eyes to the truth of the matter. ON PAPER, there shouldn't be any sort of taboos in science, if everything is working well, but humans aren't perfect thought experiments, we all have biases and hangups.
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Emma Blatherridge - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 19:19:28 EST O+nLOUrh No.898920 Reply
>>898914
That's how science SHOULD work but that isn't how science ACTUALLY works. Unfortunately in this day and age science is expensive and someone has to pay for it. And if it's only going to say things they don't want to hear they are more than likely going to stop paying for it. At least in the US that's how things go.
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Samuel Bardson - Sat, 05 Oct 2019 12:18:52 EST LywZUfmH No.898933 Reply
>>898920
But here's the beauty of it. Eventually someone will take that paid-for research and rip it a new asshole. You can't uphold a dogma in the sciences. It can happen temporary, yes. But eventually shit's going to break.

Hell, not even those cocksucking rightwing drugs war mongering Republican cunts could stop psychedelic research from happening. Sure, it took 60 years, but we're here now nigga.

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