Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the format Name#Password
Comment
[i]Italic Text[/i]
[b]Bold Text[/b]
[spoiler]Spoiler Text[/spoiler]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace Text[/pre]
[super]Superset Text[/super]
[sub]Subset Text[/sub]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Discord Now Fully Linked With 420chan IRC

brain dmt lololol

Reply
- Wed, 02 Oct 2019 06:03:00 EST Z4Ix2n3J No.898857
File: 1570010580837.png -(65008B / 63.48KB, 640x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. brain dmt lololol
Is magical spirituality as a result of tripping just a rabbit hole of confirmation bias? How do so many people believe DMT is released in the brain yet there's literally NO studies suggesting so. I know people who have never fucked with drugs who also believe in this theory. Doesn't having beliefs that differ so far from objective material reality (the only testable & provable reality) kinda scare you? When I had dissociative thoughts that weren't grounded in reality and I sub-consciously pushed opposing evidence away, it kinda scared me how I was going down that psychological path.

How do you believers of endogenous DMT (as in, it gets released in brain when you die so you go to DMT land which is our afterlife) not question your own beliefs when there's no evidence supporting your stance and some evidence supporting the opposite of your stance? Is it a desperate grasp at hope? To fend of the existential anxiety? Kinda like religion?
>>
Fucking Bardhall - Wed, 02 Oct 2019 07:34:15 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898859 Reply
1570016055126.jpg -(184453B / 180.13KB, 559x864) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
All I hear is "I don't like things that suggests my soul may be real, or that there is more to reality than we know, it makes me have responsibilities I can't handle" so anything that suggests materialism isn't the end all (which there is TONS of evidence showing materialism and physicalism ISN'T all there is) inherently scares and frightens the materialist because that means they've been wrong most of their lives. I honestly just think materialists are people too stubborn to admit that they have been wrong, most well adjusted people can take the hit and accept new evidence, can you really call yourself a science enthusiast if you don't accept new information as "the best evidence we got" and not hold any given fact as "objectively true", because there is no objective truth.

For example, have you never read The Spirit Molecule book? It goes into great detail about how almost every single person tested on experienced some sort of entity contact. Are there higher dimensional entities humans contact when they take DMT? I can't answer yes or no without a doubt, because we don't know enough, but isn't it odd that they had no prior knowledge of DMT and all saw different kinds of entities communicating and interacting with them?

There are actually tons of studies about endogenous DMT:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6088236/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w
https://www.psypost.org/2019/07/study-provides-evidence-that-dmt-is-produced-naturally-from-neurons-in-the-mammalian-brain-54051

There is even an ongoing study about the entities specifically going on:
https://therooster.com/blog/top-university-studying-encounters-with-dmt-entities

I'm sure like Strassman's work, they will find many interesting things during this study.

It's interesting, it's almost like you have never read up on DMT experiences before. Erowid has an incredible trip report vault, and when you read some of the more interesting experiences, the mystical ones for example, you encounter a plethora of descriptions of entity contact, people being "shot out of their body into hyperspace", etc. In fact, I met a guy who seemed very "down to earth" and he claimed he tried DMT and it shot him out of his body into space above Earth. Does DMT allow your consciousness or soul to leave the body? Again, we don't have enough evidence to be sure, but the sheer amount of these type of experiences show that something interesting is happening, I mean, how many other drugs have you looking at your own body from a 3rd person view?

https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT_Mystical_Experiences.shtml

Kind of related, You should probably stop having a death grip on materialism, have you ever heard of dark matter or dark energy, most of the mass in our universe is some exotic form of matter and energy we can't even reach or properly interact with, it's almost like the matter we are regularly experiencing is just a small blip on the spectrum of possible matter, like the small band of visible light wavelengths in the EM spectrum. Or have you ever heard of bulk spaces? Scientists are increasingly working with theories of higher and lower dimensional spaces. Wouldn't these spaces be populated by entities like our own 3D reality is?

DMT is an amazing molecule, we can only begin to theorize on how we will utilize and work with it in the future.
>>
Angus Haddlebury - Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:20:43 EST O+nLOUrh No.898863 Reply
>>898859
>how many other drugs have you looking at your own body from a 3rd person view?

it's a pretty common experience on disso's like ketamine and MXE, possibly disso's in general those are just the only two people around me used much

also I've heard more than one account of that experience from inhalants, especially ether
>>
Sidney Dubbersun - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 11:57:07 EST aQcRuewx No.898876 Reply
>>898859
>All I hear is "I don't like things that suggests my soul may be real, or that there is more to reality than we know, it makes me have responsibilities I can't handle" so anything that suggests materialism isn't the end all (which there is TONS of evidence showing materialism and physicalism ISN'T all there is) inherently scares and frightens the materialist because that means they've been wrong most of their lives.
Bro, you are the shining example of what OP is talking about. He in no way actually said or even really insinuated that endogenous DMT wasn't a thing, he just expressed how perplexing it is to him that so many people treat it as a fact without there being really any substantial evidence supporting the idea.

Your knee jerk reaction to somebody even daring to question this shit is to automatically pigeon-hole their perspective into being that strawman point of view, you're literally as bad as all the goddamn dirty materialist fucks you are railing against. You seriously began your post by ignoring and invalidating everything this nigga said and then telling him what he actually meant, at least as you see it. Shut the fuck up you faggot
>>
Matilda Pittbury - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:28:20 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898880 Reply
>>898876
"No", that's a bunch of projection in itself. I never said it was real, or fake. Obviously OP thinks people who believe blindly are stupid, and so do I, but the people who blindly reject possibilities out of dogmatic thinking are equally as stupid. I don't take anyone who ends their post in "Shut the fuck up you faggot" seriously anyways, smoke more and chill out hot stuff.
>>
Matilda Pittbury - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 14:55:08 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898882 Reply
>>898876
Also,
>He in no way actually said or even really insinuated that endogenous DMT wasn't a thing,

>>How do so many people believe DMT is released in the brain yet there's literally NO studies suggesting so.
>>
Sidney Dubbersun - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 17:44:57 EST aQcRuewx No.898885 Reply
>>898882
You just said in the last post
> I never said it was real, or fake.
Which is essentially what "He in no way actually said or even really insinuated that endogenous DMT wasn't a thing," means in less words.

Also, your quote of yourself doesn't prove me wrong? If anything I feel like it proved my point. There's some nuance between saying "DMT is not endogenously produced in the human brain" and "How do so many people believe DMT is released in the brain yet there's literally NO studies suggesting so."

One is an assertion, the other is simply a statement of fact. I could see how somebody could misconstrue it as meaning to imply human endogenous DMT isn't a thing, but all that you actually said there was that there is no evidence out there that suggests the idea. If you meant to imply it, then you made a rather poor choice of words.
>>
Eliza Brooklock - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 17:47:21 EST Bkf5q0pV No.898886 Reply
>>898857
To be honest OP, it sounds like many decisions you make in your life are fear based.
>>
Sidney Dubbersun - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:04:19 EST aQcRuewx No.898888 Reply
>>898886
Not the point of the thread. Do you think he's wrong about people believing in something without any real reason to or were you just making an off-topic observation and felt the need to share?
>>
Matilda Pittbury - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 18:49:31 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898892 Reply
>>898885
Bro, I think you are talking to the wrong person, I posted this: >>898859, I posted studies showing that there is evidence DMT is produced in the mammalian brain
>>
Eliza Brooklock - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 19:45:43 EST Bkf5q0pV No.898893 Reply
>>898888
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190627113951.htm
Sure, it's rats. But Bufotenine has been found in increased levels in the urine of schizophrenics and autists. Not really that far fetched this idea about pineal dmt in humans. Maybe the sceptics are the ones who are the believers.
And yes, that statement about OPs fear and the reluctance to confront oneself deeper with the facts are connected.
>>
George Fublingwater - Thu, 03 Oct 2019 20:44:02 EST aQcRuewx No.898895 Reply
>>898893
Not far fetched, no, but that's not something you can just take as a given. There''s all kinds of steps that take place between something being produced in the brain and it being excreted in urine. The idea that it's produced in the pineal gland in particular is a big assumption all on its own. For all we know though, there's some wacky process through metabolization of certain nutrients and the metabolites resulting from the chemicals involved in the physiological differences involved in schizophrenic people that result in the bufotenine in the urine. I'm just spit balling here obviously, but that's the entire point--none of us actually know. Assuming that it must be related to endogenous DMT produced in the brain, and specifically even the pineal gland no less is fallacious because it's entirely unfounded on any real evidence.

I'm not saying that this isn't in fact the case at all, or even that it's unlikely for it to be the case. The point is we have no actual way of knowing this right now, so to just flippantly accept that it's probably true because of confirmation bias or some desire for it to actually be the case othwerwise is a foolish mistake. The whole point of the scientific method is to account for the potential errors in our reasoning when it comes to explaining observational data by controlling for all the variables that we can. We need a direct connection between these findings being the result of endogenous pineal DMT, even if it's a chain of direct connections that all lead to the increased bufotenine in the urine of schizophrenics. Without that, claiming it's pineal DMT is just talking out of our asses.

Hence, OP can't understand why so many people believe pineal DMT is a factual phenomenon, because no such definitive connections have yet been found to exist. All these people have right now is wishful thinking. To question this isn't necessarily evidence of dogmatic materialistic/scientific reductivist thinking, it's evidence of being rightfully critically skeptical enough of unproven ideas. I mean, it could be that he's a dogmatic materialist and/or scientific reductivist, but to assume that for questioning the idea at all is just as fallacious as assuming that humans produce endogenous DMT in the brain without enough evidence to know that definitively because spiritual/mystical experiences people can experience during meditation, from Near Death Experiences, or altered states of consciousness in general share characteristics with DMT trips. If anything that more likely says something about the nature of altered states and how they effect certain parts of the neural processes that construct our model of reality and perceptual experiences... or at the very least that's a far safer assumption. Otherwise, why are so many psychedelic experiences similar to each other? or experiences on hallucinogens in general? Even if DMT is produced endogenously and is involved in these altered states, it still suggests some shared way that brain states produced by drugs or in deeply relaxed dream-like states like meditation, dreaming, and sensory deprivation all affect the process involved in producing consciousness and the conscious experience (likely through the thalamocortical circuit).

As a matter of fact, I'll provide links that go in-depth about the ways that 5-HT2a agonist psychedelics affect the thalamocortical circuit and how this has been observed to affect consciousness and our experience reality, as well as how the thalamocortical circuit functions in general.

http://psychedelic-information-theory.com/5HT2A-Agonism-and-Multisensory-Binding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurrent_thalamo-cortical_resonance

I mean really, even though I don't subscribe to a materialistic worldview, what would actually be the problem if it turned out materialism were actually correct? I don't see how the world would be any less beautiful for being the direct product of a network of systems that all work to produce what we experience, observe, and interact with. The fact something that simple could produce something so complex is actually really elegant in a way. Again, I don't believe it's the case, but you and other people on this board that go ranting about materialism and materialists all the time seem to be offended by the very idea for some inexplicable reason, like you need there to be more.
>>
Fuck Blytheson - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 07:59:07 EST Yzf2kwQX No.898911 Reply
1570190347637.jpg -(14658B / 14.31KB, 340x458) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>898895
Great post, Just a few things

>or at the very least that's a far safer assumption
This wording is interesting..."safer"? Why exactly, because the contrary (a mystical/spiritual/supernatural reason) would be a shock to our cultural system? I want to know your reasoning for this wording.

>like you need there to be more.
I think, for a lot of intelligent people and "more or less believers", it's that they have experienced these mystical states and such and the reality of those experiences, or the subsequent aftereffects, like say, talking to a spirit guide and the guide telling them about things that will happen, not prophesies, but little things that build up over time to form a history of "well, this sort of thing is seeming to add up into evidence that something interesting is going on ". I have tons of synchronicity-based and other experiences most would call "mystical", what exactly is happening here? No clue, am I tapping into the flow and harmony of an ultimately Animistic Universe and Reality, is this God, are they the same thing? Or am I just getting "lucky" when I think of phrases or words and my friends immediately say them after, or we say the same thing at the same time, which are happening at increasingly more frequent rates these days? Am I just matching up in frequency and vibration with my friends and the world? Does this even negate a mystical reason if so, even if it is reducable? I don't have a clue, but after a while it becomes more stifling to a consciousness to reject these sorts of things and try and go against the grain of your own experience, than say "let's see where this can take us". Plenty of greats have done research like this in the past, sure it wasn't purely particle physics or deep math, but what about Carl Jung or Joseph Campbell, or The Buddha for that matter? They purely went into the recesses of the mind, the inner world, and came out with some really revolutionary stuff. Stuff some scientists have a hard time wrapping their head around because it works on a kind of "fuzzy logic" in a way.

I like your reasoning, when we are acting as scientists, you need solid evidence, that is true. But, sometimes it doesn't hurt to act like a mystic, because you never know what you may find, or where that discovery will ultimately bring you. Slayer, brudda.
>>
Charles Ceffingdire - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 08:46:41 EST 79BfIwEN No.898912 Reply
>>898911
>when we are acting as scientists, you need solid evidence, that is true. But, sometimes it doesn't hurt to act like a mystic, because you never know what you may find, or where that discovery will ultimately bring you.
This is pretty much exactly my attitude toward all this.

>This wording is interesting..."safer"? Why exactly, because the contrary (a mystical/spiritual/supernatural reason) would be a shock to our cultural system? I want to know your reasoning for this wording.
By safer, I mean it is an assumption that makes less logical leaps to reach as a conclusion. Often assumptions are built on chains of assumptions, and the chain of assumptions that make up this overall assumption is shorter. Therefore, there is a much greater chance it is actually true.
>>
Charles Ceffingdire - Fri, 04 Oct 2019 08:53:37 EST 79BfIwEN No.898913 Reply
By the way, sorry for being an uncouth dickhead earlier, I had just woken up and taken some adderall after getting my script again, so i was pumped as fuck to go shit on somebody on the internet (not a morning person and get a bit aggressive on the amps, heh)
>>

Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.