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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Trips are not as good as first trip

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- Sun, 19 Jan 2020 09:21:16 EST af7MMSCN No.901125
File: 1579443676624.jpg -(28534B / 27.87KB, 291x173) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Trips are not as good as first trip
I first tripped on liberty caps last october and since then I never had similar experience. I remember having strong euphoria that I never get when I trip now.
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Hannah Fuckingfield - Sun, 19 Jan 2020 17:22:56 EST nC72LLIm No.901128 Reply
5 dried grams for breakfast
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Terror Incognito - Mon, 20 Jan 2020 10:57:37 EST gqwVeK87 No.901131 Reply
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>>901128
This
Switch up the way you trip and try higher doses. Also, lay in the dark. Shit gets nuts in the dark, especially at 5 gram doses.
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Eliza Sinningdale - Mon, 20 Jan 2020 11:06:51 EST af7MMSCN No.901132 Reply
>>901131
Why do you think I haven't tried higher doses? The highest I've taken was 9g in the woods and it was very intense. What I'm talking about is that I've never felt such euphoria that I felt during my first trip.
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Rebecca Boddlelag - Thu, 23 Jan 2020 19:34:20 EST 9XZy/yw8 No.901187 Reply
>>901125
If you search for something specific in a trip, you're not getting it, every trip is different and the best is to simply expect nothing

Besides, using psychedelics only for euphoria is blasphemy (but that's besides the point I guess)
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Oliver Sadgespear - Mon, 27 Jan 2020 19:53:17 EST o/OnKyOL No.901252 Reply
>>901125
How often have you been tripping since October? Your tolerance may be up. If not, maybe up your regular dosage a little, maybe you're too used to the effects you've been getting at your dose range.

For me, much of my trips have been a continuation of previous experiences, as if I'm just starting from a checkpoint I left there. I am gradually upping my doses in small increments, having a couple experiences at each dose range until I'm comfortable with it, so that's helped keep the magic of the experience for me.
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Shit Chavingnatch - Mon, 27 Jan 2020 20:10:58 EST VeTCRbSp No.901253 Reply
You're going in with expectations which is the problem. Euphoric experiences find you, not the other way around.

>>901201
>>901218
fuck off back to the future
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Polly Sockledone - Tue, 28 Jan 2020 01:00:23 EST AcdpHzQT No.901254 Reply
>>901252
It was actually October 2018 so quite a long time ago.
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Polly Brerrycocke - Fri, 31 Jan 2020 13:59:25 EST bs37+BMW No.901311 Reply
Stop tripping like a crack addict
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jorby jock big dick and tits - Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:58:40 EST toCkep7G No.901321 Reply
>>901270
>>901125
i also remember on lsd i got an electric euphoria that i have not experienced at such a magnitude since, i have felt good but not like as good as the first time,
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Basil Trothood - Sun, 02 Feb 2020 04:47:42 EST MGURh4Rd No.901352 Reply
time to start adding euphoric drugs to your psychedelic mix op

MDMA/dis/weed helps

or just do DMT or something like mescaline instead
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Doris Danningwell - Sun, 02 Feb 2020 05:12:37 EST bs37+BMW No.901353 Reply
>>901352
Weed should me more than enough. Abusing dopaminergic substances = brain damage. Not to mention it will take away from your trips when you’re not mixing it with other drugs. It “muddies” the pure psychedelic bliss in the long run.
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James Honeyshit - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 16:27:26 EST qdjCoqx4 No.901425 Reply
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>>901353
>Abusing dopaminergic substances = brain damage.
Well, obviously, but you seem to be jumping straight to assuming the only way to use them is abuse. Seems a little inconsistent coming from someone advocating for long term psy use, eh? MDMA has been proven to have therapeutic use/benefit, as well as ketamine for that matter, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with having a candy-flip or hippy-flip that isn't also an issue with a plain acid or mushroom trip (I say intrinsically because obviously there are things to be aware of specific to each substance, but with proper safety precautions there is the possibility of a safe experience), it still always comes down to set and setting. There is no "pure psychedelic bliss" in the long run, the magic of these experiences isn't something you can keep pure and novel forever. You can abuse psy's, fuck with your head, and ruin the experience for yourself, with or without mixing it with anything else.

I'm all for harm-reduction and being cautious, but this post has me scratching my head for so many reasons. It reads like you think psychedelics are exempt from the possibility of damaging your brain, or being abused, or becoming a muddled and hollow experience by their own accord, and let me tell you buddy, they most certainly can do all of that.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 16:35:40 EST bs37+BMW No.901426 Reply
>>901425
Anything that feels good can be considered theraputic. Frued said that cocaine fixes migraines, he was too retarded to know that it hurts them in the long term. Mdma is also verified to be neurotoxic, and both ketamine and mdma are verified to be addictive. Like any other mainly dopamine related substance.

You’re thinking of the pure psychedelic bliss as one thing, perfectly normal for a dopamine drug user to be used to always trying for the same high. Using any drug that uses neurochemicals takes away from tripping, ESPECIALLY when you mix them at the same time. This is because your body wants that drug to make the acid trip more enjoyable. It’s just cyclical and pointless, using other drugs. If you take mdma your brain takes more than a month to get back to baseline, otherwise if you keep taking it you literally go e tarded. You obviously don’t have as many neurochemicals as you would if you didn’t take mdma. Therefore, it has to take away from the trip. Try and find someone who went retarded JUST pure lsd or mushrooms after using them 100 times.
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:14:37 EST 1PUKVApI No.901434 Reply
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>>901426
I'm now realizing that your first post confused me because of all the assumptions, because now you're just piling on assumptions making it a drudgery to have a conversation with you. Just gonna spitfire a few to show what I mean

>Anything that feels good can be considered therapeutic.
Incorrect. Therapeutic means to aid in the healing of disease. MDMA has been used a lot with PTSD patients, and does a lot more than just "feeling good" in relation to the disorders it treats.
>Freud said that cocaine fixes migraines
One doctor saying something is a cure for something is not the same as a developing consensuses in the medical community that is happening with psilocibyn, MDMA, and ketamine.
>You’re thinking of the pure psychedelic bliss as one thing, perfectly normal for a dopamine drug user to be used to always trying for the same high.
You're not only assuming what I think psychedelic bliss is, but also what kind of drug user I am, when you couldn't be further off. I've never enjoyed stimulants or opiates, and only taken MDMA thrice compared to my easily over 100 acid trips and dozens of shroom trips. Acid is actually what I ruined for myself, taking it far too often, and muddling the open eyed wonder into something that felt like just taking a drug, so I'm speaking from experience there.
>You obviously don’t have as many neurochemicals as you would if you didn’t take mdma
You're probably basing that off of this picture. What you probably don't know is that this is based off a study where mice were dosed with insanely high amounts of MDMA, repeatedly, for days, a use case that almost nobody would attempt.

Yes, MDMA depletes your neurochemistry temporarily, but if taken properly it does not result in permanent brain damage. There are plenty of people who've fucked themselves up taking psychedelics way too often, and there are plenty of people who've taken MDMA many times (again, with the proper precautions, and proper cool-down after each one) and are no worse for the wear.

I honestly don't feel like you're wanting to have a conversation, but just have a side to take and want to argue for that side, so I'm not going to continue engaging you. I've had enough arguments like this to know when someone is painting things that black and white that there's always a bias. Psychedelics are not a rigid category, all drugs carry risks and benefits, do your own research and check studies thoroughly.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:25:33 EST bs37+BMW No.901435 Reply
>>901434
First of all, anything that feels good can be considered theraputic no matter what you say because feeling better is part of therapy.
>One doctor saying something is a cure for something is not the same as a developing consensuses in the medical community that is happening with psilocibyn, MDMA, and ketamine
Exactly, and there is no consensus in the medical field about taking extremely psychoactive drugs lol it’s just becoming more and more known that it could help because some people feel good after their done being high. This is exactly what i’m worried about, people assuming things about drugs like mdma must be good because it made my owies go away in some way. I don’t think it’s as simple as that.
>You're not only assuming what I think psychedelic bliss is, but also what kind of drug user I am
You literally said, “There is no "pure psychedelic bliss" in the long run, the magic of these experiences isn't something you can keep pure and novel forever.”
Tell me you’re not assuming more than I am again, lol.
>You're probably basing that off of this picture
No, dude. I’m basing it on straight up plain logic. You can’t even take mdma 2-3x year without developing a permanent tolerance. Lsd and classic psychedelics are literally on an entirely different level than the dissociatives and amphetamines. What are they even going to be used for? Here, do some work for hours while you are HORNY AS FUCK or hey do you like being a potato and watching an elevator go up and down like a retard? Is that help for some people? Lol, they didn’t have problems in the first place.

You make giant wide statements, I make giant wide statements. Lsd will never lose its novelty for me because I have chronic migraines and without clasic psys I would be dead.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:31:08 EST bs37+BMW No.901436 Reply
>>901434
I called k a dopamine drug because it doesn’t have to be a stimulant to release dopamine
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:37:17 EST 1PUKVApI No.901437 Reply
>>901435
>First of all, anything that feels good can be considered theraputic no matter what you say because feeling better is part of therapy.
If you want to use "therapeutic" as "it feels good", then go ahead, it's not what it means.
>people assuming things about drugs like mdma must be good because it made my owies go away in some way.
Right, clinical studies to see how a patient reacts to a new medicine is an "assumption", sure.
>You literally said, “There is no "pure psychedelic bliss" in the long run, the magic of these experiences isn't something you can keep pure and novel forever.”
>Tell me you’re not assuming more than I am again, lol.
Like I said, it's what I experienced first hand. Do something enough and it becomes normal, go figure.
>No, dude. I’m basing it on straight up plain logic.
Leaps in logic, maybe. Since when does tolerance = permanent brain damage? When I get a weed tolerance is my brain permanently damaged? Hmmm
>You make giant wide statements, I make giant wide statements.
I made one statement that you interpreted as wide because I acknowledge that the magic of an experience goes hand in hand with its novelty, and anything done often enough becomes routine.
>without clasic psys I would be dead.
Finally, some common ground, because I would be too.

For what it's worth, I'm glad you're alive :)
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:40:30 EST bs37+BMW No.901438 Reply
>>901437
Do you have daily intractable chronic migraines too? You’d be alive without psychedelic, quit being a bitch.
>If you want to use "therapeutic" as "it feels good",
No, I said feeling good was a part of therapy. Quit assuming things.
>Right, clinical studies to see how a patient reacts to a new medicine is an "assumption", sure.
Are you literally a fucking monkey?
>Since when does tolerance = permanent brain damage
Literally didn’t say that, either. Quit assuming things.
>I made one statement that you interpreted as wide
I didn’t know you could read my mind. That’s cool.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:46:32 EST bs37+BMW No.901439 Reply
>>901438
I shouldn’t have called you a monkey but you shouldn’t assume the medical establishment is always right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
>The replication crisis (or replicability crisis or reproducibility crisis) is, as of 2020, an ongoing methodological crisis in which it has been found that many scientific studies are difficult or impossible to replicate or reproduce. The replication crisis affects the social sciences and medicine most severely.[1][2] The crisis has long-standing roots; the phrase was coined in the early 2010s[3] as part of a growing awareness of the problem. The replication crisis represents an important body of research in the field of metascience.[4]
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:57:41 EST 1PUKVApI No.901440 Reply
>>901439
>You’d be alive without psychedelic, quit being a bitch.
Don't even feel like I need to comment on that one
>No, I said feeling good was a part of therapy. Quit assuming things.
just because healthy people sometimes feel good doesn't mean health is about feeling good, people who feel good all the time are usually manic and not healthy. Therapeutic means to treat a disease, that's the way I'm using it, if you think anything can be therapeutic if it feels good, that still has nothing to do with my point that it's helping *some* people overcome a serious disorder.
>Are you literally a fucking monkey?
What if I am? What are you gonna do? take my banana?
>Literally didn’t say that, either. Quit assuming things.
You followed "I'm using plain logic" with the justifying statement that you can't take it 2-3 times a year without developing a tolerance. How is it then assumption to say you're equating tolerance with brain damage? Am I having a stroke or are you seriously reaching?
>I didn’t know you could read my mind. That’s cool.
You jumped from saying one of my statements was wide (the pure psychedelic bliss can't last forever one) to I make wide statements in general. Again, reaching quite hard.

>>901439
I appreciate you retracting the insult, but again you're jumping from me talking about the possibility of a substance having a real and valid use with assuming the medical establishment is ALWAYS right. I purposeful avoided taking antidepressants or anti anxiety meds because I don't trust the medical establishment as an entity. The thing is, I might distrust big pharma, but it's exactly because of that that I welcome the possibility of treating illnesses by other means. I've always been weed + psy for my self medication, I just don't agree that they're free of downsides, or that other classes of drugs are inherently without benefits because they're in a certain category. All I was trying to say to your original post is it is ***possible*** to abuse anything, and psychedelics are not exempt from this.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:59:31 EST bs37+BMW No.901441 Reply
>>901440
That’s weird, I thought this whole conversation was me explaining why it’s bad to mix other drugs with lsd and not about big pharma
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:00:36 EST bs37+BMW No.901442 Reply
>>901441
Abusing lsd is completely different than abusing mdma or ketamine. Lsd is non addictive.
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:03:33 EST 1PUKVApI No.901443 Reply
>>901441
Yes? That's why I just addressed what you said when you brought up the "medical establishment" and then returned to the original point?
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:06:11 EST bs37+BMW No.901444 Reply
>>901443
I’m saying that the point of this conversation isn’t that you can abuse acid, the point is that I believe other drugs take away from the lsd experience unless you want to do them every time you trip. You say wide statements past the one I called out. It’s just that this conversation is not about assuming things so i’m not going to nag every part of every post that pisses me off.
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:12:24 EST 1PUKVApI No.901445 Reply
>>901444
Yeah and I disagreed with your point. It sounds like you have a very personal attachment to LSD so I can understand why you feel its a sacred thing that shouldn't be mixed with anything else, I just disagree that because LSD is non-physically-addictive that mixing it with something else will *inherently* make the experience worse in the long-term, or inevitably lead to brain damage, or make your brain want it the next time around. I've taken a modest hippy flip and my next mushroom trip was just as rich and enjoyable in its own way. We might just have to agree to disagree
>>
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:19:46 EST bs37+BMW No.901446 Reply
>>901445
>It sounds like you have a very personal attachment to LSD so I can understand why you feel its a sacred thing that shouldn't be mixed with anything els
Thank you.
>I just disagree that because LSD is non-physically-addictive that mixing...
It’s not JUST that it’s non-addictive. It’s simply the fact that if you do other drugs without the trip you have less neurochemicals to work with and if you do it within the trip the next time you trip you’ll want to take that drug.
I think that lsd has the highest potential ceiling of any drug and watching people waste that top tier better than cocaine god feeling experience just pisses me off. Because it’s “easier” to just take mdma or ketamine and you won’t have a tolerance for them. people aren’t even aware of how high they can really get off acid if they prepare for it. It’s way better than the ceiling of any dopamine drug and that’s not even including the fact you don’t even want to kill yourself for the high after.
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:31:31 EST 1PUKVApI No.901447 Reply
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>>901446
>It’s simply the fact that if you do other drugs without the trip you have less neurochemicals to work with and if you do it within the trip the next time you trip you’ll want to take that drug.
Well, as I already said, I think there's healthy ways to use other substances that don't leave you with less neurochemicals permanently. You might disagree, that's alright.

As for "the next time you trip you’ll want to take that drug.", that hasn't been my experience, like I said my psy trips are just as rich in their own way after trying a couple combos.

I think it's really cool that you love LSD so much, and I agree that it has so much potential, but it being your favorite drug seems to be clouding your judgement. In your experience it might be a better high than any dopamine drug, and I might even agree with you, but that doesn't mean it's going to be the same experience for everyone.

> you don’t even want to kill yourself for the high after.
Well, I've felt compelled to dose myself with acid sometimes every three days when I was in the depths of depression, because it was my escape. I'd put on my headphones, put on some movies, and have my own little world to inhabit. It's the most addicted to any drug I've ever been, so again, saying these things are facts, I just don't agree with. And that's okay! I'm glad you made your point and that I made mine, but I don't think we're going bridge the gaps of our experiences, honestly.
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Ebenezer Drablingfidge - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:42:50 EST bs37+BMW No.901448 Reply
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>>901447
>think there's healthy ways to use other substances that don't leave you with less neurochemicals permanently
This is where you’re assuming things again. I never said that. I was trying to convey the wide range of physical effects a non classic psychedelic like mdma has, and to show that it’s sketchy compared to lsd. I think lsd is a lot safer than k or mdma.
>that hasn't been my experience
You’re right. I am really affected by the drugs I take. I took cocaine twice and i still feel like I have an issue with it. Mdma was so good I, I miss it far too much afterwards. I know mdma and k addicts (and coke) where it destroyed their lives and they started with lsd and weed.
>I've felt compelled
Notice it’s “felt compelled” not “needed it.” Anyway imo even if you need if that often, that’s okay because it’s not physically dangerous and if your vibing with the drug and the mindset paranoia and fear becomes your only enemy.
>but I don't think we're going bridge the gaps of our experiences, honestly.
Ouch
>In your experience it might be a better high than any dopamine drug, and I might even agree with you, but that doesn't mean it's going to be the same experience for everyone
Ouch
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Emma Pablingmeck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 18:50:31 EST 1PUKVApI No.901449 Reply
>>901448
Feeling compelled means feeling forced to do something, at least that's what I meant by it. I've been more addicted to LSD than I have been to MDMA, or any other drug, even though I loved the way MDMA felt, it didn't offer the escapism LSD offered me. Cocaine I tried once and didn't like it, just made me edgy. Goes to show how odd the human brain is.
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Hedda Ciblingcheck - Wed, 05 Feb 2020 19:00:36 EST bs37+BMW No.901450 Reply
>>901449
Damn, you’re right. I just think everyone who says they’re addicted to acid isn’t actually addicted. You’re “addicted” like you’re addicted to playing video games, it’s not like you’re going to start doing crimes to trip or hurt people to get more of it. Lsd is less addictive than weed, I just think it’s cool you were such a savage. I want to say you took bad cocaine, but really fuck the dopamine jew.
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Nicholas Sobblelit - Fri, 07 Feb 2020 15:55:57 EST fN+fIXKl No.901481 Reply
>>901450
It’s easy to think of addiction as cut and dry staving away physical withdrawals, but my entire life has been dealing with dependency. Relationships, sex, weed, video-games, acid, and before that DXM. For me it’s all about getting out of my head, losing my sense of self. Vyvanse, adderall, opiates, coke, alcohol etc just never appealed to me. I guess that’s why I don’t see it as that bad to mix classical psychedelics with things that are dopamine agonists, in my own life and the people I’m close to, it just isn’t where I draw the line of danger. The line I’ve drawn is with crack, meth, and heroin, I’d also put cocaine in there too tbh, why I tried it is a long story (you’re right, probably wasn’t good coke thankfully). Probably wouldn’t try Ket either because of how much I like DXM, but MDMA is the one I can say I’d be happy to take or leave, like Benadryl. Interesting high, but not something I feel I need to return to. Benadryls a weird one, the fact that there are so many people addicted to it even though it feels like shit pretty objectively I think colored my opinions on addiction quite a bit, guess that’s why I don’t see a hard line anywhere. Whether you’re just tripping and smoking weed, taking Benadryl to get high, or snorting ket/molly, you can be hooked.
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 00:20:58 EST bs37+BMW No.901488 Reply
>>901481
>It’s easy to think of addiction as cut and dry staving away physical withdrawals
I’m not. I’m saying that with real addiction is when it feels like you absolutely cannot do anything but not stop doing that something which makes you happy. LSD or mushrooms will never really make you feel that way, because your body doesn’t actually become dependent on it. Just because a certain drug can give you a certain high that you cannot get otherwise does not make it addictive. Happiness is what’s
addictive. Positive reinforcement is what’s addictive. Another thing, we are all addicted to water, we are all addicted to sex. The difference between a good addiction and a bad addiction is your decision on how the good outweighs the bad. when you’re using a drug that compromises that system, your brain cannot accurately determine that. Even marijuana does not compromise those systems, it is in the nature of psychedelics to actually get paranoid of their use. I think this is why stoners are one of the most ostracized and easily made fun of groups Addiction is different things. one is basically compulsive button pressing another is literally not dying. It’s best to keep those separated. I think your mind thinks it needs lsd to think “better,” and it’s not wrong/ it very much could be true. You said yourself you don’t really even “like” dopamergic substances so i’m going to assume here and think that you don’t really like any really addictive drug simply for the fact that you don’t feel good dependent on a substance to be normal. I think you don’t know what it feels to absolutely be over your head addicted to something like drinking or snorting coke. Even weed for example: take a stoner and drop him on an island alone. He’ll be fine, might even forget about weed and think about survival first. Now take a heroin/meth/coke/alcohol addict and drop him on the island and see just how functional he is and tell me the addiction is the same.
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Caroline Hiffingstodge - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 05:35:57 EST 4+4oGv9u No.901490 Reply
>>901488
>I’m saying that with real addiction is when it feels like you absolutely cannot do anything but not stop doing that something which makes you happy.
By definition, addiction starts when a behavior is repeated or continued past the point where its negative consequences outweight its positive consequences. Although LSD and mushrooms don't cause *physical* addiction (chemical dependence) they are perfectly capable of causing *psychological* (also called behavioral) addiction.

The idea of a junkie spending every waking moment thinking about his next dose is a meme. A person can be addicted without that scenario ever happening. Consider this: you get into the habit of tripping at home every friday. With time, your tolerance builds up and you start needing higher doses to trip as hard. An increasingly large portion of your salary start going into your friday trips. You can be said to have become addicted when you stop doing other things so you'll have more money to buy acid. Are you really prepared to say that there's absolutely no one this or something similar has happened to?

>Another thing, we are all addicted to water, we are all addicted to sex.
Ah... no. Humans are physically dependent on nutrients and water, but that's not called addiction because it's an intrinsic property of healthy human bodies. What other things are people addicted to? Having a heartbeat? It is certainly possible to become addicted to food, though, as can be trivially shown by statistics of morbid obesity. As for being addicted to water, I suppose it's hypothetically possible, but I've never heard of it.

Just because something feels really good doesn't mean you're addicted to it. There's people who are definitely addicted to sex, and it causes major problems in their lives. Most people don't stop going to work so they can continue having sex.

>Even weed for example: take a stoner and drop him on an island alone. He’ll be fine, might even forget about weed and think about survival first. Now take a heroin/meth/coke/alcohol addict and drop him on the island and see just how functional he is and tell me the addiction is the same.
What's your point? Take a nicotine addict and he'll do about as well as the stoner, although he'll probably have a much stronger desire to smoke. That doesn't make him not an addict, it just tells you that nicotine causes much lesser physical dependence than heroin.
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Beatrice Blatherlock - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 10:55:26 EST kTXPlr6J No.901492 Reply
>>901490
if im not mistaken, if you're addicted to things like weed or gambling or jerking it or food, you're pretty much a dopamine addict
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 15:02:13 EST bs37+BMW No.901494 Reply
>>901492
But those things don’t directly release dopamine, as in when you play a video game you’re not injecting chemicals into your body in mass amounts that hit brapimpls they make you feel an alien form of amazing. They make you feel the regular good old you in a good mood.
>>901490
>By definition, addiction starts when a behavior is repeated or continued past the poi
Where we’re going we don’t need fancy schmancy schience man definitions. I’m saying there are different levels of addiction and feeling like you want to trip is a very low level of it along with video games. Cocaine/drinking/doing a hard drug that DIRECTLY effects the amount of dopamine you’re releasing is a addiction that feels like addiction to breathing, it just becomes a part of you, it brainwashes your brain and body to do nothing but use more of that drug and the want ro do that drug doesn’t stop like it does for classic psys. You’re literally joking me when you say acoid addiction is like hard drug addiction. They are absolutely nothing alike, you were so scared of hard drugs you told yourself you don’t like them, so go do adderall 3 times a day for months or start drinking everyday and love it and tell me it’s the same.
>Ah... no. Humans are physically dependent on nutrients and water,
Lol, I get it now. Addiction is only when it’s bad, amiright bro? I disagree. I think addiction is addiction wether it’s bad or good for you. You’re addicted to breathing, because when you breathe you want to breathe again. You’re addicted to sex because when you bang you want to bang again. The level of the addiction in my eyes is how badly it has you hooked, not if it’s SUBJECTIVELY good or bad for me.
> What's your point? Take a nicotine addict and he'll do about as well as the stoner,
You must trolling at this point. Do you even nicotine brah? If your body isn’t ready to stop doing it, it’s not ready to stop doing it.

the people who make the definition of addiction have a vested interest in the definition of the word and therefore make the definition the way they want it. There are different levels of addiction, I have to say this; you look like an immature juvenile when you compare hard drug addiction like alcohol or heroin or benzos to smoking weed and doing acid.
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 15:04:03 EST bs37+BMW No.901495 Reply
>>901494
>brapimpls.
Maybe weed does but it’s an addictive drug and obviously doesn’t release THAT much dopamine if anyone can quit at any time when actually needed with little side effect
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 15:04:54 EST bs37+BMW No.901496 Reply
>>901495
I’m fucking retarded I meant to fix that to “brapimpls”
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 15:24:59 EST bs37+BMW No.901499 Reply
Nothing that has happened so far has been anything we could control
I am just here waiting for the perfect time to tell you what I know
Every man is happy until happiness is suddenly a goal
I'll just be here waiting 'til the doctor calls and then I'll let you know
>>
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Caroline Hiffingstodge - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 16:38:06 EST 4+4oGv9u No.901502 Reply
>>901494
>I’m saying there are different levels of addiction and feeling like you want to trip is a very low level of it along with video games.
You're confounding two different things: addiction and habit. A person can have a harmless habit that they enjoy doing and doesn't interfere with the rest of their life. It's only considered an addiction if it starts to interfere and they don't stop.

>Cocaine/drinking/doing a hard drug that DIRECTLY effects the amount of dopamine you’re releasing
Cocaine and I believe alcohol as well are not primarily dopaminergic. Alcohol in particular is a CNS *depressant*

>You’re literally joking me when you say acoid addiction is like hard drug addiction.
I said no such thing. I said the opposite, in fact: psychedelics don't cause physical dependence, but they can cause psychological addiction.
However, psychological addiction is still very much real. Go tell a gambling addict that since they're not chemically dependent on any substance that it should be easy for them to stop.

>Addiction is only when it’s bad, amiright bro? I disagree. I think addiction is addiction wether it’s bad or good for you.
You're free to hold in your brain whatever retarded definitions you want, but when you say to other people "yeah, humans are addicted to breathing, because I think 'addiction' means something other than what is usually meant" you only out yourself as a fucking retard.

>Do you even nicotine brah? If your body isn’t ready to stop doing it, it’s not ready to stop doing it.
Nicotine withdrawal causes primarily psychological symptoms, not physiological symptoms like opioid withdrawal. A heroin addict in a desert island is in serious risk of death. A nicotine addict isn't.

>you look like an immature juvenile when you compare hard drug addiction like alcohol or heroin or benzos to smoking weed and doing acid
You look like a dumbass when you compare metabolic nutrient requirements to drug addiction.
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 17:30:28 EST bs37+BMW No.901504 Reply
>>901502
Holy fuck dude, habit is a minor form of addiction
> It's only considered an addiction if it starts to interfere and they don't stop.
I know, and I think it’s a strange place to put a hard line of addiction. If some superstar has all the money in the world and is using cocaine to do more work and it’s currently working out; is he/she not addicted to cocaine? According to top scientists and definition people; no. I think that’s insanity. You’re addicted to something if it makes your life better or not. A bad addiction is when it makes your life worse and “interferes” (FUCKING EVERYTHING YOU DO INTERFERES WITH YOUR LIFE).
>Cocaine and I believe alcohol as well are not primarily dopaminergic. Alcohol in particular is a CNS *depressant*
Fuck me. Just because a drug is not *primarily* dopaminergic or a cns depressant doesn’t eman that it doesn’t release a lot of dopamine. Dopamine is the mechanism of addiction, the gaba molecules alcohol creates make you release dopamine. Literally where in the world do you get that cocaine is not primarily dopaminergic? It works by stopping the reuptake of dopamine and leaving it all in your synaptic cleft. Methampphetame works by making your body produce more dopamine.
The mechanism of human addiction has to do primarily with the neurotransmitter dopamine because it’s job is to regulate reward and desire.
>you only out yourself as a fucking retard.
And this whole time I thought everyone else was stupid. Damn, what a mindblow.
>Nicotine withdrawal causes primarily psychological symptoms
Lel. Older people die from quitting cigarettes. It’s normal for doctors to tell elderly patients trying to get better to not quit smoking, because they can die/shorten their life with the withdrawal. Reminds me to quit before then.
>You look like a dumbass when you compare metabolic nutrient requirements to drug addiction.
I’m literally saying exactly that. Some drugs will make you feel like you need them so much it’s comparable to the feeling you get when you’re trying to hold your breath. You look like a person who wants to feel like they were “addicted” to lsd/weed to raise your position and feel more legitimate as a debater. Weed/acid addiction is nothing like hard drug addiction. You ever suck dick for weed?
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Caroline Hiffingstodge - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 18:32:39 EST 4+4oGv9u No.901505 Reply
>>901504
Fine, I admit I don't know that much about cocaine's mechanism of action. I haven't looked into it enough because it never interested me as a substance.

>If some superstar has all the money in the world and is using cocaine to do more work and it’s currently working out; is he/she not addicted to cocaine?
Just because a person has enough money to do as much cocaine as they want doesn't mean it won't cause problems in their life. Simple example: for whatever reason Superstar's spouse wants them to stop taking cocaine and they promise they'll stop, but they continue doing it in secret. The spouse finds out and leaves Superstar, but they still continue. Superstar is definitely addicted, even through they can't possibly spend all of their money on coke.

Yes, everything you do "interferes" with your life, but not all changes in a person's life are relative. If something makes you less healthy or damages your relationships, you should probably stop it, and if you can't, then that's an addiction.

>Some drugs will make you feel like you need them so much it’s comparable to the feeling you get when you’re trying to hold your breath.
What an absurd argument.
  1. Addiction to drug X causes the person to feel like they're holding their breath when they stop taking it.
  2. When people hold their breath they feel like they're holding their breath.
  3. Therefore people are addicted to breathing.
So two things with the same effect must be the same thing?

Isn't it more reasonable to say that both cellular respiration and heroin addiction have a physiological component, and that's all they have in common? Otherwise, what else are people addicted to? Having a heartbeat? Synthesizing ATP? Not having seizures?

>You look like a person who wants to feel like they were “addicted” to lsd/weed to raise your position and feel more legitimate as a debater.
The hallmark of a poor debater is the inability to abstract themselves away from their personal experience and argue with logic, rather than anecdote and emotion.
Although it's completely irrelevant to the discussion, I was briefly addicted to exercise a few years ago. No joke, I was averaging 12 hours a week of cardio.
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 18:55:36 EST bs37+BMW No.901507 Reply
>>901505
You’re not even arguing my point. You completely ignored the person using cocaine successfully with no negative repercussions (very possible for a time)
>So two things with the same effect must be the same thing?
No, because breathing is not the same affect as snorting cocaine. To live, you need to breathe. With some really addictive drugs, you can feel like you absolutely need to do that drug to JUST live. I’m saying if someone took away your acid midway through your “addiction,” you wouldn’t kill that person. Same with weed. Ever. I’m saying the feeling of hopelessness that you get when you really want to keep holding your breath and be a God who doesn’t have to breathe but at the same time knowing you have to breathe being is like the feeling a hardcore alcoholic gets when the receptors start firing in overdrive or a cocaine addict when he’s trying to not buy another dope bag because he feels like a piece of garbage. Weed/acid will never *make* you feel like you’re a piece of garbage who needs to get high, (although they can, it’s common. I have a feeling they just make you a lot more aware of what you’re doing compared to other drugs that “put your head in the sand” imo) they just get you high.
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Sidney Sellybeck - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 18:58:06 EST bs37+BMW No.901508 Reply
>>901505
Whoops totally forgot to talk about your “addiction” to exercise.
You still don’t know real addiction
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Mr_Shawmeen - Sat, 08 Feb 2020 20:13:41 EST bDYMg8HY No.901510 Reply
>>901505
>12 hours a week of cardio
At times where I was pushing it I was doing 6 hours of cardio in a single day. Up to about 100 miles of dedicated cardio a week, walking to and home from work, and spending 40 hours a week on my feet. You were dependent on these activities for release but not addicted. Addiction is the physical dependency as well as the psychological, but more than that people who are addicted to something are often times driven on such a level that it is usually well out of their control. The physical nature of alcohol and barbiturates WDs is so strong it can and does kill. You don't seem to know the difference between addiction and dependency.
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Ebenezer Dorrystone - Sun, 09 Feb 2020 14:48:42 EST fN+fIXKl No.901516 Reply
>>901508
Son of a (hopefully) ex meth and coke addict, so pardon me if I think you’re full of shit. Like I said, probably won’t be able to bridge the gaps of our experience, and that’s okay. To each their own.
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Doris Honeyridge - Sun, 09 Feb 2020 15:26:06 EST YN7IfY2y No.901517 Reply
>>901510
The distinction between psychological addiction and physical dependency is completely valid because it is measurable, we can observe how benzo's, alcohol and heroin cause the body to become physically dependent, but in your post, you say that the physical dependency is just one aspect, as is the psychological aspect of addiction, yet you also say "you don't seem to know the difference between addiction and dependency" like there's some clear line to be drawn between them, when anyone who's studied addiction knows there is no such clear and definitive line to be drawn, and you seem to as well.
>but more than that people who are addicted to something are often times driven on such a level that it is usually well out of their control.
I think this is really the crux of the issue, past the whole "you don't know real addiction" shit. When it comes down to it, how do you measure something like human will? I'm not saying there's no levels to addiction, but you and I know both know that "driven on such a level that is usually well out of their control" is so vague it's a pointless statement because we have no idea how much of what we do even is in our control in the first place. At that point you're opening up the can of worms of "do we even have free will", because at the heart of it nobody knows, and to act like you can make any sort of credible judgement based on anything but your own perspective on it is 100% bullshit. Making the distinction between physical and psychological addiction is credible and can be backed up on a biological level, but a clear line between "real" addiction and "just dependency" is based on your judgments about an inherently subjective experience, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not the same as the distinction between psychological and physical addiction, not at all. It'd be like saying that since we can make a distinction between the intensity of maternal love and romantic love, that we can differentiate clearly between a couple in "real romantic love" and a couple just in "puppy love", they're just not the same issue at all.
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Edward Shittingspear - Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:30:37 EST uuHsJ6zM No.901521 Reply
>>901516
Okay, you might be genetically predisposed to addiction. That doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about when you talk about addiction. Seriously, just shut the fuck up if you actually believe smoking pot and tripping is the same addiction as hard drugs.
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Edward Shittingspear - Sun, 09 Feb 2020 21:32:04 EST uuHsJ6zM No.901522 Reply
>>901517
>”driven on such a level that is usually well out of their control" is so vague it's a pointless statement
I’ll have what you’re smoking
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Mr_Shawmeen - Mon, 10 Feb 2020 17:06:36 EST X0mkTXzy No.901532 Reply
>>901517
My post about things being beyond people's control was logic born out of animal models used to study addiction and addictive behavior. If someone isn't terribly physically addictive then the animals tended to take it, leave it, or even sometimes avoid it(as is the case with psys) which is how some drugs(psy and dis) have been credited with having ANTIaddictive qualities when compounded with further human trials. Fancy. Fuckin. That. So yes, there does exist a line between dependency and addiction that is drawn and crossed with chemical compulsions generated within the brain caused by stimulus from outside the body. Dependency takes place all within the body and does NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT rely on something that is inherently physically addictive.

I'll be happy to analyze "maternal vs romantic" love as they happen to be TooooooooHoooatally different. See, either one can be more or less intense and neither one actually happens right away, and while both are caused by chemical reactions that, compelling as they can be, aren't supposed to happen at the same time. As a matter of fact those types of love happening within the same context is illegal most places. Platonic vs Romantic love really is an apples and oranges thing.....not that I'm judging you or the relationship between you and your mother.
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Doris Hannerbanks - Mon, 10 Feb 2020 17:12:31 EST zCS5uZfH No.901533 Reply
>>901507
>No, because breathing is not the same affect as snorting cocaine. To live, you need to breathe. With some really addictive drugs, you can feel like you absolutely need to do that drug to JUST live. I’m saying if someone took away your acid midway through your “addiction,” you wouldn’t kill that person. Same with weed. Ever. I’m saying the feeling of hopelessness that you get when you really want to keep holding your breath and be a God who doesn’t have to breathe but at the same time knowing you have to breathe being is like the feeling a hardcore alcoholic gets when the receptors start firing in overdrive or a cocaine addict when he’s trying to not buy another dope bag because he feels like a piece of garbage.
Honestly, I don't understand what you're getting at. I agree that a cocaine addict may feel like they might die if they stop. I'll even agree that they may actually die. I'll also agree that the feeling is similar to what someone who is drowning experiences. It doesn't doesn't follow that the physiological mechanism of cellular respiration is an addiction.

>Weed/acid will never *make* you feel like you’re a piece of garbage who needs to get high, (although they can, it’s common. I have a feeling they just make you a lot more aware of what you’re doing compared to other drugs that “put your head in the sand” imo)
Are you feeling okay? "X will never do Y, although it can and it's common"? Is it impossible or is it common? Which is it?

I agree that acid makes you more aware, though; both of yourself and of your present situation. It's not a good escapist drug like opioids or alcohol, which I've speculated is why it's so much less popular.

>>901508
>You still don’t know real addiction
Personally, no. Did I ever say otherwise? That doesn't mean I'll concede that breathing is an addiction, or that your definition of addiction is not silly.

>>901510
>You were dependent on these activities for release but not addicted.
As per the definition of addiction it wasn't an addiction because it hadn't yet caused any negative effects in my life. I realized what was happening and stopped myself before it progressed further.

>Addiction is the physical dependency as well as the psychological
An addiction is a behavior. It may be caused by physical dependence or by psychological dependence, or both.
Are you arguing that gambling addicts are not real addicts because their addiction doesn't have a physical component?
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Mr_Shawmeen - Mon, 10 Feb 2020 17:53:28 EST O61PecZf No.901534 Reply
>>901533
The gambling IS the physical component. Everything beyond that is kind of like sex addiction or your run of the mill adrenaline junky. Everything bridges on the verge of addiction when an activity impedes daily living or even threatens wellbeing in general, but in terms of chemical imbalance or erroneous response true chemical addiction isna different animal than sex addiction, gambling addiction, or various dependencies that are simple activities that got out of hand(no pun intended). That said those non drug based "addictions" are more like regular mental illnesses but also closely follow those behavior patterns without the druuuuuugs being a factor. True addiction that can be measured and modeled predictably in mammals in relation to certain mind altering substances is a qualitative descriptor of certain substances. Otherwise the varying degrees of random mental illness in different people for different reasons is pretty impressive and there can be a lot of overlap.
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Martha Hoffinghall - Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:58:40 EST fLWTJ6mK No.901579 Reply
1581627520052.webm [mp4] -(3970117B / 3.79MB, 482x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>901521
My point wasn't that I'm genetically predisposed to addiction, even though that might be true, it was that I've had up close experiences with addiction, and in my experience there isn't a clear line between someone being addicted or just dependent on something (separate from the issue of whether something causes addiction as as opposed to just dependency, which as I already said is something you can clearly define because one causes physical withdrawals and the other doesn't). Often times someone is addicted to/dependent on several things at once, and it's a very messy thing, made even more complicated by mental illness as someone already pointed out.
>>901522
Not surprised you didn't try to defend this point, because you can't. It's an open question how much human beings have control over themselves one way or the other, in really any circumstance. All we can do is speculate based on indirect evidence, the things we can measure, we can't measure human will directly.
>>901532
I can understand where you're coming from with the animal models of addiction, but when the key issue I'm pointing at is free will or the lack thereof, using animal models absolutely falls short. Totally agree with the point about psy and dis being anti-addictive, I entered this conversation saying that dis can be a valid, non addictive addition to psy trips, so right there with you on that.
> there does exist a line between dependency and addiction that is drawn and crossed with chemical compulsions generated within the brain caused by stimulus from outside the body.
I had to re-read this part of your post a few times, and I'm still not entirely sure what you mean by it. I can't find any use of the term "chemical compulsions" anywhere with google, so I'm guessing you just sort of made it up. Getting past that, are you aware that our brain chemistry is constantly affected by outside stimulus? Regardless of whether something is considered addictive or not? Watching porn for instance definitely causes increased amounts of reward chemicals in the brain, where would this land in your "chemical compulsions generated within the brain caused by stimulus from outside the body"?

Putting that aside, you claim romantic and maternal love are totally different, but don't really elaborate on it at all, just sort of trail off with some incestuous fantasy projection, which is interesting but not really related to the point you're trying to make. I don't expect you to actually define how maternal love is different from romantic love though, because it's exactly for that reason that I used it to demonstrate my point. Addiction and dependency, like love, is inextricably tied to the fundamentally subjective human experience that at the time of me writing this can NOT be reduced to mechanistic cause and effect or chemical actions/reactions. Because of this we can try to measure how addictive something is, and we can get a really good estimate of how it might affect the brain in terms of its chemistry, but every single brain is different, and addiction isn't just how much of a certain chemical is released when it's taken. Addiction is unfortunately much harder to pin down, even leaving out the mental illness aspect out that is so often a huge part of the discussion, because you can't separate these things out and act like you're making an objective judgement. The point that I'm trying to make, that I entered into this conversation making, is that addiction, in my experience, is not as cut and dry as making sure to never take drugs that release a certain chemical in the brain (in this case, MDMA and ketamine when combined with psy's). I never said smoking weed and tripping is the same addiction as "hard drugs" (whatever you define that category as, good luck reaching a consensuses with that btw). I'm saying that what control we have over what we do and how we live is an open question, and it's worth paying close attention to the way things we consume sway and tempt us, as well as how they affect our being, even innocuous (to denizens of this board) things like smoking weed and tripping.
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Mr_Shawmeen - Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:58:00 EST D8d4l5Vy No.901580 Reply
>>901579
Stimulus outside the body meant non indigenous stimulation of certain sets of receptors in the brain. Lots of stuff changes the chemical reactions in your brain from masturbation, listening to music, or even something as simple as turning your eyes to sunlight in the morning.
As for the differences between maternal love and romantic love there's been tons of papers on it. Maternal love is born from different chemical reactions and isn't as driven by sex hormones or secondary sexual characteristics so there IS a huge difference and it has been observed almost universally.
>>
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Martha Hoffinghall - Thu, 13 Feb 2020 18:32:48 EST fLWTJ6mK No.901581 Reply
>>901580
>Stimulus outside the body meant non indigenous stimulation of certain sets of receptors in the brain.
Do you have any examples of drugs that stimulate receptors in the brain that aren't already normally used in regular life?

My bad about the maternal love thing, my original point with it was that just because we can distinguish between maternal love and romantic love doesn't mean we can somehow make objective distinctions about what's real love and what isn't >>901517 The post I was replying to tripped me up because they were talking about the differences between them, I guess not realizing I agreed with that. Still, my bad for the slipup.
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Frederick Febberville - Fri, 14 Feb 2020 01:27:53 EST bs37+BMW No.901585 Reply
>>901581
Just shut the fuck up if you actually believe cannabis and classic psychedelic addiction is the same as hard drug addiction. Everyone else would have laughed you out the room a fat minute ago if you weren’t on an imageboard.
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Hedda Guvingville - Sat, 15 Feb 2020 22:04:10 EST FmcvfRo2 No.901620 Reply
>>901585
I literally never said that, but keep popping a blood vessel over things you project on other people

nb
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Shitting Webbledodging - Thu, 20 Feb 2020 16:40:45 EST Ic9Nn9cJ No.901684 Reply
>>901125
I can't get any visuals on low dose psys anymore. Or what I would call euphoria.

But I do get a very clear mind and the feeling of being hypersober. It's very relaxing. Feels like home, like my real self.
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Albert Pockford - Fri, 21 Feb 2020 13:29:36 EST 1EA+s/L6 No.901692 Reply
>>901125

You're never going to have the experience like that again, and you should be glad.

Chasing the feelings of the first trip is bad form, my man. Let it go, let that dove fly into the heavens and be glad you got to see it for a fleeting second.

Don't look back - look forward, look up, and always towards better things.
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Eugene Clonninglock - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:45:22 EST IUfz5v9T No.901705 Reply
>>901692

I had plenty of trips more profound and euphoric than my early trips. "Losing the magic" with psychedelics is not actually normal, and I have never, ever heard of it happening to a person after one trip, or even a few trips, or even after a few dozen. Not to say it is impossible, just not very probable in commonality.

OP is the first time I can recall seeing a person say the first trip was the best trip and nothing else came close.
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Awe' !!Bwteoy2D - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:05:10 EST EVGq6g0p No.901711 Reply
>>901692
this, if you consider it at all, just bathe in appreciation and gratitude for being blessed with the opportunity to witness such beauty.

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