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- Mon, 29 Jun 2020 03:06:20 EST P0HbgiHe No.903909
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Has anyone had a better trip than the very first one (intensity)?
I tried 4 times now within this year with wide spacing to replicate the first trip including doubling the dose of shrooms.
Are dutch truffles bunk or am I doing something wrong mentally since all the other times were just anxiety inducing and nothing much else.
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Nell Movingstutch - Mon, 29 Jun 2020 04:24:20 EST 98lXzIzG No.903910 Reply
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>>903909
Depends what you mean by intensity. I have had more intense trips than my first lsd trip but NOTHING has captured the MAGIC of that first trip. I mean if you mean you just want a really stroooong trip you can always just take more or combo it with mdma or dissociatives but the magic of those first few trips just is not there unless doing combos or combined with a practice like yoga/qigong etc.

By magic I mean the type of hallucinations like staring into the mirror and rapidly morphing into all kinds if creatures from mutated looking stuff to elven/angelic beings within seconds based on my thought, the sensations with minimal anxiety despite the appeared intensity and that dream like feel, feeling like i was operating out of a heart space, like i could do anything possible, getting sucked into videos almost seeing into a person's soul and living the experience they did making the video. This is all stuff that happened effortlessly on my first few trips especially my first with how the hallucinations would form and be on an effortless flowing level.

I believe you can recapture it by working through blockages and issues as they have given me glimpses of but it takes working on your mental and physical health. Like I can stare in the mirror and slowly start to morph and shit but it takes a mental effort and concentration. Besides merely acting on receptors in the brain, in my experience, like working with practices like qigong and medtiation, drugs can undo energy blockages in the nadi channels/meridians allowing for freeflow states of energy allowing you to enter into these mystical states of mind effortlessly. However like most drugs, with subsequent use they become less effective at doing so, requiring more of said drug and even still it's kinda different. It is when I started encountering my personal issues in trips (the blockages) and having to deal with them for me to get any semblance of my first few experiences.

Also by energy, put your hands together and slowly move them apart and back, maybe your palms or fingers will notice the subtle electromagnetic presence emitting from them. You can toy around with it on psychedelics as it is easier to feel on them and can feel it in currents moving sometimes and can sense where blockages are.
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Nicholas Fuggleworth - Mon, 29 Jun 2020 12:13:49 EST zCS5uZfH No.903921 Reply
>>903909
I've had a similar issue, OP. I'm still trying to understand what it is.
My first trip on LSD was in January and it was wonderful. I had extremely vivid CEVs that I would describe as the neurological equivalent of a video feedback loop. The next few trips I didn't have quite as strong CEVs, but music still sounded amazing, and I had other sorts of sensory distortions, particularly with proprioception. Since then I've eaten mushrooms a few times and the hallucinations are way milder. Music sounds basically the same as sober, and visuals are very rare. I do get auditory reverberation quite consistently, though.
I haven't noticed any difference between waiting two weeks or four, as far a effects go, and I've taken doses as high as 10 g (200 g fresh, boiled for ten minutes). That trip was pretty crazy. I forgot who I was and I thought reality only was the way it was because I willed it so.

>>903910
>Also by energy, put your hands together and slowly move them apart and back, maybe your palms or fingers will notice the subtle electromagnetic presence emitting from them.
That's just a tactile illusion. There's no mechanism by which the human body can perceive electromagnetic radiation of any kind, other than light through the eyes. Remember: your senses aren't perfect, and their failure modes are not intuitive. Just because you can perceive something doesn't mean the perception corresponds to anything real.
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Charlotte Derryfure - Mon, 29 Jun 2020 13:49:48 EST 337IwFP3 No.903922 Reply
>>903909
My very first and second trip were pretty weak because the acid I was sold was the equivalent of like 1/5th the standard potency that a hit usually is. I only had enough money to buy one hit the first time, then I went in on a strip with a buddy and we took 5 hits each, which was pretty well the same as what most hits do.

Then, the guy we bought acid from got some new acid and warned us of its potency. What he sold us clearly wasn't acid because it had an intensely bitter flavor, it lasted 14-16 hours, and based off my experiences with 1P-LSD and the dude I've been buying acid from lately (I'm pretty certain it's actually LSD.

Whatever it was, it was still some of the hardest I've tripped to date just on 2 hits. However, I've since had many easily much more intense/profound/trippy hallucinogenic experiences since that third trip that was so crazy.

I mean, it took some absurd and reckless megadoses and combinations of substances to achieve these states, but these experiences were in a totality different league than that non-LSD acid crazy trip. Every one of my most intense trips involve me at least combining megadoses of both dissociatives and psychedelics (one I also combined with 5-APB and 4-FA on top of that)..

Honestly, if you need to take your trips to the next level, combine dissociatives with the psychedelics. Also, take 800-2400mg piracetam about 2 hours before your trip. I'd read online some time ago that piracetam vastly potentiated the effects of psychedelics, but never paid it much mind because I had other racetams on hand that I tried that didn't seem t achieve much of anything. People were reporting tripping as much as 2-3x as hard when predosing piracetqam as they otherwise would have without predosing it. My eperiences with the other racetams were essentially bunk, I figured it was great exaggeration of how it could affect the intensity of the psychedelic experience. I tripped on roughly ~3.5-4g of mushrooms in combination with 3 hits of pretty good acid and felt more like I'd taken 6g of shrooms on top of 5 or 6 hits of LSD. It was a very pleasant surprise because I hadn't trip[ed that hard in a really long time despite really wanting to, and I didn't expect to have more than a moderately intense trip.

i think you may be like me a bit. My friend has done about as many psychedelics as I hqve over the years now and can handle himself about as well as me, but he took only one hit os LSD and 800mg piracetam plus another 800mg about 3 or 4 hours later... with maybe about a gram of shrooms total. He said honestly he thought he was tripping herder than he was comfortable with because he hadnt expected it to be so powerful (we've been buying LSD from this dude for a few months now and have several experiences on it, so our expectations were already pretty clearly established by that point). He also continued to trip much longer than I did. Even though I redosed one of the hits of LSD and about 1.5-2g of shrooms like 5 hours after the trip initially started, I felt more or less sober after 9-10ish hours. I've got HPPD pretty bad so the lingering visual effects and artifacts were already something I'm familiar with on a daily basis, rendering it totally mundane, and the trippy and profound thoughts and realizations had pretty well completely stopped within 8 hours. My headspace wasn't at baseline yet, but it might as well have been. Ge continued to have trouble with some confusion and even physical coordination and depth perception and shit for upwards of 16 or so hours.

All I know is that my personality is so well suited for the psychedelic experience that other than before that first non-LSD acid trip after the two weak ass acid trips I had (where I had a somewhat difficult but ultimately still overwhelmingly enjoyable experience), I've never had doubts or trouble with the experiences I have while tripping. I can experience unpleasant things while tripping, nit having a bad trip is outright impossible for me. I find the headspace and experience overall so easy to navigate through and utilize in any ways that I might desire that anything other than some megacrazy intense and profoiund experience is going to really lack any significane to me... in the sense that simply getting some breathing walls, bright colors, tracers, and wavy outlines of objects without more significant visual hallucinations/perceptual disturbances and devoid of any kidn of real mental component of a trip isn't particularly impressive or awe-insspiring once you've had a number of psychedelic experiences under your belt... it'all becomes rather mundane.Take that phenomenon and crank it up to 11 and you wind up viewing psychedelic experiences the way I do. It's not rlealy an actual trip for me unless I'm taking stupid amounts and entirely losing contact with reality, my identity completely dissolves, and my knowledge and understandings of the world as well as my ability to comprehend it are completely annihilated.

This is likely a direct result of a combination of two factors: my personality being so in tune with and suited for the psychedelic experience naturally, as well as how hard I tripped for my top 2 or 3 trip experiences being at such extremes that they totally reestablish the baseline reference points that I use to measure the intensity, profundity, and significance of any and all past and potential future trip[s I could have down to an unconscious level.

I mean, one experience I had was the fucking trip of my life. I know with absolute certainty that I was never have an experience of that caliber again the for as long as I live. It just doesn't seem possible by life, definition or something... like it's hardcoded into the structure of the universe now. I can never ever reach that point again... unless I experience basically the same thing again when I die. But, I'll be dead so that doesn't really count.
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Baltazaras Aklasis - Mon, 29 Jun 2020 19:13:17 EST kfiGoZKH No.903929 Reply
>>903909
Objectively, my first LSD trip was very underwhelming and weak in intensity.

Subjectively, it was mindblowing just how radically changed my mental state and thought patterns were. A lot of it had to do with the fact that the only drug that affects one's mind strongly I had tried at that point was cannabis. That and me being only 16.

It took 10 trips until I had one that was even close to the introspection level of the first one.
It's also likely that I may be idealising it in my memory and it wasnt at all how I remember and was just as underwhelming as visual hallucinations that night.

My secon trip though was extremely visually heavy, probably the only time where I was "blinded" by visuals and they made it hard to navigate physical reality.
>>
Cornelius Dezzlestock - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 00:00:19 EST yEGnWSts No.903931 Reply
>>903921
Brother I am gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I don't agree that it is merely just an illusion that should just be given some cursory glance over. I have been able to self heal my arthritic pain and mobility in my left hand through working with it sober, and when I explored it deeper in psychedelic trips I was able to release trauma I held onto in my body like one holds tension in the muscles, except through becoming more and more aware of that sensation which the entire body is emitting. I had no intention about trying to heal myself i was simply exploring that sensation and through playing around with it I noticed it having effect on my body. Minor little buzzes, sensations like blood flowing more in certain maybe due to musculature relaxing more, and eventually it felt like my entire stomach and abs letting go of tension that had been held onto for what felt like years. I experienced even weirder stuff like my sinusitis clearing when it was explored over around my head. I am sure I am gonna receive some smartass placebo/it's all in your head bullshit argument against this stuff to shrug it off but to me it doesn't cut it. Granted on some of the deeper releases I was using psychedelics like lsd but it was pretty weird that the only trip where my chronic sinusitis which never went away, even with shit like vicks, neti pots and shit went way the one trip i explore the electromagnetic sensations around my forehead. Even drugs with muscle relaxing qualities like benzos, SOMA, weed, dissociatives, while effective, did not give me the types of release in muscle tension in my stomach that this did.

So it just becomes increasingly hard for me to think it's merely just an illusion when my parents, my friends, even ones who I knew would be skeptical of this type of stuff and didn't think they would feel anything, described a sensation very similar to when you place two polar sides of magnets near eachother. Even some random I met at a bus stop who thought I was bullshitting him eventually came around to it when I gave him a demonstration.

Lastly I am not saying you can guaranteed heal X by feeling energy over a certain part of your body. Psychedelics and energy work helped me let go of trapped personal trauma and work through physiological problems that were personal to ME. Everyone is different and developed issues for different reasons but i would suggest it is worth exploring/working with these sensations if you are interested in releasing trauma or problems, just explore and you will be able to catch on to your own internal feedback mechanisms. Becoming aware of it and working with it through the meridians in qigong poses is the closest i have come to replicating my first few trips. The taoists talk about this shit and the meridians ad infinitum.

I just see a cycle of scientific minded "rational" people shrugging it off even when they can feel the sensations and NEVER giving it a chance or exploring it any further so they can just safely repeat the subjective/placebo mantra. The easiest you are gonna be able to feel this stuff is on psychedelics since they enhance your sensitivity intensely. But then you have the problem of these types then saying anything those sensations were an illusion because you were on psychedelics. Catch 22. You and a friend could drop a tab and he could fart next to you but that is now just an illusion cuz you're tripping bro. These games are the ego's best self defense mechanism. OP take what you will it helped me.
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Charlotte Greenbanks - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 01:56:40 EST 9JchIYMz No.903934 Reply
>>903931
It's great that you're able to rid yourself of your pain. There's no mechanism capable of doing what you describe. Even if hands were somehow able to manipulate "energy" (which they aren't), your body would not be able to use that energy to heal itself. It just doesn't work like that. You may have noticed that doctors don't use electricity or gamma rays to treat broken bones.
Now, if you're using the word "energy" to refer to something other than the physical quantity, then you'll need to say exactly what the thing you're talking about is and how it can be measured.

>I just see a cycle of scientific minded "rational" people shrugging it off even when they can feel the sensations and NEVER giving it a chance or exploring it any further so they can just safely repeat the subjective/placebo mantra.
I think you're a bit confused. You're the one making a claim that conflicts with established knowledge, you're the one who should be exploring it. Why would other people look for evidence of your claim?
You want people to take you seriously? It's simple: design a measuring device whose reported measurement increases when you move the "energy" near it and remains at baseline level at all other times. If you do that, then people can tear the device apart and understand exactly what it measures and what it is you're doing with your hands, and the body of knowledge is thus expanded. Until you do that, anyone who's even a little bit educated is going to dismiss your claim without even a cursory glance.
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Nicholas Genningbanks - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 04:19:42 EST iutPW4KG No.903936 Reply
>>903934
Spirit is real.
E=mc^2 tells us we are made of compressed energy.
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Nicholas Genningbanks - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 07:38:18 EST iutPW4KG No.903940 Reply
>>903936
“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.” - Einstein
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Charlotte Greenbanks - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 08:56:42 EST 9JchIYMz No.903941 Reply
>>903936
Oh, so the argument is "we're made of energy, so we should be able to manipulate energy"? Well, you're made of atoms, so manipulating atoms should be even easier, right? Why don't you try gathering all of your carbon atoms in the palm of your hand?
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Edward Hisslefoot - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 16:57:33 EST ol3lKwZ/ No.903948 Reply
>>903909
I honestly believe they are not for having a fun time even if they can be conducive to such. It may be the mushrooms and your subconscious hitting you at that. Are you sure you have taken action to the appropriate extent on the lessons that you have been taught? You wouldn't be too enthusiastic about teaching a student who is totally unresponsive to your lessons and just keeps asking the same stupid questions right. Well if shrooms are the teacher, just do your best to apply the lessons and take some boomers then. See what happens.
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Edward Hisslefoot - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 16:59:21 EST ol3lKwZ/ No.903949 Reply
>>903948
Personally I haven't tripped very hard for years and still feel like I have enough lessons to last me a decades until I learn to apply them fully. If anything I just get a reminder now, nothing ground breaking, altho as I said I haven't tripped extremely hard for many years now.
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Nicholas Genningbanks - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 18:40:50 EST iutPW4KG No.903953 Reply
>>903941
Why are you seeking an impossible proof? It is shallow, if you can do such a thing, you do it. Physical laws do not apply to spirit, and spiritual laws do not apply to physics. My work involves the energy centers of living beings and not nonliving matter. Spirit is what gives life, and this is why it is impossible for us as humans to create life capable of evolution and sentience from nonliving matter.
I have studied both physical science and esoteric philosophy for my whole life, and to me spirit and physics are two different concepts that are both necessary to describe the totality of reality, and not merely the physical side.
Spirit is like quality, or the energetic properties. Matter is the quantity, and physical properties. Energy and mass.
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Jack Fenninglet - Tue, 30 Jun 2020 22:34:29 EST re/VRnbH No.903958 Reply
>>903934
It's not so much the hands that can manipulate energy it is moreso the awareness reacts with whatever it is you want to call it in the field. And the body is better able to access its own innate self healing mechanism. Almost like the body can't efficiently heal what it is disconnected from. I can give examples like where i noticed trapped trauma, the skin was visibly, although subtlely less elastic and more aged looking. Musculature was tighter, usually harder to fully activate all the muscle fibers in that area compared suggesting poor communication in the nervous system. Trying to tense and relax muscles in certain areas if not very aware would result in other muscles tensed as a form of compensation. Like if i tried to tense one of my pec muscles the lat would tense instead. I think to avoid processing emotional trauma which i think the body hides in the fascia and muscles it starts playing tricks like that. For example where i had arthritis, instead of a smoother electromagnetic feel it was more staticy and had a denser kind of feel it is very hard to describe all i can say is it had less integrity like if you get two polar sides of magnets that kind of feeling you can feel is what i describe the hand felt closer to emitting when it didn't have the arthritis. How it seemed to self heal was simply slowly becoming aware of these sensations coming from it and moving my other hand in slowly to different areas around my hand, observing subtle sensations like little buzzing in my forearm, slight pulsing in finger, little things like that and after a while i began to notice i had more mobility in the two fingers i had it in. I had also figured out that i could treat it through my diet because of things i was allergic to causing immune respones. If i eat certain things it can flare up again so I still have to be careful of what I eat to keep it away. It really surprised me though that I could make it go away through a way other than diet though.

I can't really prove it I have no equipment or training to do a study to explore this stuff further myself. It would be nice to. I can make other people's hands start twitching and fingers spasm if I get them to put their hand in between mine and i can do it from a distance away. I have gotten people on a table and made them convulse and have weird sorts of releases through doing it too so it suggests to me there is something going on, like an information exchange. I don't think I do the "healing" if you want to call it my manipulating energy or whatever, just a greater awareness of this stuff and becoming aware off stuff they are holding onto helps their own body and field have a greater awareness and initiate its own self healing process. I think the body is capable of doing it without this stuff just it is constantly burdened with modern day lifestyle and exposure to crap through food, air, water, materials around them they interact with, not even including emotional/mental stress from people/life.

At the end of the day this stuff is free and I believe anyone can explore what I am talking about if they want to see for themselves if there is anything to what I am talking about. And if you are super lazy you can use psychedelics to, since they enhance the senses. You just have to get over people telling you it is not real because you felt it on psychedelics. Again plenty of people who have never touched them can feel it, they just never explore it further because they can't imgaine how powerful something so simple and free and personal can effect them. I can turn a microdose into a full blown psychedelic trip by working with this type of energy through practices like qigong now with it.

Anyways I am done with this. Why not give what I am talking about an honest exploration until waiting for there to be enough evidence. It is free, self empowering and rather simple. And lil bonus for ya boys. You can give women full body orgasms with this stuff, hands free ;)
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Charles Buvingbuck - Wed, 01 Jul 2020 07:31:17 EST 9JchIYMz No.903964 Reply
>>903953
>Why are you seeking an impossible proof?
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

>Physical laws do not apply to spirit, and spiritual laws do not apply to physics.
Well, I don't believe in spirits, but this statement implies that the spiritual world and the physical world we live in are completely separate and unable to interact with each other in any way.

>to me spirit and physics are two different concepts that are both necessary to describe the totality of reality
Yes, that's known as the "god of the gaps". Any time there's something that we don't yet understand you can say "see? It's spirits doing that!"
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Oliver Sepperlack - Thu, 02 Jul 2020 01:30:54 EST CmqwxcLj No.903980 Reply
Just take more drugs lol. Wait out the tolerance if you need to.
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Augustus Dinnerhark - Thu, 02 Jul 2020 22:52:49 EST 337IwFP3 No.903984 Reply
>>903958
It honestly sounds like you are becoming aware of something and doing things that wind up changing your physical state (reaction and tension, etc.), but I'm not convinced you know what those things are or what it actually is you're doing that results in a change, and what exactly has changed. You're observing certain effects and feelings and are probably misattributing the causes and mechanisms behind them, making your understanding of what's actually going on incomplete or potentially flat out inaccurate.

I'm not trying to say you have some vested interest in misattributing these things you're observing purposefully or anything, it's just that this kind of misattribution comes with the territory of recognizing patterns and determining the mechanisms and causes responsible for them. That's exactly the impetus for the creation of the scientific method--to determine sources of cognitive bias, misinterpretation of the facts involved in a given phenomenon, and to otherwise rule out sources of human error that may otherwise be corrupting the understanding we come to about how and why something happens, so that we can be reasonably certain that our understanding of the phenomenon is a model that accurately reflects the true nature of the reality we are witness to.

It's cool to come up with your own ideas behind what's going on by taking a closer look and analyzing the situation, but you should be extremely cautious and hesitant in ever coming to rest on a single conclusion... especially one that at least currently conflicts with established models of reality concerning the ability to manipulate physical states of the body/mind or otherwise directly influence matter while avoiding direct contact and using something as nebulous (meaning specifically here, terms people use in similar contexts to yours, most of the time specifically, using definitions that are as broad and undefined as possible--it needs to be extremely well defined in this case to make it any kind of valid explanation a contributing factor to or the entire mechanism behind the phenomena being experienced) as "energy" and "fields" to do it. Chances are more likely that there are unknown factors, variables, and possible mechanisms not being addressed because they haven't yet been discovered.
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Ian Tillingstone - Fri, 03 Jul 2020 20:02:10 EST iutPW4KG No.903993 Reply
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>>903964
>"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
I am simply pointing out that You are the one claiming that one can gather all the carbon atoms into the palm of one's hand.
Your skepticism is already inconsistent with the scientific method. By expressing your belief in nonbelief, you are declaring “I don’t believe even though I have no evidence for or against, simply I don’t believe.” In science we don’t do that, we instead say, “Okay, here's a hypothesis based off of initial observations", and in this matter the initial observations of people's spiritual experiences are the evidence for or against that hypothesis. The scientist would say, "look, I have no evidence for Spirit or any kind of mechanism that provides for giving life and consciousness". But on the other hand, a scientist would acknowledge no right to make a final statement about something he or she doesn’t know about, saying "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Seeking a certain framework for 'evidence' which supports your position and which seeks to discredit scores of already available evidence in the form of millions of people's reports of spiritual and mystical experiences and their dealings with metaphysical reality is showing that you truly do not believe in science, merely bias. You only believe in being right and stroking your ego.

>Well, I don't believe in spirits
It is not necessary for you to believe in something in order for it to exist. Viruses still exist even if you don't believe in vaccines. Gravity still exists even if you believe the Earth is flat. Life still exists even if you only identify yourself with nonliving matter.

>but this statement implies that the spiritual world and the physical world we live in are completely separate and unable to interact with each other in any way.
Esoteric philosophy has found that the physical world is a shadow of the etheric world, which is a shadow of the astral, and so forth. These things have been studied for centuries, but you would never consider that people have given serious thought and exploration to this subject because it doesn't align with what your ego is telling you is reality.

Take your hand and knock on your desk or wall. The configuration of molecules makes it feel very real and solid, doesn't it? But yet atomic physicists have concluded that hydrogen atoms are 99.9999999999996% empty space. But your perceptions only account for that which you can feel as real, and this is how we are mislead. Our senses shape our reality--not the other way around.
Not only is the material world a literal mirage, it never remains the same. Unlike something real, which by definition means it endures, the material world is highly impermanent. Nothing lasts here, in this world we mistakenly call the real world. Always changing, constantly in motion, morphing from one thing to another, our bodies inhabit a physical plane of existence that never remains the same, even from one moment to the next. Is physical life truly the complete picture of reality? How can we perceive anything we can observe as a true reality if it is only a shadow of what's there? The only reality with any realness is that which is lasting, genuine and authentic, whose existence is unchanging and eternal.
Our universe did not create itself. No matter how long we labour, as humans we could never create something on the same order of complexity. Even try as we may to create novel DNA and self-sustaining, reproducing creatures out of dead matter, they will never have life or sentience. The scientific method will never be able to explain where we came from and what makes us truly alive, and if you are refusing to explore philosophy then you will never hope to approach a sound understanding. But if you are biased, you were never going for a sound understanding from the beginning.

Philosophy deals with important questions are those which remain unanswered when all the facts are in. Moral questions are the prime example. No factual discovery could ever settle a question of right or wrong. But that does not mean that moral questions are empty questions or pseudo-questions, or that right and wrong have no basis in reality. We can think better about them and can even have more informed debates by learning new facts. This can't happen if you decide that right and wrong do not exist because they are not provable using the scientific method.

What is disparagingly called scientism insists that, if a question isn't amenable to scientific solution, it is not a serious question at all. Yet it is an ineliminable feature of human life that we are confronted with many issues that are not scientifically tractable, but we can grapple with them, understand them as best we can and we can do this with some rigour and seriousness of mind.

>Yes, that's known as the "god of the gaps". Any time there's something that we don't yet understand you can say "see? It's spirits doing that!"
Let us compare our positions.
I acknowledge there are things that are not possible to explain using science.
You acknowledge that science can eventually explain everything.
Philosophy uses reason, and so does the scientific method.
I am blind in my left eye and I have for a long time been able to see a completely different, yet unchanging reality when I look through it into that world. Yet I can also see the Earthly world through my right eye.
With your eyes you see the physical world in which you live, with your two eyes and mind fixated on physical reality.
We are both the same in that we believe in what we can see and perceive. It's the amount and quality of experiences we've had which makes us differ in our beliefs.
Instead of telling scores of others that their experiences are nonsense and trying to take these significant experiences away from them, you should give people something to believe in, something to live for, something to explore. But perhaps you do not care about those things.
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Clara Murdworth - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 05:03:21 EST 9JchIYMz No.903994 Reply
>>903993
Boy, you sure can spew some drivel.

>I am simply pointing out that You are the one claiming that one can gather all the carbon atoms into the palm of one's hand.
When did I make such a claim? I asked whether it would follow from previous statements (>>903936) that matter can also be arbitrarily manipulated. If you think that's a spurious extrapolation then please explain how, because I'm honestly confused by what these people believe energy is.

>“I don’t believe even though I have no evidence for or against, simply I don’t believe.”
"Not believing X is true" and "believing X is false" are distinct situations. I don't need any evidence to not believe, I can simply suspend my judgement until I see evidence that supports a claim.

>available evidence in the form of millions of people's reports of spiritual and mystical experiences
Honestly I have no idea why you bring this up. Surely you know that personal anecdotes are well, well below the standard of evidence of science, no matter how fervently the person can swear they're telling the truth.

>showing that you truly do not believe in science, merely bias. You only believe in being right and stroking your ego.
Nah, you're completely mistaken. Nothing would make me happier than to able to believe spirits are real. I mean as undeniable that light exists. But the fact is not only there's no evidence they exist, there's not even any reason to think they might exist, beyond ancient superstition and reports from people who believe ancient superstition.

>Viruses still exist even if you don't believe in vaccines. Gravity still exists even if you believe the Earth is flat. Life still exists even if you only identify yourself with nonliving matter.
Viruses, gravity, and life are detectable and measurable, while spirits are not. One takes much more faith than the other.

>Esoteric philosophy has found that the physical world is a shadow of the etheric world
Oh, well, if esoteric philosophers say spirits are real, then the matter is settled. I'm sorry for being so dismissive, I had no idea there had been an official decree. Obviously I'll believe whatever esoteric philosophers say.
Honestly, I don't know why people bothered with the scientific method the last 200 years if all we had to do was ask philosophers their opinion.

>you would never consider that people have given serious thought and exploration to this subject because it doesn't align with what your ego is telling you is reality
No, I just don't consider "serious thought" a reliable source of information about reality. I think experimentation is the only way to learn about the world and everything else is mental masturbation.

>Even try as we may to create novel DNA and self-sustaining, reproducing creatures out of dead matter, they will never have life or sentience.
Completely baseless. The question of whether brains are magical or if consciousness is the result of physical processes alone is a question that science may yet answer. "All" we need to do is build a brain out of silicon. And if you say "we can never know if it's conscious" I'm going to answer back "I can never know if you are conscious".

>The scientific method will never be able to explain where we came from and what makes us truly alive, and if you are refusing to explore philosophy then you will never hope to approach a sound understanding.
Philosophy will definitely never be able to answer those questions. I you want to learn about reality then you need to probe reality. Even if you could figure out the answer to life, the universe, and everything merely by thinking really hard, how could you know you got it right without testing it in the real world?

>No factual discovery could ever settle a question of right or wrong. But that does not mean that moral questions are empty questions or pseudo-questions, or that right and wrong have no basis in reality.
I disagree. Beyond the somewhat trivial fact that many of our moral opinions have an evolutionary basis, the universe certainly doesn't seem to care about right or wrong.

>We can think better about them and can even have more informed debates by learning new facts. This can't happen if you decide that right and wrong do not exist because they are not provable using the scientific method.
I am okay with such debates not being had. I see no reason to think otherwise. To me such discussions are as relevant as whether green is a better color than blue.

>You acknowledge that science can eventually explain everything.
Not exactly. I think that if some aspect of reality is explainable, then it's explainable by science alone.

>you should give people something to believe in, something to live for
Should I? Why? I place no special value in believing. To me it's more important to believe as few false statements as possible than to believe as many true statements as possible. I personally think such a mindset is more conducive to rational thought, and it itself is more important than having false hopes. I'm sorry, unfounded hopes. If thinking rationally and abandoning poorly-justified beliefs leads you to despair, then perhaps you have good reason to despair.
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Ian Tillingstone - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 11:18:32 EST iutPW4KG No.903997 Reply
>>903994
>well below the standard of evidence of science
I would care about that only if we were dealing with a matter that science can explain, which we are not.

>beyond ancient superstition and reports from people who believe ancient superstition.
I am hardly ancient. I simply experience what I experience, and because there's no explanation to be found in the sciences which explain my experiences, I explore the material available that does deal in what I'm experiencing, materials which are based in reason.

>Viruses, gravity, and life are detectable and measurable, while spirits are not. One takes much more faith than the other
Everyone has a spirit, even if you neglect it.
Detect and measure what happened before the universe began. Surely such a thing would be detectable and measureable. Detect and measure what's inside of black holes. Detect and measure the reason we exist instead of being mere space rocks in your cold, dead, spiritless universe. Detect and measure. The universe did not start itself, it's impossible to have started itself and for DNA to spontaneously assembled itself and formed organisms from random elements and compounds. No matter how long we wait, it will never happen if we tried it. What is the invisible hand that guided the universe towards creation and our birth? Here's a hint - Spirit is eternal, too, meaning it was there before the universe began and will always be.

>Oh, well, if esoteric philosophers say spirits are real, then the matter is settled. I'm sorry for being so dismissive, I had no idea there had been an official decree. Obviously I'll believe whatever esoteric philosophers say.
Honestly, I don't know why people bothered with the scientific method the last 200 years if all we had to do was ask philosophers their opinion.

Your opinion is that Spirit doesn't exist. But the truth is that it does. Even if you don't believe in it, it exists. Even if you don't want it to exist, you have a spiritual body. These things are not opinion, even if they don't satisfy an arbitrary human standard of proof.

>mental masturbation
That would be coming to a forum for psychedelic users in spite of the fact that psychedelics have been used since before human history to enhance our connection with Spirit and commune with the Divine, and then trying to convince people that you are superior because you think you don't have a spirit.

>And if you say "we can never know if it's conscious" I'm going to answer back "I can never know if you are conscious".
Did you know that Spirit is the source of consciousness?
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Ian Tillingstone - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 11:32:31 EST iutPW4KG No.903998 Reply
>>903994
>If thinking rationally and abandoning poorly-justified beliefs leads you to despair, then perhaps you have good reason to despair.
I think rationally about spirit and I am fine with my beliefs.
An atheist like you could never bring someone like me to despair. You're the one who will despair when you find out what's waiting for you after you die, since you clearly don't care about right and wrong nor believe your actions will have consequences in the afterlife.
A shame you post on these boards. Psychedelics are meant to expand your consciusness, not make you arrogant about other people's descriptions of reality that don't align with yours.
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Clara Murdworth - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 12:18:51 EST 9JchIYMz No.903999 Reply
>>903997
>I would care about that only if we were dealing with a matter that science can explain, which we are not.
Huh. Yet in that paragraph you were trying to show that I don't care about science by exemplifying a piece of "evidence" I disregard because it doesn't fit my preconceived notions. Now you say that evidence relates to something that science has no opinion on.
So is it that my "skepticism is inconsistent with the scientific method", or that applying my skepticism consistently to a worldview would necessarily lead to the conclusion that there's no evidence for spirits, and that makes you uncomfortable? Because like I said, if I could believe in spirits I'd be happier, but my day-to-day life would be basically the same. The one who seems to have placed a lot of importance on that question is you, to the point of saying it's something you live for.

>I am hardly ancient. I simply experience what I experience, and because there's no explanation to be found in the sciences which explain my experiences, I explore the material available that does deal in what I'm experiencing, materials which are based in reason.
Yes, I'm sure if you had never heard of the idea of a "spirit" you'd have come up with by yourself.

>it's impossible to have started itself and for DNA to spontaneously assembled itself and formed organisms from random elements and compounds
You say that, yet there's literally no reason to think that. It's not like DNA is made from components that are fundamentally alien to physics and chemistry. It's mostly carbon and hydrogen. If we had looked deep into cells and had found something that was clearly different from matter found anywhere else you might have a point, but cells appear to be constructed entirely from (admittedly highly complex) molecular machines.

>Your opinion is that Spirit doesn't exist.
No. Again: I don't believe in spirits. When I say that I'm not making a factual statement about the existence of spirits, I'm making a factual statement about my internal mental state. I looked at the evidence and I remain unconvinced. I have also never seen any evidence that spirits definitely don't exist. I have seen evidence that humans can't directly manipulate and sense electromagnetism.

>That would be coming to a forum for psychedelic users in spite of the fact that psychedelics have been used since before human history to enhance our connection with Spirit and commune with the Divine, and then trying to convince people that you are superior because you think you don't have a spirit.
I'm sorry, but what does it matter what people tens of thousands of years ago used hallucinogens for? Really, what's your point?

>Did you know that Spirit is the source of consciousness?
No, I didn't know that. I'm very interested, how did you come to that conclusion?

>You're the one who will despair when you find out what's waiting for you after you die, since you clearly don't care about right and wrong nor believe your actions will have consequences in the afterlife.
Please. Threats of hellfire work on children. I assume we're all adults here.

>Psychedelics are meant to expand your consciusness, not make you arrogant about other people's descriptions of reality that don't align with yours.
Apparently psychedelics haven't expanded your consciousness enough to understand that other people might use psychedelics for different reasons than you do. I mean, look at you. Someone ruffles your feathers a bit by asking why you believe what you believe (with the implication that it's not a good enough reason) and you launch into a name-calling tirade. Which of us is more close-minded? The one who says he doesn't know and asks people to have higher standards of evidence, or the one who's absolutely sure he does know and calls the other arrogant for making that request?
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Cedric Fuckingwill - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 20:28:18 EST iutPW4KG No.904005 Reply
>>903999
>Threats of hellfire
You have mentioned hellfire, so those are your words, not mine. I simply am referring to the law of karma. What made you jump to the conclusion that I was saying you would burn?
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Reuben Bupperpog - Sat, 04 Jul 2020 21:18:37 EST 9JchIYMz No.904006 Reply
>>904005
The real question is whether I care about the distinction. "Believe as I do or you will suffer" is a shitty thing to say regardless of the particular nature of the suffering and even regardless of whether the threat is credible. You're trying to use fear as a rhetorical tool.
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Cedric Fuckingwill - Sun, 05 Jul 2020 02:10:46 EST iutPW4KG No.904010 Reply
>>904006
Facts don't care about whether you feel something is a 'shitty' thing to say or not.
Why then are you interpreting my warning about divine justice as something to be fearful of?
Perhaps it is because you have a good reason to be afraid.
The reality is that there is an aspect of reality you refuse to acknowledge as the truth, and this lack of acceptance of the complete picture is going to be reflected in what you do with your time here on Earth and your dealings with others. Everything you do here affects your karma. Do good things and you will be rewarded. Refuse to be held accountable and you will get what you deserve.
It is not a threat to point out that people like you who find no truth in divine justice are not capable of doing good things. But you have free will and you are free to do as your wish, just as I am free to warn you to check yourself.
You are free to continue believing that you are soulless and that you can do whatever you want to do and believe whatever you want to without any consequences in this world, but don't think for a moment that you will escape judgement or not have to pay for your misdeeds.
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Eric Bugenhagen - Sun, 05 Jul 2020 14:10:38 EST i3yt+wEf No.904013 Reply
>>903931
I can feel the energy travelling around my body and such and enabling a "bliss" mode for my mind while sober, but how do you go on about combating psychological issues with this?
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Reuben Bupperpog - Sun, 05 Jul 2020 19:09:33 EST 9JchIYMz No.904014 Reply
>>904010
>Perhaps it is because you have a good reason to be afraid.
When did I say I was afraid? What I said was that you are trying to use fear as a rhetorical tool. You are trying to scare people into thinking like you. Do you not see why this is a problem? Beyond the ethics of threatening those who don't agree with you, if you're really speaking the truth then why do you need to resort to appeals to emotion to try to convince people? If the best argument I had for my position was "if you don't agree with me you'll suffer" then I would be concerned.

>The reality is that there is an aspect of reality you refuse to acknowledge as the truth
That's hilarious. When did I refuse anything? It's like I'm sitting in a restaurant and the waiter gives me an empty plate, and when I ask where the food is he asks "why are you refusing to be fed?!" I asked you point blank how you know spirits are the source of consciousness and you didn't even acknowledge the question.
Sorry, but I can't believe in karma or spirits if I haven't been shown any reason to think those things exist. That's not refusal, I just can't choose what I believe. Just saying "it's true, you have to believe it" doesn't do anything. Someone who's lying to you will say the exact same thing to get you to believe them.

>people like you who find no truth in divine justice are not capable of doing good things
That's interesting. I think you might have revealed more about yourself than you intended. In other words, the reason you do good deeds is not because of empathy or concern for others, but because you're scared of what might happen to you if you don't do them.
What did you imagine when I said that the universe doesn't seem to care about right or wrong? Do you think I follow that up with "therefore I can do anything I want"? That I go around kicking puppies and starting fires for larks? Do you actually think atheists are psychopaths without empathy? Do you think you are one, who needs to be kept in line with the threat of punishment after death?
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Beatrice Pullertan - Mon, 06 Jul 2020 07:00:17 EST 65fL0FRI No.904019 Reply
>>904014
Yes, atheists are not capable of doing good works by definition; God is love, spirit is life. So if you are not for Spirit you are against life, and you are trying to deceive and drag others down with you into the second death.

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