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Discord Now Fully Linked With 420chan IRC

I had sex with my cousin and now she wants to fucking tell everyone

- Wed, 13 Nov 2019 21:34:31 EST KDZsipM+ No.532371
File: 1573698871781.jpg -(39939B / 39.00KB, 750x500) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. I had sex with my cousin and now she wants to fucking tell everyone
Why can’t people keep secrets!? What the fuck is so hard about it? Especially when it’s mutually assured destruction, ESPECIALLY when it doesn’t even involve anyone else.

I’ve known her my entire life but we were never really very close. Like, of course I would have said I loved her like family, because of course she was, you know she would sleepover all the time with her brothers and we were very comfortable like you would expect family to be. But just never a one on one relationship as kids.

But so I wanted to move to London for this job I was stoked on getting and she lived there already (studying) and said I should move in with her since her roommate was leaving. It was just a normal arrangement and it sounded like a great idea, she’s only 2 years younger than me so I knew we’d get along and I knew she already had a lot of friends so I thought it was the perfect place to meet new people as well. Which, it all went incredibly well, just how we planned. I’ve lived here for like 8 months now and it’s been so much fun, and as it happens we have just been having a lot of fun together as well, and just naturally we’ve had the opportunity to talk a lot, we smoke a lot of weed together, watch Netflix pretty late, just generally vibing with each other and really getting along, sharing secrets and shit.

So it really just happened, I mean I was obviously aware of the fact that I wanted to fuck her from almost the first week. Like, the first weekend we got along really well and she looked really hot and I was basically like “for sure I’d fuck her”, but I just NEVER thought it would happen. But one night we got very drunk (it was supposed to be a pre-drinks for a big night that just fizzled) and it was just us, music was playing, we were on the verandah and just like sharing secrets and stuff and SHE said to me: “probably my biggest secret is that I’ve wanted to have sex with you for months now”… and from there (for the first time in my life by the way) I just took charge and went for it and it was pretty fucking amazing.

I’m not going to go into detail because this is actually a real problem and not a wankfic but, essentially, we fucked non-stop for like 2 weeks after this. I will admit completely it was a combination of the taboo element, the “new relationship” feeling, the fact that we’re both on holidays atm and living together so we have nothing else to do really, and I guess to be honest that element of being family really makes you comfortable with someone… but all that together and it’s been pretty obscene.. like really hot and I will wank to this for the rest of my life but also we have both decided that Yeah it’s just time to quit this cause it’s getting out of hand, and even agreed that I would move out to return us both to normal.

BUT NOW SHE WANTS TO TELL HER PARENTS. She said she’s feeling “crushing guilt” and has to get it off her chest. LIKE FUCKING WHY?? what’s to feel guilty about? Obviously we shouldn’t be doing it anymore but fuck what happened happened and it’s in the past and she feels like she needs to tell our family, like everyone is going to fucking find out. WHY DOES ANYONE NEED TO KNOW. we can just move on with our lives, lock it away, never speak of it ever again and in 6 months it’ll be vapour, it’ll be gone. Why the fuck do people have so much trouble just letting go of this shit?
Thomas Gugglefork - Thu, 14 Nov 2019 01:46:35 EST UuASd/Tk No.532374 Reply
Amazing. Simply amazing.
Hugh Crullerville - Thu, 14 Nov 2019 11:28:12 EST ZdyXyUcS No.532379 Reply
Haha Jesus man Jesus! Oh my fucking GOD!
Angus Fallerhood - Thu, 14 Nov 2019 19:01:57 EST JN7+Pr1C No.532386 Reply
Developments, please.
Frederick Bambleman - Fri, 15 Nov 2019 00:05:48 EST d3ovggYg No.532391 Reply
This is a prelude to your extortion
Hamilton Turveywell - Fri, 15 Nov 2019 00:10:29 EST yAylnIhi No.532392 Reply
OP, please fuck your cousin more and post a detailed report.
Reuben Piffingsedging - Fri, 15 Nov 2019 00:20:11 EST 8HqgZLGV No.532393 Reply
im so sorry but

you deserve it

for the hot cousin sex

you lucky dog

cousin nuzzler

damn what i wouldnt give

also got semi hard
Basil Hegglestone - Sat, 16 Nov 2019 12:51:03 EST JCATCBbz No.532410 Reply
OP how're you gonna give me a boner like that and then leave me hangin'? You deserve to be caught you fucking tease 8==D
Augustus Nicklebanks - Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:55:00 EST jnas4L6T No.532411 Reply
bruh you tasted the forbidden fruit. let this be a lesson to you
Sophie Susslespear - Sat, 16 Nov 2019 15:07:54 EST adjylITm No.532412 Reply
Because women.
They are retarded, man.
I also almost fucked my cousin. I'm not even sure how we're related. I met her randomly on a night out in town, then realised we have the same family name. We made out that night, but that's all. IDK I could never look at her as a relative, it turns out we were indeed related, not closely, but yeah. My last name is pretty rare and we lived in the same town, just didn't know eachother.
I would still fuck her. Idk seems no big deal to me.
Fanny Guvingnut - Sat, 16 Nov 2019 19:18:52 EST pQnMIp8B No.532414 Reply
lol, chicks are fucking cray cray. Should have been comfortable with the idea before making a move OP, or at least got to know the girl. Not the first one, nor the last, live and learn.
Oliver Waggleson - Sun, 17 Nov 2019 01:45:58 EST XWo5I3wS No.532415 Reply
I would say it's worth noting the traits of people before you get closer to them as you have. People make information about themselves available when interacting with such people. It is out there you just have to look for it. Turn that function into the "on" position. You'll be doing better than before. lol Hopefully this doesn't end up in some reputation marring context. Where you just get an endless barage of slander coming your way in your day. Who wants endless attacks? Just instance after instance? No one. That's exactly who. Time will tell what happens. Fingers crossed for a non-godawful one. High hopes. Best wishes. lol
Edwin Fundlemerk - Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:22:15 EST KDZsipM+ No.532416 Reply
Right sorry I have been away. So basically she told her parents, her parents told her brothers and I am being painted as a creep who moved down with the sole intention of "grooming" her. She's fucking 22 years old, yeah I was her older cousin but fuck them because they know I've never had any special power over her. It's what I get for fucking her, and now she's walking around the house crying saying she should have never told and apologising say I was right and she's a fucking mess. Like YES NO SHIT YOU FUCKING IDIOT. But it's what I get for doing it. The problem is we've been talking a lot about it and all of her turmoil comes from the stigma, like she said she looks at herself in the mirror and says "I'm actually incest" and the fact that it very truly does apply to her really disturbs her. And I can get how that upsets her obviously but she's just caught up with the label, she keeps thinking there's like a material/tangible state of being as if she has crossed over now into incestdom or something. I keep trying to tell her nothing has fucking changed at all but she can't see what I mean, I will admit I can get a little long winded with her but it's because she makes it so hard to talk to. Like she accuses me of justifying our actions by rambling about right and wrong etc. BUT I'M NOT EVEN TRYING TO BE A FUCKING SOPHIST OR WHATEVER SHE JUST WON'T SEE THAT THERE'S MORE (or actually much fucking less) TO IT THAN INCEST-NOT INCEST. I tried to explain to her that her problem can literally be solved by not giving a fuck, but of course, to someone who gives a fuck this is the worst advice anyone can get.

I'm sympathetic to her because she's really confused by this, but then I also get very upset as well. I never pursued her once and yes I wanted to fuck her basically straight away but I'm well aware that I've spent my adolescence on all sorts of fucking image boards so I know enough that I'm desensitised to a lot of shit. I'm not enthusiastic and I never tried to fuck her. SHE CONFESSED TO ME THAT SHE WANTED TO FUCK AND I'M SUPPOSED TO DENY THIS LITERAL DOUJIN TIER SET UP LIKE HOLY FUCK.

But whatever, I'm a disgusting pervert. Her brothers hate me (who I have loved like brothers myself). My father is incredibly disappointed in me. My sisters think I'm disgusting. Weirdly enough, my cousin is my only friend left... Fuck her so much fuck her. But I made my bed, whatever I can't give a fuck anymore, every other cunt can get fucked. I'd fuck her again a hundred times at this point just for the sheer fuck of it and rubbing it in their face.
Cedric Clucklepeck - Sun, 17 Nov 2019 08:53:40 EST adjylITm No.532417 Reply
Everything exciting, new, or good in your life, will always be ruined, by a fucking woman.
Clara Cluttingsidging - Sun, 17 Nov 2019 09:05:38 EST zfo60YSn No.532418 Reply
HAHAAAHAHAHA OH MY FUCKING GODDDDDDDDDDDDD HAHAAAHAHAHA Jesus, man... That's fucking great! You've got to tell her it's okay, that you'll get through it together, calm her down, smoke her up, and BLAST HER INSIDE OUT
Shit Cendlebury - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 03:53:28 EST Hl2xKkLV No.532430 Reply
>Weirdly enough, my cousin is my only friend left... Fuck her so much fuck her. But I made my bed, whatever I can't give a fuck anymore, every other cunt can get fucked. I'd fuck her again a hundred times at this point just for the sheer fuck of it and rubbing it in their face.
I'm fucking crying here jesus christ anon. This last part is incredibly based though.
Oliver Dartlock - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:55:38 EST UuASd/Tk No.532431 Reply
Everything exciting, new, or good in your life, will always be ruined, by fucking your cousin.
Ernest Decklehot - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:41:22 EST S1e5N1Bk No.532432 Reply
Look at the bright side. The bar for you has now been lowered so far down now that you've got nothing left to ever hold you back. Anything relatively minor that they might've judged you for won't be shit to them. Yeah, they all look down on you and you have been shamed, but you've been liberated from their standards and judgment for the rest of your life.

I mean, I haven't fucked my cousin, but I'm basically in a similar boat because of drug abuse and being a general fuck up in the past. I've improved, but I've already bottomed out on their expectations. Personally I couldn't give less of a fuck what they expect out of me. I expect more out of myself and to improve, but I'll never feel like I need to be doing something for their sake ever again. Now any time I grow, it's directly a consequence of my own decision making.
Alice Bunlock - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:36:59 EST sfPLkLI1 No.532438 Reply

seems like you fucked up/should have known better and messed your life up real bad
Alice Bunlock - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:38:44 EST sfPLkLI1 No.532439 Reply

>fucks your cousin
>calls women retarded

what about you though?
Nell Shakelock - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:56:36 EST y7Dz2ioN No.532440 Reply

"I'm pregnant"
Thomas Benninghood - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 14:59:00 EST eGS6zz6/ No.532441 Reply

Fuck your cousin pregnant and make a new family to replace your old one.
Cyril Doblingspear - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 15:07:27 EST jZLVDzQi No.532442 Reply
She's saying you seduced her?

Sue her for libel
Isabella Coblingsodge - Mon, 18 Nov 2019 19:31:45 EST UuASd/Tk No.532443 Reply
I find it quite peculiar how often OP in both posts has repeated over and over that "he knew [he] wanted to fuck" his cousin from the "moment he got there". That is most assuredly an expression of guilt, and there are some notable "truths" that he lets slip out because they must being weighing heavily on his mind, even though makes sure to rationalize why it was not seduction on his part.
Nathaniel Pickbury - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 00:53:34 EST KDZsipM+ No.532444 Reply
No she's not saying I seduced her to anyone. It's just now that it's come out my family have the idea that the only reason I moved down to London in the first place and roomed with her was all to the end of fucking her.
I'm guilty as fuck, mate. I did the deed shamelessly. I'm not upset I did it, not even upset with her really, even if she does frustrate me... I just wish it was as easy for her to never say a word about it as it was for me. As for the seduction on my part I wouldn't know the first thing about seduction, we smoked a fuck ton of weed and got really close, of course I could feel a sexual tension building but it was the same as any situation I've been in, it's a weird feeling of attraction that you aren't sure if mutual until someone makes an explicit signal. I took part in that ritual for sure no question.
Matilda Fuckingfield - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:02:33 EST 1VcUBcZx No.532445 Reply
1574143353232.gif -(733566B / 716.37KB, 400x276) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
This is one of the most retarded yet subsequently hilarious threads I have ever read on this board. Also

this op, make sure to use birth control so you don't accidentally get deformed babbies
Rebecca Bloffingstodge - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 01:43:35 EST eGS6zz6/ No.532446 Reply

They're projecting their unconscious-desires to get a piece of that hot cousin of yours.
Angus Dribbermotch - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 03:52:49 EST adjylITm No.532447 Reply
For one thing, I did not fuck my cousin. I would, still, because I did not even know her all my life and I can't look at her as a relative, I only know her as a girl I met in town. I didn't tho.
For another, you seem to be the retarded one here, you can't even greentext.
Let me show you how you should've put it:
>fucks his cousin
>calls women retarded
So the shit would make some sense, unlike now, but then again, I never said I fucked my cousin. So still no sense made there, and you're the one calling others retarded. Amazing.

This is some bullshit, man. No one forced the girl to have sex with her cousin and she still did it, she cant handle it and becomes the victim and ruins the guys life in their family. When it was a 50-50 situation all along. No one hates her, everyone hates him.
So yeah. Women suck.
Matilda Grandbury - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 03:54:59 EST n3M4YBVD No.532448 Reply

Glad to hear you don't like women. More for meeeee~ C :
Angus Dribbermotch - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:00:40 EST adjylITm No.532449 Reply
I love women dude. I have been together with one for 5 years now, and she's great.
However, I know it is inevitable that this will end some day too, and when it will, it's gonna look like she's the victim. I know one day, under some circumstances, she will fuck me up. Women don't take responsibility for their actions. It's in their nature. Society will always see a woman as a victim in any relationship, unless she like, fucking murders her husband or something. Even then, people will find a way to justify that.

Women will always play the victim. You can trust them, but only to some degree.

As you can see from OPs situation, it's a perfect example of women not taking responsibility for their actions, putting the blame on others, only caring about themselves, and playing the victim. Sooner or later, it will always come down to that. Always, dude. You can have a loving wife for many years, she can make you really happy, she can be very devoted and faithful to you, but at the end of the day, she will fuck you up, and everyone will think she's right.

It is what happens 99.9999% of the time you're dealing with women in any kind of relationship.
Matilda Grandbury - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:18:06 EST n3M4YBVD No.532450 Reply

I don't think a man can truly love someone towards whom they are prejudiced.
Angus Dribbermotch - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:36:38 EST adjylITm No.532451 Reply
It doesn't matter what you think. You are entitled to your opinion. If you don't think I'm right in what I say I'm ready to hear why, your reply is merely an irrelevant statement about your opinion of my love life...
What I said isn't prejudice, it's thousands of years of experience with women. It's in the history books, it's in everyone's past experiences with women. It's in OPs post. It's everywhere. In today's society, woman are conditioned to get away with everything. They know it. They abuse the fact they are a women every day of their lives. It's okay. We have to put up with it. We have to deal with it. It is what it is, man. Everyone is just trying to get by. Women get by by not taking responsibility and playing the victim. It's too easy for them. Everyone instantly assumes they are the victim anyway. OPs family isn't saying THEY fucked... they're saying OP fucked OP's cousin. It's even in the words, man.
A guy wouldn't flip their shit like that, telling their family, fucking up the other persons life, knowing damn well that in this situation, he will be a victim and the other person will be hated forever. Some would obviously, but very few. Almost all women would pull this though, I think you can admit what we see here is a very stereotypical women's move, all the drama, insecurity, etc. for a reason.
You just have to understand the rules of the game, you can find love and be happy, but deep down, you always have to be prepared.
Because women can become the victims of any situation very easily. Too easily.
Matilda Grandbury - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:50:52 EST n3M4YBVD No.532454 Reply

I want you to list specific, concrete things your ex's have said or done, which have led you to hold this prejudice.
Angus Dribbermotch - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:57:46 EST adjylITm No.532455 Reply
Nothing unusual. I've not been terribly hurt in this regard. My relationships never ended in any drama comparable to OPs post.
My prejudice can be backed by studying sociology and human nature and being observant of women's role and mannerisms in our society. It's based on fact and experience.
Angus Dribbermotch - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:24:13 EST adjylITm No.532458 Reply
My experience is people in general are quick to assume and believe a woman is the victim in any kind of situation, wether its true or not. Women also tend to take advantage of this.
This is because women are considered the "weaker" sex that has to be protected, etc. This is not necessarily true but is obviously engraved in our society.
Do you not agree?
Barnaby Dramblemire - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:52:15 EST y7Dz2ioN No.532459 Reply

it's all this fucking inverse racism/sexism etc., this representation crap, people who fought for equality never had anyone else to enforce it for them, whereas now you've got entitled parasites who enforce a racist/sexist lack of perspective and identify them by their gender/race, rather than co-existing in spite of it. it's just a form of social control and it limits/compromises the individual and the collective by forcing people to think in terms of gender/race etc. rather than in spite of it and then also damages culture by putting people from different cultures in the same system of thought. and so then you end up with SJW terrorists who are safe because they wear the right uniform.

welcome to the civilian police state.
Rebecca Bloffingstodge - Tue, 19 Nov 2019 11:02:50 EST eGS6zz6/ No.532464 Reply

I'm not quick to assume women are victims. And I don't think you are either. Which people are quick to assume this? Do you know any specific people in the real? What things do these people say or do, to convince you that they are quick to assume women are victims?
Phoebe Honeydale - Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:27:30 EST gKnEjE+9 No.532791 Reply

OP is a cousin fucker

god damn what a time to be alive, reading this
Shitting Guvingville - Sat, 14 Dec 2019 20:31:42 EST MHw4zt7g No.532802 Reply
name one (1) thing wrong with non-reproductive, consensual, casual of-age incest.
Simon Feddlemot - Sun, 15 Dec 2019 22:51:53 EST SaWKafFy No.532814 Reply
why do people get like this with their cousins I don't get it. I have a female cousin and she is objectively attractive to certain standards.. but she is a family member, she resembles my brother to some degree.. she looks like my fucking mom. It's just wrong in my mind, I would of course have enjoyable sex with any decently attractive person in existence.. but really don't think it could ever happen with a family member.
Alice Chimmerville - Mon, 16 Dec 2019 06:09:49 EST Tjgay6t1 No.532822 Reply
God bless OP, I good attitude, owning it, would hang with.
Shitting Turveyson - Mon, 16 Dec 2019 08:18:57 EST stc0rZMJ No.532823 Reply
I wanted to fuck my friend's little sister SO FUCKING HARD as a kid and she looked just like him. He used to best her up despite being physically much larger. I told their mom about it and she said to mind my own business.
JustSayYes - Fri, 03 Jan 2020 16:59:13 EST e2c59AL6 No.533087 Reply
"I'd fuck her again a hundred times at this point just for the sheer fuck of it and rubbing it in their face."

I fucked my half sister on accident, and I'm never gonna feel bad about it, fuck her again bro, keep going. Just don't date her, or get her pregnate.
Charlotte Smallway - Wed, 08 Jan 2020 18:01:42 EST w+0BOW1e No.533142 Reply
Is OP still alive? So what is the aftermath?
Also holy shit your entire family losing faith in you in one swoop. That's a fucking huge achievement, nowhere to go but up. It gets better OP, there is a statute of limitations to crippling shame. It will never completely fade but you'll be fine, not sure your old cousin will. Just set the right example, be chill and don't drop her.

Op don't tell me you cut contact in the time after that it would only make this worse.
Hannah Blythewill - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 01:13:34 EST 1VcUBcZx No.533145 Reply
>Not cutting contact, changing your name, getting plastic surgery and an all new social security card so you don't have to suffer the consequences and noone can remember you or your shame
people can never think laterally out of the box, fools
Lillian Snodway - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:32:37 EST K/wT37nK No.533159 Reply

this is really the relationship advice yall are getting here?
no wonder everyone has fucked up relationships.

enjoy staying on qq forever and ever you cousin fucking dorks.
Lillian Snodway - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:36:29 EST K/wT37nK No.533160 Reply
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For what it's worth, I work in psychiatry and have actually seen more than one case of someone coming in suicidal after fucking their cousin

Once once fucks their cousin, they cannot unfuck their cousin.

OP is just as much as an idiot as his partner for fucking her in the first place. what the fuck did you think was going to happen? Did you think that the taboo only existed just because of the genetically fucked up children? Of course not. This is a person you're connected to by blood that you'll probably have to affiliate with for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. so now you have this problem literally forever until you're dead. Good choices dummies.
Lillian Snodway - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:38:32 EST K/wT37nK No.533161 Reply
the whole literal fall out of OPs situation is EXACTLY WHY THE TABOO STILL EXISTS.

Please learn from OPs mistake and never fuck any of your family under any circumstances
Do not shit where you eat, or shit in your own blood, whatever.
Shit Brillerdale - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 14:51:29 EST mGoMpc3X No.533162 Reply
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What is the best case scenario of fucking your cousin? You get married and live happily ever after?

Best case of fucking your cousin is that you do it and neither of you give a fuck about it or each other and move on and pretend like it never happened. Do people like this exist? Yes. Are most people like this? Absolutely not.

It's like any other dating experience you have. Things get complicated and weird, especially when there's an added social shame glaze like incest, and especially when you are ATTACHED TO THIS PERSON FOR LIFE BY DEFAULT, WHETHER YOU FUCKED THEM OR NOT.

If you do decide to fuck them then hey, now you have to deal with that aspect of your relationship with them, forever and ever, and hope to God they don't tell anyone like OPs partner did. But usually people feel so shameful and disgusting that they feel like they NEED to tell someone because they are suffering so much emotionally about it.

OR! Maybe you tell them you want to stop fucking them, or dating them, or whatever, and then they tell your family out of spite. This is not just exclusive to women btw, men are just as fucking nuts and just as spiteful and petty. They instantly have blackmail on you for life after you do the deed.

The taboo is not within the sex itself, it's more within the fact that it will completely fuck up your social and family life for the rest of your life, as evidenced by this thread.
George Drozzlekot - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 16:40:14 EST zseydreD No.533168 Reply
The taboo doesnt fuck things up, being attached to your family forever whether you fuck them or not fucks things up.
Angus Chaffingway - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 17:00:41 EST QvqpXi0j No.533169 Reply
Guilt is bullshit. In the good old days you'd get a government marriage under an assumed name, and take passage to Van Dieman's land.

I demand explicit details or I will make up details to add in
Reuben Depperpud - Thu, 09 Jan 2020 17:56:42 EST jnas4L6T No.533171 Reply
ill the the first person to say i have a hot cousin and i am jealous
Albert Sangerbanks - Fri, 10 Jan 2020 00:02:54 EST oSsRyrxm No.533176 Reply
The only thing that will make it easier is to merry her.
Just make her pregnant, go to doctor and see if the child is normal, than everything will be fixed.
Once you merry, all your family members will be sceptical at first, but later will accept everything.
Cyril Bozzleshit - Fri, 10 Jan 2020 06:52:03 EST kHV5zZlZ No.533177 Reply
You have to cum inside of her pussy without condom.
Isabella Gushsut - Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:04:08 EST QvqpXi0j No.533181 Reply

not wearing the condom is implied. she's family, you have to treat her special. condoms are only for random strangers you fuck, not family members
Polly Sobberspear - Fri, 10 Jan 2020 20:41:29 EST Z01W+e94 No.533183 Reply
I mostly feel like this story was made up by a bright imagination.
Thomas Pangermat - Sat, 11 Jan 2020 17:09:18 EST KzmbNVlX No.533190 Reply
Naa people absolutely do, and as someone who is usually VERY skeptical I absolutely believe OP's posts to be genuine.
Hugh Brirringdit - Sat, 11 Jan 2020 21:20:27 EST 0TOLFHVM No.533197 Reply
I'm a woman who fucked my cousin who's also a woman.
I've told some people because I suspected they'd find it hot/interesting and I don't know or care whether she told anyone.

Drama queens are retarded, man. From my experience they come as often with dicks as they do with vajays although in different, perhaps gender based formats

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