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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

Kind of a dumb question.

Reply
- Wed, 18 Feb 2015 05:53:14 EST m296zImB No.55048
File: 1424256794604.jpg -(148947B / 145.46KB, 800x837) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Kind of a dumb question.
To live on another planet would the sun and the atmosphere be exactly like earth's? Or could we survive near a red dwarf if the planet was just at the right distance to maintain earthlike temperatures?
>>
Joseph Taylor Jr. - Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:23:09 EST ksAXy5yQ No.55049 Reply
>>55048
Question 1: We have other planets in this solar system that answer that question.
Question 1 revised with how I think you intended to ask "would it need to be": Not necessarily, we already have plans to live on Mars and we know the sun is farther away and the atmosphere is thin.

Question 2: It depends on the planet. Hypothetically if the planet had a strong enough magnetic field and a thick enough atmosphere, it should be at least partially habitable for humans if it was in the goldilocks zone. I doubt we'll be finding any second Earths any time soon even when we start exploring out of our own system so I don't think we'll be having any nude beaches on those planets. But who knows, maybe we'll get lucky.
>>
Thomas Gold - Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:03:04 EST 415JX8nG No.55051 Reply
The good thing about our sun is that red dwarfs are prone to proportionally large radiation bursts and a star of a higher mass would produce more UV radiation.
But at the same time, a strong magnetic field and the right atmospheric composition can negate some of those negative effects.
Atmospheric pressure is very important as well. You can't put a deep sea fish in a regular aquarium because they'll pop like a balloon that you filed up too much, the same things happens to us. But before the vacuum was that bad, you would just suffocate

So I guess for life as we know it, our star is the best star and our planet is the best planet. But life also evolved in the glare of this particular star in the chemical medium of our specific atmosphere, maybe there's a more efficient version of photosynthesis in the universe that never evolved here because our sun doesn't give off the right light. It's a hard line to judge between evolution and what is actually best for nurturing life because we only have one reference.
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Fred Whipple - Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:38:46 EST qk67H25/ No.55055 Reply
I had lots of dreams from past lives and the places where life existed surprised me. In a thick star cloud on a planet with not much light, no water like ours on it from memory, dusty deserted, life made from much denser matter than ours. I remember being a more advanced being than this one, better perception and had psy abilities, could move matter with my mind, we had a fairly large community and I even had an amazing education growing up, the real deal stuff wizards learn.
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Vera Rubiin - Sat, 21 Feb 2015 15:58:29 EST 9uY/b809 No.55057 Reply
1424552309913.gif -(383282B / 374.30KB, 200x183) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>55055

>I had lots of dreams from past lives

Give me a break, buddy.
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Tycho Brahe - Sun, 22 Feb 2015 09:27:20 EST 415JX8nG No.55058 Reply
>>55057
Do you think Hindus get pissed when when they see this stuff?
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Galileo Galilei - Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:46:09 EST DgOfYnAl No.55060 Reply
>>55058
I think a Hindu astronomer would be pissed somebody is trying to use their religion as scientific evidence
>>
Robert Wilson - Sat, 28 Feb 2015 01:37:59 EST qk67H25/ No.55078 Reply
what adds more to scientific reasoning than living it in from pasts memories. I seem to have more of an affirmative connection to remembering past stuff than most because I have recently spent a long period of time in a status space shell recalling my past stuff after the big bang...
>>
Annie Cannon - Sat, 28 Feb 2015 18:08:02 EST ksAXy5yQ No.55082 Reply
>>55078
No you spent a long time driving yourself insane so you could have delusions.
>>
Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin - Thu, 05 Mar 2015 04:19:54 EST 9+dq42/f No.55101 Reply
>>55100
this is a board driven by hard empirical evidence. in short, science.
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Arthur Eddington - Sun, 22 Mar 2015 18:58:11 EST CtuAeZIA No.55156 Reply
>>55101
Really? Got any empirical evidence of aliens? Because thats what one of the biggest threads here is about.
>>
Margaret Burbidge - Mon, 23 Mar 2015 11:18:49 EST YbjVjkZL No.55158 Reply
>>55156
Yeah, this board was at it's peak 2 years ago. Most of the threads are just about pseudoscientific bullshit now. Physics majors and whatnot used to post here.
>>
Vesto Slipher - Sun, 29 Mar 2015 17:20:18 EST iHN+hsAf No.55180 Reply
>>55158
Most of the academic boards suffered the same fate, entire site is shifting towards religious bullshit and tinfoil hattery. It's at the point where even most mods don't see it as a problem.
>>
Karl von Weizsacker - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 01:47:02 EST 9+dq42/f No.55182 Reply
>>55158
This board is named after the best science communicator in recent history. If people post dumb shit help them git learned. As long as we do this, regardless if physics and science dudes post here, the board will live up to its name.
>>
Thomas Henderson - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 13:37:06 EST CtuAeZIA No.55184 Reply
>>55180
I have never seen anything religious being posted on here, unless its some cunt atheist bitching about Christians.
>>
Clyde Tombaugh - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:40:28 EST In4F1sy1 No.55185 Reply
>>55184
He meant all that new-age, metaphysical bullshit that exists only as pure speculation.
I miss when we used to have discussions about different types of biochemistries and extraterrestrial cultures. Everything that's posted here now is all about the "greys" and other /tinfoil/ shit like that.
>>
Friedrich von Struve - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:09:51 EST ynJHSHjk No.55186 Reply
>>55182
Most of the tinfoliers Slipher is referring to aren't here to learn, they're here to preach. I've been here a long time and I have seen a lot of these threads here and elsewhere. Geocentrism, anti-relativity, Moon hoaxers, the electric universe, creationism and even a guy who claimed planets evolved from stars. All nonsense but people latch on to ideas like these and won't let them go, regardless of evidence you explain to them. If it doesn't fit in their world view it is wrong.

But as said this board is dying, we don't even get threads as interesting as these. I study astrophysics as a grad student but most of the threads on here now aren't really about science and when you try to steer it that way you get science. I stay because I remember the good times when this place had astrophotography, several physics students and lively debate.

People will find there way back but what this place needs is better threads and more comments.
>>
James van Allen - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 16:16:16 EST iHN+hsAf No.55187 Reply
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>>55184
/spooky/, /tinfoil/ and sometimes even /pss/ are used as spamming grounds for various faith-based crap

And yet people are only mad at the atheists, guess you hang out on circlejerk a lot?
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Caroline Herschel - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 20:02:36 EST CtuAeZIA No.55189 Reply
>>55185
>extraterrestrial cultures
>not speculation.
you people...
>>
Bernard Burke - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 22:02:48 EST iHN+hsAf No.55191 Reply
>>55189
I think the difference is admitting when you speculate
>>
Caroline Herschel - Mon, 30 Mar 2015 23:57:34 EST CtuAeZIA No.55192 Reply
>>55191
Are you sure both groups are not admitting that they are in fact speculating?
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Tycho Brahe - Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:42:02 EST YHjXylC8 No.55193 Reply
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>>55189
One tries to use known science and reconcile speculation with observations, whereas new age transcendentalism tends to be based on this one DMT trip I had and depend on misunderstandings of advanced concepts.
>>
Allan Sandage - Tue, 31 Mar 2015 22:48:22 EST CtuAeZIA No.55195 Reply
>>55193
Horse shit, we can't even prove that there is life out there. Also, really shitty attitude to have to anyone who is not atheist, which is becoming a tiresome trend here.
>>
Kip Thorne - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 01:24:48 EST 415JX8nG No.55196 Reply
>>55189
It happened once, it therefore happened twice.
The life on a planet is a reflection of the history (geologic, oceanic, atmospheric and then biologic) that planet and its neighborhood in space.
For example, the vast majority of mammals alive today are nocturnal small critters, and all mammals alive today evolved from similar creatures, a genetic bottleneck.
That bottleneck is from the millions of years our ancestors had to spend hiding from dinosaurs.
If dinosaurs never evolved we would have different bodies, as mammals would of occupied the dinosaur niches and that means different brains. Dinosaurs never would of evolved if the life before them wasn't just the way was. And life wouldn't be just the way it was and is if our sun was brighter, or if our ocean was deeper, or if meteors hit at different times.

The large scale mechanisms of events that lead to intelligent of life is the real mystery. Is intelligence a natural development of hierarchy in animals? What factors within a solar system and a planetary system help maintain a habitable world for billions of years?
>>
Tycho Brahe - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 06:51:11 EST YHjXylC8 No.55197 Reply
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>>55195
Ones religious beliefs or lack thereof is irrelevant, so long as they don't require you to do horrible things to math and science.
I don't mean to be a dick, but nothing good ever comes from "Everything's fractals!", "beings from other dimensions are communicating with me", "unidentified (therefore, full of aliens) flying objects", and three levels of misunderstanding of quantum phenomena.
>>
Jan Hendrik Oort - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 07:29:40 EST pjhpxsvC No.55198 Reply
>>55197
>but nothing good ever comes from "Everything's fractals!"

Hey now, fractals are really important in biology, and art. Drawing trees became so much easier when I noticed that trees are just fractals made of wood and leaves.
>>
Allan Sandage - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 14:51:04 EST CtuAeZIA No.55199 Reply
>>55197
Yeah, but that shit is just crazy talk, everyone puts all religious people under the same category while patting themselves on the back for being less ignorant then the other guy, thats what pisses me off about the whole anti-religious movement, its like reading a cracked article.
Its like Richard Dawkins has become the Tom Cruze of Atheists.

>>55196
>It happened once, it therefore happened twice.

No, that does not make any sense we can't even understand how big the universe is let alone even understand all the things that can happen to prevent live from existing on other planets.

Hell speculation is kind of worthless all evolutionary biology is based on one planet in the entire universe, if there is life out there that same science might not even apply. Its like people just assume that anything said by a scientist is universally correct.

Just gain some perspective people.
>>
Clyde Tombaugh - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 16:48:59 EST iHN+hsAf No.55201 Reply
1427921339775.jpg -(51173B / 49.97KB, 540x539) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>55195
>Also, really shitty attitude to have to anyone who is not atheist, which is becoming a tiresome trend here.
Dude you're projecting so hard it's throwing our planets orbit out of kilter, please. All he said was that the new agers tend to base their beliefs on what they were thinking while high as balls, which is 100% the case on this website.
>>
Allan Sandage - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 19:36:52 EST CtuAeZIA No.55202 Reply
>>55201
Eh, you might be right, I visit a lot of chan sites, it all kind of blurs together sometimes.
>>
Ejnar Hertzprung - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 20:51:07 EST 415JX8nG No.55203 Reply
>>55199
Dude it makes no fucking sense for life not to exist anywhere but earth. It's obviously a perfectly natural phenomenon which means it's governed by physical laws and a law by definition is repeatable.
Other life might have something besides DNA/RNA, but it would have to have some sort of mechanism that plays the same end role as those molecules. For something to be life, it must be able to reproduce itself and change over time to adapt to changing climates, so evolution will apply.
Evolution is really the second law of thermodynamics in the grand scheme of things.
The second law is:
When energy passes, as work, as heat, or with matter, into or out from a system, its internal energy changes in accord with the law of conservation of energy.

Evolution is the constant search to make energy easier to get in terms of energy expended to get that energy. That parameter sets everything in competition with each other and that means life evolves from the easiest sources of energy to more difficult, and that's exactly what we see.
Not only does life exist on other planets, I would bet money that on an analogous planet to earth, around a sun that was also the same, there would be green plants and everything that comes with that.
>>
Grote Reuber - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 21:04:46 EST iHN+hsAf No.55204 Reply
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>>55203
>there is no such thing as a first time for anything
That's retarded man.

That's like discovering a new species on an island and saying "Well if this species exists here..then it MUST exist on other islands!"
And the fact there are species unique to one island proves you wrong.

Given how big the universe is, it's a safe bet to say life exists SOMEWHERE. But you have zero evidence to support this.
>>
Ejnar Hertzprung - Wed, 01 Apr 2015 22:20:07 EST 415JX8nG No.55205 Reply
>>55204
That's not what I'm saying man, im saying you will find things that occupy the same niches.
Niches are what's important, the sun is free energy, eventually something will evolve to utilize it. Our plants are green because the sun burns at a particular temperature and emits more energy at certain wavelengths.
It is no accident plants are green, plants are green because it makes perfect sense considering our sun.
Why would a species not evolve to take advantage of a free energy source?


But that's all under the assumption of an earth analog around a sun like star like I said. The further from an earth/solar system phenotype it is, it will become relatively more exotic, but still would have to fall into this margin of error in order to become complex. That margin of error has only one example, but you could still eliminate some possibilities just from the rules of chemistry.
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Nicolaus Copernicus - Thu, 02 Apr 2015 01:06:55 EST YHjXylC8 No.55206 Reply
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>>55205
>plants are green because it makes perfect sense considering our sun
The entire earth doesn't have one specific chemical or electromagnetic environment.
There's several Chlorophyll proteins, specialized to different wavelengths and chemical environments, red-infrared for deep-sea autotrophes.

Others use EM from other sources; Fungi in the Chernobyl reactor use melanin to derive energy from gamma radiation. Some bacteria in Firmicutes forgo any photosynthetic pathway, living in environments with enough ionizing radiation to split water/kill off everything else.
>>
Gerard Kuiper - Thu, 02 Apr 2015 09:50:44 EST pjhpxsvC No.55207 Reply
>>55206
>Fungi in the Chernobyl reactor use melanin to derive energy from gamma radiation.

Are you telling me that the whole "animals living off radiation" from the new Godzilla film has some grain of truth?
>>
Ejnar Hertzprung - Thu, 02 Apr 2015 10:37:01 EST 415JX8nG No.55208 Reply
>>55206The entire earth doesn't have one specific chemical or electromagnetic environment.
There's several Chlorophyll proteins, specialized to different wavelengths and chemical environments, red-infrared for deep-sea autotrophes.

Others use EM from other sources; Fungi in the Chernobyl reactor use melanin to derive energy from gamma radiation. Some bacteria in Firmicutes forgo any photosynthetic pathway, living in environments with enough ionizing radiation to split water/kill off everything else.
>>
Ejnar Hertzprung - Thu, 02 Apr 2015 10:45:42 EST 415JX8nG No.55209 Reply
>>55208
Sorry about this post, on my tablet, sloppy control.

But I know EM on earth isn't the same all over, that's not the point I was making. I said plants are green not ALL plants are green. Anything with the same reasons to be green will be green, creatures on another planet with green "plants" with an ocean like ours, with the same chemistry, would have what ever example you throw out, it's the same damn energy source.
>>
Nicolaus Copernicus - Thu, 02 Apr 2015 11:00:15 EST YHjXylC8 No.55210 Reply
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>>55209
I wasn't disagreeing with you, just illustrating your point about organisms adapting to use the available energy can be observed on earth in places that don't get any energy from the sun, or receive a different spectrum.
>>
Edward Pickering - Mon, 13 Apr 2015 21:39:52 EST y7G/p//a No.55232 Reply
>>55203
You keep talking about evolution as though it has an end goal. But really it's not that straight forward.
>>
Riccardo Giacconi - Mon, 13 Apr 2015 22:35:38 EST jOF47H5F No.55233 Reply
>>55232
The end goal is universal supremacy and immortality.
>>
William de Sitter - Tue, 14 Apr 2015 00:32:05 EST XJHlYsmW No.55234 Reply
>>55233

No. Evolution is not conscious. Evolution is a process. Evolution doesn't necessarily make things "better", it makes things more "adapted" to their present circumstances.
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Kip Thorne - Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:11:17 EST CtuAeZIA No.55237 Reply
>>55233
Dude, I know this is a drug board, but come on here...
>>
Margaret Burbidge - Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:32:45 EST YHjXylC8 No.55238 Reply
>>55233
Are you the guy claiming solipsism, therefore the Egyptians had advanced understanding of the universe in /b/?
>>
Harlow Shapley - Wed, 15 Apr 2015 01:23:31 EST 415JX8nG No.55239 Reply
>>55232
I guess personally I do actually believe there is a formal point of life in the grand scheme, but that's sci fi stuff. I didn't realize it came out so much, but I still stand by it.
There must be natural rules to alien life, universal forms, just like the formation of mountains. If evolution is dictated by the environment, similar environments should create similar life. We are more related to horses than we are to deer, but similar habitats, similar place in the food chain, and similar food sources created similar animals, at least morphologically.

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