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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated April 10)
Becoming a multiplanet species, breaking free from nations. Ignore Report Reply
George Herbig - Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:52:15 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55648
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I want to start a discussion of becoming a multiplanet species. Weather that be on Mars, or one of the many Earth sized exo planets. for those let's assume a way to use the Alcubeirre equations has been invented To me moving out of our home planet is an inevitability. What I'm not so sure on is our penchant for clinging to imagined borders.

What is it going to take to break free from that? I could see Mars ending up being its own nationality so to speak. From a governance stand point I can see the practicallity, each planet will mostly be responsible for running it self. The alternative or events leading to that style would be akin to the Roman empire becoming too big to manage.

So yeah, general ideas, hopes, anticipation for how things will be. Discuss becoming a multiplanet species and the evolution of governance that will soon follow.
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Charles Bolton - Thu, 03 Sep 2015 02:45:36 EST ID:lHGvTKQL No.55652 Ignore Report Reply
>>55648
>What is it going to take to break free from that?

An independence war on Mars after a great exodus from Earth causes the nations of Earth to lose too much power as they lose control of Mars.

It'll play out similar to the US Independence War and for some of the same reasons too.
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Irwin Shapiro - Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:15:49 EST ID:415JX8nG No.55653 Ignore Report Reply
I can't really imagine what the state of politics will be by that time.
The earth is going to be a very populated place, and we will probably have to engineer the climate and most plants will be GMOd. Out of necessity or of global resource and climate management, a lot of cooperation between nations is going to be needed.
I think someday we will remove most of the ice from Antarctica, from climate change, mining fresh water, and we might purposely warm it just so that we have a brand new continent that we can settle and mine. I think treaties from this will serve as the precedent for treaties in outer space.
I think the earth itself is going to cease to be "the earth" and start resembling a giant spaceship itself, so the politics might actually be surprisingly similar. Habitats on mars are going to have to be managed as diligently as the earth, so how can politics exist is no one is allowed to fuck around and play games?
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James Mother Fucking Randi !lwriJ94kMg - Sat, 05 Sep 2015 22:42:30 EST ID:yA35CPLh No.55654 Ignore Report Reply
Essentially it's going to take either war or climate change.
War has always been the main driving force behind technology of all kinds.

Check out the anime called Planetees for a pretty realistic look at the world first becoming a multi planet species. It's a hard scifi look at our near future. The only unrealistic thing they ever show is people living on the moon in what appears to be normal gravity with out ever explaining it.
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Chushiro Hayashi - Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:48:58 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55662 Ignore Report Reply
>>55654
Planetees was awesome. They did have moon regular gravity though. there was the lunarian girl that was like 5 feet tall and only 12, plus the ninjas jumped off a huge as fuck building with nothing but sheets for parachutes and survived with little more that broken bones.

The second half of the show is where it really kicks into high gear.
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Caroline Herschel - Tue, 08 Sep 2015 03:39:59 EST ID:YHjXylC8 No.55663 Ignore Report Reply
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>>55662
Really? I wanted to like Planetes so much, because I liked GitS and a lot of hard sci-fi, and they did such a great job of creating a realistic world.
But every single character is just unlikable and annoying, the character interactions are just highschool drama in space.
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William Herschel - Wed, 09 Sep 2015 17:29:34 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55665 Ignore Report Reply
>>55663
Every one kind of grows the fuck up during the second half. Once the harsh realities of space and our place in the universe finally sink into Tanabes head.

Plus the overall conflict during that period shines a huge light on nationalities moving into the ocean of space, and the lesser countries being left behind.
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Bart Bok - Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:21:12 EST ID:vH3CaGpi No.55666 Ignore Report Reply
>>55648
Borders is a way to limit jurisdictional conflict and reduce confusion about applicable rulesets and tax responsibility.

By the time nations start to seriously colonize Mars, there'll be treaties to mark the borders of the colonies and thus the applicable laws governing such things as vehicle safety, measuring units in km/h or mile/h, mining rights, etc.

When nations merge into a bigger nation, external borders become internal borders. When a nation breakup into smaller nations, internal borders become external borders. There may be federation, union, and commonwealth during transitions. Britain still holds overseas territories in North America, and if for example Britain and Canada agree to transfer some territory in North America from one to the other, then border is adjusted. France also still holds overseas territories, and if for example again France and Canada agree to transfer some territory in North America from one to the other, then border is adjusted.

In the future, different Martian colonies may join together to form a confederation then gain autonomy and home rule to form dominion, then gain sovereignty when members of an empire become members of a commonwealth, then over time further territory and border are adjusted as result of economic integration.
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Henrietta Levitt - Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:03:54 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55667 Ignore Report Reply
>>55666
Then I hope to see a single governing body by the time we get out there. Or I hope the space agencies band together to form an alliance navy similar to what was described in mass effect. All the space agencies finally got over the nationalities fighting each other over petty shit and just left them behind while they colonized the system and explored.

To me, spreading out and exploring is the most important thing to accomplish. Drawing lines in the sand seems like a waste of time, even if it is to mark what laws apply where srsly hope the whole world adopts the metric system
If a single ruling body were to take hold and universally apply the laws every where what other reason is there to draw those lines other than to say I come from X village on Y continent of Z planet?
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Gerard Kuiper - Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:52:50 EST ID:sky71Ye7 No.55668 Ignore Report Reply
>>55667
Highly unlikely there will be any Federation when we move out into the void. When we start to colonize it will primarily be for economical reasons, so interest and strategical reasons will keep the nations apart.

However, I predict colonization of Mars will not happen out of economical exploitation. The resources we need are in abundance in the form of asteroids and moons. Mars is relatively big with an atmosphere, so moving resources or produced goods off world will not be cost-effective. Therefore I believe colonization of the planet will probably be done by scientists and interest groups engaged in developing a civilization there. This would be an interesting scenario, and the planet may actually be independent from the get-go. (Unless the powers want to tax the colonists ofc.)
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Margaret Burbidge - Fri, 11 Sep 2015 00:37:33 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55669 Ignore Report Reply
>>55668
interesting, there could even be corporate interests in the form of colonies that work to achieve goals in return for being supplied to live there. As for asteroids, yeah they are big and have abundant resources, but ultimately planets and moons are much better for return of investment, asteroids take a lot of fuel to catch, much less mine and return or bring the asteroid it self back.
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Grote Reuber - Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:26:24 EST ID:sky71Ye7 No.55670 Ignore Report Reply
>>55669
The part that takes the most fuel in space-travel is getting into orbit in the first place. This is what a lot of people fail to understand when thinking about planetary colonization.

Trying to move tons of resources and commodities into space is futile from an economical viewpoint. It's far easier and cheaper to produce it up there and then bring it down planet-side. If you catch an asteroid and tow it into orbit, you'll have readily available resources for a very long time, in zero-g which is also a plus. I imagine huge orbital refineries and factories exploiting this in the future. You don't have to worry about launch costs, possible launch failures, etc.
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William Huggins - Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:10:39 EST ID:UK+o5FNo No.55671 Ignore Report Reply
I could see planets ran by different corporations. Basically whoever provides the ride. It would be interesting to see what progress humans will make it a thousand years.
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Gerard Kuiper - Sat, 12 Sep 2015 01:17:29 EST ID:BF8zYeiD No.55672 Ignore Report Reply
>>55671
What would be the point? A corporation exists to make money. There's no profits in piling the resources it would take to own/run a planet that most of the human population would never visit. RIP Planet Starbucks.
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Antony Hewish - Mon, 14 Sep 2015 22:09:19 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55673 Ignore Report Reply
>>55672
Most likely it would be the larger industrial corporations. Not many of those exist with an interest in space, yet. Unless in the future a multicorp with industrial, exploration, and Scientific interests exists. It may end up being large enough to fund an employee colony. Though it will be results driven and may not be intended to include civies, perhaps family would be counted in rare cases.
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!qCv3kE3pMI - Wed, 16 Sep 2015 00:27:37 EST ID:M7NMNbPp No.55675 Ignore Report Reply
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gas vapor fed plants and printed meals, who wants to go there when being there is "there"?

p.s. nanana
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Daniel Kirkwood - Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:09:14 EST ID:P+fSJ1RL No.55676 Ignore Report Reply
>>55675
It sounds like a dim prospect. But with enough off hours with allowances for extra activities and maybe even EVAs for no O2 worlds. Could be fun, might be covered by shitty mega corps, but those involved will have to know that they signed up to head a new place to live. They get to forge a new planetary culture, even one day claim sovereignty. The galaxy is a large place and likely hard to govern.
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Bernard-Ferdinand Lyot - Mon, 28 Sep 2015 00:42:00 EST ID:AlxomEpB No.55698 Ignore Report Reply
>>55673
Might not be a corporation though. It could be ideological or some psudeo religious movement.


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