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Cut and dry, Black and White (-Holes)

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- Thu, 21 May 2015 17:47:06 EST KymFiCZg No.55338
File: 1432244826488.gif -(2682500B / 2.56MB, 350x195) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Cut and dry, Black and White (-Holes)
I'm a layperson scurrying across the floor of /sagan/, please don't annihilate me.

Is there any reason white holes would exist? From what I understand black holes just keep growing, gaining in mass and gravity magnitude in relation to their mass. Their ultra-compact density is what gives them their swag about the vacuum of space.

If white holes were real, then how would black holes continue to grow and increase their gravity? Debris, planets, stars and other space stuff 'slows' as it reaches the center of the hole as I understand it. Would that mean filling a water balloon with a tiny leak in it is a good analogy for what's theoretically happening?
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Tycho Brahe - Thu, 21 May 2015 18:44:28 EST eJc7PJV5 No.55342 Reply
Would you mind elaborating what a 'white hole' is?

The thing is, Black holes are spots/regions in the fabric of space-time where light and matter are pulled in massivly strong amounts to a central/spherical point. The only reason that the phenomenon occurs is if there is light/matter close enough for it to absorb. So any bit of matter or chemical reaction that releases light/matter around the black hole could be very loosely defined as 'white holes'. But this in itself would not make sense...brain hurts now...
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John Bahcall - Thu, 21 May 2015 20:14:56 EST YHjXylC8 No.55343 Reply
We're pretty sure they don't exist; they'd be the brightest things in the universe by far.
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Space Shimapanzee - Thu, 21 May 2015 23:16:25 EST KymFiCZg No.55347 Reply
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>>55342

From what I've gathered(citation needed), white holes are supposedly the opposite of black holes. Like a random point in the universe where stuff that got sucked into black holes gets jettisoned out like what happens in the space toilet-bag looking thing after take-out mongoloid barbeque.
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Arthur Eddington - Fri, 22 May 2015 12:45:29 EST eJc7PJV5 No.55350 Reply
>>55347
Ah... Then if that is the case, it should make sense. I remember reading about this back in grade school... basically it's the theory that if one were to hypothetically enter a blackhole, they would be 'ported' to an alternating sector of the universe/galaxy and exit through the white hole. The only issue is that the massive gravitational forces near the black hole (entry point) would be massive, and would crush the ship and it's crew before it travelled beyond the space-time horizon
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Henry Draper - Fri, 22 May 2015 14:38:52 EST 301QhKfM No.55351 Reply
1432319932351.jpg -(69302B / 67.68KB, 500x404) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>55350
yet another layman here, but i'm pretty sure they think that all the matter and stuff in a black hole doesn't wormhole away, but leaks out over time as Hawking radiation.
i think.
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Henry Draper - Fri, 22 May 2015 14:46:11 EST 301QhKfM No.55352 Reply
1432320371351.jpg -(153527B / 149.93KB, 530x600) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>55351
so like, instead of zipping away to another part of the universe and being unbelievably bright, energetic white holes (which we haven't really seen, despite all the black holes we're pretty sure we've found), the shit inside a black hole evaporates possibly into Hawking radiation, which we could maybe figure out if we whack protons together hard enough to create an observable black hole and then watch how it evaporates.
we're working on it
nb
>>
George Airy - Sat, 23 May 2015 01:59:06 EST BF8zYeiD No.55357 Reply
>>55347
A black hole is just an incredibly dense region of space, so massive that even light cannot escape it's gravitational pull from within a given distance from it. There's no reason to think that the stuff that falls into them goes anywhere special or attribute wormhole-ish properties to them. They're crushy death.
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John Bahcall - Sat, 30 May 2015 13:34:54 EST +riOIIIU No.55374 Reply
>>55357
As the third layman in the thread with a healthy space interest. I would dare say that if the black hole to white hole teleport is to work perhaps it's the intense gravitational forces that bind another point in space time and thus the matter and light pulled in gets ejected at the end of the worm hole type thing some where else in the universe.

If indeed this is how it works. I have heard of white holes in passing and this was essencially how they were presented.
>>
Harlow Shapley - Sat, 30 May 2015 21:44:10 EST 415JX8nG No.55375 Reply
Maybe the universe itself is a white hole.
Is the opposite of a holographic black hole horizon the opposite of the universe's holographic cosmic horizon?
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George Gamow - Sun, 31 May 2015 13:34:48 EST KCC23SOp No.55377 Reply
>>55376
I've always thought it would be neat if the Big Bang was a closed loop and everything that fell into a black hole in the universe got shuffled back to the beginning. Doesnt really have any basis in reality but it is a fun thought.
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Riccardo Giacconi - Sat, 06 Jun 2015 21:35:46 EST 9yNFTkYR No.55387 Reply
>>55374
There is no connection like that. Firstly it's not believed classical white holes exist, there was never any known mechanism which could create one. Secondly with the addition of hawking radiation white holes don't make any sense anymore. They were just the time inversion of a black hole, the time inversion of a black hole with hawking radiation is a black hole.

The idea that matter goes in one and comes out the other was a wacky proposal, again no mechanism was known which could actually create a wormhole like that.
>>
>>
Joseph-Louis Lagrange - Wed, 10 Jun 2015 04:55:48 EST +riOIIIU No.55393 Reply
>>55387
well it was a nice thought instead of having all consuming death holes.
>>
Heinrich Olbers - Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:49:22 EST KlwZpL5U No.55394 Reply
>>55393
Yeah, but the universe doesn't care about nice thoughts.
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Giuseppe Piazzi - Wed, 10 Jun 2015 15:07:28 EST 415JX8nG No.55396 Reply
>>55394
I don't think you can be so certain about what you're saying.
Maybe the particle that evaporates a black hole gets entangled with the holographic cosmic horizon in a way that makes it appear back at the first moment of the universe.
A white hole is something that nothing can enter, things can only leave. That seems kind of similar to how we will never observe the first moment of the big bang through any known means, even if neutrino or gravity astronomy is something that can be mastered, it will not reveal it, just get closer.

Of course this probably assumes everything eventually ends up inside a black hole, which doesn't seem realistic, but who knows. We still need to answer some seriously fundamental questions before you can completely discount anything.
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Vesto Slipher - Thu, 11 Jun 2015 21:54:59 EST jOF47H5F No.55398 Reply
>>55394
>the universe doesn't care about nice thoughts.

But Heinrich, you are the universe.
>>
Maximilian Wolf - Fri, 12 Jun 2015 21:47:19 EST XJHlYsmW No.55399 Reply
>>55398

But he isn't ALL the universe. You can only claim that some of the universe cares about nice thoughts.

Does the Sun care about nice thoughts?
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Joseph Lockyer - Sat, 13 Jun 2015 22:55:25 EST jOF47H5F No.55401 Reply
>>55399
>But he isn't ALL the universe.

All the universe exists in his mind.

>Does the Sun care about nice thoughts?

It depends on how nice. If his thoughts are nice enough to control the sun, then I would say they are nice thoughts indeed.
>>
Joseph Taylor Jr. - Sun, 14 Jun 2015 11:42:19 EST XJHlYsmW No.55405 Reply
>>55401
>All the universe exists in his mind.

Bullshit.

>It depends on how nice. If his thoughts are nice enough to control the sun, then I would say they are nice thoughts indeed.

There are no thoughts nice enough to control the sun, so this idea isn't useful.
>>
Allan Sandage - Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:50:50 EST jOF47H5F No.55433 Reply
>>55432
Controlling the sun is an audacious goal, but it's presumptuous to say it will always be of the realm of possibility... People thought we would never learn how to fly. Just sayin'.
>>
Harlow Shapley - Sun, 21 Jun 2015 22:19:27 EST XJHlYsmW No.55435 Reply
>>55433

I never said controlling the sun was impossible. Only that it's not possible for thoughts alone to control the sun, and furthermore being "nice thoughts" doesn't make them in any way more likely to affect the sun.

Telekinesis is not real.
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Johann Bode - Tue, 23 Jun 2015 00:03:18 EST jOF47H5F No.55440 Reply
>>55435
Our bodies are just tools. You don't see how thought is what enables us to control the sun?
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Isaac Newton - Tue, 23 Jun 2015 13:44:07 EST v2I6+0VG No.55442 Reply
I was going to offer an explanation for the topic of this thread. But now that it's been thoroughly derailed and no one cares anymore, there's really no point.

nb
>>
>>
Irwin Shapiro - Wed, 24 Jun 2015 03:43:49 EST uZ8bMtqg No.55445 Reply
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How can we conceive of and attempt to prove the existence of black holes, and still run around clucking like a bunch of ducks, going to war and arguing over politicians and spewing garbage into the ocean? It is so phenomenal, it puts a stop to all unworthy thought just to try and fathom what is really going on around us as we move around in this space.
>>
Fred Whipple - Tue, 30 Jun 2015 22:22:33 EST 415JX8nG No.55466 Reply
>>55445
Why does the wind blow? Everything is in a constant state of readjustment. People will always fight, it's part of what we do. As long as going to war gets you laid, human nature won't ever change or evolve differently.
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Antony Hewish - Sun, 05 Jul 2015 08:02:18 EST tolf8ons No.55472 Reply
>>55469
Idk,but I dont think its the same.that scenario isnt nothing becoming something, right? Its stuff from stuff. The black hole could only expand to that point by absorbing stuff(not to mention all that 'nothing' that caused the rupture(is that like a vacuum?)). So it might be a loop with no apparent exits or entrances.
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Rudolph Minkowski - Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:41:36 EST BF8zYeiD No.55829 Reply
>>55469
Hawking radiation, n1gger
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Johannes Kepler - Thu, 10 Dec 2015 18:06:27 EST BF8zYeiD No.55875 Reply
>>55871
From the wiki:
>In general relativity, a white hole is a hypothetical region of spacetime which cannot be entered from the outside, although matter and light can escape from it
So not quite.
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Karl Jansky - Wed, 16 Dec 2015 02:51:30 EST gRBEStbH No.55881 Reply
>>55396
"A white hole is something that nothing can enter, things can only leave."

Does that then mean that nothing can leave?
Maybe the white-hole is just a firewall. It could behave like the boundry between systems that have reached maximum entropy (BH's).
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Edwin Salpeter - Mon, 11 Jan 2016 20:16:03 EST Kw4IREJy No.55924 Reply
>>55875

Why can't it be entered?

I hate physics.

>"you can't I enter white hole"
>"why"
>"Eisenstein said so"
>"okay"
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Walter Baade - Mon, 11 Jan 2016 23:10:45 EST x7oDvr/y No.55925 Reply
>>55924
Overly simplified version: Einstine's math allows for the opposite side of gravity, repellent gravity. Instead of pushing down on the fabric of space time and making a 'dent' it is pushing up and making a 'hill', kinda. Just like the gravity of a blackhole is strong enough to keep light from escaping, the gravity of a whitehole is repellent enough that light cannot breach it.
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Joseph von Fraunhofer - Tue, 12 Jan 2016 07:22:46 EST fDZ3h+Vd No.55926 Reply
>>55925
Plus the fact that is one existed, the amount of energy it would be spewing out would basically make it unenterable, or even approachable.
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Paul Goldsmith - Wed, 13 Jan 2016 23:38:57 EST O0Ehlx70 No.55927 Reply
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>>55338
What if White Holes only exist for a fraction of a second and in the wake of their brief existence form entire universes in a multiverse.

tl;dr the Big Bang was, in fact, a White Hole and we are all (entropy, spacetime) that endlessly falling 'hill' (as opposed to a black hole's infinite depth) that will eventually tear and fizzle.

This old ass thread was very insightful. Time for another bowl.

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