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Floating colonies on Venus

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- Sun, 06 Dec 2015 16:45:02 EST vB+y87GU No.55850
File: 1449438302494.jpg -(34599B / 33.79KB, 556x334) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Floating colonies on Venus
What does /sagan/ think of this?
I think it's a pretty fucking sweet idea. I wonder what sort of materials you could use that are both light weight and durable enough for a floating Venusian colony. I had an idea that could help with the buoyancy of the thing: non essential parts of the structure (floors and walls) could be made out of brick like objects that are either vacuum hollow or filled with a gas like helium at very low pressure. They would be brick like objects because many could be punctured without jepordizing the integrity of the station. one could also vent waste heat out the bottom and sides to create a bit of thrust.
The only major problem would be in getting people and materials to and from the colony. Then again, I suspect by the time we're in a position to build something like this, navigating the haze of the Venusian atmosphere safely won't be much of a challenge.
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Chushiro Hayashi - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 16:54:08 EST IwAsVtyx No.55851 Reply
>>55850

>The only major problem would be in getting people and materials to and from the colony.

Or the clouds of sulfuric acid.
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Arthur Eddington - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 17:16:51 EST vB+y87GU No.55853 Reply
>>55851
Brah, floating around in a corrosive haze isn't the same as chucking a vial of acid on something. The damage would be slow and repairable. Obviously you'd want the city and any air/spacecraft to be coated in an inert material to help mitigate this problem.
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Bruon Rossi - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 20:39:01 EST IwAsVtyx No.55854 Reply
>>55853

Whats there to do there? Economic incentive is what motivates humans.
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Thomas Henderson - Sun, 06 Dec 2015 21:26:51 EST vB+y87GU No.55855 Reply
>>55854
Make it a self sustaining place with manufacturing and vertical agriculture.
Also, Tourism.
Also, if we get to the point where we're colonizing other planets, the desire to acquire surplus value will be much less than it is now.
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Karl Swarzchild - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 02:27:33 EST tQX5ylFX No.55856 Reply
>>55850
Just because its there doesn't mean we shoudl live there. Honestly most of our system is junk when it comes to places to live.
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Thomas Henderson - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 12:12:04 EST vB+y87GU No.55857 Reply
>>55856
>Just because its there doesn't mean we shoudl live there
Why not?
Shuffling lots of people off-world will be good for the environment and peoples' quality of life. Also, we won't have all our eggs in one basket.
>Honestly most of our system is junk when it comes to places to live.
Space isn't the most forgiving place. fuck it! let's build tons of space habitats and extraterrestrial colonies because we can. Once we start a dyson swarm and asteroid mining gets underway, scarcity will be pretty much eliminated and we can waste all sorts of resources on space follies.
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William Herschel - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:41:01 EST vH3CaGpi No.55858 Reply
>>55856
Not that long ago, most of our planet is junk when it comes to places to live like desert, tundra, and wetlands. Nevertheless, we end up farming tropical (warmwater) fish in enclosed tanks in hot dry desert, farming trees in greenhouse dome in wide open tundra, and farming ducks like chicken in watery wetlands. Humans adapt.
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William Herschel - Mon, 07 Dec 2015 16:44:07 EST vH3CaGpi No.55859 Reply
Typo: that should be "...farming ducks (like we do chicken) in..."
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Arthur Eddington - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 01:49:02 EST tQX5ylFX No.55860 Reply
>>55857
I'm not saying don't colonize. But our options are limited so really the best we should aspire to is low population bases with the goal of improving our space ships. Figure out long term off world living before dreaming of crazy hi tech super cities on venus. First stop the moon. perfect for space ship testing, close by, easy.
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Robert Dicke - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 12:14:45 EST vB+y87GU No.55861 Reply
>>55860
Well of course we need to develop proper space infrastructure first. As I said, we need to get asteroid mining underway and begin a Dyson swarm. Also mine the fuck out of the moon. Also, we should build Stanford torus type space habitats. Once we have a well established space infrastructure, building colonies in the Venusian atmosphere or on the Martian surface becomes much less costly and dangerous.
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Johannes Kepler - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 13:48:18 EST IwAsVtyx No.55863 Reply
1449600498230.jpg -(21715B / 21.21KB, 900x506) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>55855

>Make it a self sustaining place with manufacturing and vertical agriculture.
That's no an economic incentive, that's what you would need to do to live.
>Also, Tourism.
Space tourism is for billionaires, and there aren't many of those. And of the ones that exist, not many would want to go to one of the nastiest places in the solar system.
>Also, if we get to the point where we're colonizing other planets, the desire to acquire surplus value will be much less than it is now.
This is not one of the places we would be colonizing.
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Robert Dicke - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 14:27:28 EST vB+y87GU No.55864 Reply
>>55863
>That's no an economic incentive, that's what you would need to do to live.
What do you mean by 'economic incentive'?
Do you mean it in the sense of acquiring resources or energy for human use? Once we have a well established space infrastructure, this becomes irrelevant. When you have nearly limitless energy and raw materials on hand (and the technology and will to make use of them), virtually anything becomes possible.
in other words, in the post-scarcity space economy, we'll build shit like this just because we can
>Space tourism is for billionaires, and there aren't many of those.
You're really stuck in the mindset of the early 21st century.
>not many would want to go to one of the nastiest places in the solar system.
Are you saying you wouldn't make an excursion to the most brutal place in the solar system and be back in time for a dinner of vat grown filet mignon and aeroponic asparagus and a laser cooked baked potato if you could?
>This is not one of the places we would be colonizing.
Why not?

Maybe I should clarify for everyone: I'm not proposing this in the near term. I am well aware that attempting something like this would be imaginably expensive and extremely dangerous today. I'm saying that maybe 50-150 years from now (if we haven't destroyed ourselves) something like this could happen. It certainly requires a significant space based economy and some improved technology.
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Johannes Kepler - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:19:33 EST IwAsVtyx No.55865 Reply
>>55864

>When you have nearly limitless energy and raw materials on hand

World's larges caveat, I didn't know we were in the Star Track anything-can-happen universe. Yes, I meant resource extraction. Lets go get asteroids made of platinum and helium-3, not play pretend.
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Robert Dicke - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 15:57:33 EST vB+y87GU No.55866 Reply
>>55865
Well obviously we need proper space infrastructure before we go colonizing and building shit all over the place. However, once that is established, everything becomes possible. I can try to dig up some articles I read about things like a Dyson swarm or asteroid mining having huge upfront costs, but massive returns in terms of energy and raw materials.
If you just fold your arms and say "well we can't do it tomorrow, so let's not even speculate about it." I frankly have no interest in talking to you.
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Johannes Kepler - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 16:13:19 EST IwAsVtyx No.55867 Reply
>>55866

Humans go places and do things to get stuff. Not just to do it, those emotions are just used to motivate people. Every great explorer was after land, gold, slaves, riches. I want riches. The asteroid belt is where its at.

I wouldn't want to go to Venus, there isn't anything there. You can't land on the surface, no moons, no nothing, bbbbooring. Even in your super-future there will be shit-holes no one will want to go to. Look at the US state of North Dakota, a giant frozen field full of self-destructive Native Americans, up until the last 10 year or so, it was fucking empty because all that was there was grass and nothing. But then fracking happened and then there was an oil boom and then 100,000s of people looking to get rich, and most of those people are blue collar folks with nothing else going for them. The blue collars go loose limbs getting the riches to pipe back to cities to be profits for rich owner of industry.

This is exaclty happening now, SpaceX, ULA, Virgin Galactic.

Given our lives now, i know in 300 years there will be a miserable dick job of 'asteroid miner'. So you didn't go to college and you are a physically capable young person, get your ass to space and go get some stuff.

I'm not folding my arms, I like realistic sci-fi. In your universe, I want magic powers like the force and shit.
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Robert Dicke - Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:00:55 EST vB+y87GU No.55873 Reply
>>55867
>The asteroid belt is where its at.
Well obviously colonization of Mars and Venus and the construction of space habitats would take place within the context of a well established and rapidly expanding space economy. I don't have to tell you that there is an incredible abundance of resources between Mercury and suburban Jupiter. In the midst of taking advantage of this tremendous windfall, it only makes sense to put habitable places where we can. If for no other reason than as a way station and a refuge. (think a stop for fuel or something at a space station orbiting Venus on your way from Earth to Mercury or something)

>I wouldn't want to go to Venus, there isn't anything there. You can't land on the surface, no moons, no nothing, bbbbooring
The most brutal hellscape in the solar system is boring to you? I don't want to insult you or anything, but whaaa? I don't know how any place in our solar system could be considered boring (well, aside from the MASSIVE expanses of literally nothing, but that goes without saying)
>you can't land on the surface
With currently existing caveman tech it's not a very good idea.

>Given our lives now, i know in 300 years there will be a miserable dick job of 'asteroid miner'. So you didn't go to college and you are a physically capable young person, get your ass to space and go get some stuff.
Frankly neither of us can imagine what human societies will look like in three centuries. If neo-liberal capitalism is still the default system, I'm not sure we'll even be around in three hundred years. Anyway, asteroid mining will likely be almost entirely automated. It makes more sense to have a bunch of durable, easy to produce machines hacking up rocks in space, not a bunch of frail bloodsacks who can't function in an irradiated, freezing, vacuum.

> I like realistic sci-fi
Me too. I love Star Wars, but the lore of franchises like Star Trek and Mass Effect is so much more interesting BECAUSE so much of it is plausible.

>In your universe, I want magic powers like the force and shit.
I'm not operating within a magic universe. I'm talking about something that will become achievable within the context of a future space based economy. I see the point in your criticisms. There isn't a direct need for a Venusian colony when you could just have a few ring habitats orbiting the planet. Still, a floating colony could be useful for tourism and scientific research. And when you've got a massive economy and advanced technology, it's inevitable that some people will think "hey, lets do thing."

>>55868
Brah, the sun isn't a rare earth metal.
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