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Discord #Drugs Channel Now Open

Submarines of Titan

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- Sun, 28 Aug 2016 10:23:12 EST Y3T9nNnZ No.56335
File: 1472394192191.gif -(872884B / 852.43KB, 200x100) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Submarines of Titan
Check it. NASA wants to send a submarine to Titan to go look for critters there.

Please please let this happen.
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The Fool !oj3475yHBQ - Sun, 28 Aug 2016 17:10:49 EST rhwUV3nh No.56337 Reply
1472418649184.gif -(2216214B / 2.11MB, 255x187) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
DICKS EVERYWHERE
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Galileo Galilei - Mon, 29 Aug 2016 20:56:33 EST bs2Oznsk No.56339 Reply
>>56338

It's one of Saturn's moons. It has hydrocarbon seas and methane rain. Since it has surface oceans and weather, people wonder if there may be crazy life there that evolved to live in it.
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Tue, 30 Aug 2016 00:31:07 EST rszf0FN0 No.56340 Reply
>>56338
>>fuck is titan an ocean on mars or something
>>titan an ocean on mars
>>ocean on mars
I can't even
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Robert Dicke - Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:27:48 EST YHjXylC8 No.56341 Reply
1472581668594.jpg -(206669B / 201.83KB, 1426x1132) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>56339
I'm no xenobiologist, so I don't know, but it seems more likely there would be life in the subsurface water oceans, where we know life can survive on earth.

How big of a nuke would it take to breach 15 miles of ice? Maybe we could even observe macroscopic life from the ejecta.
If not, we could try again and drop a tethered sub in the hole.
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William de Sitter - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:05:47 EST Ah1ff32T No.56345 Reply
If there were two guys in a submarine on Titan and one of them killed the other with a rock would that be fucked up or what?
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:52:26 EST rszf0FN0 No.56346 Reply
>>56341
The size of warhead needed to actually breach a 15 mile ice sheet would approach the limits of the largest nukes we ever built, and would have devastating effects on the planetary environment, if it even managed to breach the ice (variations in density and temperature would cause the force to refract wildly) in short this falls under the category of not good things to try.
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Tycho Brahe - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:56:39 EST Y3T9nNnZ No.56348 Reply
>>56341

Not a nuke, but I have heard of an idea where you tip a borer with radioactive material and melt your way down. But you know... pressure. And then how do you get the signal back up? They are trying to catch ejecta. That's there current priority mission ( >>56318 ). It's currently illegal for them to make a plan for Europa.

But it's not unreasonable to look on Titan. Hydrocarbons are organic chemistry. It's cycling, it's moving... if we're to find "life, but not as we know it", it's a good place to look. It's not as likely as water, but it's lower hanging fruit right now than a giant borehole. So returning to Titan is a good next step after scooping up some Europa ejecta.
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The Fool !oj3475yHBQ - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 03:23:23 EST rhwUV3nh No.56349 Reply
fyi guys, Nasa is expecting not having to break through ice, as the data they have indicates the methane oceans are in a liquid state, though this is unconfirmed.

Fingers crossed for complex life-forms.
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Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:07:16 EST 3t/weoS/ No.56350 Reply
I seriously doubt we're gonna find anything there. At best some extremophile bacteria analogues. The polarity of water molecules was the defining reason for life on Earth. Methane can't take that role because chemistry, even if it functionally behaves like water on Titan.

I'd rather put my chips on Europa but even that is a far cry. However, if they do find anything, it could stand to really broaden the horizon of biology as a field.
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:41:41 EST rszf0FN0 No.56351 Reply
>>56350
Even finding some extremophile archae would be a tremendous victory. Not only would it be (near) proof of life independently originating from earth, which would have big repercussions in general society, but it would let us fine tune our parameters for the Drake equation if we see life developing twice in a single solar system.
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Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 18:13:14 EST 3t/weoS/ No.56352 Reply
>>56351

>but it would let us fine tune our parameters for the Drake equation if we see life developing twice in a single solar system.

Well two data points are better than one, but it's still a fair chance it's a freak accident and if so it would tell us nothing.

But as a biologist I'm much more interested in how such a lifeform would be structured. How does its genetics works, what's the inner working of its 'machinery', is it a lipid membrane cell or something completely different, shit like that.
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 19:36:23 EST rszf0FN0 No.56353 Reply
>>56352
Two data-points is tremendously greater than one, and is just one shy away from the key number to setting a pattern. Don't know why you have to downplay it's significance to other fields. Also the differences or similarities in it's basic biology wouldn't tell us much. If they're wildly different, we still wouldn't have enough info to establish a pattern about broad rules. If they're very similar, it may be that all life has similar basic patterns, but it could also just mean that life we find in our solar system emerged from the same panspermia event.
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Vesto Slipher - Wed, 31 Aug 2016 22:05:26 EST Y3T9nNnZ No.56354 Reply
1472695526174.jpg -(540836B / 528.16KB, 1024x1024) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>56349

Funny thing about water ice is that it floats because it's less dense. If the liquids on Titan freeze, they'd sink because it'd be denser. So yeah, so surface solids to break, probably pretty shallow though.

Pic is the north pole and where the seas are supposed to be. The Big one is called Kraken Mare.
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Cecelia Payne-Gaposchkin - Fri, 02 Sep 2016 18:18:30 EST 3t/weoS/ No.56356 Reply
>>56353

>Two data-points is tremendously greater than one, and is just one shy away from the key number to setting a pattern.

Not if you do actual science. If the solar system contains two independent origins of life, despite of all the things that gotta get together for life to arise just once, there's still a chance that it's just happenstance. The universe is stochastic, mate, someone gonna go away with the straight flush so to speak.

>Don't know why you have to downplay it's significance to other fields

Because I'm an inherent skeptic to alien life. I'm not denying that life exist on other worlds, after all all phenomenons of the universe is repeated. Froms the grandest galaxies to the lowly quartz crystal. Life is no different. It's the rate I believe is low af.
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Fritz Zwicky - Fri, 02 Sep 2016 22:11:58 EST rszf0FN0 No.56359 Reply
>>56356
But, if there is life elsewhere in our system, then doesn't that tell us something about the rate? (like, that's it's not low af?) I think anyone who tried to pass of the idea that two independent originations of life in our solar system are happenstance would just be denying the data. We already know from exoplanet surveys that planets are so much more likely than when we originally developed the Drake equation as to be nearly ubiquitous with stars, so the evidence at this point would suggest the universe is awash with life. I have always thought any sort of 'rare earth' hypothesis denies the copernican principle. And saying your very finely tuned argument about why we should only care about it your specific way is 'actual science' while any other interpretation is ignoring the universe as 'stochastic' is well just intellectual bullying imo. The odds of life originating only in Sol twice by two freak accidents seems to me to be about as likely as the origin of human consciousness being evolution from a Boltzmann brain, it stretches the concept of random chance past its limit. Thus we almost certainly would have to re-evaluate the Drake equation in light of first discovering independently originating life, and I can't see how you can describe that as anything other than significant and certainly falls in the purview of 'actual' empirical science.
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George Herbig - Sun, 04 Sep 2016 06:14:16 EST 3t/weoS/ No.56404 Reply
>>56359

>And saying your very finely tuned argument about why we should only care about it your specific way is 'actual science' while any other interpretation is ignoring the universe as 'stochastic' is well just intellectual bullying imo.

Uh ok. I didn't argue that we should look at the issue in my way only. I just pointed out that in science you need more than two data points to make solid predictions.

If you flip a coin twice and you get two heads, then flip it 10 times and get 7 heads, you can assume it's loaded in favor of heads and predict it's gonna give you more heads than tails no matter how often you flip it. However that assumption is completely wrong, the probability is still 50%. It just so happened that the few times you flipped the coin, you got a majority of heads. Had you flipped it 100 times you'd get closer to a 50/50 spread of results.

It's the same way with life. If our solar system contains two independent origins of life, we can assume all we want about the general incidence of life in the universe, but until we actually go to new systems we're still in the dark about how common it actually is.
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Kiyotsugu Hirayama - Sun, 04 Sep 2016 17:34:14 EST YHjXylC8 No.56405 Reply
>>56404
>If our solar system contains two independent origins of life
There's also a question of panspermia within solar systems.
Maybe life was sprayed all over the solar system from planets that cooled sooner, if life on Titan seems related to earth-life, then we'd assume the reason life formed on earth so soon after it cooled is that it had formed on mars/a moon a million years earlier.

If we assume it's that, then we don't get any data points for biogenesis.
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Daniel Kirkwood - Mon, 05 Sep 2016 02:52:24 EST Jqf9zBFl No.56406 Reply
1473058344124.jpg -(134366B / 131.22KB, 800x1150) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>56335
>SUBMARINES OF TITAN

DICKS. EVERYWHERE.
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Fred Whipple - Fri, 23 Sep 2016 13:26:47 EST 3t/weoS/ No.56463 Reply
This is a pop-sci article I know, but the work it's based on seem very interesting and def relevant to this thread.

http://ringrom.ga/2016/09/22/life-not-as-we-know-it-possible-on-saturns-moon-titan/

Essentially a team of chemical engineers and astronomers have theorized a template for an enclosed cell capable of thriving in liquid methane/ethane, rather than water as is the case for the lipid-based life on Earth. Pretty interesting read, and it offers insight into possible life on what we consider horribly cold worlds.
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Friedrich Bessel - Fri, 23 Sep 2016 15:52:57 EST 08CSyNx+ No.56468 Reply
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boy i shure do like critters

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