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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

dark matter & string theory

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- Sun, 24 Mar 2019 17:45:09 EST DGSw25sg No.57599
File: 1553463909536.png -(1111416B / 1.06MB, 891x882) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. dark matter & string theory
lets talk about it.
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Stephen Hawking - Sun, 24 Mar 2019 21:09:46 EST cMYUYpep No.57603 Reply
1553476186582.jpg -(36643B / 35.78KB, 693x668) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
string thread GO GO GO

This post was edited by Therm0ptic on 21-04-2019 13:01:01
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Giuseppe Piazzi - Mon, 25 Mar 2019 19:08:24 EST 457vC2+I No.57609 Reply
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>>57599
String theory is getting p long in the tooth and the evidence that it's not much more than a mathematical curiosity has been mounting. Have you guys heard about this E8 thing that purportedly integrates string theory and loop quantum gravity using this kooky 200+ vertex lattice? I feel like we're getting to the bottom of the barrel of the possible ways of torturing string theory into making sense.

For a long time MOND was my horse in the race but it seems it's dead now too. The good thing is we are definitely entering a phase where old theories that dominated physics discussion for decades are finally getting weeded out, which means the time is ripe for new ideas.

>>sting thread
yes?
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Margaret Burbidge - Mon, 25 Mar 2019 22:57:00 EST aGo2dCNY No.57611 Reply
>>57609
I saw Sting as MacHeath in the Threepenny Opera in the 1980s. As far as my memory of the event goes; space, time & gravity all seemed to behave normally in the theater. It seems likely that the 1st amendment wouldn't protect the practice of yelling "quantum paradox" or some such in a crowded opera house regardless if there was one or not. On the other hand, I have heard "what about observational effects" spoken quite loudly and out of turn in an auditorium before and it didn't even cause a panic with the lecturer most times.
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Friedrich von Struve - Tue, 26 Mar 2019 19:41:29 EST 457vC2+I No.57616 Reply
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>>57611
I saw Sting in the early 2000s in a shitty open air venue whose name I don't remember and got horribly lost for hours afterward in an unfamiliar city. Was sting theory folding me thru the 11th dimension? Just a castaway, an island lost at sea, oh?
If sting is some soft of loop quantum gravity portal to alternate realities tho, he probably isn't any more so than the rest of us.
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Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Sun, 21 Apr 2019 13:06:11 EST ht91M9a1 No.57655 Reply
>>57611
>>57616
How did you guys end up in this timeline? There is no Sting theory ITT.
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Thomas Henderson - Mon, 22 Apr 2019 11:58:12 EST 457vC2+I No.57656 Reply
>>57655
>>57603
>>This post was edited by Therm0ptic on 21-04-2019 13:01:01
Slick. Sting is real, you will not erase us. The spice mélange will preserve him, forever and ever, in '80s Brit new wave we trust, amen.
>>
Therm0ptic !cyBOrG7t12 - Mon, 22 Apr 2019 17:54:43 EST Td1/8Jcw No.57657 Reply
>>57656
>implying Sting exists in this timeline
Now I'm not a suppressive dictator, but if you continue to advocate this "truth" I will feed you to my circle of unstable Cymeks.
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Edward Pickering - Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:56:55 EST GcneW8jC No.57658 Reply
Dark matter doesn't exist, its Hubble expansion which causes galactic rotation curves to behave other than as expected by Issac Newton. Dark matter was a pet theory or thought experiment taken far too seriously, its never been observed. That so many people assume its real even thought there is no evidence of it reminds me that many people genuinely believe in ghosts and angels too.
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George Herbig - Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:33:22 EST yzfSDg8q No.57661 Reply
>>57658
>Dark matter doesn't exist, its Hubble expansion which causes galactic rotation curves to behave other than as expected

Then call it dark energy. Same difference. What's the driving force behind these strange pockets of universal expansion? Is it due to a wave of some sort sloshing around? It has to manifest itself in a field of force with waves and elementary particles, or physics is broken. We don't know what the force is, yet, so for now it's dark.

Sometimes believing in ghosts and angels is required for scientific advancement. Most of the world's greatest scientists and philosophers were devoutly religious. With each breakthrough discovery, they believed they had found another piece of God's blueprint for the world. Just because some of them may have violated the will of the Roman Catholic Church doesn't mean they weren't channeling a spiritual connection to a higher power when they made their discovery.
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Fritz Zwicky - Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:23:19 EST GcneW8jC No.57664 Reply
>>57661
>What's the driving force behind these strange pockets of universal expansion?
Just because you personally don't yet understand the origins of the measured expansion of space over time doesn't cast doubt about it for the rest of us. As you advance in your years of astronomy and physics study you'll eventually get the hang of all this, hopefully before you're done with grad school.
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Karl Swarzchild - Wed, 01 May 2019 17:04:03 EST 457vC2+I No.57665 Reply
>>57661
>>57664
Dark matter theory: a concept so confusing that even when people are defending it, other people misunderstand that as criticizing it.
>>you personally don't yet understand the origins of the measured expansion of space over time
So you personally understand what dark matter is then? Got that in grad school did you? Care to explain it for the rest of us and clear it all right up?
>>
Henry Russell - Sat, 04 May 2019 00:42:24 EST aGo2dCNY No.57666 Reply
>>57665
dark matter doesn't exist. ken freeman and his sycophants imagined it into existence by accident when he decided he needed a shell of gravity outside of the galaxy to explain rotation curves because he didn't understand how hubble expansion caused the increase in apparent rational velocity.
astronomy isn't a real science, it doesn't have repeatable experiments, all of the best gear is off limits to everyone but the high priests, its a religion which claims to be reality based, but isn't quite.
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Hannes Alven - Sat, 04 May 2019 05:17:32 EST izGRJ+VN No.57667 Reply
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It's a conspiracy of literally astronomical scope, amirte?

What you cranks often forget is that scientific theories, especially in astronomy all include confidence levels of how well they match the observations they are based on.
Also your ass is not repeatable. Astronomy is one of the most accessible fields out there.
https://astrobackyard.com/andromeda-galaxy/
>The image below was captured using a stock Canon 450D and Explore Scientific ED80 Telescope.
>>
Walter Baade - Sat, 04 May 2019 17:17:43 EST 457vC2+I No.57668 Reply
>>57667
>>theories, especially in astronomy all include confidence levels of how well they match the observations they are based on.
But DM/DE aren't based on observations, in the strict sense. Our ideas about them exist entirely in negative space, arising from the observation that everything else doesn't behave the way it ought to under our theory. I think if the astrophysical community could all stop pretending like that wasn't the case, much like >>57664, then the general public wouldn't be so inherently hostile to the idea. Like, it's severely overstating the case to say we understand anything at all about DM/DE, or can distinguish between if they are discrete things or forces or combinations things/forces, or simply a undetected flaw in our existing theory.
>>
Hannes Alven - Sat, 04 May 2019 18:04:20 EST izGRJ+VN No.57669 Reply
>>57668
Nah, cranks just latch on anything they think sounds like something that could be contested. Yeah the naming of Dark Matter & Dark Energy is unfortunate, but then we wouldn't be even have heard about it if it weren't for that. ( I doubt we have actual astronomers/astrophysicists/cosmologists in our midsts)

My point was you can probably come up with an experimental setup to verify the effects of dark matter with hobbyist equipment. (I'm not sure how, maybe you can measure the rotation rate of Andromeda by blocking out certain parts of the image and recording spectral differences)

Also DM/DE always was supposed to be something akin to placeholder for a piece of the puzzle rather than an actual thing. The thing is at this point it's pretty clear that there is an actual puzzle piece that is supposed to go there.
Cranks then come along and say "no the whole picture is wrong, here I drew a giraffe with stumpy legs instead of what you say is clearly an elephant"
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Carl Seyfert - Sat, 04 May 2019 20:12:51 EST GcneW8jC No.57670 Reply
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>>57667
Professional astronomers often enjoy joking about the broad range of acceptable number in their discipline.
>within an order of magnitude or two
is the commonly used "in joke" amongst the "real" "professional" astronomical "scientists"
essentially they grant themselves broad enough margin of error so that they're always right.
>you're a "good" guy
>take a "mulligan"
>"everyone" does it
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Allan Sandage - Sat, 04 May 2019 20:46:17 EST izGRJ+VN No.57671 Reply
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>>57670
> they grant themselves broad enough margin of error so that they're always right.
Here is why that is bullshit:
Measurements are prone to some varying degree of error and we have no control over that besides coming up with better metrics. That theories arrive at a high confidence value despite large measurement errors is a testament for them not against.

And _if_ discrepancies occur within the confidence value it actually is a big deal like for instance quite recently the Hubble constant:

http://sci.esa.int/planck/60504-measurements-of-the-hubble-constant/

This is a discrepancy of just under 10% and in this case the high confidence levels made everybody acknowledge that there is a pretty big hole in the theory.
>>
Allan Sandage - Sat, 04 May 2019 20:54:51 EST izGRJ+VN No.57672 Reply
>>57670
To complete my analogy:
Scientists ferociously debate which subspecies of the african elephant the puzzle shows while you kooks point to the few missing pieces and present a napkin drawing of a giraffe's head.
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William Fowler - Sun, 05 May 2019 03:22:12 EST tolFdsP+ No.57673 Reply
1557040932036.png -(209849B / 204.93KB, 470x315) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>57671
i don't see why you feel so entitled to dismiss the opinions of people who have legitimate academic credentials in the field when its clear that your understanding of things is pieces together from trippy youtube videos. your fanatical devotion to to your own point of view is so religioun-like that when presented with diverging points of view on a topic you fly into a rage and dismiss anything which contradicts your religions as "cooky".
educated people with thinking brains are able to entertain conflicting points of view without getting angry and resorting to name-calling.
you can't prove your point with an intellectual approach, why not. personal failing on your part or are you ready to admit that dark matter doesn't exist yet?
also if dark matter is real then how about epicycles? flat earth?
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Carl Seyfert - Sun, 05 May 2019 17:25:41 EST GcneW8jC No.57675 Reply
>>57674
nobody owes you anything, where do you get the ridiculous outsized sense of entitlement? why on earth would you get the idea that i should want to open myself up to social contact with you when you're already making an effort to be unpleasant when kept at arms length via the anonymous internet and a chain of VPNs & proxies? if you want to unthinkingly follow the conventional wisdom at all times because thats the socially safer choice then its not my place to stop you from clinging to your ignorance like its some sort of prize.
people with careers in academics put their livelihoods at risk when then publicly challenge the conventional wisdom, you expect someone to do that for you for free? what are you offering thats better that a lifetime of good pay for easy work and hanging around with college aged girls?
here is the best advice i can offer you. go to school, get bachelors degrees in physics, math and astronomy. once you understand all the necessary concepts involved in cosmology you'll have enough self-confidence in your own understanding that it won't get you all bent out of whack when someone disagrees with your beliefs.
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Allan Sandage - Sun, 05 May 2019 17:48:17 EST izGRJ+VN No.57677 Reply
Still waiting for you to post actual content related to the subject btw.
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George Airy - Mon, 06 May 2019 17:59:10 EST RXXyr7wh No.57678 Reply
>>57676
>cool story bro
If you can't contribute anything more that teenage petulance here there please either go back to /b/ or at least resist the urge to try and make yourself part of the discussion without adding to it.
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Alan Guth - Tue, 07 May 2019 00:51:11 EST VXVyTSl5 No.57679 Reply
>>57599
I think string theory is just an explanation of relativity and doing so puts our universe in an understandable gird pattern for easy mathematics. I think dark matter creates white holes which add matter to the universe while regular matter creates black holes and vice versa. I think expansion and heat death are real but so is the yet to be understood/discovered white hole.
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Fred Whipple - Tue, 07 May 2019 08:28:59 EST izGRJ+VN No.57684 Reply
>>57678
Did you miss my post where I did speculate how to verify the effect of dark matter on Andromeda using amateur equipment?
Granted that was just one sentence, and most of my posts dealt with rebuking your ramblings. So do I pull down the quality of this thread by responding to you?
I guess... guilty.

But how about it: Post some of your theories regarding the topic, what you think what is actually going on not what do think is wrong, post what you think is right.
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Edward Barnard - Sun, 09 Jun 2019 00:14:46 EST 2QPc0RKn No.57739 Reply
universe is full of particles, ,particles form into strings, strings form into chains, and chains hold everything together
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William Huggins - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:46:30 EST +G8ef2Iy No.57740 Reply
>>57739
what you even talking about? the closest thing is superstring theory in which case the strings themselves are what result in the particles, not the other way around. the particles are just a manifestation of said strings vibrating at particular resonate frequencies.
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Edward Barnard - Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:38:46 EST f/Tl+D5o No.57742 Reply
After meeting our god I asked about women and he sent me traveling outside to where their creational black crystal resides. I got to know them, then after some time, both collectives let me as a male, and a female from their's, to travel to the central black hole where people reside to learn and get to know everyone. The behavior from the opposite female was so vibrant I couldn't let her near me until her mind was less flippant, so I created a string between us she had to travel up before meeting me. It almost choked her assertive behavior until she understood where I was and we met up the right way.
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Johannes Kepler - Sun, 16 Jun 2019 13:11:48 EST NrYIi9kp No.57743 Reply
>>57742
I did this once but I got a urinary tract infection

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