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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 10)

Now Playing on /vg/tube -

What Lore would Winterhold (4th era) NOT know? Ignore Report Reply
Ammon Jerro - Mon, 13 May 2019 12:55:46 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.736856
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I want to role play a dedicated young Orc scholar(who lives for 2 things, battle and knowledge) whose only 2 reasons for traveling to Skyrim are for deep study at Winterhold(and to kill Ulfric too lol) to learn absolutely everything they can teach him there. I consider Master gro-Shub and Tolfdir to be the 2 smartest NPCs outside DLC. While I know a lot about TES Lore in real life, for this character I need to know what lore he would NOT be able to learn there.

So what kind of stuff would they not know in-game that I know in real life? For 1 example would they think that Talos (Tolfdir says by the nine a lot btw, not eight) is just Tiber Septim, or would they think Talos is 3 people(Zurin Arctus, Wulfharth, Tiber) sharing 1 oversoul?
Raphael Sorel - Tue, 14 May 2019 03:46:22 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.736909 Ignore Report Reply
Probably a lot of the historical stuff from previous games and things that only the PC would know. Things like:
  • The current Sheogorath is the hero of Kvatch (information only known to that person)
  • Lots of information that was lost due to the 200-year time gap between Morrowind/Oblivion and Skyrim (just think of all the books that aren't present in Skyrim that were in older games, and look at how many important NPC's died during the Oblivion Crisis who never got to tell their tales to others)
  • Of course they wouldn't be able to learn the Psijic Order stuff as the order specifically doesn't work with the Mages Guild or College of Winterhold
  • My guess is that what your character would know about Talos would be largely from the book that still exists in Skyrim, "The Arcturian Heresy"
  • If your character doesn't come from Skyrim then it's likely they don't know a lot of the specific history and culture of Skyrim
  • Your character probably would not know of the (as of the time of Skyrim) ancient school of Mysticism magic
Kain - Tue, 14 May 2019 09:55:33 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.736915 Ignore Report Reply
I love how in three sentences he didn't really say anything. The voice actor is wonderful too
Zerg - Tue, 14 May 2019 18:07:37 EST ID:SgXzLqYH No.736942 Ignore Report Reply

As an orc scholar, how do you justify the murder of high king ulfric?

Tell me it's not for the sake of an empire that ceased to exist when they ceded Hammerfall and Skyrim withdrew
Vyse - Tue, 14 May 2019 21:11:16 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.736948 Ignore Report Reply
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The 3rd and 4th Era Empires are the only governments that accept Orcs as equals.
Vyse - Tue, 14 May 2019 21:17:18 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.736949 Ignore Report Reply

If Ulfric wins, the Thalmor win the 2nd Great War because of a weakened Empire being cut off from its only other nation state, High Rock. That retard is basically assuring the extinction of men with his ego-driven rebellion. And the Thalmor probably despise Orcs and don't even view them as mer despite you needing their blood to open the lockbox for Mora's quest.
thread portfolio - Tue, 14 May 2019 21:20:22 EST ID:FgQLy1hU No.736950 Ignore Report Reply
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Witch of Izalith - Tue, 14 May 2019 23:11:23 EST ID:R1bL2/M8 No.736952 Ignore Report Reply
Can you just stop posting forever, thatd be swell
Yoshi - Wed, 15 May 2019 03:27:00 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.736964 Ignore Report Reply
To be fair, Imperials weren't a real race until TES3 either
Cole MacGrath - Wed, 15 May 2019 22:20:29 EST ID:SgXzLqYH No.737002 Ignore Report Reply
The fifth empire would accept orcs just as willingly, I'm thinking.

The Thalmor will definitely win a second war. The first ended prematurely. Hammerfall kept fighting after it was ceded, and they ground the elves to a halt. If cyrodil could through her soldiers back in, skyrim would follow. Against elves, no question. The Thalmor won so much more than they first expected, if they have time to put it to use they'll become too powerful. They need to be pressed immediately.

Instead, cyrodil sends her troops to attack skyrim? At the behest of the enemy?? It plays right into concordant hands. Why else would they outlaw worship of Talos?
Frogger - Thu, 16 May 2019 11:40:39 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737017 Ignore Report Reply
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Would they know about chim/dreamer theory? I say theory because I'm not convinced its true. And how about mantling?
Frogger - Thu, 16 May 2019 11:43:39 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737018 Ignore Report Reply
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Surely the college must know the lore of Vivec's technique of inserting his "spear" inside a tongue's mouth to silence their Thu'um.
Pinky - Thu, 16 May 2019 16:36:04 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737023 Ignore Report Reply
Maybe. The Tribunal Temple kinda fell apart as the three false gods either died or vanished. Shortly after that, the faith of the dunmer of Morrowind soon followed and most of them turned back to worshipping the Anticipations (now renamed to the Reclamations in the post-Tribunal world). Pretty much everyone who didn't leave mainland Vvardenfell died during the Red Year, so there likely aren't very many people around in the days of TES5 who both studied the sermons of Vivec so closely as to have gleaned knowledge about CHIM and who survived that long.
Dregs - Thu, 16 May 2019 16:39:55 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.737024 Ignore Report Reply
CHIM is proven to be true. Each player character has CHIM. That's why their actions shape history.

Basically CHIM is a gameplay explanation as to why you can access the command console, create new items in the dev kit, save the game and reverse time with save states. It's explained as unlocking the tower within the tower. YOU are the tower within the tower, the outer tower is your character. The tribunal gods had CHIM but it abandoned them (or in vivec's case he actually achieved full CHIM and realized that he is just an illusion) as they became complacent and bored with their unbeatable immortality, just like it's easy to get bored of the game if you cheat too heavily.
Frogger - Thu, 16 May 2019 18:42:29 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737039 Ignore Report Reply
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Its been awhile since I read the 36 Sermons of Vivec. How much detail does he go into about what CHIM actually is? Does he talk about the dreamer? Or Zero Summing? (I almost Zero Summed once)


If the player achieved CHIM he would be able to talk about it in conversations with NPCs. Especially in Winterhold and the mages guild. I guess its plausible the M'aiq The Liar has CHIM, but I'm still not convinced its real. I could be wrong. But thats one of the things that makes Elder Scrolls Lore so rich, you don't know what the truth is a lot. Almost nobody does. Like you often hear the Daedric Princes' realms of Oblivion are all infinite in size, but I'm not convinced.
George Stobbart - Thu, 16 May 2019 19:12:17 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737041 Ignore Report Reply
Cool perspective, hadn't thought of it that way
Trainer Red - Thu, 16 May 2019 20:36:42 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737045 Ignore Report Reply
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The fact that Barbas, Vile, and Sheo have such interesting voice actors shows these Daedra have a wicked sense of humor, as alien as they may be to us. After all they can make their voice sound anything, and they choose this.
Trainer Red - Thu, 16 May 2019 20:37:30 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737046 Ignore Report Reply
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OH SHIT! Wrong picture. Meant to post this one lol
Dregs - Thu, 16 May 2019 21:59:17 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.737051 Ignore Report Reply
Yes. He talks about how most people are dreamers. It's an explanation as to why most people in tamriel act like they're in a daze and just repeat the same phrases all the time. The woken ones are starting to achieve CHIM, and are the player characters. If one achieves CHIM, one would zero sum and cease to exist because then they realize that they are not. But in the case of a player character, the player says "no, I am" and becomes all powerful as a result. Because the NPCs do not think, they are not. Because you do think, you are.

The player has achieved CHIM and can talk about it with the NPCs if he wants, but he has to program the NPCs to be able to have that conversation. There's an important distinction between NPCs with CHIM and the player character. The NPCs that had CHIM became literal gods because they had access to the console or the creation kit. The sermons actually mention a point where vivec uses the console (not in those words, but it's mentioned) himself to alter reality. The whole 36 sermons of vivec are meant to explain that once the tribunal got access to the heart of lorkhan, they realized that they are in a virtual reality and remade it in their image. This is also why Cyrodil looks like a giant forest instead of it's original description, because the emperor had CHIM and changed the landscape before becoming Talos. Patrick Stewart KNEW he was going to die and decided to become a god instead.

CHIM is the explanation for design choices, paradoxes, and why everyone else is so dumb when the player character seems to have an easy time getting strong and rich.
Trainer Red - Fri, 17 May 2019 10:39:03 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737071 Ignore Report Reply
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Sotha Sil and Amalexia never achieved CHIM through the heart. Vivec actually claims he learned it for Molag Bal at some point after ascending to godhood. But I think he might be lying, or else why would his power be nearly depleted by the time of Elder Scrolls 3? (this does not prove or disprove CHIM exists however, I'm just not sure if Vivec achieved it)

Also Vivec speaks to the player as if he has CHIM and the player does not. Saying ""Hortator and Sharmat, one and one, eleven, an inelegant number. Which of the ones is the more important? Could you ever tell if they switched places? I can and that is why you will need me" in regards to the Enantiomorph. Though to be fair I don't know if he's talking about CHIM or the godhood granted by Lorkhan's Heart here.

If the player achieved CHIM, shouldn't he also be omniscient in addition to the other perks? Take the murders in Windhelm and Markarth, he should already know who the murderers are before investigating. If he was a RP with strong morals, he would want to immediately solve the case before the killer strikes again.

The player also can't see the future, yet the Psijic Monks in the Winterhold questline seem to be able to. (We don't know if they achieved CHIM or not). They said they were looking into your future and knew you would be successful in finding the staff of Magnus in Labyrinthian. Lore wise, Labyrinthian is supposed to be the most difficult dungeon in Skyrim, lore friendly mods make it a lot harder. So it should be the Dragonborn's greatest challenge outside slaying Alduin and Miraak. They looked into your future and saw you would succeed against impossible odds, something the player can not foresee. Also why did the player not know what the Eye of Magnus was if he achieved CHIM? He needed the Psijics to tell him what it is(vaguely).
Trainer Red - Fri, 17 May 2019 10:39:46 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737072 Ignore Report Reply
*FROM Molag Bal.
Dregs - Fri, 17 May 2019 14:00:32 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.737073 Ignore Report Reply
You're looking at it wrong. You CAN do all those things. You are the player. Your mind dictates what the player character does. Your will power gives the character omniscience. Your ability to save the game lets you look into the future. You DO know who committed the murders, or at least you can look it up on google. That's the power of CHIM. The realization that this is a game world, and the ability to suspend disbelief is CHIM. With your save and load function, and the internet, you make the player character omniscient and immortal. It's not a deep philosophy. It's a joke.

Sermon 4 describes Vivek using the heart of Lorkhan and seeing that the reality he exists in is not real. It describes him seeing the game developer "The Chancellor of Exactitude". He met quality control and explained his existence to them, and they smiled and laughed when they realized his existence is genius. Then they handed him the tools to change his world, and the ability to see the outcome of his changes. He was handed access to the creation kit, which he used but then decided to stop messing with because he realized the temptation would be too great, and that suffering is necessary for a balanced mind.

What do you think one and one means? Vivec broke the fourth wall. He's talking directly to the player, as well as the player's character. Why was he so weak despite achieving CHIM? Same reason you get bored and don't finish a playthrough when all your stats are at 100 by using the console. It's boring and easy when you cheat. So he stopped cheating but found there were no challenges left. As for vivec speaking like the player hasn't achieved CHIM, that's because although he has great knowledge he doesn't have the ability to see if the Nerevarine has achieved CHIM because vivec can't see beyond the world that he knows is an illusion. Some nerevarine characters have fresh players who don't know the game. Vivec doesn't know if you're aware of how to finish the plot, and Vivec knows that he is an essential NPC.

And yeah I think vivec is lying about when he achieved CHIM because I believe he achieved it while he was in the heart. But his CHIM is different than player character CHIM because although Vivec is aware that he is in an illusion, he's not able to do anything about it. Vivec looked into the illusion and said "No, I am" but lost his ability to think like an NPC at that point, which made it so that he didn't care if Molag Bal was going to take over Tamriel. Realizing that he lives in an illusion took away Vivec's desires.
Trainer Red - Fri, 17 May 2019 17:54:50 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737078 Ignore Report Reply
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I can see it as at least a viable role-play for some characters, but I think most players don't want to play with the backstory for their character to be that their character is virtually infallible in every way. Most people play RPGs because they want to grow and overcome limitations on their own. And in Elder Scrolls especially, to craft your own backstory. I do.

Theres also the theory that Hermaeus Mora makes Mundus go back in time a few minutes every time you die for a do-over so as to guide the hero's fate.

And another theory that Boethia is the reason you level up, as his sphere includes overcoming limitations and growing stronger, making it the only RPG with a reason for why you grow so fast, theirs possibly a super natural force behind it. Although my theory on level-ups is the reason you look at the constellations of stars when you level up to pick perks is because its a talent unique to all Dragonborns. Remember Uriel Septim in Elder Scrolls 4 said he read your fate by studying constellations, and he was a Dragonborn too, as evidenced by him being able to wear the Amulet of Kings.
Blanka - Fri, 17 May 2019 19:09:49 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737083 Ignore Report Reply
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This shit is deep man, I always knew Elder Scrolls lore was wacky but holy shit. Seeing you guys throw this shit back and forth is fascinating
Ermac - Fri, 17 May 2019 21:53:12 EST ID:CMAOPcJv No.737096 Ignore Report Reply
hermy just wants agents since he's not really the "go out to fuck with mortals" type. he steps in and scouts the skyrim hero because having near infinite knowledge lets him predict things and also his last employee wasn't working out anymore.

and applying fan theories to the damn level up screen is stretching it. it's the level up screen. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Cutman - Sat, 18 May 2019 06:17:22 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737107 Ignore Report Reply
Eh lots of things that have been evolving for 20 years are like this though.
Space Invader - Sat, 18 May 2019 13:53:45 EST ID:0z+RVgZ0 No.737116 Ignore Report Reply
You niggas talking about this like it's just fake videogame lore.

Shit man, Lorkhan is REAL, and Nirn exists.

I drank some mushroom tea about 7 years ago, and while I was on the shitter, Lorkhan pulled me through the ceiling lamp towards Mundus. He showed me Nirn, the planets, the moons, the realms of Oblivion... everything.

I asked him how the fuck he could show me all those things, since you know, he's dead.
He told me:
"Shut the fuck up."
Haohmaru - Sat, 18 May 2019 15:54:50 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737121 Ignore Report Reply
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The problem with the player being the dreamer is the dreamer is supposed to be a metaphor. There is no other world for him to "wake up" to. He's not "located" anywhere. He's not even really a being as you and I know the word in the literal sense. Its like when Malacath said "You mortals always take things far too literal" in regards to being eaten by Boethia and shat out, turning him into a Daedric Prince and turning his followers into Orcs. Its not meant to be taken literally.


Of all the theories in this thread, the constellations one is the most probable. Dragonborn are born with a talent to study the stars. They are not even technically stars actually. Stars(and the sun) in Elder Scrolls are 3-dimensional holes torn into the sky by Gods (The Magne-Ge) fleeing into Aetherius during creation who wanted nothing to do with Mundus or mortals. The starlight and sunlight are the source of all magic in the world. And constellations also play a huge role in determining one's fate depending on what birth sign they are born under, for example Tiber Septim was born under the sign of The Thief, which is why he betrayed his friends for more power so he can rule an Empire. He essentially stole the Empire because of his birth sign. Astrology is a real force in Elder Scrolls. It makes sense that the Skyrim Hero and Uriel Septim VII share a talent for studying the stars. They're both Dragonborn.

I doubt the level up screen in Elder Scrolls 6 will be constellations.
Sabrewulf - Sat, 18 May 2019 17:24:41 EST ID:XTkbRuzQ No.737124 Ignore Report Reply
You should take his advice about shutting the fuck up
Ken Masters - Sat, 18 May 2019 17:56:42 EST ID:RJ+z6ASz No.737126 Ignore Report Reply
Is astrology a real force in TES or are the superstitious residents of Tamriel who don't understand the physics behind their magic repeating the sort of mystical explanations people did about stars in our world before Galileo. The holes in the sky theory always struck me as in universe myth, its not a far leap from the Biblical Firmament where there was a heavenly ceiling that the stars were stuck onto like lanterns, which even Copernicus believed was what was around his heliocentric solar system.
Cutman - Sat, 18 May 2019 19:51:15 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737135 Ignore Report Reply
It's difficult to tell. In a world where magic and prophecy are actually real, I kinda feel like strange conceptions of the universe can be plausible too.
Bob the Killer Goldfish - Sat, 18 May 2019 20:09:49 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737136 Ignore Report Reply

In the old games you choose the star you're born under, and that gives your character special passives/actives

Thus astrology is a real force in TES
Paperboy - Sat, 18 May 2019 20:37:26 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737138 Ignore Report Reply
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Speaking of Galileo, Nirn (the planet the game takes place on) is the center of the universe (in the realm of Mundus of course) in Elder Scrolls, everything revolves around it. Nirn doesn't orbit the sun.
Riku - Sat, 18 May 2019 20:57:06 EST ID:Mz5DvYKJ No.737139 Ignore Report Reply
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Is the Morrowing/Skyrim/ES series worth getting into?
Paperboy - Sat, 18 May 2019 21:05:06 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737141 Ignore Report Reply
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I think in the 1st Era the High Elves had Sun-birds that took them to the stars to reach Aetherius through them, but that may be an in-universe myth. But given birthsigns having a measurable effect on people, Dragonborns scrying through the stars, prophets to predict things like this via magical clairvoyance(which is relatively common in Elder Scrolls), open communication between mortals and Daedra who may shed light on the subject, etc. It seems pretty likely that they are holes in the sky from Magne-Ge who fled Mundus during creation.

The stars/sun are the source of all magicka energy, so you'd think the mages would be aware of it if they study magic.
Bob the Killer Goldfish - Sat, 18 May 2019 21:14:45 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737142 Ignore Report Reply
Primordial Serpent Kingseeker Frampt - Sat, 18 May 2019 21:35:18 EST ID:XTkbRuzQ No.737143 Ignore Report Reply
Id say try oblivion first. Although Morrowind has a deep place in my heart, Oblivion is easier to get into. While Skyrims great, they removed/changed alot of things to make it very different experience than the earlier games.
Paperboy - Sat, 18 May 2019 21:35:57 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737144 Ignore Report Reply
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Getting into the lore but don't know where to start? Read the story of the 1st 2 games online, they haven't aged well enough to play today. Then download the morroblivion mod instead of playing vanilla Morrowind, it makes it a lot more playable(better combat, quest markers, etc). Then play Oblivion. Then Skyrim. Don't skip the DLC, especially in Oblivion. Read every ingame book you find. Browse the Imperial Library online. And use the TES lore sub on circlejerk. There's also a lore forum on the elder scrolls website, its the first thing to come up if you type "Elder Scrolls Lore Discussion" on google. But it may spoil game content if you read before you play, so thats up to you. I say do both at the same time though.

Honestly we should have an Elder Scrolls Lore board on 420chan. There's more than enough to discuss about it to warrant it.

I haven't played Elder Scrolls Online yet, so MAYBE play that before Morroblivion since it takes place chronologically before it. But I could be wrong, it may be like watching Star Wars for the 1st time starting with episode 1.
Paperboy - Sat, 18 May 2019 21:43:42 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737146 Ignore Report Reply
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If you play Skyrim, make sure you download the Interesting NPCs mod. It adds a lot to the lore. It adds a lot of people, 25+ followers(some with over thousand of lines of dialogue each), 15+ marriage options, and 50+ quests. You might want to use a guide for it if you're a completionist, as some of the quests are hard to find.
Ryu Hayabusa - Sun, 19 May 2019 02:33:06 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737152 Ignore Report Reply
We won't find out until TES6 is released whether or not the ESO lore is canon though. What if it's not official?
Ratchet - Sun, 19 May 2019 06:57:51 EST ID:cqXHNMKT No.737158 Ignore Report Reply

>I haven't played Elder Scrolls Online yet, so MAYBE play that before Morroblivion since it takes place chronologically before it. But I could be wrong, it may be like watching Star Wars for the 1st time starting with episode 1.

It'd be more like watching Enterprise or Discovery first over TOS or TNG.
Paperboy - Sun, 19 May 2019 15:35:37 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737166 Ignore Report Reply
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I doubt it but I wish it was non canon. The Nords and Dark Elves form an alliance after The Battle of Red Mountain which is lame, they were always supposed to be ancient arch enemies ever since that war. All so the game can have some shitty faction system. Even the Argonians are part of this "faction", they would never work with the Dark Elves because they've been enslaving them for millennia. They raped the lore for lame game mechanics.

I also hear Sithis is an actual being in ESO instead of the void itself. Hes supposed to represent total nothingness. What is Sithis? Sithis isn't. (although it could be a trickster entity like Mephala posing as Sithis to manipulate mortals perhaps)

They also treat Orcs with a high degree of equality even though it was centuries before the 3rd Era Empire. At that point in history Orcs were considered little more than vermin by civilized society, with rare exceptions such as the immortal Orc Librarian at the College of Winterhold.

Its also a lame repeat of what happened in Elder Scrolls 4. Molag Bal invades Tamriel. It steals away from the weight and originality of The Oblivion Crisis. I always liked that there was nothing like Methrunes Dagon's invasion in Tamrielic history, something unique. Thats the best they could do?

Not sure which of these things are the gayest. But I still plan on playing it of course, the lore may be the worst yet in the Elder Scrolls series but I still want to stay up to date on all the story.
Paperboy - Sun, 19 May 2019 17:10:06 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737169 Ignore Report Reply
How did arch-mage Shalidor die? I haven't played ESO yet, so maybe they cover it in that. Is he in it? You'd think he'd be skilled enough to not die in battle(did he even like/do battle?) or die of old age. So what happened to him? Isn't he on the same level of Master Neloth and the Psijics, who are immortal?
Bob the Killer Goldfish - Sun, 19 May 2019 17:27:49 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737170 Ignore Report Reply
He shows up in ESO, but I'm not gonna elaborate more to not spoil you

Also because I barely remember
Paperboy - Sun, 19 May 2019 17:33:51 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737171 Ignore Report Reply

Is the College of Winterhold in ESO? Or did they gay the fuck out of ESO?
Paperboy - Sun, 19 May 2019 18:11:19 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737172 Ignore Report Reply
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Replying to myself. I wish there was a conversation option with Master gro-Shub at the College of Winterhold to say "You're an Orc, did you love battle in your day?". There's always been a debate among Elder Scrolls Lore scholars (both in-game and IRL) as to whether the racial differences in TES are nature or nurture. I like to believe its nature. I think Orcs naturally thirst for blood and battle(though culture also plays a big part too). After they all they start with an ability in Skyrim called Berserker Rage, nulling their ability to feel pain and doubling their damage output(+100% damage resistance and +100% offense damage for 60 seconds). This would imply they have a naturally high aggressive nature, like the Krogan. But I've debated with TES lore experts who believe the difference between races is purely nurture, purely cultural. Discuss?
Pyramid Head - Mon, 20 May 2019 07:03:51 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737230 Ignore Report Reply
I'm kinda really hoping that they find some way to make the ESO lore non-canon.
Tetra - Mon, 20 May 2019 08:52:03 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737236 Ignore Report Reply
The game you are about to play is canon.
Zidane Tribal - Mon, 20 May 2019 10:02:08 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737241 Ignore Report Reply
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If I had to see this shit you have to too
Kim Kaphwan - Mon, 20 May 2019 10:10:25 EST ID:cvQwyq4W No.737244 Ignore Report Reply
that fucking image. i lold at work and everyone got up and looked at my way.
Marshall Law - Tue, 21 May 2019 12:50:29 EST ID:xH3Qk3i8 No.737333 Ignore Report Reply
Joke's on you, I just find it hilarious. Sorry about the trauma, though.
Matt Baker - Tue, 21 May 2019 18:06:36 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737347 Ignore Report Reply
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I think there is a supernatural force in Elder Scrolls that makes people "have to" worship Gods, maybe not even a conscious act on the God's part. Just a force of nature. Namira is the Goddess revulsion, essentially the Goddess of shit, so best way to worship her is to literally consume your own excrement. Yet lots of people do worship her. They are drawn to construct massive shrines dedicated to her in the wilds. Why? It seems like they can't control it to me.
Radical Rex - Tue, 21 May 2019 21:04:13 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737350 Ignore Report Reply
I think that in a game world where the gods are able to physically manifest themselves in various ways in the world and in which there are multiple known gods that I think it makes a lot more sense for most people to worship at least one of the gods.
Ignatio Mobius - Tue, 21 May 2019 22:05:19 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.737352 Ignore Report Reply
nothing goes into much detail on this but it is recognized that mundus is itself a realm floating in the void or cosmic aether or w/e, and other 'stars' visible from mundus are realms unto themselves. the aedra/divines/gods are associated with the 'stars' also i think, though they're generally explained as existing like behind everything, different than daedra who inhabit/represent their personal realms within existence in general.
Ignatio Mobius - Tue, 21 May 2019 22:28:42 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.737353 Ignore Report Reply
daedra aren't like the divines who just chill and enjoy unlimited power over reality behind the scenes. daedra have their personal realms which are basically extensions of their personal being, but their power is very limited in places outside their realm, hence they seek out mortals who can help them gain a foothold to extend their reach into mundus.

the namira people tend to be creepy fuckers in general, never heard of them eating shit, mostly they seek to be reviled by others. the skyrim ones ate dead people though. basically all daedra seek out their preferred flavor of mortal and reach out to them. namira just seeks out the cannibals and turd consumers and tells them they're awesome and btw if you start me a cult i'll give you a magic shibbledibble.
Gannondorf - Wed, 22 May 2019 12:35:18 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737370 Ignore Report Reply
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Its hardly worship if you ask for something in return.
Blanka - Fri, 24 May 2019 18:14:10 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737499 Ignore Report Reply
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>Guard: "So you can cast a few spells? Am I supposed to be impressed?"

>Dovahkiin: "How about I just make you go insane and attack the other guards real quick at night? I don't need you to be impressed when you're dead, guards lol"
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sat, 25 May 2019 07:57:06 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.737519 Ignore Report Reply
Thats what happens when the Devs remove the renown stat.
You can be the savior of the fucking EVERYTHING in Skyrim, master of every faction; and NPCs still talk to you like you are a scurvy covered mangy beggar right out of the filth of the gutter.

Here are just a sample from just one Guard faction in Morrowind, based on what they say to you when you first approach. The lower this list goes the lower your renown in the game is.

>"What words do you have for me, citizen?"
>"Greetings. I am at your service."
>"Praise Vivec!"
>"How may I help you citizen?"
>"What is it, citizen?"
>"Go on about your business."
>"Welcome, citizen. How may I be of assistance?"
>"Move along."
>"We're watching you. Scum."
>"Not now, outlander. Head on."
>"Let's not make this official, outlander. Move along."
>"Watch yourself. We'll have no trouble here."
>"Go. Now."
Leon Belmont - Sat, 25 May 2019 13:52:47 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737534 Ignore Report Reply
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They have some renown dialogue in Skyrim, especially if you slay Alduin. They just say that spells line because they're poorly educated and hate magic. I'm into TES Lore and basically not being able to wield magic in their world is like not being able to read in our world. The Nords are book burners basically. But some of them respect the craft:

>"You're the one that casts those illusions. Impressive."
>"Hail Summoner. Conjure me up a warm bed will you?"
>"Don't suppose you'd enchant my sword. Dull old blade can barely cut through butter."
>"I have a lot of respect for the restoration school. Skyrim can use more healers."
>"You're that one from the college . . Heard about you."

The summoner line is a bit weird, since summoning is a dark art that involves communing with the Daedra. But I guess they're not educated enough to know that. Or idk maybe some of them know but don't give a shit.

Still the guards needed way more dialogue. Maybe TES 6 (hammerfell I hope. very interesting lore there) will work on that issue.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sat, 25 May 2019 14:14:59 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.737535 Ignore Report Reply
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They just need something that over rides what ever goofy shit they are going to say.
Like if you've beaten the game he shouldn't act unimpressed with your magic, he should either just be in awe that the hero of the world stopped to chat or combine the two impulses and ask if your magic is what brought down Alduin.
Soap MacTavish - Sat, 25 May 2019 15:57:07 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737540 Ignore Report Reply
>maybe Bethesda will do something good
>current year + ?

Leon Belmont - Sat, 25 May 2019 17:46:59 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737542 Ignore Report Reply
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Yeah if you're a Nord especially they should be more respectful. If you're a High Elf they should still be bitchy towards you. Every race and gender should get its own branch of guard dialogue.

But there's a reason the Psijic monks chose you as Arch Mage of Skyrim, they must of wanted to improve the reputation of magic users in the north, despite their very strong non-interventionary policy. Many in the order would disagree with interfering to make you Arch Mage, and instead insist on them doing nothing. After all some of them were willing to let Ancano destroy the world.


The Fallout team is not the Elder Scrolls team. Do not lose hope. I didn't.
Leon Belmont - Sat, 25 May 2019 19:14:32 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737547 Ignore Report Reply
I love Ultimate Skyrim 4.0. Especially when I'm drunk and stoned.
Master Chief - Sat, 25 May 2019 19:16:32 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737548 Ignore Report Reply
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>The Fallout team is not the Elder Scrolls team. Do not lose hope. I didn't.

As long as Rodd "Redguard adventures" Howard is around you can bet your last dollar it's going to be a pile of ass. Until some one jams in AI motivated speech restricted only by NPC knowledge tags then we are at peak fully voice actored RPGs. Pic related and a reminder that you can not finish a game using hte same broken ass tools bethesda has and it is still considered a masterpiece to this day. Bethesda does not know how to pull this off and they never will.
Master Chief - Sat, 25 May 2019 19:17:46 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737549 Ignore Report Reply
I should also say that peak fulyl VA RPG was when NV dropped. We've gone downhill since.
Hanzo Hattori - Sat, 25 May 2019 21:16:20 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737554 Ignore Report Reply

see >>734162
Soma Cruz - Sat, 25 May 2019 21:58:38 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737558 Ignore Report Reply
That's probably not gonna change until it becomes profitable to make non-mass-market games again.
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 22:16:02 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737559 Ignore Report Reply
cut out the multi million dollar marketing team and you've got your profit.
Paul Phoenix - Sat, 25 May 2019 22:23:40 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.737560 Ignore Report Reply
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B-but we can't do that!
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 22:31:42 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737565 Ignore Report Reply
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oy vey what about my bonus?!
Alex Kidd - Sat, 25 May 2019 22:53:13 EST ID:bwaXU2WY No.737572 Ignore Report Reply
If you think the CEOs of all the AAA companies are jewish, then you've gone full /pol/tard
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 22:58:05 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737573 Ignore Report Reply
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I don't think that's what he is saying though. It's more a comment on the industries unwillingness to strip that branch from the process. Indeed they continue to throw a majority of funds to marketing for any given title. Not only that but they seem to have the authority to rip out the guts of any completed features so it can be monetized. Truly it is a cancer that is killing modern games. If that's pol tier, so be it, i just wanted to play vidya geams.
User was banned for this post
User was banned by: DrWorm for 7 days
Reason: /pol/shit on /vg/
Bowser - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:04:05 EST ID:1PRipo9X No.737576 Ignore Report Reply
The fact that big publishers continue to allocate huge amounts of their budgets to marketing to meet the needs of their shareholders by hoodwinking rubes instead of focusing on making good games is maybe not best critiqued through blatantly antisemitic memes that make even sympathetic people think you're an shithead. Just saying.
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:07:16 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737577 Ignore Report Reply
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doesn't make the point any less valid. the only additional effect is your butthurt.
Bowser - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:13:23 EST ID:1PRipo9X No.737579 Ignore Report Reply
Why are you so defensive, friend?
Lee Chaolan - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:14:22 EST ID:RJ+z6ASz No.737581 Ignore Report Reply
Why would you want that though
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:16:00 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737582 Ignore Report Reply
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Cammy - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:17:42 EST ID:FL0qkv/Z No.737584 Ignore Report Reply
What is it with the future /pol/tard refugess and being incapable of making anything other than pepe/wojak edits?
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:18:09 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737585 Ignore Report Reply
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I don't, it just happened. I didn't post the matrix jew though I am not blinded by butt hurt enough to distract from the topic of why games suck these days.
Bowser - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:26:09 EST ID:1PRipo9X No.737586 Ignore Report Reply
My bad, these are definitely substantive and well thought out posts that add to the discussion without distracting from the real issues
Off topic, I'm sure glad we have IDs here at 420chan
Sweet Tooth - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:31:57 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737588 Ignore Report Reply
all good man, the memes are as always just memes. Nothing is sacred. Especially the marketing team. However deep lore and well crafted worlds are a treasure. Gotta have more of that.
Darth Malak - Sat, 25 May 2019 23:53:56 EST ID:Mz5DvYKJ No.737592 Ignore Report Reply
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There is no such thing as good shitposting, and trying to defend by saying "memes lolrandum XD" is even worse
Sweet Tooth - Sun, 26 May 2019 00:35:26 EST ID:t+p/jCic No.737594 Ignore Report Reply
and when ND was burning all the board said the same thing I just said. Keep your moral outrage in check.
Joanna Dark - Sun, 26 May 2019 02:41:31 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737602 Ignore Report Reply
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>good shitposting
"funposting" would have a word with you
Rinoa Heartilly - Sun, 26 May 2019 03:45:03 EST ID:7DPE8mQi No.737607 Ignore Report Reply
What game is that? Looks kinda interesting.
Alex Mercer - Sun, 26 May 2019 04:04:01 EST ID:ff8RZLB1 No.737609 Ignore Report Reply
Cliff Empire
Joanna Dark - Sun, 26 May 2019 04:32:28 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737613 Ignore Report Reply
It's quite pretty (especially with the orthographic view). The balancing across islands idea is kind of cool as well. You have to get places to harmonize, focusing on a very small area of land and maximizing its use.

Seemed like it wasn't fully fleshed out, though. Like it might need a series of challenges, new cities each time, like that one city builder, uh... Islanders? Metropolis?


A little like a puzzle game. Cliff Empire is about half and half city builder and puzzle.
Rinoa Heartilly - Sun, 26 May 2019 11:35:49 EST ID:7DPE8mQi No.737630 Ignore Report Reply
Wtf is your problem Dr faggot that guy wasnt pol shit at all. Meanwhile the guy posting the Jew meme gets a free pass. You are the worst piece of shit and you're killing 420 Chan.
Cammy - Sun, 26 May 2019 12:08:08 EST ID:FL0qkv/Z No.737631 Ignore Report Reply
You're either him ban evading or you aren't paying any attention at all, he's definitely been posting plenty of /pol/ shit
Lee Chaolan - Sun, 26 May 2019 12:21:32 EST ID:RJ+z6ASz No.737632 Ignore Report Reply
It is him ban evading check out /420/ right now he's going on a righteous monologue
DrWorm !Jq.HCcHctg - Sun, 26 May 2019 14:15:05 EST ID:1p6W5bSO No.737634 Report Reply
he's only banned from this board but free to act like an idiot on the other boards
Kit Ballard - Sun, 26 May 2019 14:26:03 EST ID:0z+RVgZ0 No.737635 Ignore Report Reply
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Wow, who would have guessed that the the future stormfront circlejerk neonazi alt-right faggot immigrant isn't just a fucktarded virgin American cunt, but also retarded.

>Rodd "Redguard adventures" Howard

Todd Howard is directly, personally responsible for everything that made Morrowind so unique, beloved and creative.

HE was the lad that said "We're going balls-to-the-walls-crazy," "Fuck Tolkienian fantasy, we're going full on 1000ug LSD fantasy".
Joanna Dark - Sun, 26 May 2019 17:40:28 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737647 Ignore Report Reply
He's permed from vg? What happened to trying to correct? There are other units of time other than a day and infinity
Darth Malak - Sun, 26 May 2019 18:32:03 EST ID:Mz5DvYKJ No.737648 Ignore Report Reply
Ironically enough giving people week to monthlong bans is probably far better than permabans and nuking everything, since the faggots are just gonna hop into proxies or reset their IP somehow and continue shitting the place up depending on how inconvenienced they are whereas getting kicked for a week or two gives them some incentive to not act like raging dickheads

You know I just thought about this last night that if some alien species were ever able to decode our technology after we're gone that simple things like that game would provide valuable insight into how we perceived reality through our senses and possibly even how our wiring works neurologically/through the optic nerve for instance.

That one screencap which also works how Cities Skylines does shows what reality genuinely looks like to the average human being which shows you how there's this one focal area and this sort of fuzzy peripheral vision around it that no other medium really fully captures with such accuracy in the way we view things. Like a movie shot often kind of looks like how I'd imagine something akin to a insect's eye couldnot actually does, but could in a mammal maybe? capture photon information from a variety of different angles and resolve it into a flatter image, as oppose to how basically a predator's eyes work in binocular view capturing of three dimensional data to focus on a target area with a smaller peripheral field.

Just imagine what we could achieve with real imaginative computer tech in allowing you to play as different alien species, but sadly I think the only game that ever even attempted something like this was Alien vs Predator.
Cammy - Sun, 26 May 2019 18:39:15 EST ID:FL0qkv/Z No.737650 Ignore Report Reply
You can literally see how long the ban was for ITT, it's only 7 days.
Kirby - Sun, 26 May 2019 19:48:19 EST ID:5af7iik2 No.737651 Ignore Report Reply
What, and miss a chance to chastise a mod? Are you nuts?
Lich King - Sun, 26 May 2019 21:01:24 EST ID:Mz5DvYKJ No.737652 Ignore Report Reply
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What for? DrWorm literally did nothing wrong. Fuck that guy. If he wants to shitpost here like it's the future he can simply go back to the future instead. Why should we allow the hostile terraforming of our own board by this Scrin shitposter?
Nariko - Sun, 26 May 2019 21:54:19 EST ID:PRadn0xM No.737653 Ignore Report Reply
Was my sarcasm not strong enough?
Niko Bellic - Mon, 27 May 2019 03:00:37 EST ID:z+EA+96v No.737662 Ignore Report Reply
Meanwhile the matrix Jew post fresh off the 4 skin press is there still
Matt Baker - Mon, 27 May 2019 05:44:03 EST ID:4VPVikJ9 No.737672 Ignore Report Reply
He certainly okayed it, although I'm not sure how much of a hand he had in directly writing most of that crazy lore that we all know and love today.
Grayson Hunt - Mon, 27 May 2019 06:30:21 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737676 Ignore Report Reply
Then in that case I was wrong, and justice was well and appropriately served
Lich King - Mon, 27 May 2019 18:39:50 EST ID:Mz5DvYKJ No.737698 Ignore Report Reply
Let's just sandwich this shit and move onI don't know why he didn't get b& either maybe because he wasn't making a consistent shitpost spree like th eother guy? anyway vidya
Dregs - Tue, 28 May 2019 13:47:26 EST ID:vvta9jFf No.737740 Ignore Report Reply
Michael Kirkbride was the one who wrote most of the really cool, crazy stuff. I'm convinced that guy was doing a lot of drugs around the time he was working on morrowind.
Dregs - Tue, 28 May 2019 13:48:40 EST ID:vvta9jFf No.737741 Ignore Report Reply

for reference
Paperboy - Tue, 28 May 2019 21:08:35 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.737758 Ignore Report Reply
I think that they admitted that a lot of the lore came from when Kirkbride (and some other writers too?) locked themselves in a room for a whole weekend and did a ton of drugs together.
Ultros - Tue, 28 May 2019 21:12:37 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.737760 Ignore Report Reply
the legend is that kirkbride locked himself up with a bunch of liquor and a workstation and by the time he came back out into the light of day he had written most of the crazy lore material that wound up in morrowind.
Marc Kai - Tue, 28 May 2019 21:56:38 EST ID:FL0qkv/Z No.737762 Ignore Report Reply
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somewhat relevant
Paperboy - Wed, 29 May 2019 00:08:27 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.737766 Ignore Report Reply
Yeah he spends the rest of that Polygon article trying to sound as crazy as possible. I think it's what he's known for now, and he's trying to embrace it more and more.
Krystal - Wed, 29 May 2019 05:06:07 EST ID:93voU8ra No.737771 Ignore Report Reply
Paperboy - Wed, 29 May 2019 11:15:21 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.737788 Ignore Report Reply
Source: https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/27/18281082/elder-scrolls-morrowind-oral-history-bethesda
Nemesis - Wed, 29 May 2019 22:22:54 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.737845 Ignore Report Reply


A few Kirkbride posts
Strider Hiryu - Tue, 04 Jun 2019 11:15:04 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738152 Ignore Report Reply
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How skilled at magic do you need to be to gain entry to Winterhold in the lore? It can't be like it is ingame where any idiot who can cast any shitty level one spell gets to walk in the door. Its been one of the most prestigious magical institutions in Tamriel since the 1st Era.
M. Bison - Tue, 04 Jun 2019 13:29:35 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738157 Ignore Report Reply

i feel like having ANY skill with magic was a bit of a rarity so even casting a lvl 1 shitty spell set you apart from the average masses. like if you could even demonstrate the potential to command magic then you are eligible to enter and hone that skill. like the khajit follower you pick up (sorry im drunk and forget his name) talks about how he isnt so great with magic and he's working on it
Dregs - Tue, 04 Jun 2019 15:35:17 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.738164 Ignore Report Reply
Not skilled at all. Remember the first mages guild quest that teaches you the simple warding spell? That's because the point of the mages guild is to regulate magic and make it more safe to study. They'd rather have novice mages so they can teach them safe practices.
Miles Tails Prower - Tue, 04 Jun 2019 21:37:48 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738183 Ignore Report Reply
yeah. people in skyrim had superstitious fear of magic, or at least the native nords did. the college was taking anyone they could get who wasn't some anti-magic local trying to come in and start shit.

i think the person at the gate even explains it that way once you show you can actually do a magic.
Fawkes - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 15:33:05 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738202 Ignore Report Reply
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No J'zargo is constantly talking shit saying he's the best mage the college has ever seen, but he does say magic is not popular in his homeland however, so he thinks he has a lot to prove. All the followers there are solid in combat, so I assume they had a lot of experience with magic before signing up. Especially the Telvanni girl who can turn people into animals, not exactly something a novice mage can do. And she arrived very shortly before you did. Why would she sign up if the school only taught newbies?

And anyone can learn magic in Elder Scrolls, its not a rarity like in other fiction. Elves are better at it, and being born under a magic oriented birth-sign helps a lot too, but its not like "muggles" are a thing in TES. Even the bandits use magic in Skyrim.

It seems more like a research institution than a school anyway. I'd imagine you'd have to be at least proficient in all 5 schools of magic to walk in the door.


Onmund is the only Nord at the college, but the game has endless Nord enemies in dungeons and in the wild that use magic in combat. I always thought they were not skilled enough to be allowed to study at Winterhold.
Haggar - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 19:15:28 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738212 Ignore Report Reply

ok time for some real talk. did the mages at winterhold cause that cliff to collapse?
Crono - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 19:54:12 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.738218 Ignore Report Reply
A few people have speculated that it was a latent worldly result of the eruption of Red Mountain during the Oblivion Crisis. Kind of like an earthquake aftershock.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 20:00:48 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.738221 Ignore Report Reply
The Thalmor mages
Eddie Riggs - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 20:02:56 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738222 Ignore Report Reply

that conveniently wrecked the nearby village of hostile nordic barbarians, left the college with an extremely secure and defensible narrow walkway, and just by coincidence did no structural damage to the college whatsoever despite it being architecturally anchored to the cliff side
Gravelord Nito - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 20:56:13 EST ID:bPJlM8El No.738224 Ignore Report Reply
It's CHIM man ain't gotta explain shit
Dante - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:55:54 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.738227 Ignore Report Reply
So the game also purports that the mages of the college were able to magically protect the college, but not the rest of the city.
Eddie Riggs - Wed, 05 Jun 2019 22:47:02 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738229 Ignore Report Reply

sounds like bullshit to me
Soma Cruz - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 01:43:34 EST ID:NgthkTmv No.738230 Ignore Report Reply
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That’s clearly a Wyvern...
Dregs - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 08:14:21 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.738241 Ignore Report Reply

J'zargo is a lying, egotistical khajit who is proven to be a very weak learner by the fact that he needs you to do anything of note for him. His quests end up with him admitting that him being the best mage is really the best mage where he's from, which means nothing because where he's from there are no other mages.

Casting a fire of some sort is the most basic skill that every mage has in every ES game from the very start, so being okay at combat is nothing. Being able to fully control magic is the sign of a truly powerful mage.

The telvanni girl was a TELVANNI. They're a group of mages that only produce the finest sorcerers because the ones that aren't good enough just die. Most of their senior members are effectively immortal. Anyone who can actually openly call themselves telvanni is already well past what a traditional mages guild would teach. She was a spy, by the way. The telvanni don't like the mages guild much and want to keep tabs on their activities. It's the only reason she'd join a place that teaches you to restrain magic rather than let it go so you can see what happens. You know...for science.

Remember the mages guild grandmaster in the beginning treating everyone as beginners? That's because the college prefers novice mages who can be taught restraint before they go ahead and summon Velehk Sain by accident again. At it's heart the college is a research institution, but most people need to learn the ropes in order to get to the point where they're allowed to start their own projects.

Nords aren't necessarily unskilled at magic. They just shun it mostly. There's plenty of nord magicka users in all the ES titles. But there's way more berserkers. The lore says that other than stormcallers, nords rarely use magic. Probably because Alduin came and gave the dragon priests magic powers that helped them rule over people. That's why they have the whole burn the witch mentality as far as I can tell.
Eddie Riggs - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 12:00:38 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738253 Ignore Report Reply

>a lying, egotistical khajit

so, a khajit
Duke Nukem - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 12:17:42 EST ID:tkHjqvjA No.738254 Ignore Report Reply
>khajiit is innocent, khajiit does not lie, for the right coin.
Samanosuke Akechi - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 14:51:44 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738258 Ignore Report Reply
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This is one of the many things that makes Elder Scrolls Lore rich, the answer is always up for debate and there's room for tons of theories everywhere.


In an early draft of the college questline, you go back in time and (accidentally?) cause the collapse yourself. I think they didn't go that route because they wanted to keep it a mystery.

I don't think all the collective mages at the college combined would even be powerful enough to cause such a catastrophe. And even if they could, why would all of them want to work together to do such a horrible thing? It would just be bad press for their institution with nothing to gain. Maybe if some of them set up a shrine to Methrunes Dagon, whose sphere includes natural disasters (among other things), and summoned his power in return for the gift Daedric magics. Thats one theory. Dangerous research is a persistent problem at the college.

I don't know when the Augur of Dunlain changed into "something else", Tolfdir says it was before his time(and I get the feeling Tolfdir is a lot older than he looks. centuries maybe), but perhaps his metamorphosis into his 2nd form caused the disaster. Doubtful though, but what adds weight to the theory is Arch-mage Savos(and others) get pretty pissed off when you even ask about the Augur. Really I'm surprised the game doesn't let you ask the Augur himself about the collapse, he seems to be extremely knowledgeable.

One theory is that Malyn Varen caused it after Azura drove him to insanity for experimenting on her fabled Daedric Artifact, Azura's Star. Being the divine bitch she is, she tormented him. The artifact slowly drove Malyn insane, causing him to hear voices and see people that were not there, and eventually murder one of his students(seems more like Sheogorath's sphere but whatever). But I don't think he was powerful enough to cause such a powerful catastrophe. And also it doesn't say what year this all took place in, Nelacar just says "it all happened some time ago". Though he is a High Elf, so his lifespan is long enough that he was possibly around for The Great Collapse.


The Great Collapse happened in the 5th year of the 4th Era. That places the eruption of Red Mountain 117 years before the Great Collapse. It seems like a poorly crafted cover story by the Winterhold mages.


It happened 50 years before The Great War, when the Thalmor were still consolidating power probably. What would they have to gain by sending a HUGE party of mages to the other side of the known world to destroy a random human city? Maybe to breed further hatred of the Dark Elves, sure, they left the city afterwards to escape the even further increased prejudice from the Nords. High Elves hate Dark Elves for worshiping 3 Daedric Princes as the cornerstone of their religion. Or maybe they could of done it to make Skyrim shun magic so they'd be easier to conquer give or take a century later, High Elves do live for hundreds of years so they play the long game. Still, seems like an iffy theory. But possible.


Tolfdir has a line about the protective enchantments in place since ancient times are what preserved the college. They were placed on the college but not the city itself. But some of the violently ignorant Nords refused to accept that as an answer.
Samanosuke Akechi - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 15:12:25 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738259 Ignore Report Reply
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I don't think she was a spy. Why would the Telvanni elite care about the (by comparison) weaklings at Winterhold, which Master Neloth describes as a joke of a school falling into the Sea of Ghosts? He said the former arch-mage was not even skilled enough to be his apprentice, which is true. And all he uses his apprentices for are highly expendable test subjects, so apparently Savos Aren isn't even skilled enough for THAT.

She seemed like a young introverted girl trying to run away from her family's high expectations. She seems to hate talking about Morrowind culture. She even says she used slay undead in ancestral burial tombs for fun if you talk to her at Saarthal, something extremely taboo in Morrowind. I don't think she cares much for politics.

Also, she's a marriage option. You don't think she'd reveal her true intentions at the college to someone she fell in love with?
Samanosuke Akechi - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 15:27:59 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738260 Ignore Report Reply
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I don't think the Telvanni elite need people to spy for them. Master Neloth automatically knew you were the one who recovered the Staff of Magnus, and was impressed. Nobody told him, he just instantly knew it upon meeting you, he's completely isolated from the rest of the known world. You can even go to him immediately after recovering the staff before the news could reach him. And he still knows even if Brelyna is dead. Its like a divine 6th sense.

They use their powerful scrying magic to spy on the rest of the world from their mushroom towers. Similar to how the Psijic monks were "spying" on the Dragonborn from thousands of miles away from the mysterious island of Artaeum during the college questline. The Telvanni are roughly on the same level as the Psijics. They don't need spies.
Samanosuke Akechi - Thu, 06 Jun 2019 17:39:31 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738265 Ignore Report Reply
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Found this interesting post on the circlejerk Elder Scrolls Lore sub:

Anu is and isn't the Godhead. This is because there are two of him walking around.

The first is the one in the story where Anu, Padomae, and Nirn are all independent beings. That isn't the world we play in. Their world got royally screwed up due to Padomae attacking Nirn as vengence for her choosing Anu over him, and Anu went to sulk inside their Sun. He fell asleep, and went from being CHIM to being Amaranth. That Anu became the Godhead of our world.

However, he didn't dream of anything new at first. Instead he dreamed of himself and his brother as being infinite, and partially coexistent, planes. The place where they lined up in the dream became Aurbis, and they began to create their Souls within the Aurbis so that they could know themselves and one-another.

The new Anu created his first soul, or Gradient, Anuiel. The new Padomae created his first soul as well, Sithis. Anuiel and Sithis are opposed concepts, as are Anu and Padomae. Anuiel and Sithis took after their full selves, and began to subdivide themselves.

DIGRESSION: Yes, it's that Sithis. The one the Dark Brotherhood worships. It's the essence of Nothingness, while Anuiel is the essence of Substance. The interplay between the two allows for the world to exist by having Substance concentrated in points within the Nothingness. Without Sithis, the world would be a homogenous smudge. Without Anuiel, there would be nothing but the Void.

Anyway. Those two Souls decided that a single layer of gradiency isn't quite enough. So they further subdivided themselves. Anuiel created several souls, although there are only really Eight or Nine that we know a lot about: The Divines and Magnus.

Auri-El was the first of Anuiel's Souls to be birthed, and was the first part of the Aka-Tusk Oversoul to come into existence. He helped Sithis create his as well, by setting limits to work within and giving him a reference point.

Sithis created many Souls as well. We know at least Seventeen of them very well: The Daedric Princes and Lorkahan.

Anyway, everything that happened after that is a bit less relevant. But the basic gist of this is that Anu the Godhead and Anu the Stasis are not the same being. Anu the Godhead created Anu the Stasis and Padomae the Change.

Dancing on top of Adamantine Tower was sort-of the key to pulling off the Mantling. I'm not certain if it was even intentionally aimed at the Godhead, honestly. I'm willing to write that off as being accidental, and a side-effect of the ritual they were using.

Anyway, when the Mantled the Godhead they became a part of the Godhead. The end result wasn't replacing the Dreamer, it was... well it's sort of a sister-concept to CHIM. Instead of a piece of the Dream realizing that it's a Dream and deciding that they're important anyway, several dozen pieces of the Dream became a part of the Dreamer.

Once the Selectives became a part of the Godhead, they were able to manually control the Mythopic Forces that influence the Aedra. However there's a bit of an issue with what they did, at least from where I'm standing.

They didn't have the protection of CHIM when they Mantled into the Godhead, and so they weren't able to keep their own identities separate from the Godhead, and they basically wound up as the same Godhead they started with. Granted they had an entire Dragon Break to play around in before they lost their senses of Self and were completely molded into the Godhead.

Ironically, that melding process is very similar to Zero-Summing. Only instead of ceasing to exist retroactively, they were robbed of all sense of individuality. Their memories, personalities, and everything else was overwritten with Anu the Godhead's equivalents. The end result is that Anu the Godhead just got a bit bigger, metaphysically speaking, and did some lucid dreaming.

Had the Selectives managed to acheive CHIM before pulling their stunt, they would have been able to keep their separate identities the same way the Talos-Oversoul was able to keep its identity separate from Lorkahan after Talos mantled him. Of course that would land us with two Dreamers instead of one, and that creates issues.
Ling Xiaoyu - Fri, 07 Jun 2019 01:54:41 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.738284 Ignore Report Reply
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I think you're right but I also think that you mis-typed that one line. The eruption of Red Mountain happened in 4E 5, not the Great Collapse.
Super Meat Boy - Fri, 07 Jun 2019 12:06:30 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738311 Ignore Report Reply
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Whoops my bad, thanks for pointing that out. I don't want to confuse people new to the lore trying to get more into it.


Casting a fire spell isn't so basic. Destruction magic is the most dangerous of the 5 schools of magic to study because you have to be very careful not to blow yourself up. Just because the player has it from the start doesn't mean everyone else does. Manipulating fire is not like manipulating a ball of light. There are consequences. And the followers can manipulate it so well they can aim and throw it at enemy combatants and never miss, which you the player should know thats not always so easy without something like VATS. And they rarely run out of mana points. This is why I don't think the college of Winterhold takes in people who are utterly novices.

Its presumable that every follower in the game has a lot of combat and/or magic experience, which is why they're equipped to successfully help you take down bandits and undead when you're outnumbered 5 to 1, giants, dragons, dragon priests, etc. And the Winterhold followers are some of the best in the game I think.

I also think J'zargo was sort of a poorly written character, he should of been written like Qa'Dojo from the Interesting NPCs mod, he would of been the deepest character in the game. But everyone knows the writers of that mod are more talented than the writers of vanilla Skyrim.
Ermac - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 12:54:28 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738399 Ignore Report Reply
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Is Barbas the stronger half?

Clavicus Vile said he lost nearly all his power by the time of Elder Scrolls 5(the book Infernal City explains why), even saying the Dragonborn is almost as strong as him at that point in time. Yet Barbas is able to freely walk Tamriel (and still be indestructible in combat, naturally), the dream of most Daedric Princes. The only other Daedra we see do this is Sanguine, one of the most powerful Daedra. How hard is that to do? Can any Prince do it? You have to wonder if Clavicus had power to physically manifest on Nirn, seeing as Barbas said Vile couldn't do jack shit unless he was immediately next to a shrine.

If I'm right, why would Clavicus grant Barbas the majority of the power? Aren't Princes supposed to be a lot more greedy than that?

Yet Barbas still refers to Clavicus as his master. Strange. In Skyrim it doesn't seem that way. I hate that the game treats your character like a fucking retard and doesn't give you an option to ask him obvious questions like this.

Maybe Mephala and the Night Mother have a similar relationship to Clavicus Vile and Barbas. Or not, it could be highly unusual, something no other Prince would even consider doing.
Mei Ling - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 13:34:37 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738407 Ignore Report Reply
remember that clavicus is all about deals and contracts. barbas and clavicus are like parts of the same entity because a lone individual can't make bargains and trades. also why clavicus isn't "powerful" since his gimmick is about exchanges and agreements. to do something big he has to get the power to do so by trade or trickery due to his nature.
Hugh Darrow - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 15:14:38 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738413 Ignore Report Reply

i feel like most of the daedra aint even that strong and all they do is influence stuff from the outer edges and they just talk a lot of shit to scare mortals into doing their bidding
Ermac - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 17:43:07 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738422 Ignore Report Reply
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According to nearly all Daedrologists ...

Without the Daedric Princes, who are theorized to be the concepts they represent manifested into sapience, there would no madness (Sheogorath), no dreams nor nightmares (Vaermina), no prophecies (Azura), no luck (Nocturnal) and so on and so on.

Legend holds their realms are infinite in size, and that their realms are an extension of their physical bodies. Daedric Artifacts, which are literally limitless in power(fuck game mechanics), are also physical parts of themselves. Mankar Camoran was able to use Methrune's Razor to alter his nymic to make himself Dragonborn for example.

Daedric Princes never sleep(maybe Sheogorath slept once), and always simultaneously watch everything on Nirn at once. After Daedric quests they'll often laugh and tell you "I'll be watching you". They are constantly watching all of every known and unknown realm(like Oblivion and Aetherius etc.) in addition to Nirn. Sheogorath says all the Princes constantly interacting with each other, so they're clearly "spying" on the entirety of each others infinite realms as well. Taking in and processing that much information at once would be impossible for a mortal.

Time itself operates at the Prince's whim in Oblivion, they're not subject to Akatosh's rules. So time can be nonlinear or flow backwards or make a thousand years pass in a day. Or make all of past, present, and future occur simultaneously. However I think linear time may amuse some of them, so the Shivering Isles seems to have a natural flow of time, but whose to say if for every 1000 years that passes in the Shivering Isles, only 1 second passes on the outside, it makes sense because Sheogorath was in a hurry to stop the Greymarch and you can just return to Tamriel at any time you feel like. The only reason Methrune's Dagon doesn't make 100 years pass by in a minute when you're storming his Oblivion gates in TES4 is because Nirn is seeping into his realm while the gates are open, but it works both ways, thats why immediately outside of the gates you can visibly see The Deadlands seeping out, giving it a hellish appearance.

Azura was able to curse an entire race and change their skin and eye color(who knows what else the curse did) at the snap of a finger, though they were a race that worshiped her, so she already had a lot of influence over them making it easier to pull a stunt like that.

They're certainly more powerful than the Aedra, who had to "cut off parts of themselves" to create the universe until they "died". But death means something different to a God. They still influence the world, but its hard to comprehend what death means to an incomprehensible being.

Clavicus may of meant the Dragonborn is almost more powerful than him on Nirn, where his own power is limited. However many lore scholars say we are bugs compared to them, but I definitely disagree with that. While their minds and power may be beyond our comprehension, you can still communicate with them. Something a bug can never do with a human. Also to us, all cock roaches are the same, but I'm sure they differentiate between an illiterate peasant and the Dragonborn of legend.
Hugh Darrow - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:03:06 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738425 Ignore Report Reply

jesus dude alright let me clarify my statement

i feel like most of the daedra aint even that strong IN NIRN and all they do is influence stuff from the outer edges and they just talk a lot of shit to scare mortals into doing their bidding
Ermac - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:35:20 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738426 Ignore Report Reply

Well the Daedric Artifacts exist on Nirn, which are supposedly thousands times more powerful than what we see in game.
Ivy Valentine - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:58:40 EST ID:1PRipo9X No.738427 Ignore Report Reply
>According to nearly all Daedrologists
Stopped reading there. Everyone knows modern Daedrology is a joke, just a bunch of abstract ivory tower debates and navalgazing citations of trendy post-fourtheraist Daedrologists to make themselves appealing in their grant applications with almost no concrete study of contemporary Daedric phenomena. Oohh, the Daedra are a socially constructed spatial practice, oohh, the Daedra are a libidinal expression of the silences of Imperial land enclosure, ooh, the Daedra are an Utterance. Bitch, I'll show you an Utterance. Worst of all, none of these clowns are willing to even consider my research, which suggests that the Daedra are in fact Ancient Aliens
Mr. X - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 20:13:31 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738428 Ignore Report Reply

yeah, "supposedly", sounds like daedric propaganda to me
Carl Johnson - Sat, 08 Jun 2019 23:14:29 EST ID:ztqoBXBt No.738437 Ignore Report Reply
Wait, how does Lorkhan fit into all of this?
Kane - Sun, 09 Jun 2019 20:19:02 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738486 Ignore Report Reply
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The Staff of Sheogorath can freeze time locally.

The Skeleton Key controls Sotha Sil's mind in ESO's Clockwork City DLC. And it can do a lot more than that. It can not only unlock any door, but also unlock limitless potential inside the wielder. It can also be used to create gateways to any realm.

Azura's Star can contain the souls of the Tribunal Gods.

The Grey Cowl of Nocturnal has the interesting effect of removing everyone's recognition of you and also retroactively changes events surrounding the Thieves Guild in TES4. You can put it on, kill a dozen people in front of a guard, take it off, and he won't know you did it.

Wabbajack is ridiculously powerful, especially when you consider that its effects are supposed to be permanent in-lore. Turning people into coins and animals and shit. According to Sheogorath, it derives its power from your imagination, so the amount of possible transformations vary depending on it.

The Masque of Clavicus Vile can make everyone worship you, and they don't even realize you're wearing the mask.

I don't even know what Sanguine's Rose does but I bet its fucking awesome. Based off what we know of Sanguine's sphere, I assume it can turn water into skooma and make any woman(or dude) feel an overwhelming need to fuck you, even your own daughter if you're into that. Sanguine would approve.

The Ebony Blade can instantly drain the lifeforce of entire armies if you betray enough loved ones with it(betrayals not only increase the power of the sword, but also the wielder), but in ancient times someone put an enchantment on it so that it would never stay with one user for long, so its unlikely to happen now. It also steals the souls of its victims, like Goldbrand and Methrune's Razor etc. The problem with wielding the Ebony Blade is instantly turns the wielder 100% pure evil though.

Sigil Stones may stabilize the existence of Oblivion sub-planes in the Deadlands.

The full set of Savior's Hide allows you to ignore Mehrunes Dagon's reality warping power.

Sword of the Moon River can sever Mehrunes Dagon's anchor to the Battlespire, which allows you to banish him with his Protonymic and Neonymic.

Vaermina's orb helped the High Elves immensely in the Great War, using it to spy on the every movement of the emperor and his generals. And it was used to create a realm with what appears to be non-Euclidean space (you see it in-game in TES4).

The Ring of Khajiiti allowed Rajhin to ascend to godhood.

Methrune's Razor has a 2% chance to one hit kill anyone in the game, even dragons, but I'd imagine if in-universe you studied it enough you could get get it to 100% insta-kill chance. Someone who studies the Razor can do some crazy shit with it, Mankar Camaron used it to cut his nymic to change himself from a common bosmer to a Dragonborn altmer. It can also phsyically cut through anything with the exception of Elder Scrolls themselves.

Thats probably just the tip of the iceberg in terms of their potential.


How does he fit into what?
Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad - Sun, 09 Jun 2019 23:33:29 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738503 Ignore Report Reply
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one issue
>The Skeleton Key controls Sotha Sil's mind in ESO's Clockwork City DLC.
let us not base anything off ESO.

the sigil stone thing is pretty straightforward, you got a daedric realm -here- and mundus -here- and in order to invade or annex you need to expand the daedric realm in the general direction of mundus and anchor the extensions in place so your soap bubble doesn't pull back into a sphere.

also mehrune's razor, lore wise it's basically the 'kill' console command. there's no 2% chance about it, it's supposed to kill whatever it cuts, but ofc that breaks whatever game it's in and isn't included as such.

sanguine rose just summons a daedra that goes mental on everything besides the wielder, because sanguine finds that entertaining. he's basically the party god. there's some lore mentions of him embodying 'dark desires' and stuff like murder and animalistic behavior... but effectively he just gets wasted and has lots of sex, and influences mortals to follow the path of partying.

(pic tangentally related. todd 'chess club' howard sat an interview with some uesp.net peeps recently.)
Astaroth - Mon, 10 Jun 2019 02:35:39 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.738515 Ignore Report Reply
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Oh that's actually super cool of him to do that. I like UESP and find that they do a really thorough job (unlike the Fandom wiki which seems to play it a lot more fast-and-loose especially with lore topics).
King Hippo - Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:43:10 EST ID:lM/Fim3o No.738556 Ignore Report Reply
Can I ask when this orc’s knowledge will apply to any gameplay?

iirc there’s no real dialogue or choices in skyrim.

Are you just playing pretend on your part?

cool lore though.
Kos-Mos - Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:53:20 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.738571 Ignore Report Reply
This just further cements it for me that Todd is the scapegoat for the garbage decisions being made by those above him
Altaïr Ibn La-Ahad - Mon, 10 Jun 2019 14:15:36 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738574 Ignore Report Reply
that and fandom pages tend to jam up on loading and be ad saturated. uesp is basic in the best way, in addition to being the og elder scrolls info archive.
Fei Long - Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:07:27 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738673 Ignore Report Reply
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It seems weird to me that Sanguine's Rose can ONLY summon Daedra(probably an army of them lore-wise though). Daedric Artifacts tend to have multiple functions. The Razor's functionality is virtually limitless because it can be used to cut concepts. But I can't find any lore on what else the Rose is supposed to do. Maybe because using it to make hardcore drugs and sexualize children and give yourself the ability as a male to have non-stop multiple orgasms etc might make it not fit into the boundaries of an M rated game. But all of those things fit into Sanguine's sphere better than what we use it for in the games.

I know Martin Septim said he possessed the Rose at one point, but was the only thing he really used it for was senseless slaughter? He seemed to have a deep understanding of Daedric magic, so I assumed he would of studied it to unlock its deeper potential.


There are mods you can use to make your character's lore knowledge apply more to gameplay, but they aren't necessarily required for such a character. Part of the beauty of TES games is crafting a backstory for your character, for example does he or she have any family outside Skyrim?

Other roleplays can be reflected in gameplay however, like a Dark Elf who kills Argonians because they sacked his homeland 200 years ago and killed his ancestors (Dunmer are hardcore into ancestor worship).

My drug dealer knows a guy who did 17 different roleplays in Skyrim. If you know the lore, Elder Scrolls gives you a lot more freedom to craft a backstory for your character than other games do.


Is Todd Howard the one who wanted to use the Imperialized Pantheon in Skyrim instead of the ancient Nordic one? Because I have no idea who's decision that was. If so he really fucked up. Like do they think consumers are fucking retarded or something and can't accept that different regions have different names for the Gods?
Astaroth - Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:08:45 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.738693 Ignore Report Reply
I think that Todd probably has a tough job. He needs to balance the business decisions being asked by the higher-ups at Zenimax and the desires of his team to make a great game that they really want to play.

I do hope that for the next mainline TES game they maintain their previous level of "roleplay-ability". I felt like so much of that got lost with Fallout 4 having a voices protagonist and their dialogue system that left no room for player choice or roleplaying.
Gitaroo-Man - Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:20:36 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738694 Ignore Report Reply
just having the sanguine rose as a ritual item makes it powerful, like any daedric thing. in oblivion martin can use it as part of a super spell to break into another dimension, not much fun as a usable item but a big deal in lore terms.

the neat bit is that all the dialogue together suggests this is the second time martin has used the artifact to fuel a spell. since martin had it once, but the player gets it direct from sanguine, means it went back to oblivion during the interim. martin mentions that his daedra worshipping friends from the time died. i assume they blew themselves up or got eaten by daedra after using up the rose on some big magic thing.
Phoenix Wright - Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:40:01 EST ID:BxqrVHsS No.738696 Ignore Report Reply
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You know, none of the directors for Id, Arkane, Tango, MachineGames, or ZeniMax Online are having issues with their higher-ups at ZeniMax. Maybe, just maybe.... and I'm going far out on a limb here... but just maybe all the problems that Todd is having at BGS with his and Emil Pagliarulo's direction of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series are caused by none other than the Todd himself.
Kamek - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:06:24 EST ID:OMoVVrNb No.738710 Ignore Report Reply
The main problem is the shitty buggy game engine that they've been using over a decade.
Sephiroth - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:41:45 EST ID:LjQyY33m No.738719 Ignore Report Reply
how can one man be so evil yet so attractive?
Lord Lucien - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:43:19 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738749 Ignore Report Reply
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I think the biggest problem is they watered down the lore for Skyrim. They used the Imperial Pantheon(9 divines from Elder Scrolls 4) instead of the Nordic one. This is important because in Elder Scrolls there's a natural force where belief shapes reality called mythopoeia, so if two cultures worship the same God under different names, both Gods become real.


While it makes sense that 200 years have passed since Oblivion, when Akatosh himself took physical form in the Imperial City to save all of Tamriel, people might start to come to accept him as an important deity in foreign provinces, we barely saw a trace of the OG Nordic religion. Even Kyne, their most important deity, was replaced with Kynareth at her temple in Whiterun. We should of saw both religions in conflict with each other. Instead of fighting a war being fought entirely over Talos Worship, the war could of had the additional element of being against the Imperialization of their religion. But apparently Bethesda thinks all the consumers are too retarded to understand this. I don't know if the blame lays with Todd Howard or not though.

They watered down the lore for Oblivion too. In Morrowind you always hear people talking about how Cyrodil is an untamed jungle region. But no, they wanted to leech off Lord of The Rings' success, so they just decided "let's change it to a grassland. fuck established lore"
Rayne - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:56:38 EST ID:JAfM/azk No.738750 Ignore Report Reply
I think someone else, in this very thread, already came up with a semi-decent in-game explanation as to why Cyrodiil became a forest
Lord Lucien - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:56:35 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738752 Ignore Report Reply
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I know. They threw a cheap explanation at us, but I'd of much rather played the game in an untamed Jungle, Cyrodil was originally supposed to resemble the Aztec Empire, like pic related.

Which would you rather play in? Something exotic and not done before? Or the same Lord of The Rings style shit thats been done 1000 times already?
Raziel - Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:00:10 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.738756 Ignore Report Reply

link it im too lazy to find it
Dregs - Thu, 13 Jun 2019 04:30:35 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.738774 Ignore Report Reply
Some emperor achieved CHIM, died, and ascended to godhood, and changed the landscape to give his people an easier time.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:37:22 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.738811 Ignore Report Reply

This, the activation of the first Nuimidium caused a Dragonbreak where all sorts of wacky shit happened, including the changing climates.
>'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.
Death Adder - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 11:25:24 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738887 Ignore Report Reply
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I'm not sure I follow. The first activation of Nuimidium was at the battle of Red Mountain, long before Tiber Septim was even born. And even people in Elder Scrolls 3 say Cyrodil is a jungle, 2 eras after the initial activation.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:56:01 EST ID:bzxmOK8n No.738892 Ignore Report Reply
This is the bit I mean
>The Numidium was gifted to Tiber Septim by the Tribunal in return for Morrowind's semi-autonomy during his conquest of Tamriel. The Emperor ordered his Imperial Battlemage, Zurin Arctus, to construct a control device known as the Totem of Tiber Septim. The Tribunal did not include the Heart as a power source, due to it being the source of their divine power, so a new one called the Mantella was created and infused with a powerful life energy. The Numidium was used by Tiber Septim to subjugate all of Tamriel, including the neutral Tamrielic royal families, in an attempt to eliminate anyone not absolutely loyal to his rule.

Sometime during that clusterfuck and before Daggerfall dude undid the jungle and also undid the history of it ever being a jungle too? And also not.

The shit will never make sense MST3k Mantra that shit.
Soap MacTavish - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 20:16:03 EST ID:yP0BW1e/ No.738901 Ignore Report Reply
Wait, I thought that the activation of the Numidium happened at the end of Daggerfall's main quest (and that the dragon-break idea was conceived as a way to unify all of the different Daggerfall endings as canon simultaneously). I think that the battle of Red Mountain happened way before that in the timeline.

I believe that the technological limitations of the XB360 also factored into Cyrodil not being a jungle province, as the game would have ran super duper slowly on that hardware if they had to render a million trees all the time.

To be fair, the Morrowind lore (while it was deep and truly awesome) was pretty insane, and to have tried to extend all of that while also keeping the same level of depth would've been a writer's nightmare. I feel like they made the only decent decision between trying (and butchering) to go with the existing lore versus simplifying its presentation for a new audience and then extending that simplified version.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 21:15:31 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.738902 Ignore Report Reply
Its been used a few times, once on Red mountain, it was used during the war of conquest, and then again used a final time at the end of Daggerfall causing the warp in the west.
Soap MacTavish - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 22:17:52 EST ID:yP0BW1e/ No.738905 Ignore Report Reply
Oh but wasn't the Red Mountain usage the second Numidium that was activated before it was finished and it backfired horribly and made all of the dwemer disappear forever?
Trish - Sat, 15 Jun 2019 22:48:53 EST ID:S4c8HFon No.738907 Ignore Report Reply
that was mostly yung kagrenac and the tonal boys accidentally dividing by zero and canceling out their entire race.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sun, 16 Jun 2019 01:10:07 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.738915 Ignore Report Reply
Numidium was first powered by the Heart of Lorkhan, but by the time The Empire came knocking on Morrowind's door (and the sacking Mournhold) the Dwarves were gone, the Tribunal did their thing, Dagoth did his leaving the Tribunal secretly crippled and in no position for war. Vivec signed an armistice allowing Morrowind to basically operate as it always had, with only lip service being paid to imperial laws. (shit like Ancestor worship and slavery were illegal everywhere in the empire but Morrowind)

Tiber was given the Golem, but not the Heart of Lorkhan itself (since Dagoth Ur still had possession of it in secret)
Tiber had to use the Mantella instead to power the golem. The Mantella was like a big fuck off soulgem that held part of the underkings soul in it or someshit.

Tiber does his big conquering spree, activating it himself for the first time, changing shit around and taking over Summerset Isles in hours. This use of the Golem wasn't as destructive or wonky as the second use that caused the Warp in the West. All the changes made were smooth transitions. So smooth that we might not know what all really was fucked with. The Battlemage who's soul powered the Mantella was kind of pissy about how easily Tiber was able to literally reshape the world however he wanted and thought doing such a thing was an abuse of power. So he broke the Mantella (or maybe he didn't and maybe he was Lorkahn the whole time and it was like a second heart who fucking knows mate)

Daggerfall is about you finding the bits of the Mantella and the Totem of Tiber Septim (the carkeys) and the warp is all endings of that game, at once. And not. Schrodinger wept.

The warp seemed like an event that really fucked things up violently. Some people felt three days of time pass, others felt one. Earthquakes, explosions, tsunamis, all sorts of bad mojo went down.
Lord of Shadowgate - Mon, 17 Jun 2019 14:45:20 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.738999 Ignore Report Reply

Why was ancestor worship illegal in most of the Empire?
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Mon, 17 Jun 2019 16:31:05 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.739007 Ignore Report Reply
Ancestor Worship basically amounts to Daedra worship, and most Deadra worshipers in the other provinces were basically psychotic outlaws (or the shattered remnants of the Aleyids.) Remember how Talos Worrship became a nono after the 4th era started? The Thalmor made it illegal to worship the face and spirit of the third empire.
The same shit happened after the Aleyids fell. Aleyids were deemed as "godless" and Daedaphiles. I’d assume necromancy became banned during Alessia’s time, but there's no definite date for that law, and it was probably one of those laws that people skirt around or is rarely investigated.

On the flip side Necromancy was not Illegal throughout the Empire until after the armsice, but again it was something not really enforced outside of Morrowind, but in the 'wind they'd take your fucking head for defiling the ancestors.

More reading here
Lord of Shadowgate - Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:44:49 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739012 Ignore Report Reply

Why do people lump Daedra worship together with ancestor worship though? They don't seem like they have much to do with each other.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:48:43 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.739014 Ignore Report Reply
To them its one and the same
>The Dunmer believe that the spirits of the dead live on in Nirn. They can know and affect the future, and can speak with other spirits, and work great magic, so the Dunmer honor and give gifts to them, and ask them for aid and protection. Strong spirits of warriors and wise women preserve the honor and wisdom of the race. The worst spirits are evil and harmful called ghosts, devils, and demons. The oldest of the great ancestor spirits are the Daedra.
Dregs - Mon, 17 Jun 2019 23:05:06 EST ID:qrPHyWe8 No.739029 Ignore Report Reply
In Tamriel, worshipping (or believing in, fearing, loving, etc) any non material being can cause it to actually become a god. People can invent weak gods by just worshipping them, and the more worship the god gets, the more real and powerful it becomes. The empire seeks to weaken unknown and ancient forces so they can maintain order under the rule of men. If daedra worship became too prevalent, the daedra would have no trouble invading nirn and enslaving all men and mer.
Jack Rex - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 04:23:01 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.739047 Ignore Report Reply
Aren't those the Aedra that are the oldest ancestor spirits? I thought that the Daedra literally translated to "not our ancestors"?
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 09:13:17 EST ID:gNBJa0Vj No.739058 Ignore Report Reply
It does, this shit isn't ever going to make perfect sense lmao.

>Malacath, who legend holds was once the Aedra Trinimac
>According to Mankar Camoran, Lorkhan is also a Daedric Prince

>As Aldmeri society evolved, commoners stopped worshipping their own ancestors and began worshipping the ancestors of their social "betters", elevating them to the level of gods through collective adulation. Trinimac was one such ancestor. He is often referred to as the champion of Auri-El (even the champion of the entire pantheon).He's found in the pantheon of several races of elves, including that of the Snow Elves.Altmeri creation myth says Trinimac was on the front line during the et'Ada's conflict with Lorkhan, who they believe tricked their ancestors into creating Mundus. After Lorkhan's forces drove them from Atmora and sundered Old Ehlnofey, the legend says Trinimac knocked down Lorkhan in front of his army and ripped out his Heart "with more than hands", undoing the God of Mortals. But when Trinimac and Auri-El tried to destroy the Heart, the Heart just mocked them and said, "This Heart is the heart of the world, for one was made to satisfy the other", forcing them to hide it instead.

>Trinimac became particularly well-known for spreading what is today the Altmeri understanding of the events surrounding Lorkhan. He preached that Lorkhan's idea for the mortal realm had been a trick all along and fomented war against Lorkhan and his followers, men. He believed that "tears were the best response to the Sundering", and encouraged hatred of Lorkhan

This shit was written as a big puzzle of maybes and what ifs. I have to say it worked well considering we are discussing this goofy shit like 17+ years after it was written.
Princess Daisy - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:58:23 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739070 Ignore Report Reply
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We all know Sheogorath was only able to open a portal to his realm after Martin's sacrifice because he's only doing it as an invitation, not to invade Tamriel. Otherwise it would be impossible.

But what happens if after the Champion of Cyrodill becomes Sheogorath, the player decides to kill every NPC in Cyrodill? Does this create a plot hole?


Yeah sometimes Elder Scrolls seems more like a work of literature than a mere game series.
George Stobbart - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 16:59:36 EST ID:EBO7Zaaq No.739071 Ignore Report Reply
The image you posted is pure cringe.
Princess Daisy - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:05:53 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739072 Ignore Report Reply
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> Dovahkiin: "Our mutual friend sent me"

> Malborn "Really? You're who she picked? Here's the deal, I can smuggle some equipment into the embassy for you. Don't plan on taking anything else in with you. The Thalmor take security very seriously."

> Dovahkiin: "So what kinds of things should I bring to the party?"

> Malborn: "You're asking me!? Delphine told me you knew what you were doing.
Just bring whatever you need to move quietly and kill quickly."

> Dovahkiin: "Kill quickly? What? What kind of party is this?" (OH I get it. He means like kill social. Like "he was dressed to kill")
Princess Daisy - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:09:21 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739073 Ignore Report Reply

Its based off a popular 7 part ingame book where a young Dark Elf noble runs away from home and sleeps with a dark elf, a khajiit, and a lot of Nords early on. And later Tiber Septim himself. Its a good read.
Nakoruru - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:49:42 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.739074 Ignore Report Reply

lol i liked getting that one guy drunk and convincing him to talk a bunch of shit loudly as a distraction
Cody - Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:51:38 EST ID:ixbrH7w1 No.739075 Ignore Report Reply
Pretty much all fanart is cringe bro.
Darkwing Duck - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:23:14 EST ID:u1mnetgf No.739102 Ignore Report Reply
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Some artists are decent.
Pikmin - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:42:38 EST ID:wutGafCX No.739103 Ignore Report Reply
Decent isnt much in the context of fanboy autism
Cinder - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:47:19 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739121 Ignore Report Reply
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Locke - Wed, 19 Jun 2019 22:39:16 EST ID:joxNmdt2 No.739131 Ignore Report Reply
But, not that one.
Birdo - Thu, 20 Jun 2019 19:13:22 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739171 Ignore Report Reply
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My theory is the Elder Scrolls 4 player gradually developed OCD, paranoia, antisocial personality disorder (sociopathy/psychopathy), dementia, bipolar disorder, psychosis, schizophrenia (delusions/hallucinations), histrionic personality disorder, and ADHD upon entering Sheogorath's realm, as these are what I would diagnose Sheogorath himself with(also a fascination with body parts). The thing is, you can't actually read the mind of the player character while playing, so its hard to show it as part of the plot. And I think it was gradual.

Although he is the Daedric Prince of Madness, he clearly doesn't personally suffer every single variety of insanity. This is evidenced by the fact that he is clearly capable of keeping secrets from mortals and other Daedra. There are disorders that make people unable to resist speaking all of their thoughts immediately as they pop into their heads. And he seems to be the most clever Prince, constantly outsmarting and tricking his peers (assuming half the stories about him are true, and not yet another case of the "unreliable narrators" you often find in Elder Scrolls lore). He would not be able to maintain his reputation as the most clever Prince if he had EVERY diagnosis possible.

If he had EVERYTHING he would be: paralyzed for long periods of time, a violent rapist/exhibitionist, a masochist, and severely retarded (just to name a few). His APD likely is what leads to his keen mind and manipulative behavior. His psychotic attributes give him lateral thinking, this means he can outsmart other Gods. Remember Sheogorath is the patron of more than just madness. He's patron to the arts(even his voice is a work of art) and to "lateral thinkers".

In order for a mortal to mantle a God, you have to trick the Godhead by "Walking like them until they act like you". So you needed to act like Sheogorath as much as possible, and Sheogorath needed to act like the player as much as possible. This was a much easier mantling than other examples in the lore because he actually wanted to be mantled by the player.

Sheogorath is definitely the most terrifying Prince. He's extremely violent and extremely unpredictable. The kooky old man act is just to catch mortals off guard from time to time. He wasn't really that old man sitting on a throne in the Shivering Isles DLC, he is formless, observing every inch of his realm simultaneously the entire time you were there, and also existing inside every residents' mind there, he isn't what causes madness, he IS madness.
Birdo - Thu, 20 Jun 2019 19:22:05 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739173 Ignore Report Reply
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typo. Walk like them until they walk like you.
Ghost Riley - Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:19:37 EST ID:tsamVJxk No.739228 Ignore Report Reply
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King K. Rool - Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:41:11 EST ID:PZGQJQZK No.739229 Ignore Report Reply
I lol'd
Death Adder - Sat, 22 Jun 2019 23:44:37 EST ID:noL7S+Qv No.739238 Ignore Report Reply
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