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Now Playing on /vg/tube -

Game design that grinds your gears.

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- Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:46:16 EST 5JgaaZWD No.749688
File: 1582386376839.jpg -(40909B / 39.95KB, 500x470) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Game design that grinds your gears.
When the game take control away from your character in order to make you watch a struggle scene.

Enemies taking a swing at you and hits EVEN THOUGH it's clear the hit didn't connect.

Inability to change difficulty mid game.

Loading screens for fully rendered main menus (???)

You guys got some more?
>>
Four - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:59:17 EST I1LEDewa No.749689 Reply
1582387157391.png -(20427B / 19.95KB, 103x86) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>boss fights you cant win

Fucking hate that shit. What's the point of getting me all hyped up to kick this villain's ass only to take all control away from and make me watch my party dies?

I have so little control over the role playing game. The battle is the only place I get to play the actual game and get to make decisions. It's never a good place to tell a story.
actually I Legend of Dragoon was the only game I played that did it right.
>>
Sly Boots - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:05:50 EST 2Fb9kySD No.749690 Reply
>>749689
The first fight in FF2 did it. It didnt bother me cause the fight was like less than 30 seconds but I know what you mean. The first fight in Sekiro did it too, but that ones actually possible to beat. Its just ridiculously hard.
>>
Miles Tails Prower - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:56:04 EST 20WTriXt No.749692 Reply
>>749690
I really like it when they do it that way that you're not supposed to win the fight but you can if you're good, less so if they force you to lose in the cut scene anyway but it's pretty rare that they actually let you just win and change the story
>>
Yoshi - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 12:10:16 EST Tc8c0mf8 No.749694 Reply
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>controls aren't remappable
>>
Prince of Persia - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 12:48:24 EST R8xVP9gf No.749695 Reply
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>unskippable cutscenes

Having to go through that 10 minute scene before fighting Yunalesca every fucking time can literally suck my ass
>>
Eddy Gordo - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:17:11 EST lmeASA0D No.749696 Reply
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Protagonists that talk way too much to themselves, Aloy from H:ZD, protag from Far Cry 3, biker dude from Days Gone. They need to be entertaining, like Arthur from RDR2, or at least not talk to themselves constantly.

I also hate when games don't have sliders for mixing the audio. Did we mix the SFX way too high in this game? Can't hear what this NPC is telling you mid-fight? Too bad, go fuck yourself. Thankfully those seem to be incredibly rare these days.

>>749695
This is what stops me from replaying Max Payne 3 like once a month.
>>
Four - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:31:54 EST FEAXip+M No.749697 Reply
>>749692
It's great beating the overpowered boss in the second playthrough and you get a slightly different cutscene from the original. Story events doesn't change but the game acknowledges your effort.
>>
Michael Thorton - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 16:42:03 EST 5JgaaZWD No.749702 Reply
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>>749695

Yeah holy shit why is that a thing?

But tbh the cutscenes that makes you wait like 10 seconds before allowing a skip are fucking worse. Why even do this?
>>
Brucie Kibbutz - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:05:44 EST Gbx4cP4S No.749705 Reply
When jumping is slightly faster than running

>>749702
>makes you wait like 10 seconds
The cutscene is hiding a loading screen for the next segment
>>
Bloodmongo McFerguson - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:36:31 EST e5W+pgOZ No.749706 Reply
When you have to follow a character but they walk slower than you are physically able to

First person shooters where you can headglitch (you get shot by another player but only the very tip of the top of his helmet is visible)

Shooters where you cannot crouch(ie GTA V)

Third person shooters where you can’t swap what side the camera is on while aiming

Non removable Hit markers in non-competitive games(ie RDR2, Hitman)
>>
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:44:17 EST bzxmOK8n No.749707 Reply
>>749706
Speaking of GTA
>Stairs/ladders that just suck to fucking climb. Double that if the controls are loose and floaty like GTA's where one slight mistake sends you r guy running over level geometry and down to his death.
>>
Sofia Lamb - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 17:46:15 EST zRMIfnL5 No.749708 Reply
>>749706
>When you have to follow a character but they walk slower than you are physically able to

and then the game has a walk command but it's slower than them
>>
Michael Thorton - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 18:11:27 EST 5JgaaZWD No.749710 Reply
>>749708

>and then the game has a walk command but it's slower than them

Hello Bethesda.
>>
Prince of Persia - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 18:31:54 EST R8xVP9gf No.749711 Reply
>>749706
>When you have to follow a character but they walk slower than you are physically able to

reminds me of the library level in Halo 1, the fuck were they thinking
>>
pro epic gamer DON'T MESS WITH ME !!vVWR8L52 - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:51:29 EST 9LavymJt No.749712 Reply
regenerating health
blood on the screen to indicate low health
auto-aim (except in metroid prime because its ok when nintendo does it mkay)
unchangeable and low field of view
manual saves at any point (although in rts, 4x and simulation games it makes more sense)
getting more powerful through xp and grinding instead of by overcoming challenges
>>
ToeJam & Earl - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:53:03 EST DHezT4Lv No.749713 Reply
>>749707
Ive played a lot of games of varying difficulties in my time but I have yet to fully master the latter
>>
Locke - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:55:47 EST JHI3r/nf No.749714 Reply
>>749712
I fucking hate checkpoints and autosave with a passion. Like, to the point it's virtually unplayable if I can't manual save.
>>
NameNameNameNameNameName - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 21:18:05 EST 9LavymJt No.749718 Reply
>>749714
In all kinds of game or just a specific kind? To me the very limited manual saves (which act kind of like checkpoints) is what made resident evil and soulsborne games feel so good. Because I don't know, quicksaves are kind of cheating, I think. It's basically savestates but implemented in the game. I think it ruins the difficulty.
>>
Cole Phelps - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 21:20:51 EST OsBmWGXK No.749720 Reply
>>749714
Most games now a feature you turn that shit off. RE2 remake did a good job on that on hardcore mode. But you can end up with 10 plus links I'd you know what you are doing second time around.
>>
Pitfall Harry - Sat, 22 Feb 2020 23:23:23 EST ZeGrej/c No.749727 Reply
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>>749718
I dunno, a lot of games will do quicksaves but either not near enemies or not in active combat.

The games that do a stack of multiple quicksaves really give it to you though. If you're gonna get free quicksaves whenever you want, you should DEFINITELY be able to fuck yourself over in an unwinnable situation and have to bail on that save.
But nah, you've got your last 3 quicksaves to choose from if you need... Literally savestates.

But at the same time, it is a feature that will absolutely save a buggy/crashy game from being unplayable garbage.
There's a valid application for all of these systems but the devs really gotta choose wisely.
>>
Jin Kazama - Sun, 23 Feb 2020 16:29:48 EST 74D1EHSS No.749742 Reply
>>749727
Having to redo 15 minutes or being outright forced to play the game for another 15 because you don't have a save is inexcusable. You don't have to savescum. Just don't use it if that's a problem, or go on ironman or something. There's really no excuse for not having manual saves especially because sometimes you want to actually title your game what is happening and what is going on if you want to set it down and come back to it later. Like the only example I can think of where it's okay is if the game itself is incredibly short or you're playing marathon sessions with it anyway. KOTOR is a great example. What did I just do? What am I having to remember I'm going to do before doing that next thing? Maybe I don't fucking feel like turning it off immediately before or immediately after a boss fight and it never let me save for some reason, or at least as bad if not worse, forcing me to sit there through a five minute cut scene to repeat something rather than just letting me save immediately after the cut scene played. Like holy hell is that annoying.

Or better yet, maybe I'm streaming or reviewing the games. You ever think if that? Maybe I don't want to actually sit there and review the game while playing it for the first time and I want to have up to a hundred different save slots because I don't want to have to repeat an hour of gameplay just to show somebody something (like Dead Space for example). Maybe I want to be able to go back and load a game right at the exact point I left a note to myself to show somebody something cool or some bug that I otherwise wouldnt want to bother with saving. If it's checkpoint based with no saves like fucking hell am I ever going to review THAT game.

Orrrr like has already been said ITT, what if there's a bug? A game breaking one even. What if I'm playing an Obsidian game. I had to put up with so much bullshit in those games and reload out of so many places. FNV crashed fucking constantly. Pillars of Eternity gave me all kinds of corrupted saves and weird bugs. It got to the point in some Obsidian games where I ead actively making multiple saves in each area just because I didn't want to have to go back a solid 5 hours of gameplay and remember to do again every single thing I just did because the game fucked me two hours in without even realizing it before playing another three hours. If I've got manual saves this isn't usually as big a deal if I've got literally a hundred saves for every single game so I can just go back and only lose a few minutes to bugs, or just generally not waste all kinds of time particularly wanting to play one exact area again or show somebody something.

It's like tabbed browsing. Why the fucking hell should I put up with any web browser telling me I can only have a maximum of ten or twenty tabs open? Or even fucking worse, a browser that doesn't even allow tabbed browsing at all. Why shouldn't I be "allowed" to have 100 tabs open? Or what if I'm being told I have to wait another two or five threads or articles later before having to shut my computer off otherwise it'll plop me back to something I was last reading literally hours ago. Then imagine you get a 502 error or some bullshit loading a page and it forces you to go back hours and have to track all the way back through your various thread links. Don't like it? Then just dont ever open more than one tab at a time.
>>
Meta Knight - Sun, 23 Feb 2020 16:54:55 EST JFb1Y+00 No.749743 Reply
>>749742
>Having to redo 15 minutes or being outright forced to play the game for another 15 because you don't have a save is inexcusable.

No it isn't, and some of the most fun games do this to raise tension during segments that were always meant to be endurance trials.
>>
Toad - Sun, 23 Feb 2020 19:40:46 EST 74D1EHSS No.749745 Reply
>>749743
If you actually have to rely on filling the player with dread they have to waste 15 minutes of their time you aren't creating "tension" in a game
>>
Professor Layton - Sun, 23 Feb 2020 19:46:49 EST JFb1Y+00 No.749746 Reply
>>749745
Dude there are entire games built on this shit. Get your head out of the standard linear bullshit simulator.
>>
Dylan Morton - Sun, 23 Feb 2020 19:54:51 EST XUc1sXap No.749747 Reply
>>749745
It depends on the segment. If that's a well crafted and enjoyable segment that's fun to perfect, it's definitely justifiable
>>
Franziska Von Karma - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 14:17:54 EST VIDDRpL6 No.749767 Reply
>>749746
Name them
>linear bullshit simulator
lol I was thinking of things like crpgs when I wrote that although it definitely applies more to shooters. It's totally fake tension. Like, artificial, contrived of the worst possible sort. It's just flat out immersion breaking and 4th wall violating when I actually have to think about the time I've wasted reloading. I shouldn't be artificially forced to stop playing at the start of some level.
>>
Yugo Ogami - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 15:34:05 EST tE2Cvwsf No.749768 Reply
>>749767
Every roguelike ever.
The survival mode from Alien Isolation, which IS better than the main game, fucking fite me.
S-rank speed running any Resident Evil game ever. In which you always have at least twice as much time as you need, but only 3 saves.
Everything that smells like Dark Souls, especially if you miss one of the more hidden bonfires.
Any time you hit a continue on any console game from before 1995.
>>
Andrew Ryan - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 20:09:44 EST KXq9isif No.749773 Reply
>>749768
Roguelikes don't have a save. Something like FTL or TLJH when you crash and burn, you're done. That isn't artificial tension. That is losing possibly hours of progress because of perpetual ironman mode and not what I'm talking about. The tension in XCOM is the same way. It's tense specifically because there are no do overs. This is completely different from a bullshit checkpoint system. I don't play shitty console games so idk. I haven't played any of those other games either but iirc most survival horror like SOMA also doesn't use a checkpoint system it just saves wherever you are. Note: checkpoint system. Something that forces you to keep playing that shitty game for an indeterminable amount of time until you reach the latest checkpoint, rather than an autosave system with only one perpetually overwriting save slot which is only acceptable in certain very rare games and even then there's positively no reason *not* to offer a save menu and then simply adding an option in the game options menu to enable or disable ironman.
>>
Sly Cooper - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 20:24:27 EST tE2Cvwsf No.749774 Reply
>>749773
>It's tense specifically because there are no do overs.
if you hit alt-f4 or unplug your console before the next turn begins there are do-overs. I learned this because the mouse interface is ass and would regularly move units to the wrong square. Controller is the clear way to play XCOM

Resident Evil doesn't have checkpoints unless you're playing one of the very recent ones on babby's first difficulties.

Checkpoints are literally just a freeform version of the levels of old. They've always been a valid design choice.
And the secret of games like Kingdom Come: Deliverance that don't let you save all day (at least not without being super expensive) is that when you die and replay it, you do different shit. And eventually the game stopped crashing and it's much better for that design choice.

And honestly I resent the fact that so many games started using autosaves and checkpoints that nobody can save worth a damn anymore, which pressured WAY MORE games to adopt the same system as players stopped blaming themselves for their stupidity and started blaming the games.
>>
Servbot - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 21:39:33 EST DAA8mZAi No.749775 Reply
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>>749774
Like I said, I never played Resident Evil. I don't even own a console. I haven't even played on one since Bush was in office.
>playing XCOM on console
>>
Kung Lao - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 22:19:16 EST 2Fb9kySD No.749776 Reply
>>749775
Just shut up and play resident evil then. Its on pc or you can just emulate it. Kinda sucks you dont own a ps4, cause you wont be able to play bloodborne until they decide to release it on there or ps4 emulation catches up. Playing x com on console is fine. Its not like its an rts.
>>
honk - Mon, 24 Feb 2020 23:32:41 EST hRfsG87y No.749777 Reply
>>749775
Welp at least thank you for letting us know your opinion on this board is completely irrelevant.
>>
Ashley Riot - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 00:58:10 EST 8mD2rETv No.749783 Reply
>>749775
The new ones are totally streamlined. They'd play just fine on a console. I've never tried them but it seems like a reasonable fit.
>>
Sly Cooper - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 11:44:40 EST tE2Cvwsf No.749793 Reply
>>749783
The issue is mods, but if you look at XCOM 2's expansion, it's essentially the official version of a Long War conversion.

The games have enough shit going on on console.
>>
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 11:53:41 EST bzxmOK8n No.749794 Reply
>>749783
Using an xbox controller plugged into my pc I can say that xcom and its sequels work just fine with a controller.
>>
Taki - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:14:57 EST lmeASA0D No.749795 Reply
I tried playing Xcom 2 on PS4 when it was the ps+ game of the month after already beating it on PC and holy fuck those loading times are absolutely atrocious, I'm talking worse than Bloodborne's loading times on launch, that's the only reason I would really advise against playing 2 on console.

However I got into the series first by watching my friend play enemy within on 360 and that ran much better, just for clarification.
>>
Sly Cooper - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 12:29:58 EST tE2Cvwsf No.749796 Reply
>>749794
Lies. They work much better and XCOM2 launching without controller support was a massive fail.

Not that it needed to be this way. It absolutely didn't.
Phoenix point doesn't have
A: fucked up occlusion where you can easily click the square behind and underneath your intended target
B: an over simplified action system where partial moves still completely end an action
any controller support at all.:(
>>
Taki - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 13:31:41 EST lmeASA0D No.749798 Reply
>>749797
Most of what I play on it these days wouldn't really benefit from an SSD, like the remastered Yakuza games and the Jak trilogy. And stuff that would benefit from it I either play on PC, or is God of War and Horizon:ZD, and I've already played through those.
>>
Sly Cooper - Tue, 25 Feb 2020 13:53:41 EST tE2Cvwsf No.749799 Reply
>>749797
I honestly wish you could feed a PS4 an iSCSI to use as storage. I'd centralize all my console storage on an SSD caching NAS.

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