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- Mon, 13 Apr 2020 12:08:18 EST Pzo7k+yX No.751495
File: 1586794098411.jpg -(206205B / 201.37KB, 1170x1560) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Stellaris
Holy shit WTF I have no idea what I'm doing Jesus Christ this game is complicated, even for a 4x game. Doesn't help that the UI is cluttered as shit, and the automation doesn't work. And that sometimes it isn't clear what a benefit will do for you because administrative capacity doesn't automatically mean a bigger empire in my mind.

That being said, I'm really enjoying playing as an unethical criminal organization that only trades in favours and cripples the galactic economy by doing so. The AI factions haven't seen alloys since we came into contact, which means no fleets or colonization for them until I declare war. They won't declare war on me, because I'm currently running the galactic senate and my federation of idiots. With a fleet power of 10k. Gotta say, if I hadn't known about this exploit, it would have been very tedious to learn this game.

Still a few things I'm confused on. Like what does diplomatic weight do? Does it make diplomacy with a single faction easier, or does it make my points in the senate and federation worth more? Also I'm not really sure if I should play this as a 4x game or more like dwarf fortress, where I'm just playing to see what happens. It gives off a lot of "telling a story instead of playing a game" vibes.
Dregs - Mon, 13 Apr 2020 12:23:59 EST Pzo7k+yX No.751498 Reply
Also can't really figure out how extra researchers actually affects the speed of research, which is frustrating. Any tips/stories would be appreciated from people who play this. I just realized I somehow failed to drain the whole galaxy of their resources and now I only have a good diplomatic stance with everyone because I've been doing business with them all. But I feel like if I had played normally, I would have been crushed by now. The AI is really starting to outclass my fleets and they've only had alloy for like a year.
internet bullying overcomer 💪✊ - Mon, 13 Apr 2020 13:15:23 EST dCArBFvj No.751500 Reply
this game is actually really easy
Amy Rose - Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:41:49 EST TDlhWPaa No.751504 Reply
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I wanted to get into it but with how complicated and production/detail oriented my coding job is every day is I couldn't be arsed to sit down and earn a BA to play some fuckin strategy game.
Sinistar - Mon, 13 Apr 2020 18:47:32 EST jSVdA87p No.751513 Reply
it's really easy to kite enemy fleets so that even if you never would win a fight you can at least let them chase you forever and cripple them economically by using a few tiny groups to destroy mining stations. The war AI is hardly even smarter than a potato.
Mike Dawson - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 06:21:54 EST BJtLvEfC No.751526 Reply
Disclaimer; I have 800 hours but I haven't played for a while. When the net expansion is settled in I will probably buy and play it though. I am not an amazing player but I have tried most playstyles.

Everyone has alloy.

Stellaris is a game you learn by failing repeatedly and realising you did something fucking dumb the first few times. There's guides, wikis and people like me who will answer questions so you may need to chip away at your ignorance incrementally and that's fine. It's not the most complicated game but it's not simple and at endgame the micro can get silly. I always end up stopping population growth on half my planets though a lot of people don't actually play games to the win point, just till it's obvious that will happen and so avoid that issue. However when you own 3/4 of the galaxy and most of your world are fully built up you start being unable to handle overpopulation with natural migration (the liberahl option, cheaper, easier but doesn't work as well if you're not all robots) or forced relocation.

Every tech has a cost in research. This is inflated if your empire grows but if you build at all sensibly you should be able to vastly outstrip this rate of inflation (it's linear, also you can specialise planets as you get bigger). Researchers generate research points for various sciences. Most jobs use some resources and generate others. In early game if you want to tech rush it doesn't hurt to stay small but eventually you'll need to land grab and long run it's usually better to get big sooner. Just try not to step on any fallen empires or run into your friendly neighbourhood fanatical purifiers.

Anyway allows can be made in foundries and their upgraded versions and everyone gets those. You just need minerals which everyone gets. Alloy space stations help but everyone has on planet production including on their home world. Making people unable to build (or maintain, ships require them to maintain) a fleet would be problematic.

You can play it as a story or a game. It has room for both. The game will always throw surprises at you whatever. Once I decided I'd play as bad guys and went xenophobic authoritarian materialists so I could exploit xenos. Ended up with 2 fanatic purifiers adjacent to me.

10K is a huge fleet in the first few years. But it's shit all later on. Depending what you did with the various sliders it varies but even on a small galaxy it won't even be a speedbump if the Space Khan gets rolling.
Mike Dawson - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 08:28:17 EST BJtLvEfC No.751527 Reply
It's a bit harder following the war patch. The hyperlanes only FTL makes defensive stations at bottlenecks extremely potent. A citadel with good buffs, full guns and a bunch of platforms with a fleet parked there will fuck most things up.

OP, firstly ignore Brazil. I mean don't literally ignore him because he keeps dancing IPs. But he's just an attention whore.

Anyway this isn't the most complicated game ever but like DF you need to fail a bit to learn. After a point you'll realise you did something really dumb. Each playthrough try to learn a couple more things and quit a bit later until you win.

For example the other people all had alloys too. Mining stations take energy to upkeep and give you a resource which makes them really good. (they have a couple of downsides I'll get to soon) but you can produce almost everything except a couple of super rare endgame resources (dark matter needs a black hole system for example) on world with the right technology. Most of your production will be on world.

Lets talk jobs and empire management.

You'll notice on a planet you can build two sorts of things. Districts and buildings. Districts are limited by planet size, they increase your empire sprawl. Buildings are limited by your pop on that planet but don't increase sprawl. Both require upkeep so don't over build (well not early on,later on you can afford to be a bit lazy with micromanagement). Both create jobs and/or room for people to live for the large part. Buildings can be upgraded when you unlock techs which usually increases the upkeep but is vital because you have limited building slots and need to get more out of them. There are certain special buildings and buildings with other affects but anyway. Oh and a few rare worlds have limtied resources which let you make buildings which create certain resources without an input of minerals and with lower grade labour, these are as valuable as mining stations with rare resources. Exploit them.

People consume resources to live whatever job they work, however they have a social class. This is determined by their job, unless they're unemployed in which case it will be their most recent job 's class for a while before they get demoted. So people will need food and consumer goods and shit. Robots need energy and minerals. Upgraded buldings often suck down limited resources just to exist but not to produce. You have to then offset these by creating chemical plants, gas refineries and shit. These will then suck up minerals. Don't panic though, the economy is a pyramid really, you'll learn to get the base right in time. It doesn't hurt (at least on the lower difficulties) to build a bit of resilience in and overproduce the lower tier resources. The galactic market lets you divest yourself of stuff you're overproducing and buy things you need it's always alloys so you can build more ships/bigger space stations so it's not a total waste. I'm sure just getting it right is probably more efficient overall but then when you make a dyson sphere 1000 energy a tick is always worth it for the shit you can buy.

People also turn resources into different resources with jobs. Research is a resource, stability and crime reduction is a resource, unity is a resource but so is stuff like alloys, crystals and you can make most of these on world. Your mistake was assuming your enemies needed mines when even you have an alloy plant on world.

Early on your primary world needs to produce everything, as you expand the new planets will need propping up but again should eventually become self sufficient. However specialising worlds past the very early game is a strong tactic. look at the modifiers and districts for a world before deciding it's fate. When expanding remember your sprawl. As your empire becomes bigger beyond a certain size, unity and tech projects (and leaders) get more expensive. If you play smart you can easily outstrip these penalties by expanding but consider them. And here's the downside to mining stations. Every planet, every district but also every system boosts sprawl. Taking crappy systems early on is a good way to slow down tech progress for 2 minerals. However they are also the easiest way to get a few extra crystals.

Also upkeep, naval units require upkeep in energy but also alloys. That's why everyone starts with a plant! Otherwise their navy would be unsustainable. Alloys are only an early game bottleneck though so be careful. When you have a few worlds you should have a few alloy plants.
Mike Dawson - Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:41:58 EST BJtLvEfC No.751536 Reply
Sorry for the multiposting, when the server shit a brick I ghostposted. nb this time
Dregs - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:04:52 EST Pzo7k+yX No.751568 Reply
Technically, everyone has alloy. The AI just didn't have any for the first 40 years of the game because they were giving it all to me. But today they patched the trading exploit I was using to learn the game, and now I'm running a terrible deficit on everything. And to fix that, I'd have to declare war on someone. But I can't declare war on anyone without closing half my branch offices, which would really ruin my economy and diplomatic power. So GG on that one. I learned that habitats are not an acceptable substitute for planets because habitats don't get generator districts, and cost upkeep in alloys and power as well.

10k was a huge fleet for the first 20 years. I knew that wasn't big, but it was 10 times the size of anyone elses. My largest fleet, powered by all the galaxy's resources was 40k. I turned Space Khan off. And I was playing as voidborn to speed up research, but that proved to be my downfall. Half my 380 pop were robots, which really cut into my energy profits.
Jago - Wed, 15 Apr 2020 19:00:16 EST BJtLvEfC No.751573 Reply
Well as I said you learned a lot. A lot more than I did in my first few games.

Yeah 10K in 20 years is really good. Though that's about the point when everyone else gets serious but they go from 1K to 3K quickly then not 10. Playing non megacorp gives you the "vanilla" experience as corps play very differently and work best doing weird shit like owning a single ecumenopolis and turning everyone into sex slaves. I know that for normal empires being aggro early is effective. Megacorps suffer much worse sprawl so they might not be able to play wide as well as everyone else I'm not sure. I think you still do, you just make your systems count more.

If you want to avoid managing factions for influence and shit just play gestalt but without any special types like devouring swarm. That's basically the simplest playstyle. Playing a normal empire without any game changing traits (anything that says it limits diplomatic options or has a penalty will warp your playstyle) is a good way to get a feel for the game before trying all the other playstyles and they all have their own tactics, problems and even flavour text, being rogue caretakers when I absorbed a vassal the leader would say "It's been a long time since I had a vacation, sure" also I got the retirement home achievement because the fallen empire took a big dislike to me but I had loads of science and defenses and was able to match their fleets, which meant they crumbled on my citadels, steal their tech and then very quickly put them on vacation. But even then there's tonne of variation between the ethics.

Habitats are good for boosting science and trade or processing basic resources but they don't provide basic resources. They're essentially the higher level of the pyramid and you've got too light a base.
Tomba - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 09:02:14 EST NP/wAswC No.751598 Reply
its not a 4x game tho
its grand strategy

and its actually pretty simple compared to something like Victoria II
Dregs - Thu, 16 Apr 2020 10:23:53 EST BmETl52y No.751601 Reply
1587047033370.png -(284290B / 277.63KB, 453x589) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>Not a 4x game

>Simple compared to Vic II
Yeah, I know. And it's still pretty complex for a person whose closest experience to this is Civilization and Total War. Which are the least complicated of the 4x games. This is like dipping my toes into the pool before I dive into Crusader Kings.
Claptrap - Fri, 17 Apr 2020 19:06:29 EST QG2iKnqT No.751650 Reply
It's a really shitty 4x game that uses the combat and more of the system of Sins of a Solar Empire which itself was just barely a 4x and more just an RTS with a really big map and really slow drawn out gameplay. I'm not even sure if SoaSE could be properly called a 4x game.

Also Stellaris is shit and so is Paradox. It's an indie level title with the usual Paradox DLC bullshit.
Gruntilda - Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:28:46 EST z0FxosX5 No.751679 Reply
Name the space thing Bubbles that's all you need to know.
Marc Kai - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 04:28:29 EST ywB+LYdD No.751779 Reply
> It's an indie level title
"It's not a real game unless it's AAA."
You're a joke, m8.
Dregs - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:50:00 EST BmETl52y No.751785 Reply
I'm guessing this guy bought Stellaris when it came out and is now mad that they've been rebalancing the game to work well with the DLC, changing the base game entirely and cutting out a lot of features that took away from gameplay value.

The most common gripe is that they changed how space travel works so you're mostly forced to use the hyperlanes. This is a good change. Used to be the forgotten empire would wake up and immediately warp to your capital. Instant loss. It was a dark time with little strategy. Things are better now.
Dregs - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 07:50:42 EST BmETl52y No.751786 Reply
I will name the space amoeba bubbles. Bubbles is a good battleship.
Hope Estheium - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:11:22 EST BJtLvEfC No.751788 Reply
Yeah it's difficult because the game barely resembles what was originally bought. I personally think the changes are great but I can understand people who are frustrated by that.

The DLC is ridiculous but then you get hundreds of hours out of this game if you buy it and play a bunch every time a significant DLC gets added. If you have to start from new that's harsh because you won't get to learn the game again 10 times so buy that shit in sale/bundles.

Also I've got an achievement that 0.3% of the playerbase have (or had at the time) for being a rogue servitor and having 3 or more (about 300 in the end) fallen (awakened lol) empire pops as bio trophies (it's not hard, just niche) but I've never recruited bubbles. I did successfully hug and pamper the galaxy though. Hooray for me. Hooray for those lovely bio life forms!
Dregs - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:30:28 EST BmETl52y No.751790 Reply
Huh. I think I'm going to kidnap some fallen empires, then. I found a nice strategy to get ahead on research and early pop growth with ring world and rogue servitor. Each "willing participant" in your bio domes increases building speed of drones by 0.25%. You can fit 240 biotrophies in a ring section and still profit. So I take good care of my first biotrophies while I search for other empires instead of trying to focus on surveying for more planets. By the time I've found another empire I usually have Nihilistic acquisition, and they don't have much of a defense. So I go around kidnapping as many people as possible at the start, using the research district for it's insane potential (3200 of each research if you fill the jobs) and end up with 60% faster droid building speed. That lets me rush megastructures, and eventually the whole galaxy is on a single ring world.
Haohmaru - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:52:35 EST 85HW7dzr No.751791 Reply
game is pretty easy after a few hundred hours - it's hard not to cheese things. Though it's also a game that provides you stuff to do right up until the point you're deciding on your own goals, and then only interrupts rudely with ABSOLUTE CATASTROPHE every once in a while. You can snowball, but as far as i'm aware there's a few checks that actually make either elevating or conquering neighbours worthwhile. That being said, playing tall is at a disadvantage with the changes to admin whatever, which sucks. Incredibly fun game, but as OP says, take it as it comes rather than seeing it as mad competitive because the AI will have you slamming your head on a table, though it is MUCH better than before the last expansion - one war doesn't end their ability to cope. tis good shit, hit me up on the 420chan discord if you ever fancy a multiplayer game, though I'm not gonna say what my name is on there so you'll have to spam everyone
Dregs - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:33:00 EST BmETl52y No.751792 Reply
Unless you use a meme easy start like ring world, playing tall is no longer much of an option. They've changed the hyperlanes to include more choke points, and you won't find the planets you need to survive if you don't expand quickly.

Elevating species gives you a ton of science and an automatic neighbour and or slave. The main advantage to me for having an ally is that I won't have to watch one border so much and I can expand in the other direction while paying him to fight people on the other side of us off. I don't want to manage a war on two fronts. Much better to just expand and give the ally some resources to keep the party going. Until they're the only one left, and when I came for the others they didn't say anything, so off to the bio domes it is. Now to planet crack every habitable planet to make sure they can't leave the ring worlds, and the Benevolent Pacification can consider this a win for organics and robots alike.
Franziska Von Karma - Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:51:11 EST BNWDQryX No.751822 Reply
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More importantly, how do you make Stellaris not run like shit in the late game? I haven't finished a campaign after 122 hours, because it eventually slows to a crawl even on the smallest galaxy setting.
James Earl Cash - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:26:29 EST BJtLvEfC No.751843 Reply
Not really. Play a slightly shorter game. I found small galaxies were fine but I have a high end PC. They keep optimising it but it's the number of pops.

The following will work but it's just avoiding the real issue.
>crack lots of planets
>take over worlds and limit population growth
>finish earlier
>super low habitable world density

Though finishing earlier is worth it tbh. If you can hold a third of the galaxy against all comers and expand to half, the next 150 years you probably won't get the whole thing but you also have won. You don't need to play on if you're on top after the endgame crisis so if there's regularly centuries left and you're well ahead limit the time. Few habitable planets will change the feel of the game a lot too as it forces everyone tall. It will make megastructures much stronger.
Roy - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:17:00 EST c7eTH2ah No.751859 Reply
No. Stardrive 2 is a indie title and it's actually really great game. I accidentally an word. Problem is, Stellaris itself sells itself as some borderline triple A bullshit except because of Paradox bullshit on top of that it has hundreds of dollars in DLC (that you need). So it has below indie level production values and polish despite selling itself as what $40-60 US and that's with it missing like fucking everything.

I'm not asking for even Endless Space 2 grade. I'm just asking it to not look like complete shit if they're gouging me like that.

Each 4x title has got like two to three times as many ship models btw. Even actual indie titles, like Endless Space 1, which was absolutely fantastic as well as being innovative. It has all these ship models and every last one is unique for each race and you get each and every race and there's like dozen races. Can you guess how much ES1 costs?

Can you guess how much Stellaris costs?
Still fucking $40 and you get exactly 7 different races ultimately.

Oh but look at this bullshit
So okay you can spend more money and get grand total of ten now apparently. Can you guess how much their DLC costs? $170.00. Most of which you'll need to just make it fucking playable. And I mean just look at this shit
That's what their models look like. SoaSE looked better and it's ancient relative to Stellaris

Basically those Swedes just totally ripped off SoaSE and made some really dumbed down GSG that overcharges way too much for delivering far too little. I promptly uninstalled it after playing for several hours.
Roy - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:22:46 EST c7eTH2ah No.751860 Reply
I've sunk hundreds of hours into each of multiple different 4x games. Paradox is a shit company that makes garbage overrated by the same kinds of idiots who solely like things like 40K or Starship Troopers because they take it at face value as agreeing with their fascism.

Nope I pirated Stellaris a year or two ago and was totally unimpressed with it. I have no idea why anybody would openly defend Paradox for their completely shitty business practices. It's like defending EA's decisions to put microtransactions in Dead Space 3 or whatever unbelievably retarded faggy bullshit that they do. None of Paradox's DLC is ever actually worth it and the sole reason for even getting it so because the crap they churn out is sometimes borderline unbplayable without spending an extra fifty to hundred dollars on it.

There are so many much better actual 4x games out there. Stellaris is like a 4x game for people who hate 4x games.
James Earl Cash - Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:03:39 EST BJtLvEfC No.751862 Reply
There is a lot of shit DLC but the actual content has been good. Most of the overhauls have come free with options locked behind the DLCs but the changes to rules included in the base game.

Maybe it's a shitty model but here's the thing. I got my money's worth it worked for me. You're really angry so evidently you didn't.

The cosmetic shit you're bitching about is entirely true but most people don't care. In terms of actual gameplay you custom build every race so
>7 different races
Is purely flavour. Mechanically you get all the combinations of ethics, plus then 2 civics, plus then the racial traits. I mean broadly speaking a lot of combos play pretty similarly but you scratch build your race. I mean you can use a premade but you can scratch build.

>cosmetics are playable races
>updates to mechanics are DLC only

Have you actually played stellaris? Your post reads like you just read the steam page and assumed the worst. I'm starting to think you're talking about a game you either haven't bought or played a long time ago. Or maybe I am just misunderstanding you.

You are right about one thing though. I think it is for people who aren't into 4x. There are tonnes of flaws you can pick with the game and it's not for everyone. But you've picked up on one and even then you seem to be wide of the mark
>Poor optimisation late game
>micromanagement of pops past early game and pop growth get silly
>still can't build tall unless you force the settings
>multiplayer is basically just be aggressive
>yes the ship models are limited and a bit rubbish

The latest patch was supposed to fix the following issue so I don't know if it's a problem but before they added the federations patch
>allies are useless and when you play xenophile you'll end up next to 3 xenophobes with the other xenophiles fanatically opposing any other ethics you picked. Alies make a mess of war and so in the end it's easier just to go alone.
Garrett - Thu, 23 Apr 2020 22:56:19 EST T6MhRsNG No.751894 Reply

I really do wish Paradox would just go straight and say "listen our games will take longer to make but we will ship a fully 100 percent complete game and it will cost 120 dollars as a specialty product because we have a niche audience". I feel like they wouldn't get a fraction of the hate that they do.
Nodunaga Oda - Fri, 24 Apr 2020 04:09:39 EST c7eTH2ah No.751903 Reply
The different options are equivalent to different races in any real 4x game.
>muh customization
This is the excuse most people make and it is unbelievably shallow. Galciv 3 has more traits. Stardock 2 has way more traits. You can customize a race in Endless Space 2 and that has not just more but more interesting traits.

Every single thing about it is absolutely shallow as all fuck with the sole exception of portraits. Even the background screens are just lazy as fuck and iirc unbelievably minimal.

Whenever anybody says "customization" they're literally talking about the portraits. This is because these people think shallowly and take it at face value. I am directly criticizing the game for its overall shallowness and lack of depth all over the place which I also noticed how limited company building screens were. The whole experience felt like nothing but a lazy as shit ripoff of SoaSE and because of that I am going to directly judge its DLC bullshit even more harshly than I normally would. Oh. And flags. Yeah you get to make a custom flag.

Look if you like it that's fine you do you. Just know that it is the top 3 worst 4xish games I ever played. Soundtrack was boring. There's just nothing there. I know you can't really judge 4x games by that amount of time but I couldn't force myself to keep playing it after like 4.5 hours or whatever.
Pac-Man - Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:53:57 EST BJtLvEfC No.751911 Reply
Rather than dismissing you and saying you haven't played enough to understand what you're talking about (though enough to know you hate the game and didn't enjoy it and hopefully you got the refund) I'll explain why I feel that way.

Traits are just little tweaks. They're not the customisation but the final fine tuning tweak. You have missed the actual major stuff. When you think customisation ethics should be what comes to mind.

So ethics are your playstyle. They close and open paths and playstyles. Xenophiles can't enslave aliens unless they're also authoritarians then they can enslave everyone. Pacifists can't have declare offensive wars but they grow fucking fast in peace. Spiritualists love unity but not robots, materialists can easily avoid and AI uprising but will shun pyschics. You can change your ethics mid game, it's not necessarily easy but you and AI factions can and will. You could start pacifist, grow, chafe with your annoying allies and drop it for xenophobia or militarism or whatever. Assuming you have the appropriate political factions in place so you can "ascend them". There's also AI and hiveminds. These styles all play differently, you don't take a single ethic so the interaction creates a few more approaches that will play differently (though not every combo is materially different).

Then you have civics, civics are mostly significant nationwide bonuses that can sometimes just boost but some change your play. Most further entrench your playstyle some create a new more extreme version. If you're super xenophillic and militariistic fanatical purifier is there, if you're egalitarian as fuck you can play as shared burdens communists, if you're pacifist but also xenophobic you can play inward perfectionism and so on.

Traits affect just one race and unless you're fanatic purifier you will have migrants/conquered slave races, you can gene mode so traits are also malleable and you can abandon them entirely. Traits are bonuses, you can gene mod and allocate people using castes or whatever if you're a min maxer or just slap generic upgrades on your whole population once the gene point total rises.

Now maybe that's less specific and characterful than your other XXXX games but Stellaris thematically tries to touch on every space sci fi idea so it's trying to be generic. Does it suffer for that? Depends who you ask.

If you want to play something halfway between civ level grand strategy and XXXX and get your toes wet it's the best. If you are a proper XXXX enthusiast (that's the word I typed, not a burn) then sure maybe its lame but Paradox found their mark with this one. People who want a sci fi game with about the depth of civ (though the rulers feel less like bots gaming their own rules).

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