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420chan is Getting Overhauled - Changelog/Bug Report/Request Thread (Updated July 26)

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Ranting

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- Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:04:36 EST OEScMBdD No.6294524
File: 1568131476970.png -(134591B / 131.44KB, 366x366) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Ranting
A little thought on something I think would help the wrestling business as a whole.

This wink wink garbage, this "we're actors/performing artists playing a character" faggotry needs to end. Carry your fucking selves like the fucking stars you wanna be. You don't need to go 100% "oh wrestling IS REAL and SRS BSNSS" but dont say anything that compromises your character either. It's a fine line most guys dont bother TRYING to walk.

Look at Steve Austin as an example. It's hard to tell when he's working or when he's being serious. He found that balance and keeps it to this day.

Everyone needs to find that balance and not embarrass themselves and the sport.
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 12:20:38 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294529 Reply
Hear, hear! "Performance artists" need to take themselves back to the art houses, coffee shops, and street corners from whence they came.
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A.J. Styles - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:24:12 EST x6BN3rA/ No.6294549 Reply
>regurgitating Cornette talking points and trying to present them as your own original thoughts that you totally came up with on your own
Enn pee see shit
Think for yourself
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:29:25 EST It2BUKqt No.6294556 Reply
>>6294555
>Cornette is right about most things

Cornette has an opinion about most things. Whether that opinion is “right” is subjective.
>>
A.J. Styles - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:31:16 EST x6BN3rA/ No.6294559 Reply
>>6294555
Learn to think for yourself drone.
If you can that is.
I know some dullards need everything spoon fed to them and be told what to think k
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Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:33:05 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294560 Reply
>>6294549
>trying to present them as your own

At no point did he do that. OP posted a pic of Cornette, and only said he thought it would help the business as a whole, not that he thought it up. Regardless of the origin of the complaint, it's a valid one worthy of discussion without invoking banned acronyms (the use of which indicates that you aren't completely thinking for yourself, btw).

Wrestlers shedding their gimmick names when away from the ring just diminishes them and their colleagues. It may not seem like a big deal now, but it's the type of thing that erodes. The longer wrestlers keep doing it the more the disconnect will work against them.
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:38:34 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294562 Reply
>>6294555
What's pathetic about the state of discussion here is that whether you mentioned Cornette or not, he's so embedded in the minds of his critics that that was where this thread was headed anyway.

His detractors want to shout him down, paint him as racist/transphobic/islamophobic, and discredit him, when the best thing they could do is stop listening, stop replying, and stop hanging on his every word. Acting "gotten to" just validates Cornette, his approach, and those who parrot him just to get a rise.
>>
Brian Gewirtz - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:42:22 EST ls4nXmMN No.6294563 Reply
I don't get the whole "real name and working name, I'm an ARTIST" nonsense going along now.i don't quite hate it, but I don't actually understand it.

But what I actually do hate is how a lot of spots just look like two people helping each other through their motions. Looks like a circus act rather than a wrestling match. A guy like Dean Malenko would do these spots 25 years ago and it didn't look like the two person act like it does now
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:53:35 EST It2BUKqt No.6294566 Reply
>>6294563
>I don't get the whole "real name and working name, I'm an ARTIST" nonsense going along now.

At least part of it is rooted in name ownership — specifically, how some companies own what we can call stage names (e.g., WWE). By using their real names on social media, a wrestler can sidestep some of that bullshit.

I’m not on either side of the debate about whether this is a good thing; I can understand both the detractors and the supporters, but taking a position on it would feel like dictating how all wrestlers should act on social media (or outside of the “stage”, so to speak). What works for one wrestler — what they’re comfortable with doing — won’t necessarily work for all wrestlers. They should each get to make up their own mind on the matter, not have shit dictated to them by fans, promoters, or Jim Cornette.
>>
Sylvain Grenier - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 13:54:09 EST ooxghLVe No.6294567 Reply
I'm sorry but I could not give any less of a fuck what a wrestler calls themselves on twitter or if they maintain kayfabe outside of shows. The idea that you should always be in character is so old fashioned and is a relic of that carny "working the marks" logic.

It seems absurd that people get angry about this sort of thing tbh. Get a grip.
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:15:10 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294570 Reply
>>6294567
>I'm sorry but I could not give any less of a fuck what a wrestler calls themselves on twitter or if they maintain kayfabe outside of shows

Social media is still media, and the very same wrestlers, if they do appearances outside of shows on the local news or a podcast or whatever it may be, they do so under their gimmick name. When they sign an autograph, they sign their gimmick name. Twitter and Instagram are part of their public persona, and when your public persona has two names it may confuse or frustrate people.

It's not a major complaint or really a problem right now at all, but if it keeps up and lasts a generation the incongruity will wear down those mark-iest of marks who don't want their headcanon-kayfabe constantly being told it's all BS. I personally don't like it because as much as anything it ruins it for the wrestlers who are trying to keep a degree of kayfabe alive and over time nobody will even bother at all anymore. I'll be dead by then, but think of the children.
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Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:26:09 EST It2BUKqt No.6294574 Reply
>>6294570
>it ruins it for the wrestlers who are trying to keep a degree of kayfabe alive

Yeah, and Johnny Depp not doing all his interviews as the character he’s playing in his most recent film is totally destroying movie magic~.
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:47:43 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294581 Reply
>>6294574
I know the argument you're making, it's well-worn, but wrestling is not movies. Johnny Depp doesn't do radio interviews or public signings as Jack Sparrow. Wrestlers, despite the exposed business, still do. The conventions of wrestling are the conventions of wrestling. To fans and wrestlers who want to abide them, those want to throw them all to the wind are hurt them and their ability to enjoy and entertain.

And again, in regards to fans who could be lost to this trend, I'm talking about those who more or less want wrestling to be real. They're a real demographic, one that pays, and one that includes children, and one that's worldwide. You don't want to disengage those people.
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 14:56:45 EST It2BUKqt No.6294583 Reply
>>6294581
>I'm talking about those who more or less want wrestling to be real. They're a real demographic, one that pays, and one that includes children, and one that's worldwide. You don't want to disengage those people.

By the same token, you’d be insulting their intelligence to keep acting as if the whole thing is real, including when wrestlers are “offstage”. Wrestling is the same thing as movies, in that regard. We don’t ask Chris Evans to do press tour interviews as Captain America; why should we ask Trevor Mann to do radio interviews as his character (Ricochet)?

Maybe you don’t have a problem with that. And I can understand that; it’s not something that would rub everyone the wrong way. But it’s something I have a bit of an issue with, even if I’m willing to let it slide because it is generally inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.
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Matt Striker - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:02:36 EST tsNg5/qg No.6294585 Reply
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I don't really give a shit what a wrestler does on social media, and I haven't really seen wrestlers say "we're just actors" while being on-screen. I do however think that the value that wrestlers gain from tweeting in terms of exposure is highly overrated, especially for wrestlers that are already appearing regularly on TV. Seems like they are more likely to just expose themselves as dumbasses given past examples.

I totally agree with Cornette however about overly blatant performance art inside the ring. Stuff like mirrored/synchronized tag teams spots takes me out of it. It's impressive from an execution standpoint but it doesn't allow me to suspend my disbelief unless it looks sufficiently like a coincidence. But if matches are just big choreographed spot after spot, like Lucha Bros/Young Bucks, I lose interest. I on some level respect the effort that goes into that kind of performance, but it just doesn't interest me on an emotional level.
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:08:21 EST It2BUKqt No.6294588 Reply
>>6294585
>that whole second paragraph

See, this is something worth getting into a discussion about. (And for the record, I happen to agree. Sync spots can work if they’re done once in a while, and only once - maybe twice - in a match. But constant sync spots tend to make me stop giving a shit about a match unless the match is good enough outside of those spots.)
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:30:10 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294593 Reply
>>6294583
>We don’t ask Chris Evans to do press tour interviews as Captain America; why should we ask Trevor Mann to do radio interviews as his character (Ricochet)?

I already answered that. It's called "convention." The conventions of how wrestlers and proper actors present themselves in public has always differed. You're fundamentally off-base by thinking they're the same. Nobody is asking Richochet to not be Ricochet; that's how he promotes and presents himself in all public venues. Twitter and Instagram are public venues as well.

I'm not even saying changing a convention is bad, but by flouting it, you disenfranchise those who respect it, and disengage those want it. It's not insulting to people's intelligence to give them what they want and expect. Taking a Rian Johnson approach to wrestling isn't going to do it anymore favors than it did Star Wars.
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Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:38:35 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294595 Reply
1568144315605.jpg -(27746B / 27.10KB, 400x280) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6294585
>I haven't really seen wrestlers say "we're just actors" while being on-screen

Lucky you.

>I totally agree with Cornette however about overly blatant performance art inside the ring

It's hard not to. It's all a matter of fan engagement. Anything in or out of the ring that makes fans lose interest is bad. When wrestlers create that disconnect they risk not re-engaging, and anybody trying to make a lot of money should want to minimize those chances.
>>
Mr. Anderson - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:48:03 EST cfOXxE22 No.6294597 Reply
>>6294595
>Lucky you.

If you're referring to the pic you posted, that was done because an actual far right wacko (Glenn Beck) was using the Swagger/Dutch Mantell storyline for attention and to further his own goals.

No shit they wanted to nip that in the bud
>>
Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 15:58:27 EST It2BUKqt No.6294604 Reply
>>6294593
>I'm not even saying changing a convention is bad, but by flouting it, you disenfranchise those who respect it, and disengage those want it. It's not insulting to people's intelligence to give them what they want and expect.

By the same token, examining why that convention might be outdated and in need of change, or how an audience might be better off if someone challenges the common wisdom of that convention, is neither bad nor insulting to one’s intelligence. The convention need not change immediately — or at all — for people to challenge whether the convention needs to change (or go away). And it isn’t some grand offense if someone who would normally follow that convention decides to stop doing so. After all, “it’s always been done this way” is one of the most dangerous phrases in English. If we can’t examine, challenge, and even outright defy tradition, we’ll become slaves to what is little more than peer pressure from dead people.
>>
Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:09:59 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294609 Reply
>>6294604
Like I said, I'm not (and never was) saying changing a convention is bad. It's the flouting of conventions that causes the immediate turn-off for a segment of viewers, and if the change isn't for the better, then no matter how it comes about it can hurt business down the road.

It's also silly that this is the convention to flout. You want wrestlers to be like actors? You want them to have stage names instead of ring names? Join the Screen Actor's Guild or, better yet, create a Pro Wrestler's Union. If the use of real names alongside ring names came with a healthcare plan and retirement pension, the Cornette's of the world would be pull a 180 and shower this generation of wrestlers with praise for finally getting it done.
>>
Drew Gulak - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:11:46 EST OEScMBdD No.6294613 Reply
I don't think it's insulting to try and find a balance and not say anything that might compromise your gimmick but maybe that's just me. And it probably is hard if it's an outlandish thing like Rosemary or Undertaker but meh
>>
Mike Tenay - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:16:06 EST o7tMi7Jn No.6294615 Reply
>>6294613
Rosemary keeps a kind of kayfabe on Twitter and tries to jive it with real life happenings and honestly it just makes me amazing hard.
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Freehaven !zWb42fBPMM - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:18:26 EST It2BUKqt No.6294616 Reply
>>6294609
>if the change isn't for the better, then no matter how it comes about it can hurt business down the road

We can’t know if a change is for the better if we don’t even let the change happen or we think the change is automatically bad only because it’s change.

>You want wrestlers to be like actors? You want them to have stage names instead of ring names? Join the Screen Actor's Guild or, better yet, create a Pro Wrestler's Union.

I don’t understand why wrestlers using their real names on social media should be predicated only on whether the wrestler is part of a union. You’re gonna need to explain that logic, because I can’t think of any way to parse it without my brain going BSOD on me.
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Steve The Turtle Weiner - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:18:32 EST b6Ee22oP No.6294617 Reply
Imagine waiting for wrestling to get good again
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Devon - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 16:28:52 EST pEXfIRkf No.6294621 Reply
>>6294616
>I don’t understand why wrestlers using their real names on social media should be predicated only on whether the wrestler is part of a union. You’re gonna need to explain that logic, because I can’t think of any way to parse it without my brain going BSOD on me.

Just a tangent. I should've separated it from the other thought. You brought the tired Hollywood comparison in earlier, so I assumed you wanted wrestlers to be more like actors. Unionizing and getting on the same page collectively would get them there faster than creating confusion in regards to their individual personas needlessly.
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Magnus - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 17:00:51 EST bpwUf1a3 No.6294641 Reply
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>>6294617
wrestling has been amazing since at least 2011
wwe isn't everything
>>
Yoshi Tatsu - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 17:32:26 EST SjIU5GRF No.6294663 Reply
>>6294555
1 third of his criticisms are legit, 1 third are enthusiastic nitpicks and 1 third are him not understanding modern wrestling.
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Jon Bolen - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 18:46:10 EST oOLczIsv No.6294704 Reply
Gimmicks just need to be played straight. I think Orange Cassidy does this well. Save the *wink wink* stuff for when people know your shtick. Just my onion.
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Mike Tenay - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 19:04:42 EST o7tMi7Jn No.6294711 Reply
>>6294709
I mean it's a subjective thing anyway, so if he feels whatever wrestling he has been watching since 2011 is great then you can't really say his opinion is "wrong." It's an opinion not a fact.
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Shuri - Tue, 10 Sep 2019 22:11:01 EST OEScMBdD No.6294814 Reply
1568167861149.jpg -(75802B / 74.03KB, 600x447) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6294704
>Gimmicks just need to be played straight.

Yeah.

> I think Orange Cassidy does this well.

NO, what the

Orange Cassidy is the type of garbage I'm talking about when I mention wink wink nonsense
>>
The People - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 00:18:38 EST T3pNx6NP No.6294886 Reply
>>6294814
>Orange Cassidy is the type of garbage I'm talking about when I mention wink wink nonsense
You're a fucking idiot. OC's shtick isn't "wink wink nonsense". His entire gimmick is that he's a relaxed, down to earth guy who doesn't put in effort until he absolutely has to. Nobody sells his kicks as legitimate offense outside of commentary, and even then that's them playing along with the joke instead of selling it as legit. People need to stop latching onto one aspect of OC's stuff and look at the bigger picture, a picture that's openly out there for people to see.
>>
Masa Takanashi - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:27:45 EST Kk5J+mkY No.6294924 Reply
Why are people parroting the worthless opinions of a white supremacist?

Yes, he hates Nick Gage, but alt right key figures Peterson and Shapiro also criticize Nick Gage. It is a dogwhistle to make people think he isn't an alt right curtain jerker who spreads stochastic terrorism.
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Jerry Lynn - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:40:10 EST VsqIuhiU No.6294927 Reply
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The fact that Cornette is still able to work people into a raging fit just by repeating the same opinion he's held over the years just in a different way proves that he is one of the best heels that has ever entered the business. No one else from his generation has managed to stay relevant as well as he has (arguably) and that really says something
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Masa Takanashi - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:52:26 EST Kk5J+mkY No.6294929 Reply
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>>6294927
The fact that Nick Gage is still able to work people into a raging fit just by repeating the same opinion he's held over the years just in a different way proves that he is one of the best heels that has ever entered the business. No one else from his generation has managed to stay relevant as well as he has (arguably) and that really says something
>>
El Santo - Wed, 11 Sep 2019 12:14:59 EST 8HYbkOIp No.6295013 Reply
>>6294927
Nobody in his generation really uses the Twitter machine like he does, either.

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