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WWE RAW Sets New Record Low Viewership

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- Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:06:28 EST bfTBZuZn No.6347175
File: 1579039588823.png -(405898B / 396.38KB, 600x335) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. WWE RAW Sets New Record Low Viewership
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/01/wwe-raw-sets-new-record-low-viewership-with-major-college-664852/
Monday's WWE RAW episode, featuring the first-ever Fist Fight main event with Big Show, Kevin Owens and Samoa Joe vs. Seth Rollins and The Authors of Pain, >drew an average of 2.030 million viewers on the USA Network,
according to Showbuzz Daily.

This is down 15% from last week's 2.385 million viewers for the first episode of 2020.
>This is the lowest viewership since the December 23 taped Christmas Week show, which drew 1.835 million viewers.
>This is also a new non-holiday low for RAW.

>For this week's show, the first hour drew 2.218 million viewers (last week's hour 1 - 2.550 million),
>the second hour drew 2.059 million viewers (last week's hour 2 - 2.409 million)
>and the final hour drew 1.814 million viewers (last week's hour 3 - 2.195 million).

>This is the third-lowest third hour viewership of all-time, including holiday episodes.

>College football dominated the night on cable TV. RAW was #15 for the night in viewership on cable, behind 5 airings of college football on ESPN, SportsCenter at midnight, ESPN's Championship Drive, The Five, Special Report, Tucker Carlson Tonight, The Story, Hannity, Rachel Maddow Show, and The Ingraham Angle.
>WWE ranked #9 for the night on the Cable Top 150 with an average 18-49 demographic rating of 0.61, behind the 5 college football airings, SportsCenter at midnight, SportsCenter at 1am, and Championship Drive. The 5 airings of college football on ESPN drew right under 75 million viewers together. The Clemson vs. LSU 8:19pm airing topped the night with a 7.49 rating in the 18-49 demographic, and just over 25 million viewers by itself.

The Bachelor on ABC drew 5.374 million viewers on broadcast TV in the 8pm hour while The Neighborhood drew 4.675 million viewers on CBS, the American's Got Talent Champions show drew 6.521 million viewers on NBC, 911 drew 2.549 million viewers on Fox and CW's Flash drew 602,000 viewers, all in the 8pm hour on broadcast TV.
>>
Awesome Kong - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:18:39 EST OEScMBdD No.6347182 Reply
Anxiously waiting for the complete sub 2k

Though that may not happen until December
>>
El Hijo del Tirantes - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:25:31 EST bxHCEJ7+ No.6347186 Reply
>>6347182
Maybe in 2022 or something. This downfall is happening very slowly.
>>
GENTARO - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:28:13 EST nAjBu3JF No.6347187 Reply
I have nothing to say at this point. This is just embarrassing. I'm going to laugh it it and that's it.
>>
Shannon Moore - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:37:01 EST AN6ZLj+v No.6347190 Reply
Weird how everyone here cares about total viewership but on Thursday its MUH DEMO
>>
Awesome Kong - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:39:14 EST OEScMBdD No.6347191 Reply
>>6347190
My final conclusion is that some people like NXT and some people like AEW. Literally no one likes Raw.
>>
Ric Flair - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:40:44 EST 4phVRJ5N No.6347192 Reply
>>6347190
Your point would be much stronger if RAW's demos weren't also shit
>>
Jimmy Uso - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:45:39 EST jEGuiRVR No.6347195 Reply
>LOLWWE just can't stop losing!
AEW should have gone Monday nights. They'd probably get at least 300-400k less viewers but imagine them taking 500k off RAW. LOLWWE would be literally doing TNA on Spike numbers.
>>
Mikey Whipwreck - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:50:34 EST FHJjOjBx No.6347196 Reply
1579042234436.jpg -(16852B / 16.46KB, 307x403) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
The fact that there's always a huge drop for 3rd hour should give them a hint that it's too long
>>
Shu Shibutani - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:01:44 EST BxsoGG2K No.6347199 Reply
>>6347196
they've known for the last 7.5 years. they don't care because money.
>>
Superstar Billy Graham - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:11:33 EST n668Xxlt No.6347201 Reply
>>6347182
If the Wrestlemania build is bad, a lot of fans are going to quit watching in April/May. Post-wrestlemania was when WWE's audience really fell off-the-cliff, from the normal 10% decreases to 35% year-over-year.
>>
Superstar Billy Graham - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:14:04 EST n668Xxlt No.6347203 Reply
>>6347190
It would be more of a story for Raw if Raw's viewership wasn't disproprtionately 50+, and if they could draw an audience at all in 18-49. Their 18-49 numbers are so bad it's not even worth reporting on, and the overall viewership is what USA Network cares about because that's what keeps their network rating afloat, not individual demo ratings.
>>
Superstar Billy Graham - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:15:45 EST n668Xxlt No.6347204 Reply
>>6347196
They know that, or you'd have to hope they do. The extra $200 million per year for Raw's 3rd hour is why it's still there.
>>
>>
Johnny Grunge - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:23:21 EST IAs11vJ5 No.6347207 Reply
Lol WWE heading into Royal Rumble and nobody gives a shit.
>>
Major DeBeers - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:35:16 EST 9krVcjgU No.6347208 Reply
Caring about Raw ratings as a casual fan has to be only one step below being a peak pimp.

Too much other shit happening on television last night, it's no surprise people chose to stream Raw later instead of watching it live. Who cares?
>>
Snitsky - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:43:12 EST V5YlOywL No.6347209 Reply
To be fair... There was a very stacked college football game going for the National Title....

On the flip side, it's still Raw... They know no one was gonna watch except for the hardcores, so they can put on whatever they want. I honestly think Vince is done trying to chase the casual or lapsed fan, and is just holding on hope that the boomers watching will live as long as he does.
>>
Shayne Hawke - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:41:24 EST LI44JGTB No.6347222 Reply
>>6347208
>a peak pimp
Is this a catplanet or are you saying people who care about ratings is a step below being the Godfather?
>>
Slick Johnson - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:48:01 EST J10K+5dU No.6347225 Reply
i really can't wait for wrestling to die

what an embarrassing industry
>>
Vito Thomaselli - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:10:01 EST PM3bHjfJ No.6347236 Reply
I hope Vince lives for a long time so he can kill WWE before trips takes over.
>>
Slick Johnson - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:33:54 EST J10K+5dU No.6347243 Reply
>>6347231

it's people pretending to beat each other up and actually beating each other up in some cases.
>>
Slick Johnson - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:43:46 EST J10K+5dU No.6347246 Reply
>>6347244

no it isnt

the uk fanbase is full of fat goths and when i was in japan it was about as popular and relevant as wwe in the us
>>
>>
Terry Funk - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:54:34 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347249 Reply
Was WCW Nitro near the end getting worse ratings than current Raw?
>>
El Santo - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:23:40 EST g1wrduBH No.6347255 Reply
>>6347246
Are you basing that on stuff you saw on the streets or on what people are saying? I don't know a native Japanese person, but the people that I know who live there say wrestling is a fairly common tropic in the pubs and such. Then again, they usually lived in the villages and suburbs, so maybe it's more popular there.
>>
Shark Girl - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:53:05 EST /u2tNAFe No.6347261 Reply
I have friends and coworkers ask me to keep them up to date on WWE from time to time. They seem interested in it but I tell them not to bother because it's not very good at the moment. Though everytime I bring up the fact that Raw is now 3 hours they really lose interest. I said it the moment they announced 3 hour permanent Raws, that would be a deal breaker for new or lapsed fans.
>>
Prince Devitt - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 23:14:52 EST L3x5ESIU No.6347269 Reply
1579061692465.jpg -(100280B / 97.93KB, 540x540) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>putting big show in main event against huge football championship game
>>
The Dog - Tue, 14 Jan 2020 23:57:05 EST kY08DZ3v No.6347274 Reply
Why the fuck would anywhere care that WWE RAW is too long? You have so much other shit to choose from now that it doesn't fucking matter. They don't give a fuck what the show looks like. Why do you? You literally don't have to watch any of the hours, let alone 3. They are making bank for every hour they produce. If they could sell 4 hour shows they would. Why the FUCK do you care?
>>
Bull Nanako - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 00:33:46 EST KMt8EdDo No.6347279 Reply
>Paul Heyman booked show gets record low ratings, again

When will people admit Vince isn't the problem?
He's clearly not there right now with XFL's launch coming so fast
>>
Tito Santana - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 01:10:21 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347283 Reply
Would you say WWE is worse than 2013-2014 TNA right now?
>>
Domino - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 02:55:10 EST 64716ewP No.6347293 Reply
1579074910824.jpg -(363349B / 354.83KB, 1349x1687) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6347175

Prowrestling is dead guys. Time to make the switch to big boy sports like MMA and Boxing.
>>
Johnny Saint - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 03:36:47 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347297 Reply
>>6347279
>Vince isn't the problem

That's like saying Vince Russo wasn't to blame for Nitro's low ratings in 2000.
>>
Stevie Ray - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 04:34:03 EST 3ZdG/xmH No.6347307 Reply
>>6347175
> OP STILL not getting it yet
Obviously WWE hitting NEW LOWS every single week has become normal for them.
Nobody in their company gives a shit and wants people to stop giving a shit, too.
Dont act surprised by these ratings. None of it matters. They are at their worst, and it’s honestly pretty fucking amusing how many of you try discussing their dumpster fire instead of just admiring it for what it is.
>>
>>
Doink the Clown - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 04:48:57 EST dPAgl6kX No.6347311 Reply
https://www.tpww.net/2019/01/wwe-raw-ratings-jan-14-2019-up/
8PM: 2,775,000
9PM: 2,781,000
10PM: 2,610,000

that's quite a big fall from last year
500K
700K
and a whopping 800K loss for the third hour

I'm expecting an even bigger crash soon, i made some kind of prediction last year that 1st hour numbers would be sub 2mil and 3rd hour would be 1.4mil. Might actually happen soon if the stars align.
>>
Drake Younger - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 05:40:05 EST nAjBu3JF No.6347315 Reply
>>6347311

I really do wonder what the bottoming out number is for WWE. Like some people will just continue to watch this show no matter how shitty it gets. I thought we would have already reached it, but the ratings are still dropping.
>>
Terry Funk - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 05:48:29 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347316 Reply
Compare WWE's falling numbers to WCW's near the end.
>>
Aika Ando - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 05:57:37 EST LUMg+nxK No.6347317 Reply
>>6347315
It's like people who watched WCW until the end

but unlike wwe currently, wcw got better but it was too late
>>
Mitch Ryder - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:17:02 EST l6wIvguW No.6347320 Reply
>>6347297
Russo was the problem. Why? He was the head booker.
Heyman is the head booker of RAW. Since he took over, ratings have gone lower than ever, interest in the product is gone and one of the worst storylines ever happened. People can only ignore it for so long. Heyman is the problem. VKM might not be good either but you can't pin this on him. It's time fans realize Heyman isn't the genius they always thought he was.l
>>
Johnny Saint - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:27:36 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347321 Reply
>>6347320
Heyman has made bad booking decisions in the past as well. Like putting the ECW title on Justin Credible which came off as a big "fuck you" to the most loyal fans who had years invested in the product up to that point and made some people stop watching wrestling forever.
>>
Aika Ando - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:29:24 EST LUMg+nxK No.6347322 Reply
>>6347320
not to mention him having tazz (a wwf wrestler) beat mike awesome (a wcw wrestler) for his ecw title was retarded too, instead of having one of his main eventers beat awesome for the belt
>>
Johnny Saint - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:33:05 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347324 Reply
>>6347323
Had Awesome stayed I bet RVD most likely would have dethroned him.
>>
Aika Ando - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:35:33 EST LUMg+nxK No.6347325 Reply
>>6347324
then why not do that anyway since awesome was already on his way out the door? you have a perfect chance to cement rvd as your top star going forward and you waste it on tazz who just dropped the title shortly afterwords anway
>>
Netjester !AI.skYnEt - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:39:07 EST iLikEToleARn No.6347327 Reply
>>6347326
I prefer one where he got injured during the hogan era but there at the bar.
>>
Aika Ando - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:41:48 EST LUMg+nxK No.6347328 Reply
>>6347326
fair enough, but didn't they have rhyno at the time?

i guess the point is that they buried the title by having two people in the company fight over it, not because of some cross-promotion storyline, but because some petty ass contract nonsense and it just looks really bad on heyman for even going through with it
>>
Johnny Saint - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:44:39 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347329 Reply
>>6347328
Tajiri should have gotten an ECW title reign in 2000. He was the best worker they had.
>>
>>
Mike Adamle - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:52:07 EST U11mFupJ No.6347331 Reply
>>6347175
why don't wrestling fans understand. wrestling will continue to drop in viewership. Wrestling will NEVER be mainstream and 'cool' like it was in the attitude era. its never gonna get popular again. WWE will probably hit current AEW/NXT numbers and than stay around that for it's life time.
>>
Val Venis - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:54:40 EST hQHJKVez No.6347332 Reply
The problem is WWE is not making any new viewers, and the few retards left who still watch it are slowly being killed off by natural selection and not being replaced

The best way WWE could stop the ratings dipping lower would be to send out a letter to their fans telling them not to lick any live electric wires or not step out into traffic before checking what is coming both ways. Wwe relies on the mentally Ill and dumbest people in society to survive
>>
Rey Mysterio - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:25:27 EST UxqzyQxl No.6347338 Reply
>>6347331
who exactly here doesn't understand? all WWE has to do to gain mainstream appeal is to be good, their brand power definitely would allow them to, but as long as Vince is in charge that will never happen, not a conclusion hard to reach. most people know that well enough and don't care since their only concern is for other promotions to be successul, not necessarily mainstream
>>
Mike Adamle - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:38:50 EST U11mFupJ No.6347341 Reply
>>6347338
> all WWE has to do to gain mainstream appeal is to be good,

no. Vince could put out an awesome show every week it still wouldn't gain much viewers or mainstream appeal. because its wrestling. it's not cool anymore
>>
Bullfight Sora - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:43:06 EST kcJxkzQu No.6347342 Reply
>>6347320
this insane crusade is just getting sad, guy

Russo didn't have a brain-addled septuagenarian actually calling the shots. He had his own addled brain to contend with.

>>6347321
How many times must the reasoning behind Credible's ECW Title reign be explained to you Shinya?

>>6347328
>a title is buried 'cause even people from other companies want it

huh?
>>
Stevie Ray - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:44:49 EST 3ZdG/xmH No.6347344 Reply
>>6347341
They have to MAKE it cool again.
#MakeWrestlingCOOLagain thumbs up if you agree
>>
Rey Mysterio - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:46:29 EST UxqzyQxl No.6347345 Reply
>>6347341
things don't just stop being "cool" out of thin air, if wwe is lucky to average 2 milion viewers now its all because the show sucked tremendously for two decades, being bad is literally the only thing thats holding them back
>>
Aika Ando - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:56:45 EST LUMg+nxK No.6347350 Reply
1579093005980.gif -(2612271B / 2.49MB, 269x240) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6347342
>>a title is buried 'cause even people from other companies want it"

thats not necessary what happened

awesome was on his way out to wcw, but he was still ecw champion, granted my memory may be wrong on this part but, heyman made a deal with wcw to plug his final title defense on nitro on ecw tv. fair enough, but wcw reneged on the deal and that did not happen, so heyman asked vince to allow one of his wrestlers, who was tazz, to beat a wcw wrestler for the ECW title, and after the match, awesome didn't even sell the loss, he kinda just fucked off, and tazz lost the belt to dreamer 9 days later, who lost the belt to justin credible the same night

people from the company didn't really want the ecw title, like i said, it wasn't a cross-promotion storyline, it was just heyman looking to stick it to wcw by having one of vince's wrestlers beat one of their wrestlers on his program, but the problem is it didn't get his title or any of his wrestlers over, it just looks petty although wcw was in the wrong too
>>
Electroshock - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:15:17 EST BxsoGG2K No.6347352 Reply
>>6347345
yeah, stuff stops being cool pretty quickly. the effects of that though are a slow hemorrhaging of fans rather than an instant drop. wrestling has only gotten mainstream popular when all the stars aligned in pop culture rather than the wrestling being good.
>>
Mike Adamle - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:22:39 EST U11mFupJ No.6347353 Reply
>>6347345
two decades ago you had stone cold beating his boss in the ring and drinking beer, you had the rock insulting people because of their appearance/sexual orientation, you had women fighting in bra and panties matches. All this stuff that appealed to the male demographic no longer happens and could no longer happen in todays world. Do you think the average wrestling fan in 2000 cared about 'booking' ?
>>
Bullfight Sora - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:27:11 EST kcJxkzQu No.6347355 Reply
>>6347353
>swears & tits are what's missing

reminder that WWF's biggest ratings drop was in 2001-2002 when it still had all of this and was doing a sad Attitude Era retread
>>
Shinya Hashimoto - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:28:40 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347356 Reply
>>6347342
I get why Credible got an ECW title reign but at the same time his whole push came across as a desperate attempt by Paul Heyman to prove that he could get any big league castoff over if he got behind him.
>>
Makoto - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:42:45 EST h+RYg6Rn No.6347358 Reply
>>6347353
>I have not grown or matured since the year 2000.
Way to tell on yourself
>>
Lucky Cannon - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:42:59 EST vCkiVt97 No.6347359 Reply
>>6347341
The Attitude Era (==b) was a key ingredient of the late 90s angsty counterculture. South Park, wrestling, rap metal, slasher movie revival, etc.. Those were the big draws, brother. Once 9/11 happened, the world overall kinda stopped being as into those things and "grew up" due to the looming threat of war, which, coupled with no major wrestling competition to make the shows must-see, caused the viewership drops of 01 and 02.

So yeah, WWE could put on the best possible weekly show they could, but would most likely still lose out to sports, trashy reality shows, political bullshit, and people just shutting it off to watch YouTube videos. No one needs to watch a 3 hour wrestling show live anymore when they can see gif/video highlights of what happened almost instantly on Twitter.
>>
Mike Adamle - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:43:09 EST U11mFupJ No.6347360 Reply
>>6347355
yeah sure, im just saying that those were some of the reasons why it appealed to so many people who watched it and how it couldn't be done now. In todays WWE kofi kingston was WWE champion for like 6 months, he comes to the ring with some unicorn on his titantron throwing pancakes out of his trunks into the crowd. Who does that appeal to apart from children aged 12 or under?
>>
>>
Shinya Hashimoto - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:46:22 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347361 Reply
WWF in 1999 also had a lot of awful stuff as well. Just because WWF was hot that year doesn't automatically mean it was good.
>>
Rey Mysterio - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:06:15 EST UxqzyQxl No.6347363 Reply
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>>6347359
what you said is not entirely false but i feel like pro wrestling as a media unlike the other things you mentioned is fluid enough where its more than possible to adapt it to a more contemporary socio-political setting
an important problem in the wrestling community is that we are used to see the attitude era as un unreachable peak of popularity that can't be matched ever and that the art is condemned to a slow death into irrelevance, when the truth is that different forms of panpomimated fights have existed since the ancient romans in almost every part of the globe and they're hardly gonna go away anytime soon only because the biggest representative in WWE of it did a shit job at capitalizing properly on its mainstream recognition for a few years
>>
Jerrelle Clark - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 10:50:02 EST zJpIeZWH No.6347376 Reply
>>6347363
This. Wrestling is at its best when it holds up a mirror to society. Like AEW or not, you probably have stronger opinions on Darby Allin who has been on TV for less than six months than you do on most people in the WWE midcard who have been on TV for 3+ years. That's because "dumb skater kid" is an archetype people can actually relate to, while "HE LIKES PANCAKES", for instance, is some weird meme that means nothing and you have to like wrestlers for their "real life" social media personas. Elias got over amazingly because "dickhead with a guitar" is something you may actually have encountered in your life, while a fucking "maharadja" is some dumb shit out of childrens' books that it's literally impossible to have anything resembling an emotional relation to.
>>
Bobby The Brain Heenan - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:51:12 EST IVkXBDOB No.6347389 Reply
>>6347249
current RAM would kill for Nitros ratings when it was dying
>>
Vickie Guerrero - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 14:40:54 EST IAs11vJ5 No.6347446 Reply
>>6347376
This is why the undertaker worked. Everyone knows a zombie wizard and that is relatable.
>>
Leticia Kline - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:31:30 EST OkWeYaTt No.6347460 Reply
>>6347446
Well considering the undertaker never drew a dime and tanked mania buy rates when he main evented this doesn't really hold up
>>
Slick Johnson - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:46:21 EST J10K+5dU No.6347467 Reply
This is on top of WWE moving to fuckin BT Sport cause of shit ratings in the UK lol
>>
Brian Pillman - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:38:28 EST wFa9wi8R No.6347489 Reply
>>6347485
It basically just became profitable, extra $15 million a year plus production and rights fees paid. This is hardly ECW's TNN deal anon, they're officially making money.
>>
>>
Mickie James - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 17:33:25 EST BlrIoG3o No.6347521 Reply
>>6347489
just to get technical, i think the extra $15 mil IS the rights fee. $30 mil for production + $15 mil rights fee = the new $45 mil deal.
>>
Jerrelle Clark - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 18:31:31 EST zJpIeZWH No.6347549 Reply
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>>6347446
Well... yes. A giant, undead, unstoppable killer with magical powers is something people could relate to at the time he came around, because it was in the zeitgeist. Here is a thing I recognize, I feel some type of way about that. >>6347446
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 20:08:38 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347618 Reply
What would you rather watch? WWE at its worst or TNA at its worst?
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:12:58 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347676 Reply
I think TNA at its absolute worst had more awful wrestlers on their roster than WWE.
>>
Terry Funk - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 21:53:08 EST kcJxkzQu No.6347702 Reply
>>6347360
People other than insecure manbabies so yeah I can see why it's lost on you.

>>6347356
That's just your own inference.
>>
Yokozuna - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:18:07 EST wFa9wi8R No.6347724 Reply
>>6347703
I'm with you that it wasn't the right move but I don't think the effect was anywhere near that bad, they still sold out buildings and buyrates kept steady till the end, it didn't help business but it had little to no effect on anything really. The 'mystique' of ECW was long gone before Justin got the strap since WWF and WCW had already run hardcore shit into the ground, Heyman was attempting to shift into more of a ROH-style product for the emerging internet smark crowd in their final months, Joey Styles uses the phrase "the new era of ECW" a lot and said new era was about the torch being passed to 'workrate' guys and away from Hardcore guys. That's what it was, it wasn't a 'fuck you' to anyone, I'm sorry you think Credible's the shits but not everything's some big conspiracy.
>>
Bull Buchanan - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:25:58 EST b0jIMCOD No.6347730 Reply
>>6347724
I don't remember it being like this. I saw ECW for the first time in 1999 and I was ALL ABOUT IT. I thought it was so fucking cool and Justin Credible or anything else didn't ruin it for me. Maybe I was just young. ECW was still a hype product all the way up until its death.
>>
Shinya Hashimoto - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:26:15 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347731 Reply
>>6347724
I don't think Credible was a BAD wrestler. Just horribly miscast and overpushed by Heyman
>>
Equinox - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:29:37 EST MObJptQJ No.6347735 Reply
>>6347731
That was the whole point. How are you still not getting this after literal years of having it explained to you?
>>
>>
Shinya Hashimoto - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:33:21 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347740 Reply
>>6347735
There were better heels in ECW at the time like Tajiri and Steve Corino.
>>
Equinox - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 22:42:57 EST MObJptQJ No.6347743 Reply
>>6347740
TAJIRI had just won the TV Title and turned face. Corino was in the midst of his feud with Dusty.
>>
Dolph Ziggler - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 23:44:36 EST +GbjX+1q No.6347763 Reply
>>6347618
WWE at its worst still has some decent action. None of it matters because the booking is so fucking bad but I can at least watch a match and think "Well, that was fun."

TNA at its worst was just dogshit fucking terrible in every way. The matches sucked, the booking was horrendous, and I had no idea how people watched it. We rag on people who still watch WWE right now for good reason but holy shit, TNA was awful.
>>
Equinox - Wed, 15 Jan 2020 23:55:35 EST MObJptQJ No.6347766 Reply
>>6347763
WWE production is so terrible now that even its matches are nearly unwatchable
>>
Sarita - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:03:23 EST Uz1bd5r7 No.6347768 Reply
>>6347766
Becouse it is just same shit. You watch AEW tonight and every match is different. Sure things don't get as bad as they get in AEW matches some times, but it's never same shit. Then when you throw in that nothing matter in WWE until PPV why would you watch.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:05:50 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347769 Reply
>>6347763
TNA's worst period was probably 2013-2014 because of Aces & Eights and AJ leaving.
>>
Equinox - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:25:43 EST MObJptQJ No.6347775 Reply
>>6347768
I was moreso referring to its camera operators seemingly being methhead chimps
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:32:51 EST OlkwZ9Ry No.6347777 Reply
>>6347763
The main difference between WWE and TNA is I never felt like turning off TNA or missing a show.
Now I don't care if I miss any WWE show, even PPVs, and fast forward through most of it when catching up.
TNA still felt like everything mattered, even if it was a mess. WWE isn't even trying to make anything matter. You could miss six months of their product and miss nothing
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:54:06 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347780 Reply
>>6347777
When compared to early 2010s TNA, does WWE have anyone who is Abyss/Ken Anderson/Matt Morgan/Rob Terry level shitty on their roster?
>>
Natalya - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 01:10:08 EST UxqzyQxl No.6347784 Reply
>>6347780
not defending Impact(TNA from that period because i wasn't even watching back then, but around the 2010's WWE was absolutely unwatchable, having a bad roster was the last of their problems
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 01:16:54 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347786 Reply
I wonder what could be seen as the WWE equivalents of WCW bringing back Bertha Faye, making Vince Russo champion, running endless hours of JJ talking about stroke and power, and ensuring there are at least 1,000 WWF references per show when you compare the current product to dying days WCW.
>>
Equinox - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:01:52 EST MObJptQJ No.6347797 Reply
>>6347786
>running endless hours of JJ talking about stroke and power

Shane O'Mac
>>
Drew Gulak - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:43:02 EST /VBs/eZV No.6347803 Reply
by their standards i thought monday was a pretty good show
>>
>>
Netjester !AI.skYnEt - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 02:43:05 EST iLikEToleARn No.6347804 Reply
>>6347803
10/17 monday smackdown show against a villainous fighter.
>>
Vincent J. McMahon - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 04:57:51 EST rFVMZY3R No.6347812 Reply
>>6347803
I think the main problem with WWE is that the shows are perfectly serviceable. As much as people wanna act like Raw is the absolute shittiest program of all time, it's fine. Maybe an overly shitty angle sticks out here or there, but there's usually at least one good match or segment each Monday. Nothing too spectacular or mind-blowing week-to-week, save for the rare "oh shit, never seen that before, that's kinda cool" spot like Owens running up the set this week. But even then, there are a million gifs and videos of it readily available on social media within 10 minutes so you don't have to watch it live.

There's nothing must-watch about Raw though. You can skip it live and watch whatever segment you want the next day on YouTube. There's no sense of urgency to seeing the show live anymore. The solution isn't clear cut, but I think a good place to start would be more title changes on free TV. That way, there might be something consequential to make more people wanna tune in more often.
>>
Equinox - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 07:58:10 EST MObJptQJ No.6347822 Reply
>>6347812
It's a sub-mediocre sitcom level of "quality" except instead of a half-hour it goes for over 3 hours
>>
CM Punk - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:16:13 EST J10K+5dU No.6347825 Reply
i have no idea how wwe is gonna survive in the long term

where are they gettin new fans from? i cant see a new generation kids liking it now that they're pretty open about it being fake af.
>>
Johnny Saint - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:19:37 EST Q6Esau3f No.6347826 Reply
>>6347389
The lowest rating Nitro ever got was 1.72 for their 4-27-98 episode.
>>
Jim Cornette - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:44:20 EST QQesQNiH No.6347844 Reply
Graves on a WWE Podcast burying WWE:

>Corey says he was set off this Monday during the Bobby Lashley vs Rusev match when the camera panned to the crowd not caring about the match. He says it was complete apathy which is the worst thing that could happen in this business with crowds.

>He's upset about how Liv Morgan was handled since she arrived so late to the match after saying she was going to be in Rusev's corner. She was beaten easily by Lana with the soda and he doesn't know why we should care about Liv anymore. He thinks they should just let them move on from the storyline because it's just beating a dead horse at this point.

>He talks about the Attitude Era and says that this storyline feels like they are trying to recapture the good old days.

>He says that the things people miss from that Era are not the cheesy Jerry Springer storylines, but that Superstars were allowed to figure things out, allowed to be themselves and allowed to connect.

>Corey doesn't understand what they are doing with the Street Profits since they are constantly changing what they do each week.

>"Let the Street Profits be the Street Profits. Let them go. Let everyone be themselves. This micromanagement stuff has to stop we are our own worst enemies in this situation. I just want to be a fan. I want to enjoy it. I want to watch my friends be awesome stars and have great matches."

>https://old.red dit.com/r/Squared Circle/comments/epkxn1/corey_graves_let_everyone_be_themselves_this/
>>
Conor O'Brian - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:51:32 EST 9krVcjgU No.6347847 Reply
>>6347844
The storyline's gone far enough where they can't just decide to drop it suddenly; it seems like they planned something out till Wrestlemania, and they're following through with it. It's clear though that the writers have too much control for being lousy.
>>
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:57:02 EST 6VrC0Wv6 No.6347848 Reply
>>6347844
Bruh when resident kiss ass Corey Graves is shitting on the product you just know the show sucks ass.
>>
Brendan Michael Thomas - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 12:33:58 EST qn9DAIxI No.6347869 Reply
>>6347175

There's just no point in watching anymore when everything is so predictable, and so pointless, and so insulting to our intelligence.
>>
Tomoka Nakagawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 12:50:24 EST jCH8J3Fu No.6347873 Reply
>>6347847
>It's clear though that the writers have too much control
say what? is this your first week watching a vince mcmahon product?
>>
Tursas - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 12:57:35 EST /X9BicXZ No.6347874 Reply
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>>6347873
still isn’t wrong. Sure,
Vince gets final say but we’ve all heard podcasts and stories from Punk and others how those writers are on your back and constantly micromanaging the talent. You’ve gotta realize how stifling creativity affects an artist or a talent’s creative ability in general. Those writers are TV show writers, sitcom savvy, NON WRESTLING RELATED workers for the company. They are largely in charge of the talent, not the talent themselves. That’s what makes things reek.
>>
Riho - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:36:26 EST 6lubTvqQ No.6347881 Reply
>>6347874
Ambrose made it clear that the writers are just doing Vince's dirty work.
It's all Vince's fault at the end. You can bring in pro-wrestling bookers and writers if you want. It won't matter if Vince is still in charge.
>>
>>
Conor O'Brian - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:12:57 EST cfOXxE22 No.6347888 Reply
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BRING OUT THE TARPS.

How long until WWE starts putting in CGI crowds in the empty areas of their arenas
>>
Mankind - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:25:43 EST +Vumrl0l No.6347889 Reply
>>6347874
>and others how those writers are on your back and constantly micromanaging the talent. You’ve gotta realize how stifling creativity affects an artist or a talent’s creative ability in general. Those writers are TV show writers, sitcom savvy, NON WRESTLING RELATED workers for the company. They are largely in charge of the talent, not the talent themselves.
What the absolute fuck is this horse shit nonsense ?
Jesus Christ where did you hear this shit? How did you come to form this hilariously inaccurate opinion? Please tell me more.
>>
Scott Armstrong - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:09:00 EST yxXhjRX3 No.6347893 Reply
>>6347888
I can't remember which podcast it was but I specifically remember someone talking about how WWE has a greenscreened TV studio with a ring in it somewhere.
>>
Tursas - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:10:33 EST /X9BicXZ No.6347894 Reply
>>6347889
that fact you didn’t know any of that when this very board is where all that info was gained and sourced at the time as well is even more hilarious.
>>
Tursas - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 15:15:43 EST /X9BicXZ No.6347895 Reply
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>>6347889
in fact, as of just last year, wwe’s confirmed writing staff consists of a past Soap Opera writer, a past Reality TV show writer, and another who worked in scripted television.


But yeah, Fuckface, keep telling me how they are using ‘wrestling’ creatives like strictly Paul Heyman and Vince make all this shit.
>>
Mankind - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:34:33 EST +Vumrl0l No.6347951 Reply
>>6347894
>this very board is where all that info was gained
Well there is our issue then.
Tell me more about these writer slave driving the poor defenseless wrestlers while Vince stands aside and sighs and wishes he could do something about it.
>They are largely in charge of the talent, not the talent themselves.
Explain this further.
>>
The Great Muta - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:30:03 EST QYsXLcve No.6348023 Reply
>>6347951

This.

I doubt the writers have any major pull other than, writing what Vince wants. Even Freddie Prince Jr leftover having no actual say in anything.

The real people you have to worry about stifling creative and rasslers are Vince and his goons of yesmen.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 21:25:05 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348034 Reply
I don't think WWE constantly references other promotions similar to how WCW constantly referenced WWF at least a 1,000 times per show when it was dying.
>>
Wataru Inoue - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 21:41:09 EST LI44JGTB No.6348039 Reply
>>6348034
They did a fair amount of that when Nitro started kicking their shit in.We got stuff like Billionaire Ted's war room and the commentary team shittalking WCW's geriatric main event scene. The latter continued into at least 98/99 with Lawler and Ross bringing up WCW's bait and switch main events too.
>>
Jamie Noble - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:00:30 EST Ybchf0OF No.6348047 Reply
>>6348044

Haitch calling AEW a piss ant company during DX's HOF induction & Sami Zayn mentioned AEW during that Electric Chair segment last year.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:07:00 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348050 Reply
>>6348047
I know but it wasn't like WCW in 2000 where they'd reference WWE a billion times.
>>
Mr. Aguila - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:34:46 EST dYhrmb6W No.6348059 Reply
>>6348054
Why is WCW the only one that gets shit for this? I'm a massive ECW mark, but ECW did this shit constantly with WCW and WWF. ECW was all about creating an Us vs Them dynamic that STILL permeates indies to this day.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:35:30 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348060 Reply
>>6348054
WWE references are one of the easiest ways to tell if Vince Russo is booking a show.
>>
>>
Gorgeous George - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:42:22 EST CmVM3fC3 No.6348061 Reply
>>6348059
Because ECW was the underdog punching up. Everyone wants to see David beat Goliath. Nobody cares about Goliath squashing David. How is this even a question?
>>
Mabel - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:43:35 EST b7NZg4wN No.6348062 Reply
>>6348059
there's a difference between two major billion dollar companies doing petty shitflinging at each other through lame ass gimmicks and spoiling each other's shows, and a smaller company with a more dedicated fanbase representing the 90s counterculture and anti-establishment attitude (even if this wasn't actually the case,) punching up at the bigger companies

and the indies finding unity through an us vs. them mindset is not a bad thing at all
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 22:52:21 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348064 Reply
Name a year where ECW was clearly better than the big two outside of 1999.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 23:39:43 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348073 Reply
1997 is the tough one. WWF was probably better than both WCW and ECW that year.
>>
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Thu, 16 Jan 2020 23:50:22 EST 4phVRJ5N No.6348074 Reply
>>6348064
>Name a year where ECW was clearly better than the big two outside of 1999.
1996 and 1997 were booked so incredibly well in ECW. Now, whether those two yearsa were better than WCW's run with the nWo is hugely debatable and a major matter of taste.

But ECW 96 and 97 were undoubtedly better than WWF's.

1996 was the year Raven became ECW Champion and you had all these amazing interweaving feuds going on in the company: Raven vs Sandman where Raven "stole" Sandman's wife and son, Raven and Tommy Dreamer picking up steam, Raven and Stevie Richards breaking up and Richards becoming a huge babyface out of it, Raven and Terry Funk doing a basically a proto-Drunken Father vs Addict Son storyline

And that's just one character. In the 96 and 97 period there was also all the Shane Douglas stuff such as with the Pitbulls, the introduction of Beulah, the start of Buh Buh Ray Dudley and D-Von, The Eliminators (the best tag team in North America when they were in ECW together), The debut of the Gangstas, Sabu vs Taz in what was basically a semi-shoot, and so much more.

It was just an absolutely incredible period. Once ECW got to 1998, unforunately that's when WWF and WCW really just started raiding them for talent and really made the long term booking that had been ECW's trademark no longer possible. Many long term plans had to be hedged so that if people were signed away the people left weren't sitting there dead in the water.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 00:03:41 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348075 Reply
How about years where WCW was better than WWF? 89 and 92 are obvious answers.
>>
Mr. Aguila - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 00:44:54 EST dYhrmb6W No.6348078 Reply
>>6348064
1999?! How the fuck is 1999 your go to? Have you even seen ECW? How the fuck are Justin Credible and Mike Awesome your high water mark for ECW?!
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 00:50:57 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348081 Reply
>>6348078
1999 is my pick because of what Tajiri, Little Guido, Super Crazy and Jerry Lynn did that year.
>>
Jim Cornette - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 00:52:44 EST +9pCFlLB No.6348083 Reply
In conclusion ECW was based every year
>>
Averno - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 01:25:53 EST 5tJiAcKO No.6348091 Reply
>>6348078
Mike Awesome fucking ruled bro, the fuck? Awesome and Tanaka trying to kill each other with chairs is a high water mark any year. Justin didn't really get his singles push going until mid-2000 but the Impact Players were great, he doesn't stand out as a '1999 guy', I'd associate it more with Jerry Lynn, Tajiri, Super Crazy, RVD, Guido, those crop of guys really came into their own. Really all ECW years have a lot of positives, 1993 is probably the outright worst but it obviously has its formative charms.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 01:31:18 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348092 Reply
>>6348091
Tajiri from 99-00 was arguably the best wrestler in the world during those years as well.
>>
>>
John Zandig - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 06:44:52 EST r8t0d7iY No.6348110 Reply
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>>6347951
How did you mindlessly get so far away from my point?

Writers who belong in Sitcom // Soap Opera // Non-wrestling shows are who writes for WWE creative, not so much Vince and others, although they have the most pull if anything is to be CHANGED. Very rarely is anything a Vince or Paul project, and when it’s not them it’s most of the time writers not named Road Dogg or Haitch or Vince McMahon.

The Fuck are you talking about “wrestlers enslaved by the writers” like it’s a new concept for WWE talent to feel stifled and uncreative because of it? You realize in any field a talent’s goal as a performer is creative control over their act because shit like this is the nightmare vs living their Dream?
>>
Johnny Rodz - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:20:50 EST MObJptQJ No.6348125 Reply
>>6348110
lmao Road Dogg left "creative" a long time ago precisely because Vince wouldn't listen to him.

Way to prove your opponent's argument!
>>
John Zandig - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:34:08 EST r8t0d7iY No.6348130 Reply
>>6348125
I said people Not Named Road Dogg.

Use your brain. excuse Me for being ignorant of WWE, mark.
>>
Johnny Rodz - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:35:43 EST MObJptQJ No.6348140 Reply
>>6348130
So let me get this straight: if Vince won't listen to someone he's known for the better part of 30 years he'll...definitely listen to some General Hospital office kid?
>>
Cheech Hernandez - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:59:02 EST zJpIeZWH No.6348146 Reply
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>>6348034
Bro.

When TNA started picking up steam, they literally gave their divas a bunch of TNA's top guys' finishers, just to bury them.
>>
Yoshinari Ogawa - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:04:19 EST Q6Esau3f No.6348148 Reply
I doubt RAW nowadays is worse than the HHH reign of terror era.
>>
Bam Bam Bigelow - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:09:50 EST gN0St+kD No.6348150 Reply
>>6348146
Do you have other examples than just the Styles Clash McCool used because I don't remember TNA top guys using "hair pull" or "women's slap #4" to end their matches.
>>
Horace - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:09:51 EST Lq7nyN8K No.6348151 Reply
>>6348148
RAW in 2003/2004 was still watchable and had good matches
There's fucking nothing about RAW that's good now
>>
Horace - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:24:29 EST Lq7nyN8K No.6348153 Reply
>>6348152
Did you even watch the reign as it happened or are you just getting news second hand?
He held it for a month after Mania.
He held it for two months at the end of 2002.
>>
Cheech Hernandez - Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:30:30 EST zJpIeZWH No.6348154 Reply
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>>6348150
There's also the "Wings of Love", aka the Angel's Wings and I swear they had someone use the Ankle Lock at the same time, too.

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