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Harm Reduction Notes for the COVID-19 Pandemic

Now Playing on /wooo/tube -

Getting legit heel heat

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- Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:16:12 EST zIJMJ+hI No.6372777
File: 1585242972440.jpg -(17108B / 16.71KB, 480x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Getting legit heel heat
Has any wrestler, especially recently, just tried being a full-on controversial heel to gain heat and attention? Must be really easy these days with people being so easily upset over anything, just say feminism sucks or something and the average crowd probably would be on your throat already, or is this considered some kind of taboo in the pro wres business?
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Jack Korpela - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:20:47 EST b7NZg4wN No.6372781 Reply
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tracy smothers got heat for calling someone a faggot and coming out in confederate flag gear

and mjf, the greatest heel in professional wrestling history, calls people virgins and women whores all the time!!
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Mikey - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:25:32 EST zIJMJ+hI No.6372785 Reply
>>6372781
MJF is at least trying not to be a 'cool heel', but people still sing and dance and kiss his ring when he comes out and he plays along, that's not what I'm looking for. Why not try to bring the classic idea of people actually hating a heel back, it's not like the business isn't in need for new ideas.
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Big Bad Mama - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:27:29 EST dYhrmb6W No.6372789 Reply
>>6372781
MJF is a guy cosplay as an old '80s-'90s wrestling heel. Everything he does is played out and hacky.
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Sting - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:28:23 EST cfOXxE22 No.6372790 Reply
>>6372777
Carnies lack the intelligence to give a gimmick like that the nuance it'd need.

Plus it'd lead to mass crying and threatens of boycotts from 4chinners, because if the heel plays the "feminism is bad" gimmick, then the face (who wins and makes the heel look stupid) has to play the "feminism is good" role.
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Apolo - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 13:38:38 EST /YsP7rdR No.6372795 Reply
>>6372785
How many characters in movies or books have you really, completely and totally hated, instead of just taking them as the bad guys for the two hours it lasts? It's the same with wrestling.
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Octagón - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 15:22:41 EST MILqWokm No.6372906 Reply
I remember reading Cage was working aMDKgimmick in AAA a few years ago. Never saw any of it, but I'd think that would count.
>>6372824
This shit was fantastic until it lost any nuance and he had dudes run in to allahu akbar Taker.
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Perry Saturn - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 15:24:06 EST GXHNtkkw No.6372908 Reply
>>6372906
Cage was doing it during the primaries, but as Sam Adonis started doing it more in CMLL and it got closer to the regular election Cage phased it out
but yeah both used That Guy Who Gets Catplanted for cheap heat in Mexico
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Perry Saturn - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 15:28:52 EST GXHNtkkw No.6372914 Reply
and to be desu I don't think it got any more heat than any other I AM FROM THE USA type gimmick, certainly no more heat than AAA-Mode Jeff Jarrett would get
nb for 2x
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Chris Hero - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 19:59:05 EST ecMNnQg1 No.6373088 Reply
>Must be really easy these days with people being so easily upset over anything

big boomer energy
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Frightmare - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:12:14 EST ZcoAes5B No.6373187 Reply
I've talked about this before, but a big part of the changing face of wrestling is the gentrification of the audience. Wrestling used to appeal to a more low-class demographic. These people more often than not aren't propped up by the mechanisms of power: they didn't have the support of authority figures in school, they don't trust the police, etc. To them, if you have a problem, you need to do something about that problem yourself, even if it meant throwing hands. And this translates how into wrestling, when a heel does something loathesome and obnoxious, you want to legitimately kick his ass. But you know that you can't kick his ass (usually) so you cheer for the babyface to kick his ass instead.

But by WWE's gradual shifting to a more upscale, well-to-do demographic in the form of upper-middle class suburban families, these people are out of the loop. They didn't grow up in the same circumstances and so they're more accustomed to authority figures handling problems for them. To them, the proper response to a heel being shitty isn't someone just beating the shit out of the heel, it's talking to said heel's boss and getting him in trouble. As a result, a lot of old heel tactics don't work as well anymore. Talking shit to the wrong audience member could get you in some deep shit of your own. These people aren't as familiar with the traditional boundaries and mechanics of professional wrestling and as a result their expectations are very different than what's been the norm in the business for decades.
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Makoto - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:36:05 EST SSBWwyU5 No.6373201 Reply
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>Must be really easy these days with people being so easily upset over anything
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Konnan - Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:50:57 EST q8zMvmTB No.6373206 Reply
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>>6373201
ok, now, i don't wanna go off topic too much, but does spouting milquetoast takes on how exoticos are bad after the year of our lord 2014 get considered controversial by anyone, at any side of the political spectrum, at this point?
it's like, yeah dude, we're so lucky that we can say weird, emarginated, people are weird on the internet, thanks google!
my only real life experience of modern american culture has been filtered through the lens of the internet, so maybe i have it figured out all wrong and i definitely dont have the tools to say whether things have gotten better or worse in terms of what you can express publicly, but really, do you REALLY think that a society that at large treats saying the n-word like stomping on a newborn baby would accept the presence and especially monetization at any capacity of actual controversial humor?

picture featuring secret swastikas totally unrelated
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Athena - Fri, 27 Mar 2020 03:50:05 EST OerWhN2+ No.6373248 Reply
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>>6373187
Essentially this is what is happening in the wrestling industry. I hate to use "gentrification" because its a meme term imo but its exactly what it is.

Also if anything I blame the "boujee" indies like PWG for mucking up the water.(Yeah, if a bunch of celebs are going to see wrestling, it's pretty fucking boujee)

It's the same shit with what happened to anime, comics, tabletop,video games etc etc. People don't gatekeep and thus people who don't get the culture join it and change the culture from within. Mind you, in this case, they had the help of the biggest show on the road, but allowing this wasn't a good thing. Basically we need to make wrestling uncool again before we can have genuinely good heel work.

NB for slightly off topic ranting
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Johnny Grunge - Fri, 27 Mar 2020 06:11:04 EST CR6zktB8 No.6373262 Reply
>is this considered some kind of taboo in the pro wres business?
I doubt it's a taboo, but it is a pretty cheap & lazy way of getting heat, tbh.
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Seth Rollins - Fri, 27 Mar 2020 06:22:29 EST It2BUKqt No.6373267 Reply
>just say feminism sucks or something and the average crowd probably would be on your throat already

Pro wrestling is a conservative art form. If anything, you'd be more likely to find crowds that would cheer "feminism sucks" than crowds that would boo it.
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Nigel McGuinness - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 00:38:50 EST oOLczIsv No.6373591 Reply
AJ Styles liked saying "faggot" on the indies and Kevin Steen liked saying the n-word.
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Tanny Mouse - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 01:01:19 EST OerWhN2+ No.6373595 Reply
>>6373267
Not really anymore, it's a mostly booker audience now, if you were talking 20-30 years ago, You'd be right
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Jun Kasai - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:00:38 EST dYhrmb6W No.6373690 Reply
>>6373591
Steen seems like the kind of guy that didn't speak to a black person until he was 25.
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Jim Cornette - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:31:56 EST jDgHHoPm No.6373707 Reply
>>6373690

Quebec actually has a good amount of black people compared to the rest of Canada

Considering KO comes off as white trash and was a wrestling fan, though, I'm sure he never interacted with them.
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Lauren Brooke - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 14:48:35 EST ikPGwBA1 No.6373722 Reply
Well, controversy isn't just anger but division. You don't really want division. You want everybody, or near enough, to hate the heel. So if you're going to tap in to some sort of greater socio-political/pop cultural current to garner heat it needs to be something that's pretty much universally reviled by the audience. It also needs to be done in a way that's restrained enough to be "believable" (by wrestling standards) and not just obvious shock value.

I kind of feel like at ths point a wrestler getting edgy on the mic might get a positive reaction solely for the sheer audacity of it and the last thing you need is for a supposed heel to get a pop for saying vile shit.
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Brian Pillman - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 17:46:22 EST rUgIGGHn No.6373775 Reply
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> not one Consensual Penis post
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Mick Foley - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 18:08:29 EST ZcoAes5B No.6373776 Reply
>>6373722
This is kind of a good point. A big factor driving the culture wars now is spite, and people are going to endorse pretty much any sort of bugfuck insane take as long as they think it'll stick it to their hated outgroup. Everything has been tribally politicized to the point where a lot of edgy behavior will now be seen as taking a side.
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Kota Ibushi - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 18:17:52 EST ItDzfamr No.6373779 Reply
It's hard to get legit heat these days. There will always be a large portion of the audience that cheers the heel because people just like bad guys. The only way to stop it is if the heel is genuinely just not very good at anything, like Jinder and Corbin get tons of "heat" but it's mostly cause people don't want to watch them, which does nothing for buyrates or ratings. The art of having a guy be universally hated AND good enough for people to spend money to see get their comeuppance is lost because the audience is simply different.

The problem of getting heat off of controversial subjects is that you run the risk of dividing your audience since most controversial issues are controversial because people disagree on them. Not only that, but people don't like to be preached to and most faces would come off as preachy in those scenarios. That's why doing something like an angle where Darren Young/Sonny Kiss fight against homophobic heels would bomb and why AEW has smartly avoided playing up Nyla Rose's transness.

I guess you could try to exploit real heat to get the desired reaction and that MIGHT work; like if you bring Jim Cornette into AEW to manage somebody against the Bucks or Omega it might work because Cornette has the mic skills to pull it off and also has a genuine dislike for the company that everyone is aware of, but that's a really niche example that also presents a lot of problems like getting people that legit dislike each other to actually work together.
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Earthquake - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 20:01:33 EST OerWhN2+ No.6373806 Reply
>>6373779
Yeah, this is a good point. "Edgy" stuff is distracting and definitely would divide the audience, even if you took full refuge in audacity with it.
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Andy Douglas - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 20:50:09 EST lEiiDdhE No.6373814 Reply
People really don't watch lucha libre
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Reckless Youth - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:23:25 EST X3HfNDOH No.6373823 Reply
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Reminds me of something I was thinking about earlier, but wouldn't the Million Dollar Man get over so fucking hard today? It'd have to be the Billion Dollar Man of course but a supposed heel needlessly flaunting their legitimate wealth and mocking poor people (and poor wrestlers lmao) on social media would work some people into a seething fucking rage in this political climate.

Like if ADR made that reply to Uno instead of Strowman. But like. As an entire gimmick. Idk I'm way baked.
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DJ Gabriel - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 21:37:09 EST WttJPmbI No.6373825 Reply
>>6373823

JBL was something similar to this, but even that was close to 15 years ago. You're right, "obnoxious rich guy" is a timeless gimmick that no one's really doing now. I could have seen Cody pulling it off before he got the dumb tats; maybe MJF
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C.W. Anderson - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:12:09 EST CAa4IsmC No.6373831 Reply
>>6373206

Look at who the US president is you dense fucking cunt. Right wing discourse is not in any way suppressed. People who have their moronic opinions rightly pushed back on kick up a big song and dance about how oppressed they are. Thick cunts like you, who by your own admission have fuck all idea what they're talking about, then thoughlessy parrot these claims of oppression.
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Bob Armstrong - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:18:34 EST ItDzfamr No.6373832 Reply
>>6373823
MJF is kinda doing it, but the problem with the million dollar man gimmick is everyone is so keenly aware of the realities of wrestling now so if you did that you'd have to either do it with a guy who actually has enough money to make it work or foot the bill so he's never seen flying coach and shit.
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Hulk Hogan - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:53:47 EST q8zMvmTB No.6373837 Reply
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>>6373831
>Look at who the US president is you dense fucking cunt
a heel whose biggest controversial stance since his presidency is that he doesn't want illegal immigrants and that merely won out of spite against an opponent that had the overwhelming majority of the media sucking her clit for 2 years straight. what should i make of it?

>Right wing discourse is not in any way suppressed.
why are you implying that right wing discourse, like any other discours, doesn't also include a vast range of completely mild topics that have nothing with entertainment or self expression? why are you implying that it's only right wing discourse specifically being oppressed is my problem?

>People who have their moronic opinions rightly pushed back on kick up a big song and dance about how oppressed they are.
yes, that's how it works, whether the opinion is "moronic" or not. if you deplatform someone for an opinion then you give them ground for victimhood, no matter what. that has nothing to do with how much you like or not an opinion

>Thick cunts like you, who by your own admission have fuck all idea what they're talking about, then thoughlessy parrot these claims of oppression.
lmao calm down i just asked a question
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Hulk Hogan - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 22:59:55 EST q8zMvmTB No.6373838 Reply
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>>6373837
lmao
i should know better than to argue with someone about politics in a board that filters rep |_| blican as "heel"
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Mari Apache - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:17:08 EST 0Z86crWH No.6373839 Reply
>>6372781

Smothers was the face when he did all that mang.

SMW was one hell of a thing.
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Kurt Angle - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:34:03 EST b7NZg4wN No.6373842 Reply
>>6373839
talking about when he did it at the GCW shows and people got upset on twitter because he kept calling people faggots every time he showed up
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R-Truth - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:35:53 EST klNNsTiF No.6373847 Reply
to get any heat you need the audience to not know that wrestling is scripted (or at least care enough about a babyface to watch it anyway) because of instead of "FUCK THAT FUCKIN GUY HE DID X TO Y I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE Y KICK HIS STUPID FUCKIN ASS" its "man did you see what they did on RAW? that was in really poor taste on the writer's part".

perfect example, if they brought colonel debeers out and had him play up his racist apartheid gimmick on TV. if a wrestler cut a promo refusing to let a black referee officiate his matches because he's black, you'd get fucking crucified in the media even if its made clear nobody endorses this racist asshole and in fact, we all want to see him get his ass kicked. why? because everybody watching would know he's just saying some shit someone wrote for him. that's the problem, full stop. we all know its fake, choreographed, w/e, and that genie is never going back in. forget "real heat". it doesn't exist anymore.
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Mari Apache - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:37:03 EST 0Z86crWH No.6373849 Reply
>>6373842

Didn't know about that.

I'm a pro-equality guy and a pro-wrestling fan and I fucking love Tracy Smothers.
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Kevin Von Erich - Sat, 28 Mar 2020 23:44:15 EST Dt7eGiun No.6373853 Reply
>>6373838
yeah that's definitely the reason you should know better than to talk /yard/
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Sinister Minister - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 00:50:51 EST ZcoAes5B No.6373870 Reply
>>6373831
Right-wing opinions are suppressed in left-wing spaces, left-wing opinions are suppressed in right-wing spaces. Both political factions have created tribal echo-chambers by shouting down dissenters en masse and claiming it's dialogue. This has been going on forever and only in the past five years or so has it really applied to the internet.

Nb for off-topic
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Muscle Sakai - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 01:30:56 EST Oo/WSkPo No.6373873 Reply
>>6372777
Just talk shit about queers. Instaheat. The average Westerner worships homos, the average wrestling fan even more so.
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Mari Apache - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 03:05:37 EST 0Z86crWH No.6373889 Reply
>>6373847

I don't necessarily agree with the second part of your post because wrestling shouldn't be very different to television, movies or theatre in post-kayfabe age. You should be able to have an absolutely detestable character with views that the majority of society utterly rejects for the purpose of making that character an antagonist.
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Bobo Brazil - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 05:26:49 EST 1Thwe0/g No.6373900 Reply
>>6373847
Its true you can't get true heat anymore. The whole point of getting heat is to make people want you to lose your match. Since people know its pre-determined and that the person is just a character, its hard to truly want to see their ass kicked However you can still have great heels. That comes out in the style of their promos and wrestling.

I do not think the media cares too much about what happens in the ring. Everyone knows its scripted and they are characters on screen. The the other side of it too, no one cares about the actual person behind the character. Its like how Braun got some negativity about that post he made. It made people dislike him but that does not mean I am going to hope he gets beat in his match or even tune in to the match in hopes of that.

To me is seems like the only heat thats around is go away heat.
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Tocool !!BwqwIrIQ - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 09:46:55 EST 7Q90mRBM No.6373924 Reply
>>6373873
Now are we talking Westerner as in...GLOBALLY, or is this a redneck westcoast hate thing?
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Beef Wellington - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 12:45:08 EST eiBgYgur No.6373958 Reply
Fiction became reality in 2015 according to Twitter, circlejerk and Tumblr so if you do bigots in fiction regardless what their allegiance is you are a bigot. Full stop sweaty.
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Dixie Carter - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 16:24:10 EST cfOXxE22 No.6374058 Reply
>>6373967
>Paul Joseph Watson

Lmao, make sure to buy some more of his Brain Force Plus! To make sure you can be a true free thinker like him!!
>>
Dixie Carter - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 17:19:35 EST cfOXxE22 No.6374069 Reply
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>>6374065
Well given the video is clearly trying to charicature bookers/centrists using extreme examples, I think it's equally valid to laugh at Alt Right tards using individual examples too, no?
>>
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Macho Man Randy Savage - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 17:32:32 EST LUMg+nxK No.6374075 Reply
old cornette could get heat talking mad amount of trash while also putting over the babyface he was feuding with

its easy to get shoot heat, but can you do it in kayfabe
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AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 17:54:09 EST 6VrC0Wv6 No.6374078 Reply
Real heel heat used to get you death threats and fan attacks. Now it gets you canceled. No one wants to be canceled so its harder to run that line. CM Punk shitting on drug use was an example of a heel who's got a point who can still shit on the drunk fans to the point that they are pissed off. But even then in a house of more sober people hey may not get the reaction he wants.
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Hulk Hogan - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:18:28 EST q8zMvmTB No.6374084 Reply
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>>6374069
fucks sake i keep losing track of filters in this board
what are bookers and centrists supposed to be?
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Johnny Rodz - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:37:33 EST 6lubTvqQ No.6374088 Reply
>>6374081
>kayfabe commentaries shoot
I'm surprised that didn't get taken down
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The Esperanza - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 20:44:33 EST aDVoKFee No.6374129 Reply
Acting racist/sexist/general awful person really needs to come back into wrestling big time and the sooner people who don't want it to realize it has to the better. The main thing is all companies need to go back to absolutely not giving a shit when someone complains, no such thing as bad publicity etc.

>>6372906
>This shit was fantastic until it lost any nuance and he had dudes run in to allahu akbar Taker.
That had some nuance to it too. He was trolling people by doing it and having white guys actually be under the hoods and not arabs.
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Shayne Hawke - Sun, 29 Mar 2020 21:10:24 EST CR6zktB8 No.6374138 Reply
>>6374129
>That had some nuance to it too.
I doubt you even know what nuance even means.
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Gorgeous George - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 03:46:53 EST Dt7eGiun No.6374203 Reply
>>6374129
Aren't you that guy that wanted Cedric to get a racebaiting S&M gimmick?
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The Esperanza - Mon, 30 Mar 2020 04:27:13 EST aDVoKFee No.6374206 Reply
>>6374203
I still want it. Would be SO much better than what he's done since I suggested that months ago.

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