Leave these fields empty (spam trap):
Name
You can leave this blank to post anonymously, or you can create a Tripcode by using the format Name#Password
Comment
[i]Italic Text[/i]
[b]Bold Text[/b]
[spoiler]Spoiler Text[/spoiler]
>Highlight/Quote Text
[pre]Preformatted & Monospace Text[/pre]
[super]Superset Text[/super]
[sub]Subset Text[/sub]
1. Numbered lists become ordered lists
* Bulleted lists become unordered lists
File

Sandwich


Now Playing on /wooo/tube -

Al Snow has a point you know

Reply
- Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:46:37 EST lOimgWzA No.6425984
File: 1596217597578.jpg -(47360B / 46.25KB, 400x266) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. Al Snow has a point you know
If Dave Meltzer is such an expert in Prowrestling, how come he's never opened his own promotion? It's dumb that some people (including some wrestlers) have put Meltzer up on some pedestal as the know it all of wrestling. Anybody can give their opinion on a wrestling match. What make Meltzer's opinon better than any other smark?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XithyGnzLFs
>>
The Blue Meanie - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:50:15 EST wwkx+h7B No.6425985 Reply
1596217815419.jpg -(45983B / 44.91KB, 400x266) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
If Al Snow is such an expert in Prowrestling, how come he's never drawn money? It's dumb that some people (including some wrestlers) have put Snow up on some pedestal as the know it all of wrestling. Anybody can give their opinion on a wrestling match. What make Snow's opinon better than any other smark?
>>
John Bradshaw Layfield - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:55:45 EST /YsP7rdR No.6425988 Reply
If Roger Ebert is such an expert in Movies, how come he's never opened his own studio? It's dumb that some people (including some actors) have put Ebert up on some pedestal as the know it all of movies. Anybody can give their opinion on a movie. What make Ebert's opinon better than any other cinephile?
>>
Golga - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:56:52 EST T5Ycresu No.6425989 Reply
Al Snow literally by his own definition never drew a dime
>>
Colt Cabana - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:07:23 EST 6RcvwRLi No.6425999 Reply
Dave Meltzer has consistently made money from pro wrestling for 35 years. By Snow's own metrics, that makes him a better wrestler than Snow's ever been.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:16:52 EST M1ahJWky No.6426008 Reply
>>6425999
You could argue that Meltzer himself is a promoter in a roundabout way. He's literally making money from marks who want to spend 11.99 a month to hear wrestling news filtered through him.
>>
Zardoz - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:21:44 EST G0uyKAOX No.6426012 Reply
Running a promotion isn't just booking good matches
>>
Colt Cabana - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:38:43 EST n9eKBgQH No.6426027 Reply
>>6425986
Chasyn Rance is in the wrestling business so guess you'll take his opinion too
>>
Lita - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 14:40:45 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6426028 Reply
1596220845535.jpg -(361594B / 353.12KB, 1410x1671) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Dave got into a twitter argument about Al's points the other day
>>
Stacy Carter - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:08:03 EST ej84gzew No.6426073 Reply
>>6426008
meltzer is impossible to listen to speak. i think people are paying for bryan and vinny shows and maybe filthy tom lawlor
>>
Rico - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:25:47 EST BgwUp47T No.6426077 Reply
1596227147072.jpg -(12405B / 12.11KB, 480x360) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Dave's finisher would be called the Face Meltzer and nobody can convince me otherwise.
>>
A.J. Styles - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:51:28 EST mKWqHmZL No.6426086 Reply
1596228688560.jpg -(52962B / 51.72KB, 675x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
Meltzer doesn't make his own promotion because if he booked Bucks his tongue would flap so hard it'd fall off
>>
Diamond Dallas Page - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 17:55:38 EST RmiLBXva No.6426113 Reply
>>6425999
And he's done it without having to take a single bump. A true hworker. Honky should be proud.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 18:06:12 EST M1ahJWky No.6426119 Reply
>>6426029
quote tweeting someone instead of just replying to them is so obnoxious
>>
Colt Cabana - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 19:17:57 EST 6RcvwRLi No.6426164 Reply
>>6426028
Yet ANOTHER - as if we needed one - example of boomers showing they have no idea what the fans actually want. What the fuck is booked for the hardcore fan and not for Vince's idea of what a casual wants?
>>
DrHouse !hyI5nSHRsg - Fri, 31 Jul 2020 19:18:19 EST dNcjw0ih No.6426165 Reply
>>6425984
Decades of well respected reporting and writing on all facets of the wrestling business.
>>
Sycho Sid - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 00:55:19 EST 3z9mtOnj No.6426241 Reply
Well he probably never had the money for one. And knowing what he knows about how hard it is to make money in the business, keep everybody happy, keep everybody's ego in check, turn a blind eye to things like drugs, etc., he probably had little interest in the '90s in trying to be like Paul Heyman. That's all assuming he even thinks he has a creative mind for it and not just a critical one. A lot of what Meltzer looks at goes beyond what the booker decided the finish would be, and that relies on the talent themselves.
>>
Bobby Lashley - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 01:39:10 EST sw2wBAmo No.6426254 Reply
>>6426029
>>6426028
Technically, they're both right. WWE is the biggest show in town and it caters to the most hardcore WWE mark: Vincent Kennedy McMahon. This has steadily, then rapidly driven away casual fans since the Attitude Era ended. Combine that with there being so much more shit to watch, there's no reason to tune in to WWE programming unless you're hardcore into WWE or shitposting in /wooo/chat.

However, whenever older wrestlers use "hardcore", they mean "IWC geeks who jerk off to Meltzer's smarks." The thing is, those are the "casuals" now. They're the ones who don't know enough to be discerning, contrarian or stubborn about older wrestling, so they blindly trust the most prominent authority on match quality in the game right now. For better or worse, that's Meltz.

A lot of casuals start watching because they see something on Twitter and want to fuck one of the pretty muscle boys or see more wacky shit.. Since outside of Seth and Drew, these people are found in promotions Meltzer gushes over (AEW, Dragon Gate, NJPW), Meltzer's brand of wrestling is more "in tune" with the casual.

Casuals also get interested in wrestling through memes, which would be more to the good of WWE, but Cena got erased from existence so WWE has lost a major source of memes.
>>
The Blue Meanie - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 01:49:13 EST msMEiaKI No.6426258 Reply
>>6425986
Meltz was hired by Vince for consultancy in the 80s. Suck it Leif.
>>
Vampiro - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 06:05:50 EST RgpMBobH No.6426271 Reply
>>6426254
>promotions Meltzer gushes over
>Dragon Gate
I get your point, but DG doesn't really count as a fed Meltz gushes over tbh.
>>
Tank - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 06:09:44 EST LUMg+nxK No.6426272 Reply
>>6426254
>meltzer
>dragon gate

i bet he's a kzy fan

bet that coward doesn't even like Big R
>>
Anarquia - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 08:56:46 EST /QSOXPNJ No.6426284 Reply
Reminder that everyone that trained with Al in OVW said he wasted years of their career with his bullshit
>>
Anarquia - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 09:58:29 EST /QSOXPNJ No.6426295 Reply
1596290309987.png -(39469B / 38.54KB, 639x122) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6426290
I guess this since I don't have developmentally speaking webms anymore
>>
The Blue Meanie - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 10:51:28 EST msMEiaKI No.6426301 Reply
>>6426273
Meltz has talked about it on radio before however I'm guessing that's not "reliable" pal?
>>
Chiva III - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 11:13:08 EST T3zADCGT No.6426304 Reply
Uhh I dunno man... Can I just get a half pound of chicken salad? I'm kinda in a hurry
>>
Rockin' Robin - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 11:30:49 EST 2JXG5vfK No.6426308 Reply
>Anybody can give their opinion on a wrestling match. What make Meltzer's opinon better than any other smark?
Same as any other critic, it's because he's spent more time consuming and analyzing the product, as well as speaking with the performers, than most people ever have in their time as a fan or as a wrestler.

>how come he's never opened his own promotion?
This is a bad take because it implies Dave, or any high profile critic, wants to go through the utter hell that is opening and running a business. Dave would know, again more than most, what goes into that and if he's making a comfortable living staying home with his family and typing papers for the internet, why would he want to change that? There's nothing wrong with wanting to be a reporter and he's at the top of his particular niche so why throw it all away?

Honestly this whole mindset of Al's is just really dumb. Whenever an actor or a director makes similar comments they're usually laughed at because most people have long since realized the value of critics that aren't directly involved in the artform that they're critiqueing. You can't accurately judge something artistic if you're too close to it.
>>
BroskiEW !dz5Y.hMh4w - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 12:09:35 EST SA4o+m0S No.6426319 Reply
Being an "expert" on wrestling a match's story and psychology vs. owning and operating a wrestling business are two completely different things and aren't even in the least bit comparable.

I typically like Al's takes on a lot of things but this one is fucking stupid and lazy.
>>
Emi Fujino - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 13:30:03 EST EWiQh0da No.6426333 Reply
>>6426295
Al Snow may not be the best wrestling trainer but he has to be better than the endless chumps out their with wrestling schools. So many wrestlers have been trained horribly and very few train wrestlers because they want to share knowledge and create a new generation of talented in ring workers. Most open schools and a continuation of their carny lifestyle and another way to WORK THE MARKS BROTHER. I think it's kind of gross.

Al Snow isn't even close to one of the worst ones.
>>
Archibald Peck - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 13:35:45 EST mKWqHmZL No.6426337 Reply
Iirc Al Snow never said "Sammy Guevara only used teenage slang so its ok for him to say he wants to rape Sasha Banks"
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 14:35:22 EST M1ahJWky No.6426354 Reply
>>6426308
>he's spent more time consuming and analyzing the product, as well as speaking with the performers, than most people ever have in their time as a fan

I mean this is just another type of gatekeeping. Being a good critic isn't about the amount of wrestling you've seen.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 15:25:40 EST M1ahJWky No.6426361 Reply
>>6426358
>>6426355

the original gatekeeping was Al Snow saying "you can criticise wrestling unless you've been in the industry"

Now the next one is "people who have watched more than other fans are better critics". I mean it might be true for some people, but not always.
>>
Kotenks !!rbabk2zH - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 15:27:43 EST FWjYRePR No.6426362 Reply
>>6426354
Having a deep knowledge of the medium you're criticizing is a part of being a good critic.
>>
Vader - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 15:36:28 EST 7CRcNLU6 No.6426367 Reply
>>6426361
You also missed the part where the other user says that Meltzer has analyzed wrestling and spoken to those in the business, for decades, and that all that has helped him develop his critical skills when it comes to discussing wrestling.
>>
Emi Fujino - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 16:02:34 EST EWiQh0da No.6426376 Reply
>>6426337
Did meltzer really say that? Smh Dave Meltzer needs to sit down. I am not saying that what Sammy said was some insane thing where he should of been fired over it but it wasn't right and Sammy admits that even. Dave is more and more off the mark as he gets older now. I don't hate Dave Meltzer either but he needs to sit down. Be humble. Sit down.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 16:04:52 EST M1ahJWky No.6426378 Reply
>>6426362
I agree, but that's different from simply watching a lot of matches. Qualitative understanding>quantitative
>>
Mona - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 16:24:42 EST rqbeZnm6 No.6426387 Reply
>>6426376
No, Dave didn't say that.
>There is no defending that statement. Yes, for decades, long before Guevara ever said it on a podcast, that was common teenage male slang for “that woman is so unbelievably hot,” which, like so many common slang terms of that generation, were terrible then and terrible now.
>>
Rockin' Robin - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 17:02:48 EST 2JXG5vfK No.6426400 Reply
>>6426354
>I mean this is just another type of gatekeeping.
lol what a weird context to break this word out

>Being a good critic isn't about the amount of wrestling you've seen.
No, but it is an enormous help. A film critic that has seen hundreds of horror movies from every decade that's had film is probably a better critic of horror films than someone that's just seen all the Paranormal Activities and all the Conjuring movies. Of course that's an exaggerated example, but quantity does matter to a critic because you need to be able to say things like "This was really good, but we've seen it done before here, here, her, here, and here so it's not quite as effective now." Dave has an expertise that the average fan simply doesn't have. Does that make his opinion the be all end all? No of course not, I disagree with Big Dave all the time, but it does make it a more informed opinion than most likely any other wrestling critic or fan could have. ie: Just because I don't always agree with him doesn't mean he's not worth hearing out.

That said, you're kinda acting like Dave isn't a respected journalist in addition to having this wealth of knowledge. He's fun to goof on in his old age but he's still an intelligent guy and has a better qualitative understanding of pro wrestling than most.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 17:34:50 EST M1ahJWky No.6426413 Reply
>>6426400
He's wearing 4 different hats, but yeah..I think his wealth of knowledge shines through when he does historian type stuff and his business journalism. I definitely respect him for that.

His rumour/backstage style journalism is rubbish though. I know this will annoy people, but his reviews of wrestling just aren't very good. If I compare it to something like red letter media or every frame a painting as far as movie reviews go..Meltzer's match reviews are just very shallow I guess. I get that he's a comfy listen and that many people want to hear his views, but there's not a lot of insight into the matches really.
>>
Lance Steel - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 18:05:30 EST OfsKgKDO No.6426427 Reply
>>6426387
Stuff like #SpeakingOut and the "mark used similar to the N word" comment really exposes Meltzer as a journalist. His obits and historical retrospectives are good and all, he can really sell you on someone's life/career or the gravity of an event in wrestling, but when it comes to the actual people in the wrestling business he is kind of awful. On WOR he kept trying to get everyone he interviewed to agree with him that "it wasn't just wrestling", and that wrestling wasn't even the worst example, and sure it isn't the only business but what even is the point there. It will be a huge shame when he is gone because there will be few left who can contextualize wrestling history like he can, though at the same time I wonder sometimes what wrestling history would look like if we had had someone to contextualize it who was also able to look at the bigger picture.
>>
Emi Fujino - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 18:10:36 EST EWiQh0da No.6426432 Reply
>>6426413
This is my take as well. I like Meltzer for historian stuff and business stuff. His reviews are pretty bare bones and he doesn't add much meat to the bones while talking about a match he likes or dislikes. Adds almost nothing and slaps a star rating on it after a shallow review. No meat on the bones. RLM and Every Frame A Painting are good examples of high quality critic reviews. Wrestling reallly doesnt have any top quality critics to be honest.

The ones in the business are jaded and angry. The ones out of the business are Cultaholic style mark reviews.
>>
Rob Van Dam - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 18:45:57 EST LtvAlZOW No.6426448 Reply
>Hurrdeedurr if he's such an expert on the Royal Family, why isn't he King yet?

Fucking state of Al Snow.

Maybe he doesn't want to?

Maybe he doesn't have the money?

Maybe he's quite happy doing what he's doing?
>>
Diamond Dallas Page - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 19:14:25 EST 0ia2DwE9 No.6426452 Reply
>>6425984
> never opened his own promotion?

I'm pretty sure Frank Gifford taught Dave to make money, not burn it
>>
Gavin Loudspeaker - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 19:20:27 EST Sisj5G0M No.6426454 Reply
1596324027115.jpg -(27065B / 26.43KB, 600x394) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6426448
>not wanting to risk your financial livelihood to open up a business
>>
Al Snow - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 22:37:31 EST OBoskew7 No.6426520 Reply
Serious question. Why does anyone care what AL SNOW of all people has to say?
>>
Michelle McCool - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 22:49:48 EST 8kyTimBL No.6426522 Reply
>>6426520
Because he's in the business therefore his words should be taken as facts and you are not allowed to criticize anything if you're not in like him
>>
Hillbilly Jim - Sat, 01 Aug 2020 23:00:49 EST n9eKBgQH No.6426524 Reply
>>6426520
He works the algorithms so videos with him rival Simon Gotch in being recommended on youtube
>>
John Laurinaitis - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 03:00:24 EST msMEiaKI No.6426551 Reply
Al Snow giving out advice has always felt hilarious seeing that he's the Garfunkel to a mannequin's Head.
>>
Sara - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 10:49:49 EST Arlyurcu No.6426586 Reply
1596379789471.jpg -(36047B / 35.20KB, 420x370) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
All this is based off of a bad premise.

Half of every director whose made financially and critically successful film in the last 40 years will tell you their favorite movie of all time is like "Hell spiders from the moon" or some other schlock they saw when they were 10. Critically observing an art form is a very different skill set than performing the art form.

Daniel Bryan, the best wrestler of his generation was constantly saying Davie Richards had surpassed him.

If wrestling makes one an expert on wrestling, then how come so many wrestler are bad?

That said, getting sources to tell you whom is being mean to whom in the locker room is also a very different skill set than critical analysis. And wrestling discourse would be far healthier if there were more POVs being heard.
>>
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:17:35 EST M1ahJWky No.6426606 Reply
>>6426588
What is Lance's general philosophy on wrestling? I only really know him from dumb takes like "libraries are filesharing"
>>
Vince Russo - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 12:43:11 EST EWiQh0da No.6426616 Reply
>>6426606
I dunno. He's just a chill guy who had a dope wrestling school and I like him more than Meltzer.
>>
William Perry - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:22:44 EST oOLczIsv No.6426690 Reply
>>6426606
that would be a half way defensible take if he was pro-filesharing
>>
Vince Russo - Sun, 02 Aug 2020 18:25:50 EST EWiQh0da No.6426701 Reply
>>6426697
Yeah Lance is joking. His joking is Dad tier and he is from Alberta so it's extra Dad tier.
>>
Leva Bates - Mon, 03 Aug 2020 04:17:46 EST eqffKnTP No.6426820 Reply
>>6426706
Yeah there's enough mental gymnastics to facilitate the 2004 NA qualifiers
>>
Droz - Mon, 03 Aug 2020 06:07:26 EST ovTCFeu9 No.6426831 Reply
1596449246742.png -(1004964B / 981.41KB, 720x720) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.
>>6425984
>If Dave Meltzer is such an expert in Prowrestling, how come he's never opened his own promotion?

Several reasons I imagine

>he doesn't want to
>he doesn't have enough money or realises how much of a money sink indie promotions can be
>SoCal already has a saturated market
>Doesn't want to compete with his boy Super Dragon and all the other local promoters he's friends with
>Writing the Observer every week is a busy job
>Probably something about journalistic integrity and how it compromises him when it comes to writing about talent he might employ

Why doesn't critic do X if he knows so much about y medium is such a lazy and dumb criticism.

Report Post
Reason
Note
Please be descriptive with report notes,
this helps staff resolve issues quicker.