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People in wrestling you thought were going to breakout but didn't

!BzcOsK03.w - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:25:29 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6449528
File: 1600993529855.jpg -(396248B / 386.96KB, 1200x1000) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size. People in wrestling you thought were going to breakout but didn't
>Discuss people in wrestling you thought were going to take off and elevate their careers significantly but for one reason or another it didn't pan out
Christina Von Errie is a wrestler from Reno, NV but who got adopted by the SoCal scene where people first took notice of because of her Brody Dalle-esque Punk Rocker character. She started off in 2008 and by 2010 she was already the "other girl" in PWG, being the only other woman wrestling in the promotion besides Candice LaRae. By the end of 2010, TNA had her come do a dark match for them so they could take a look at her.

In 2011, SHIMMER the All women's promotion out of Chicago made her a regular roster member and TNA took her on as "Toxxin", pairing her up with Shannon Moore and Jesse Neal of Ink Inc. While the role was small, get a foot in the door of nationally televised TNA seemed like it meant Christina was going to stay on the radar. Jesse Neal and Von Errie had a whirlwind romance that lead to them getting engaged by July 2011 but the relationship broke apart afterwards.

It was around the 2011 point where I thought "Alright, PWG and TNA in the bag, she's about to go somewhere with this now".

In 2013 she started picking up dates with CZW and sister promotion WSU, which was around the same time she began engaged to Deathmatch mainstay MASADA and indeed the two worked a few matches with each other. They were also engaged at one point but that also didn't work out.

The mid-10s were good for Christina indie-wise, where she was now picking up numerous gigs in promotions across America, however, the TNA gig from 2011 didn't produce as much mileage as I might have thought. Ink Inc didn't go far past 2011 and thus neither did "Toxxin". TNA brought her back years later as the GFW's Women's Champion put that angle ended up a lame duck and didn't lead to much extra work. In that same era she picked up some work with HOODSLAM in Oakland, which I thought might be good for her as new "home" promotion since Christina's punk thing would definitely vibe with them. Being from Reno, she occasionally worked with Reno Scum. Reno Scum ended up working for Impact for a while, but CVE was not brought back in with them.

However, by the end of the 10s she was drifted towards Canada and ECCW up in the Vancouver, British Columbia area. This would eventually lead her to meeting and marrying Scotty Mac, a mainstay of that promotion, in what appears to be a very happy marriage. As a result of that, Vancouver and ECCW act as her current base.

In 2019 WWE signed Shotzi Blackheart, a Californian chick who started working in 2015 who also runs with an alternative/punk look who had worked with promotions such as HOODSLAM and wrestled Von Errie in a few matches in 2018 before being signed. Shotzi is now doing very well for herself in NXT.

I thought between an easy-to-communicate character, a varied experience of working with both guys and girls, and getting a connection with a televised company like TNA would have put CVE on the path to be someone decently visible on the wrestling radar, but for whatever that didn't quite go for her and she remained only ever doing good but not outstanding on the indie scene.

Go figure. Who you guys got?
Blue Demon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:29:39 EST n9eKBgQH No.6449536 Reply
All that you said but apply it to Buggy Nova, although there was a lot of personal problems she's spoken about that got to her. In 2011 she was booked more often than Candice and Davina Rose, and certainly seemed more over locally.
Super Dragon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:41:22 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6449563 Reply
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Scott Lost of PWG fame, one of the original "PWG Six" who helped found the company along with Disco Machine, Top Gun Talwar, Joey Ryan, Excalibur, and Super Dragon. Could have been a bigger star but decided to hang up the boots to become a comic book artist.

Terri Runnels - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:44:11 EST X5VC373k No.6449567 Reply
Damn, that bottom-middle picture is her looking ROUGH.
Super Dragon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:45:23 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6449571 Reply
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LuFisto is another name that comes to mind, was never signed by any major promotion but was/is a staple of women's independent wrestling. But it's really not too late for her, she's still going pretty strong. AEW could use her for their division.
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 20:56:45 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6449588 Reply
Scott is another guy I always think of as one of those diamonds in the rough that never got unearthed.

By the time he got to 2010 he was ready to working the likes of TNA in either their tag or x divisions. He had the in ring skills for it, his moveset had a lot of very different stuff in it that no one else was doing at the time. His Big Fat Kill finish was dynamite. I'm not sure who started doing the cyclone kick first; Kofi Kingston or Scott.

Admitely, he was never a big character or promo guy but that's an aspect of him that could have been developed.

Not to be mean to Scott, but it always raised my eyebrow when his decision to get out of wrestling "for a more reasonable career" lead to him going the comic book artist route, which I imagine is just as difficult a road to climb.

This was and often still is the case with so many Californian talent; the state produces A LOT of good wrestlers who never reach higher on the chain than well related on the indie scene because they can't get booked on the East Coast due to flight costs, and the TV promotions almost always also being East Coast based.

Things like WSX and Lucha Underground come along once in a blue moon for Californian talent and give them big shots in the arms but that's not work you can depend on.
Consequences Creed - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:02:36 EST oWLdzxNc No.6449598 Reply
>buxx belmar

i remember seeing him on some czw shows and he had a nice look plus the whole doing random gross stuff gimmick reminded me of the boogeyman but with more than just worms. i figured he would at least still be around loads on the indies but i think he stopped wrestling or something.

>speedball mike bailey
i know he is technically just banned from america atm or whatever but im surprised he did not get taken in by tna or even lucha underground or wwe especially with how over he was during BOLA
Super Dragon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:04:52 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6449602 Reply
I think when Bailey gets his visa shit worked out and COVID subsides, he'll be back on the American indie scene again
Super Dragon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:15:16 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6449622 Reply
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Human Tornado should have been a bigger star too.
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:15:55 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6449624 Reply
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Lufisto is definitely someone who put in ALL the work in but rarely if ever got to reap the rewards. In the late 2000s I thought she was going to breakout thanks to her CZW run, which I and many others got to see on TV thanks to "The Wrestling Channel" that was on Sky (Cable) in the UK and Ireland at the time. The cute blonde girl who dared to go in CZW and go hardcore with the boys was definitely considered very impressive at the time, at a point when interest in hardcore wrestling had skyrocketed again off the back of the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD and subsequent ECW revival.

However, she was very much a victim of the timeperiod, which was still going through the "Diva" era, which meant despite the fact she was a good, hard worker, the fact she was short was held against. Early career Lufisto was slim as could be, if you lined 2007/2008 Lufisto up beside 2018 Alexa Bliss, I'm willing to bet there'd be little if any difference in height or weight. But back then, Johnny Ace was still doing the fucking hiring for WWE women and while TNA definitely had a broader view of women, the fact that Lufisto has a French-Canadian accent might have been a factor in them not showing any interest. Late career Lufisto then just said fuck it and she went got thicc as fuck because she got fed up of starving herself trying to call for TV that never seem to come.

>But it's really not too late for her, she's still going pretty strong. AEW could use her for their division.
I'm afraid it is in fact over for Lufisto and she herself has said as much. She's had a history of major health problems; she suffered a stroke in 2010. She's had major knee issues as well amongst a good few other injuries. She had a form of cancer in 2018. She retired for a while in 2018/2019 and although she came back, I can't imagine COVID-19 busting the indies up would help her with her momentum.

She said herself she thinks her health history and age scared away any of the big companies. So while she never stopped loving wrestling and always worked hard, helping out so many of the current crop of women wrestlers, she herself never got to reap the glory.
DASH Chisako - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:18:34 EST GrZGVrys No.6449629 Reply
Buxx Belmar was fucking great. Huge star power, and the gross-out gimmick was very effective.
Antonio Honda - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 21:55:14 EST SEUGJgZH No.6449670 Reply
Reckless Youth.
Killed it on the old indie circuit, never got a whiff of the big time.
Mototsugu Shimizu - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:09:06 EST qAkWtYki No.6449674 Reply
RJ City, I thought for sure impact would use him again after tagging with David Arquette but nope
Sonny Onoo - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:09:20 EST IafLbfJh No.6449675 Reply
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Though she wasn't a particularly great wrestler I was expecting Taeler to be in high demand fairly quickly. Sure, she got most of her attention for similar reasons to the likes of Scarlett Bordeaux, but she was featured pretty prominently in ROH and in their new women's division. I thought that would have eventually propelled her into the sights of the WWE. If not WWE then another chance in Impact and who knows, maybe she would have been one of the women snagged by AEW.
Pope D'Angelo Dinero - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:29:11 EST QQesQNiH No.6449680 Reply
>Buxx Belmar

On shock value alone this guy could have gone far.

Another guy I always though could have been big was Rob Terry.
I still can't believe WWE wasn't trying hard to hire him back during his TNA run.
Johnny Grunge - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:29:15 EST 6c5cQmI9 No.6449681 Reply
Yeah, i wouldn’t be surprised if Bailey ends up in AEW next year when he is able to return to the country again
[name redacted] !h55/E7mIo6 - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:31:24 EST 48pp0a3s No.6449682 Reply
Speedball's PWG debut was when LU's first season was about to end, so he probably wasn't a big enough name to get with them. He only had like literally 13 months between is PWG debut and his VISA ban as well, so he didn't really get too much time to cash in on the fame from that. I have no doubt though that he would've been picked up if it had been even a year or two later.

He's been in DDT earlier this year though, so he's still wrestling. His ban also expires either March or May next year though, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him signed with a major company by the end of next year.
[name redacted] !h55/E7mIo6 - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:33:00 EST 48pp0a3s No.6449683 Reply
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Forgot to mention, mine is Taylor Wilde. I was sure she'd be the next big knockouts babyface, after her underdog feud with Kong and then had that cool tag team with Sarita in TNA, but then she just disappeared after that.
Zardoz - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:37:40 EST rxIFjo4g No.6449684 Reply
Elijah Burke/The Pope. Great charisma, he could talk, and wrestle good enough. I expected him to be bigger than he was. Not sure what the deal was there.
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:37:55 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6449685 Reply
Taylor announced she's coming out of retirement this year. Whether she'll be working for Impact or not is unknown. She announced this is June, so presumably she had some sort of plan because obviously the middle of a pandemic is not the time to try and blitz the indies.
Super Dragon - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:41:49 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6449686 Reply
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I always thought Sean O'Haire had the tools to become a star but never did sadly.
Zardoz - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:52:37 EST rxIFjo4g No.6449689 Reply
Now that I think about it, Pope was in a good position until Hogan came around in TNA. Did he get injured too? I can't remember..
Annie Social - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:11:50 EST hcUFcp+9 No.6449695 Reply
I haven’t heard this name in forever, Kaasa fucking ruled! I have no idea how he was able to do even half the shit he did.
Fuck Gabe
Pope D'Angelo Dinero - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:15:45 EST QQesQNiH No.6449697 Reply
I think it was just a changing of booking. 2009 Pope was great, then Hogan and Bischoff came in and he slowly made his way back down the roster.
Mason Ryan - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:31:07 EST Mo7FbJj6 No.6449704 Reply
This is the most correct answer of all goddamn time, Monty Brown was THE GUY.
Makoto - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:34:02 EST yhwaeriU No.6449705 Reply
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>The amount of shilling Bryan Alvarez has been putting into former WWE superstar Darren Young and all those old /wooo/ comments who kept comparing Young to a Black John Cena

Never understood the appeal there was a reason why Punk thought he was a loser when he was forced to be his on screen manager in Season 1 of NXT. I have this weird theory that Bryan is such a shill for New Japan that even if the person wrestles at an average to below average level the second they start wrestling G1 talent suddenly Bryan unrealistically raises them to absurd standards

And why? CJ Parker becoming Juice Robinson was a freak accident and there is a reason why people call him "Juice." He's been hanging out with his buddies Elgin, Steiner and Cage where they all come together to take all their "supplements"
Tugboat - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:42:14 EST I3DkI7Ud No.6449707 Reply
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He appeared a few times in the second season of the HBO show Vice Principals.
Crossbones - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:53:08 EST rqbeZnm6 No.6449711 Reply
He was only compared to Cena because he literally looks like a black John Cena. It had nothing to do with talent.
Savio Vega - Thu, 24 Sep 2020 23:58:41 EST fHoAdL9D No.6449712 Reply
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Peter Kaasa is a firefighter now btw
Adam Bomb - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 00:00:04 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6449713 Reply
>CJ Parker becoming Juice Robinson was a freak accident

You doubt the ability of the company that took back Okada from TNA and got him over in 30 days? Turned Takaaki Watanabe into EVIL? Transformed Tetsuya Naito after sending him to North America? Transformed Yujiro Takahashi into the Tokyo Pimp? Turned Omega into the Cleaner?

NJPW does major gimmick changes regular to wrestlers, is there some particular reason you consider their alteration of CJ Parker (a name he didn't particular like and was probably owned by WWE) to Juice some crazy abnomality?

>Never understood the appeal there was a reason why Punk thought [Darren Young] was a loser when he was forced to be his on screen manager in Season 1 of NXT.

Pathos? You're hardly suggesting it was a shoot that played out as a storyline on screen.
Michelle McCool - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 00:59:04 EST Z96aJ4e0 No.6449723 Reply
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Maho Kurone had a great gimmick (IMO she did the zombie thing better than Abaddon), great look, tons of charisma and really just went all in on her character. She was still kind of green as a worker but that's something that would've likely gotten better with time and experience. She was definitely one of the people who helped get eyes on TJPW and I could've definitely seen her getting booked in American promotions like Impact or AEW.

But her social anxiety really got to her. It's a shame she had to step away from wrestling but when it gets to the point where she's having panic attacks before matches it's for the best.

LuFisto suffers from the same problem that people like Melissa, Daizee Haze, SDR, Mercedes Martinez and a lot of the other early SHIMMER women did: timing. Their prime years were during a time period where women's wrestling in the United States wasn't seen as particularly important and by the time things started really changing in the mid-2010s thanks to the work of people like Paige, Emma and Sasha in NXT (fair or not, WWE has the bigger stage so it's always going to influence perception) they were either older or winding down their careers.

Joshi had the same sort of problem. Wrestlers like Momoe Nakanishi, Toshie Uematsu, AKINO or Mariko Yoshida are among the best wrestlers of the last 25 years but their primes or indeed entire careers pretty much came during a long down period for joshi before Stardom's success and easy streaming turned things around.
Cheex - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:06:38 EST GFS5REWe No.6449724 Reply
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Cena era of was so corny I thought no one could make me laugh like the Rock use too until this glorious mother fucker. Honk-a-meter, imitating Stone Cold, teaming with Phoenix. His earlier days had some really strong comedy work that gave me hope in the future of WWE. My college roomate who didnt even like wrestling would ask me on occasion when the next episode of Santinos Casa was coming out because he would laugh anytime I watched it.

Remember how crazy the crowd went those two times they teased him winning the Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber? Really thought he could have been an underdog main eventer like Foley until they had him go the chessy jobber route.
Makoto - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:13:23 EST yhwaeriU No.6449726 Reply

It still makes me laugh how Cornette fucking hates Santino because he refused to follow thru with any of Cornette's previous advice back when he was training him back in OVW. He unironically wanted Santino to be what Cesaro was back in 2012.

This is proof that Cornette was a biproduct of the past when he looked at all that developing talent on the OVW roster and the 2 competitors he claimed would one day become top level main event talent were The Boogeyman and Santino.
Zardoz - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:25:44 EST G0uyKAOX No.6449731 Reply
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I expected Eugene to reveal he was faking it because Vince doesn't hire actual wrestlers and he knew he could get a charity contract because Vince would love the publicity etc. etc, leading to him transitioning to Mr. Wrestling Nick Dinsmore. Maybe have him win a battle royal for a US Title Shot as Eugene and then before the match he could do the reveal and win the belt.

But no he just stayed that way. At least we got the Freight Train promo out of the gimmick.
Rizokahn - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:34:58 EST hTSUcuhc No.6449733 Reply
While that sounds like a good idea, I feel like they would get in a lot of trouble doing that (especially after tricking GLAAD a few years prior).
Angel de Oro - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 01:44:48 EST fSWlFNl6 No.6449735 Reply
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>who kept comparing Young to a Black John Cena
That was more literal.
Ernesto Osiris - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 03:19:35 EST cfWYsosG No.6449745 Reply
Young has always been a solid hand. Not everybody is a 5 star worker, but when a guy who's already solid works with better people, he has better matches. Not really a mystery.
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 04:09:39 EST M1ahJWky No.6449746 Reply
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Bailey is a mainstay of DDT and is part of the Moonlight Express tag team with Mao for a long time. Not really someone who should be in this conversation about 'people that didn't make it'
Brodus Clay - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 04:51:10 EST ALUdH1YX No.6449748 Reply
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Fucking this look at how ready this fucker was.
Was it because he was only 5'7"?
Super Hentai - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 04:55:32 EST LUMg+nxK No.6449749 Reply
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Holy shit, every match he was in was a god damn highlight. He even won WON rookie of the year in 1999. Too bad he like...never won. And retired in late 99.
The Berzerker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:29:49 EST 5U6g5csN No.6449753 Reply
Monty Brown
Pope D'angelo Dinero
Nigel fucking McGuiness (though not entirely his fault)

And lastly Curtis Axel
I know he had an IC run but the guy was fantastic in the ring. Yes, he shit the bed in his big spot in NXT but he learned from it, was a fantastic hand and never got the fucking push he should have.
RJ Brewer - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:34:49 EST FU9dukAo No.6449754 Reply
For me it has to be Cheerleader Melissa / Mariposa / Kong's manager in TNA.
She was a terrific women's wrestler in a time where even TNA were concerned on whether or not a Knockout also had the look. She had a good run in LU but even that was after her prime and doesn't seem to have resulted in more opportunities.

Buxx Belmar was/is also a great promo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcM2Zm1Z3Qs I think his problem is that he's a great wrestler and a great promo, but people just see his gross out gimmick and that stops him from getting booked.

Also, does Super Dragon count? He was always a better wrestler than booker.
Justin Credible - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:55:27 EST cfOXxE22 No.6449755 Reply
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Great heel, amazing promo, got nuclear heat every time he entered the ring, solid in the ring.

Then the UK scene got killed, and I think he's just treading water in WWE now doing nothing
Netjester !AI.skYnEt - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 06:55:34 EST iLikEToleARn No.6449756 Reply
I flipped and I loved, now I feel like kazu/naito and gedo doesn't like AEW and WWE insisting on having done the work" and the dummy who brings kevin dunn missing rusev coming out with his gauntlet match, wasn't even half this thread gets locked.
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 07:11:17 EST M1ahJWky No.6449759 Reply
yeah wish we could have seen more, but part of me also thinks it cool that he retired at the top of his game and isn't still around now doing wrestlemania weekend indie shows
The People - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 07:55:46 EST rRLAccW7 No.6449762 Reply
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I wish it was possible to erase Bill DeMott from the wrestling timeline so Richie Steamboat never had to retire early. Dude was pretty good and had all the time in the world to improve, but the fat psychopath ruined it all.
Giant Bernard - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 08:06:13 EST 4zJo/ELj No.6449763 Reply
I'm both sad that he retired way too early - the term "living highlight reel" applied to him like godfuckingdamn - and happy that he's living life on his terms instead of being another broken-down husk of a former wrestler. It's bittersweet, but it's still a Good End overall.
X-Pac - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 08:07:45 EST M7liIxSq No.6449764 Reply
it's not that the allie kat deathmatch arc is a bad thing it's just that seeing everyone's specific reaction to it kind of exposes how little people actually pay attention to women in DM environments even more than it already did. if sage sin ever decides to step back into the ring and GCW or BLP or any of the other big indies book she's going to explode. and she still should've anyway cause she was fucking awesome.

would also argue that every indy fed in the world should've been jumping at the chance to book scotty davis but now that's it clear how well being around jordan devlin and will ospreay raised him maybe it's not a bad thing that they didn't
Ultimate Warrior - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:20:28 EST zNyQb9LL No.6449776 Reply
He was working an Evolve show when something in the ring, a turnbuckle or whatever, broke. The injury retired him.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:22:06 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449778 Reply
Gabe used cheap shitty rings that broke a lot. there were other close calls with talents.

Peter was on the top rope for a move, the turnbuckle fell apart, he fell to the outside, hit the floor and suffered spinal damage.

so yeah... fuck Gabe.
Consequences Creed - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:26:43 EST oWLdzxNc No.6449780 Reply
this one always gets me too because as far as i know nobody has said anything bad about him and when he was on wwecw it felt like he was in position to become the ecw champ but then the benoit stuff happened and everything just kinda stopped,

also like others have said monty brown not being bigger is awful the guy even made it to wwe only to just get tossed to wwecw and vanish after a couple matches.
Giant Bernard - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:30:22 EST 4zJo/ELj No.6449782 Reply
>the guy even made it to wwe only to just get tossed to wwecw and vanish after a couple matches
From what I remember, that was a Monty Brown decision - i.e., he left WWE because of family issues and decided not to return.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:34:49 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449784 Reply
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>only to just get tossed to wwecw and vanish after a couple matches.
tbf, it did seem like he was poised to get a push in WWECW...

He left WWE (and wrestling) because of a family emergency; I think the story was his sister passed away and he stepped in to help raise her children. He asked for time off and then his release from WWE and then decided to retire.

He made an appearance at a children's charity show organized by Kevin Thorn last year
>With Impact bringing in several former stars as of late, some fans have suggested they should reach out to Monty Brown. However, a new report suggests that won’t be fruitful. Fightful Select reports that there have been “numerous attempts” to get Brown out of retirement in the last year, but that they have all gone unanswered because Brown has no interest in returning to the ring.

>Brown is best known for his TNA run in the early to mid ’00s, which included a run at the TNA World Heavyweight title. He also worked in ECW for the first half of 2007 as Marquis/Marcus Cor Von before exiting the company to take care of his family.

>According to Fightful, while Broiwn has appeared backstage at both WWE and Impact events a couple of times over the past year, he doesn’t have any interest in returning. Fellow WWE alum Kevin Thorn, who has remained close friends with Brown since their days in the company, says Brown jumped at the opportunity to appear at a charity show he did but didn’t want to wrestle. Thorn said that several promoters have contacted him since trying to get Brown’s number, but he’s refused to give it out.
Kotenks !!rbabk2zH - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:35:41 EST FWjYRePR No.6449785 Reply
I thought Wade Barrett would be much bigger than he was. He was early on in his career when he was the leader of the Nexus. But that was his peak.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:43:09 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449787 Reply
Taylor Wilde had been teasing coming out of retirement for a few months before COVID and it seemed like TNA: No Place Like Home was supposed to be her return. I'm not sure where she lives in Canada, but that's probably halted her ability to still push ahead. The only canadians working Impact's empty arena shows are The North and that's probably because they have contracts and are deemed essential employees/exempt from travel restrictions. I don't think Petey Williams has done anything w Impact since the shutdown
Ring Ryda Red - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:44:42 EST dYhrmb6W No.6449788 Reply
People also forget Monty Brown played in the NFL for years and made it to the Super Bowl. It's not like he's strapped for cash and needs wrestling to make a living. It was probably easy for him to walk away.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 09:47:36 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449789 Reply
*supposedly* that was always the issue with TNA not strapping the rocket to him.
He only wrestled part time; was a full time personal trainer and TNA was his side gig. They wanted to commit full time to TNA (and also get more training) and he didn't want to/need to.

It wasn't until WWE made him a better offer that he gave up the personal training job and I think he's gone back to it since retiring.
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:23:17 EST TTvnUm7S No.6449793 Reply
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I always felt like Tim Donst deserved better. He had a good run in CHIKARA and whenever I would go see him wrestle in NOVA Pro before it shut down, he was always one of the most over wrestlers there especially with his Safety First and 2 Seconds gimmicks. Not to mention he overcame a potentially career ending kidney tumor.

I remember one time he had a hell of a Relaxed Rules match against Matt Tremont. I had also talked to Donst before and asked him about CHIKARA and he said he enjoyed his run there and wish he'd get booked there again.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:27:33 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449794 Reply
He even fought through a cancer scare to come back to wrestling right?

He's someone who Quack dropped the ball with; he was getting built to be the heel that would dethrone Kingston and then he... lost and then he put over Jakob in the hair match and then I don't think he came back after the shutdown.

I remember him venturing into CZW and wanting to test himself in death matches. He really seemed like he wanted to evolve as a performer. I was checking out his cagematch and it doesn't even look like he's doing much AIW anymore. Although he did appear at one of ICW's NHB shows this summer
Pope D'Angelo Dinero - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 10:31:45 EST QQesQNiH No.6449796 Reply
Before his cancer scare it really did feel like he was about to break out huge and get signed by WWE (which was still considered somewhat prestigious at the time)

It's a shame how it all turned out.
Stevie Richards - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 11:50:25 EST nE5dxMB4 No.6449807 Reply

Yeah he made a joke about saying how Young might be a brother from another mother
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 12:47:16 EST HWYsl/vq No.6449821 Reply
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Seems like there's a lot of wrestlers from CHIKARA that should have broken out but didn't whether or not it was due to Quack's booking. Mark Angelosetti is another guy that was a solid worker and pretty charismatic though he hasn't wrestled since he lost that ladder match to Dasher Hatfield last year.
Consequences Creed - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:28:29 EST oWLdzxNc No.6449831 Reply
based alpha male going home to be a family man when he was needed most.
Raven - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:05:20 EST d2hTzpkj No.6449834 Reply
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Seemed to be picking up a lot of steam throughout 2009-2010. Winning the ROH title felt like it should've been his big breakout, but ironically it was probably the moment that immediately killed all of his momentum dead. The flaws in his work (particularly selling and being excessive) seemed to be getting far worse instead of better, and in general he came off as overly serious and a massive dick in and out the ring at the time. It also didn't help him once Kevin Steen came back looking like a fat ball of charisma and basically buried the everloving fuck out of him in promos.

Honestly seems like one of the few guys who would've benefited a lot from going through the WWE system, but I'm pretty sure he sabotaged his own NXT tryout as well. I never caught any of his IMPACT run tbh but I'd imagine he was the Jannetty to Eddie by that point (Eddie Edwards is fucking great nowadays by the way)

Seemingly he's a paramedic now
Giant Baba - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:11:59 EST vV2HH6eR No.6449835 Reply
Nothing was stopping other promotions from booking these guys; even if Quack had a hissy-fit about it they could just tell him to shove it, but they'd rather book whatever popular twitter wrestler there is or some bearded dude in black tights and boots because anyone with a gimmick scares them
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:20:17 EST HWYsl/vq No.6449836 Reply
I liked Davey in ROH especially when he was part of The American Wolves and World Champion and had some really good matches like his matches against Roderick Strong at Bitter Friends, Stiffer Enemies 2, Tyler Black at Death Before Dishonor VIII, and Eddie Edwards at Best in the World 2011 stand out though Kevin Steen embarrassing him and calling him a Jujitsu Jackoff during their feud was pretty bad. And the whole Team Bandits incident at a Magnum Pro show didn't do him any favors and made Kyle O'Reilly realize how much of an asshole Davey and Tony Kozina were, it's why his team with Bobby Fish was called reDRagon.

His run in Impact was good especially that series against the Hardys and Dudleys and feud with Eddie but I think Eddie has surpassed Davey by now. He did actually come back at Prestige Wrestling Roseland last year teasing a match between himself and Tom Lawlor though it hasn't happened - https://twitter.com/talkingimpact/status/1181042147782483973
Pokka !!4vMEXnV5 - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:32:19 EST M1ahJWky No.6449838 Reply
Come on, Davey Richards hardly qualifies here unless we want to say that anyone who didn't have a top flight singles run in WWE counts. He had a top run as a singles star in ROH and then as one of the best tag teams in the world as the Wolves in TNA who were the undisputed top team in the company and were put over huge. Then he finished up with a very decent feud against Eddie.
Terri Runnels - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:39:20 EST X5VC373k No.6449839 Reply
>it's why his team with Bobby Fish was called reDRagon

I don't get the reference.
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:40:07 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449840 Reply
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> even if Quack had a hissy-fit about it they could just tell him to shove it, but they'd rather book whatever popular twitter wrestler there is or some bearded dude in black tights and boots because anyone with a gimmick scares them
tbf, Quack is apparently a dick about claiming ownership of Chikara gimmicks so he wouldn't let them use it without his permission.

For whatever reason, not every Chikara person wanted to break out of the bubble and it seemed like those who were able to break out, did so because they had outside training and connections i.e. Gulak, Ruby Riott, Brodie Lee, Chuck Taylor, Kimber Lee

And the Chikara-bred talents (like Kingston and OC) that did excel were the ones that benefitted from Chris Hero and Skyade's training.

But the ones trained by Quack and only Quack... were kind of trained incorrectly and can't seem to work without him.

There's a whole group of Chikara guys that have tried to break out: Donst, Jigsaw, Dasher Hatfield's trying now.
I just looked up Mr Touchdown and he's just straight up vanished - is he retired?
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:46:00 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449842 Reply
did "red dragon" have any significance or was it just cool sounding?
Blue Demon - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 14:59:32 EST n9eKBgQH No.6449850 Reply
Good Brothering goes deep, jack. The carny world of wrestling makes no sense. Quack had so much control, some dudes had been working for free for years. He could easily had enough sway on students to make them stick with his sloppy shop because one day they'd get successful
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:04:49 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449857 Reply
> one day they'd get successful
i wonder how long they got strung along while Quack was guesting at the PC and there were rumors of Chikara content being one of the indie libraries that would go on the Network
Blue Demon - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:06:54 EST n9eKBgQH No.6449860 Reply
Honestly, Davey's weirdo little ass went farther than I would have expected. Being the top guy for several promotions, even a tryout with WEE back before being an indie guy got you a one way ticketdome to eternally being on NXT.
Giant Baba - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:13:30 EST vV2HH6eR No.6449865 Reply
You guys are really overestimating the pull Quack had not only back then, but post-shutdown when CHIKARA became more isolated than ever

also kinda weird to try to cast down Quack as a trainer when the two guys you mentioned, Kingston and OC, were trained before Skayde or when he was on for barely a year
The Undertaker - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:20:01 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6449869 Reply
its not just Skyade. Chris Hero had a big hand in Kingston and OC, and they got to also work CZW in those early days before Quack had a falling out with DEEJ.

Quack works a very very specific style that he likes because he's a control freak and without people like Hero or Skyade or Claudio or Gulak, his students only learn his micro managed style
Giant Baba - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:33:00 EST vV2HH6eR No.6449870 Reply
I fail to see how being taught a lucha base is a micro managed style. If Quack was really playing 4D Chess and sabotaging his students in their training so they'd be dependent on him, he would've amped up his enthusiasm and only taught them the ins and outs of British catch that only like 5 people still work in the world.

Not to mention that the latest trainees/trainers at the Wrestle Factory were either taught primarily by Quack and Quack's trainees like Travis Huckabee, or were Quack's trainees from the first year of CHIKARA like Hallowicked. I've seen Quack work multiple styles over the years, so I don't know where the claim of him working a "very very specific style" comes from.
Scott Lost - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 15:40:14 EST bWZ+YR1t No.6449872 Reply
Maybe it's me being a Beyond fanboy and having seen Chikara wrestlers in that promotion more than I actually watched Chikara, but to me it's 100% Quack's weird insular approach to developing talent that's to blame for them not branching out. Beyond was always strange in that regard in that they were one of the few promotions that could sort of exist adjacent to the Chikara universe.

I also feel like with some of the bigger names on the indies being more outlandish and character driven, that it's going to help the likes of Callux, Dasher Hatfield, Still Life and others.
RJ Brewer - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 16:12:39 EST FU9dukAo No.6449893 Reply
It's not that they're taught a lucha base, it's the fact that they're all made to wrestle the James Harrison style of wrestling. Quack makes all of his guys and gals try to be some sort of ultra versatile masters of all crafts with British catch wrestling, llave submission master, Japanese strong style high flyers with strikes. It's what gave us guys from Dj Skittlez to Hype Rockwell. It's what made Shane Storm get constant bad reactions because he was doing sloppy lucha moves right up until he became STIGMA and had a resurgence in popularity. It's what made Vin Gerard do lucha moves he was deeply uncomfortable with doing as Equinox, and then having to work through concussions because Quack didn't want to change his precious storylines.

Sure, it's good to teach wrestlers a variety of styles in training, but to make them wrestle in styles that are definitely not suited for them is just bad.
Al Wilson - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 16:22:58 EST TthMVMNX No.6449905 Reply
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The Briscoe Brothers 100%. They've been doing the same thing in ROH for so long that they've become the tag-team embodiment of "big fishes in a small pond". Nothing about them is exciting anymore because they've literally done all that there is to do in one single promotion. They missed their boat with WWE and Jay's done too much stupid shit in the past for AEW to take a chance on them. At this point they're just dwindling away as the Old Guards

Bailey has done a fantastic job with maintaining relevancy but if it wasn't for the VISA ban he would have definitely been in one of the bigger promotion by now. The Cruiser-Weight Classic was only a few months after his ban, I feel like he would have been a shoe in for a spot and maybe even a contract afterwards.
Ezekiel Jackson - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 16:25:36 EST T03Y6MdD No.6449909 Reply

Uhh... it's not surprising how they haven't been picked up by a major company, especially Jay.
Daffney - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:09:52 EST ZqRDrDzQ No.6449931 Reply
Yeah I'm going to echo what many others have said and go with "Most of Chikara". They created some great talent and 99% of them never went anywhere. Partially timing, partially some people not wanting to commit and travel but there are like 2-3 generations of talent who either vanished or probably won't ever get the due they deserve.
Jersey Jimmy - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:14:11 EST 4Rzp5YAG No.6449933 Reply
correct answer. if he never got dragged down by being associated with Piper and the Mr. America angle, he absolutely would've been a main eventer. more importantly, he might still be alive.
Riho - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:22:11 EST DucfTAdh No.6449936 Reply
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Its unfortunate his never ending feud with Devon was about all he amounted to...
Giant Bernard - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 17:36:04 EST 4zJo/ELj No.6449944 Reply
Pope was definitely pimpin'. TNA should've made him a world champ when they had the chance.
Kharma - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 21:50:13 EST X5VC373k No.6450048 Reply
Red Dragon is also a clothing/skateboarding brand from Canada (British Columbia, I think?) where Kyle O'Reilley is from. I thought that was likely part of it, since I've heard this brand referenced in Canadian Hip Hop before, and seen their stuff around. https://reddragon.ca/
Boddy Roode - Fri, 25 Sep 2020 23:32:35 EST CNQAwKpQ No.6450058 Reply
Him and JD are with main NXT now but due to COVID can't travel there (same as the other talent not based in US). I really fucking hope that when (/if) everything opens back up that GYV are able to go back and get used to the best of their abilities. They fucking deserve it
Hercules - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:13:23 EST e49QhppL No.6450062 Reply
I know DeMott did a lot of deplorable stuff as a trainer, but what was his involvement in shortening Steamboat's career? Did Bill make Richie do something unsafe?
The People - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:19:25 EST rRLAccW7 No.6450063 Reply
His shitty training regime was pretty much responsible for Richie's back getting completely jacked up.
Fabulous Moolah - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:47:49 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6450069 Reply
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Larry Sweeney, God rest his soul, should be making a million fucking dollars in this industry right now but unfortunately, that will never happen and it fucking sucks . Just an absolute tragedy that we lost him so young.
Tyler Black - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:53:06 EST 4zJo/ELj No.6450071 Reply
WWE never would've hired him, but he would've been the fucking king of everything in any company outside of CHIKARA.
Matt Hardy - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 00:54:00 EST Arlyurcu No.6450072 Reply
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Monty Brown, legit sports background, actually worked like a heavy weight, good promo. Seemed like TNA dropped the ball on him every chance they got, then again fizzled out in WWE. I guess they ultimately dropped the ball on AJ to, but he should of been their heavy weight AJ. Someone WWE stars we're expected to treat like a star. I vaguely remember that he had heat with TNA cause he wasn't taking a lot of indie dates and wasn't developing himself or something but that might of been fake news.

Every mid-late 2000s Big Japan Death Match wrestler that wasn't Ito. Japan is gonna Japan, so the ace is always gonna ace. Yuko Miyamoto had such a great run, and then they just did nothing with him after. I don't know who you would of considered Ito's #2 at the time, Sasaki or Kobayashi maybe? Regardless I've never seen another promotion in Japan where the ace was so significantly less interesting and talented as his #2 guy.
Hercules - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 01:13:15 EST e49QhppL No.6450076 Reply
According to someone who worked for the production crew, Tornado decided to quietly retire because of nagging injuries and some developments in his personal life. Sucks for everyone, but sometimes you have to make tough choices.

Yeah, it's a painful fact, but most successful wrestlers who live on the West Coast only do so because they moved there after getting successful. Most SoCal natives who have gone on to make it struck out East at one point or another. Such is the way of the biz.
KAGETORA - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 06:22:49 EST 7Vp27evN No.6450102 Reply

Von Eerie never made it because she was never really good in the ring. She was adequate, but never really "good." Shotzi's been far better than CVE was in her in-ring career.
Rizokahn - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:10:15 EST hTSUcuhc No.6450174 Reply
They were suppose to be sign by WWE at multiple points of their career, but didn't because of various: One was because Johnny Ace said they weren't cosmetically pleasing and another time was because of Jay saying some homophobic remarks.

Considering they run a chicken farm outside of wrestling, ROH was probably the better bet for them considering they run a few shows every month (before pandemic). I imagine AEW would've been on their list, but didn't make worthwhile offer.
Scotty 2 Hotty - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 14:15:39 EST npmoWSca No.6450175 Reply
>s because of Jay saying some homophobic remarks.
Considering who would get signed later, seems like Jay got dinged for being too openly homophobic. If he would have kept it to message boards and the lockerroom he'd have been fine
Kaz Hayashi - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 15:55:56 EST nVBpeOcB No.6450191 Reply
>Every mid-late 2000s Big Japan Death Match wrestler that wasn't Ito. Japan is gonna Japan, so the ace is always gonna ace. Yuko Miyamoto had such a great run, and then they just did nothing with him after. I don't know who you would of considered Ito's #2 at the time, Sasaki or Kobayashi maybe? Regardless I've never seen another promotion in Japan where the ace was so significantly less interesting and talented as his #2 guy.

I love 2000s Big Japan but this is so true. Ito's title reigns felt like they went on forever.
Super Calo - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 18:55:56 EST zl40nmQP No.6450208 Reply
fred yehi. had that kind of shitty match in pwg with david starr and kind of stopped showing up in big promotions. at the time david starr could do no wrong and i think people just automatically assumed yehi must have fucked up in some way and his hype plummeted overnight. with what we know now about starr i hope yehi starts getting some second chances. he would be money in that ROH Pure tournament thing

JT Dunn. the son in Chris Hero's "Don't talk to me or my son ever again" tag team once he left NXT the first time. great moveset and good in the ring. i know he had problems with addiction and injuries, but if you look through the matches he was having from 2016-2018 it's like every young AEW/NXT/Impact guy and him and he's the only one that hasn't been signed yet

Fujita Jr Hayato. tiny angry jr heavyweight that wrestled like Shibata but with actual shoot credentials (he was trained in part by KID Yamamoto, a legend of japanese mma). Michinoku Pro guy who did BOSJ one year. Him not breaking out is 100% just terrible luck. First his mentor KID died of cancer then he himself got diagnosed with cancer and now he's on hiatus (he came back to do a one-off match). I have no doubt if he was healthy he would have probably gone to the US and done amazingly in the current indie scene with shows like Bloodsport.

iirc mr. touchdown had a really bad leg injury in 2019, quietly dropped off the planet (probably to rehab it) and then the promotion may have shut down before he could come back
Val Venis - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 18:59:08 EST Tn2B6XhC No.6450209 Reply
Weren't his issues
1) "Trained" at the WCW Powerplant, so had no fundamentals and was unsafe
2) Couldn't cut a promo without laughing and breaking character
Val Venis - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:06:35 EST Tn2B6XhC No.6450211 Reply
Can't blame Cornette that OVW wrestlers didn't become stars when some of them were given gimmicks like: bald gimp, supplement seller, male cheerleader.
And the last crop of true WWE main eventers passed through OVW: John Cena, Batista, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton. What credit you want to give for each wrestler varies, but Cena especially thinks highly of Cornette.
Sami Callihan - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:08:03 EST qN2r1pIH No.6450212 Reply
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Hiroyo Matusomoto should probably be a bigger deal on the joshi/global women's wrestling scene than she is. She won the Oz Academy belt once but, well, it's Oz Academy. Other than that she's basically relegated to being a tag champ with whoever. I imagine her freelance status is a big reason why in the joshi world but I'm honestly surprised WWE didn't sign her after the Mae Young Classic. Especially considering they'd been scouting her a few years earlier.
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:08:27 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6450213 Reply
>"Trained" at the WCW Powerplant, so had no fundamentals and was unsafe

Maybe I'm completely wrong but I feel like "WCW Powerplant guys suck" is more of a WWF lockerroom narrative than actual fact. Both the WCW and WWF were obviously partisan as fuck about each other and I can see the WWF crew talk themselves into believing that WCW rookies couldn't go rather than it being fact so that they could convince management to boot WCW rookies over them. I mean if the Powerplant could get Goldberg up to speed, I don't see why it couldn't get other guys rolling.

I don't recall WCW fans complaining much about the Natural Born Thrillers being introduced or their matches, despite the fact the Powerplant said it would have liked to have more time training them up.

Despite only having a few matches for WWE as part of the Mae Young tourny, the Lady Destroyer got over pretty well in limited time. Her experience came across, seemed like a solid hand and good addition to most women's rosters. Shame to hear she's not getting a lot of opportunities.

This post was edited by Celt on 26-09-2020 19:11:45
Ken Patera - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 19:30:32 EST rqbeZnm6 No.6450219 Reply
I don't remember ever hearing anything about O'Haire being unsafe either. Given that him, Jindrak, Palumbo and Stasiak spent a ton of time working with Nash and DDP, if they were unsafe, they would've been shit on for it at some point.
Meng - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:21:26 EST SdPbl+Wq No.6450258 Reply
The only reason they are the last crop of main eventers is because they are the last crop of guys WWE actually tried pushing after they came up.
Goldust - Sat, 26 Sep 2020 23:55:24 EST ML4PCjY3 No.6450267 Reply
Most of the Power Plant guys had a good look and were at least solid in the ring. They just didn't teach them how to cut promos, and at the time they hit WCW nobody on top was interested in helping anyone out (at least not the old guys at the top).

Putting O'Haire with Piper had to do with his inability to cut Devil's Advocate promos live without corpsing and for whatever fucking reason he got put with Piper and of course if you're bringing him back the logical thing to do is put him with Hogan (seriously wtf?). Honestly what really cheeses me off about the Piper pairing is Raven was either doing jack shit or just about to leave and would have been GODDAMNED PERFECT as the mouthpiece for that gimmick, but Vince hates him so fuck the good fit.
Tursas - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 00:11:02 EST F4Q8qUGZ No.6450272 Reply
Owen hart after the screwjob
Should have been a world champion and beat hbk. Then lose it back to shawn before mania so owen can face stone cold.

Dropped the ball with owen in wwf and bret in wcw after all that heat from the screwjob.
Meng - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 07:55:41 EST SdPbl+Wq No.6450298 Reply
Should've given him a run with the belt after that Lumberjack match instead of doing the Dusty finish
Mr. Fuji - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 13:56:31 EST e49QhppL No.6450370 Reply
Yeah, if he ever had made it to WWE, I don't see Richards going past a certain ceiling, even in a post-Daniel Bryan ecosystem. He'd probably be a mainstay in the tag division and have a couple solid US/IC title runs.
Hallowicked - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 14:20:15 EST 0g8+IxW/ No.6450381 Reply

The best character in wrestling at the time, and no other company seemed to be willing just let him play it. Sure, downplay the more ECW elements, but let him just be Raven the way you did with the Dudleys. Hell, even with how shitty he was booked in WCW, he managed to get massive amounts of legitimate heat. I just don't get how you can see a guy with a good look, a strong gimmick, and a clear knowledge of how to work a crowd, and then decide to make him a comedy undercarder.

I guess you could say that about most of the ECW roster. Mike Awesome, Tajiri, Justin Credible, Chris Candido and Jerry Lynn deserve more than they got.
Tursas - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:43:45 EST F4Q8qUGZ No.6450397 Reply
Nah you are thinking Brennan who made a social media thread that is gone now for some reason and now we have a new social media thread that the AC trip made.
AC !QqL8nX9URE - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:47:07 EST t9ej540l No.6450398 Reply
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Everyone got worked. I expected you guys to notice in the old social media thread.
Don't let this derail the thread tho.
Sangriento - Sun, 27 Sep 2020 15:50:31 EST xdDs7Dcz No.6450400 Reply
I did find all this strange as his old tripcode was GreatBlackOtaku IIRC, not "Brennan". Fucking newfags.
Hiroshi Tanahashi - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:00:29 EST P2U8tKNa No.6450573 Reply
I never really thought Santino was funny, but I did like the Rumble 2011 and Chamber 2012 moments because it's great when people you don't expect to win have a chance of winning.
Hiroshi Tanahashi - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 03:02:19 EST P2U8tKNa No.6450574 Reply
Well I waited long enough to see if Axel was a good wrestler since that's all I heard but I've never seen him do anything spectacular.
Wendi Richter - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 04:40:57 EST NEFUeg1O No.6450576 Reply
So honestly. That probably means that theres a whole sequestration of interesting wrestlers that could of been something if they didn't just work strictly with Quack. Besides all the Speaking Out shit about him. The fact he was so Aspbergery with his vision means that there's a bunch of people who would of hoped to be bigger but can't work any other style.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 06:15:20 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450581 Reply
what style did he teach that was so radically different? the crossovers chikara had back in the day meshed just fine and the new chikara trainees are the same as any other indie wrestler right now
Jungle Grrrl - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 07:39:33 EST n9eKBgQH No.6450589 Reply
>what style did he teach that was so radically different?
How to work for free for decades because this comic book wrestling thing is definitely going to make it
Ken Patera - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:08:30 EST TGfaR6x5 No.6450592 Reply
Donst will forever be my boy. I don't know what he's like in person, but he seems genuinely funny when he needs to be, and I think he's a solid worker to boot. And the tumor.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:46:53 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450595 Reply
working for free/barely any money isn't exclusive to quack, 2000s american indies, or wrestling in general especially when you hear so many people brag about driving across 3 states to get a $100 booking and end up at a loss because "they're paying their dues"

if anyone genuinely thought they were gonna get paid big bucks (or paid at all,) under quack they were a bigger mark than him because it doesn't take a genius to notice that CHIKARA was never profitable and was never gonna be

but this doesn't actually answer my original question
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:08:07 EST HWYsl/vq No.6450598 Reply
Her whole story is interesting with how she got into wrestling like it could be made into a movie or something. I mean she wasn't that good of a wrestler but the character she developed at least made her stand out in Stardom especially as a gaijin. I think if she didn't get all those concussions (dunno if it was because of Stardom's wrestling style or just bad luck), maybe she could have made it stateside in ROH or even Impact though her height (I can't think of any female wrestlers shorter than 4'10) would have been a big limitation for her being able to go to WWE or AEW unless she was a really good wrestler. At least now she's enjoying her retirement with her partner in Oslo though I can't imagine what she went through after Hana died.

I'm not really sure what happened with Fred Yehi after that PWG match but I always thought he was underrated with his technical wrestling style and Big Trouble character, maybe he had an off night or something. I hope he shines in the Pure Tournament since he would be a great signing for ROH. As for JT Dunn, I know he's been open about his alcoholism and drug addiction issues though he's fallen off the radar and been mainly wrestling for NEW, Chaotic Wrestling, and Limitless Wrestling now. He's kind of in the same boat as Tim Donst where they've had big opportunities on the indies but their real life health issues derailed the momentum they were trying to build. Hopefully he can come back from this.

Yeah he's pretty chill in person from when I met him and a funny dude too - https://twitter.com/tdonst/status/1303467689856380929

He has an amateur wrestling background, which was part of his initial character in CHIKARA, and hope he gets a big opportunity some day whether it's a match in GCW or on AEW Dark to get him to the next level.
Netjester !AI.skYnEt - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:08:16 EST iLikEToleARn No.6450599 Reply
No one cares about PWI in 2020 only associate wrestling with good opponents and they decided to film a month on thursday october 1st.
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:09:32 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450601 Reply
>fred yehi. had that kind of shitty match in pwg with david starr
the fact that the crowd blamed Yehi and not Starr proves that Starr was a cancer on this business
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:13:53 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450604 Reply
>Sure, it's good to teach wrestlers a variety of styles in training, but to make them wrestle in styles that are definitely not suited for them is just bad.

You should probably also learn from a variety of styles from a variety of trainers
Quack would cite Blue Panther and Johnny Saint as idols and influences but instead of paying them to teach seminars at the WF, *he* paid to wrestle them and then charged his students for the privilege of being trained by him.

Quack tried to be a "master of all styles" when he could never duplicate the authentic experience of World of Sport or lucha stars.

He also never left Pennsylvania.

Meanwhile Daniel Bryan and Chris Hero literally traveled the world working directly with everyone from Suzuki to Fit Finlay to Regal to Nagata.
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:18:04 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450605 Reply
>Maybe I'm completely wrong but I feel like "WCW Powerplant guys suck" is more of a WWF lockerroom narrative than actual fact
nah its true.

The Power Plant was helmed by Sgt Buddy Lee Parker and maybe Hugh Morrus helping out. It was just a weird hazing facility that taught guys how to do grueling cardio while jacked but not how to safely put together a match.

All their products were Goldberg-like: they knew how to hit cool looking shit but they didn't know how to protect their opponent taking the move.

The best student of the Power Plant was probably DDP but at the same time he's criticized for not being able to "call it in the ring"
Jungle Grrrl - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:45:17 EST n9eKBgQH No.6450618 Reply
It's not that Quack pulled some hotdog and handshake on outsiders like regular carny promoters did, he was doing it to his students, both ring performers and crew. This was Paul Heyman during ECW tier, from a guy who claims to have been in the ECW lockerroom and said "I don't want to be like this".

You seem to think it was the in ring style that Quack taught was holding his students booking back. Quack ran a sloppy shop, period. The wrestlefactory was like a for profit sleazy college that had no accreditation. You weren't there to learn to work, you were there as bodies for Quack's vision of what wrestling should be. Anyone who learned anything did so from trainers who actually gave a shit, which were few and far between since the batch from the last decade were sex pest.

In a business of con men and carnies, Quack's chikara ended up pretty high, all from a guy who was always beating his own drum that he was building a better wrestling landscape. Still is, on his youtube channel where "how to break into wrestling" videos from a 20 year vet get less views than some marks fan titantron of his friends
Togi Makabe - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 09:59:50 EST iSjzIpgS No.6450620 Reply
Just wanted to say that this thread is probably the best one the board has had in a while.
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:01:49 EST HWYsl/vq No.6450637 Reply
Yehi's offense was good in the match but Starr didn't do a good job of selling for him. It was a match that could have been a good technical wrestling showcase but for whatever they didn't have good chemistry.
AKIRA - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:08:06 EST X3HfNDOH No.6450638 Reply
Yehi is one of the best dudes going and has been for a long fucking time.

The fact ROH didn’t job him out to Silas Young in the tournament may have restored my faith in that promotion.

He’s like Hideki in that he’ll just wrestle you and force you to have a good match. Dude even made WARHORSE look alright.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:33:41 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450641 Reply
almost every wrestling promoter worldwide doesn't just carny fans, they also try to carny their ring crew and the wrestlers - like i said, that's not something that's exclusive to quack ever besides none of them having his turbo enthusiasm

it's just silly to imply quack is training them to work a style that somehow sabotaged them when you're still learning a basic wrestling style that, excluding a few trainees, seemed to work just fine in and out of chikara with those who were trained pre-Hero and pre-Skayde, and people who were trained post-Hero and post-Skayde

there's no doubting that quack is probably one of the top 5 biggest carnies in north american pro wrestling, but this idea that he was actively crippling people's training by teaching them some super niche style is some 4D chess shit that he wouldn't even be able to pull off instead of just him being a carny that was able to sweet talk and take advantage of a bunch of bright-eyed kids who idolized him too much to know that they were being carnied into working for nothing to peanuts
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:40:48 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450642 Reply
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>like i said, that's not something that's exclusive to quack
something that IS exclusive to Quack was his posturing that he/Chikara were going to be "progressive"/"inclusive" reform for the world of wrestling and away with the old carny BS.

He attracted a very specific subset of nerdy wrestling fans who genuinely believed in the "wrestling is for everyone"/"wrestling is art" philosophy and allowed themselves to be taken advantage of.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:54:49 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450644 Reply
WWE to an extent, AEW, PROGRESS, Riptide, and Pro Wrestling EVE among others do the same thing bragging about being different or inclusive and trying to enact change in pro wrestling, that's not really something that's exclusive to quack either

i will agree that he did attract a group of people who were both fans and trainees that made the mistake of thinking a wrestling promoter wasn't a carny though and if he didn't lean on it as hard he and chikara would've come out a lot better from the allegations
Big Boss Man - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 12:22:10 EST UGv1hFSi No.6450648 Reply
nb but chikara was preaching inclusivity and being family friendly years before any of those promotions did, which is another issue that was exposed earlier this year that Quack wasn't as moral as his posturing was in that aspect.

I'll agree I don't think Quack trained his students as a joke like they were Wimp Lo, but all evidence shows he wasn't as prestigious a trainer/booker/mentor as he was working people
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 12:29:12 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450651 Reply
yeah i wouldn't say he was training his students as a joke, but I do think his control freak tendencies led to poor training in that, instead of his students being encouraged to branch out and go on excursion and learn varying styles from the people who specialized in those styles (lucha, WOS, lucharesu), it all went through his filter.

Chikara students were not getting authentic WOS training from vets of WOS; they were getting Quack's interpretation of it. And Quack really didn't venture out into the world of wrestling like D Bry or Claudio or Hero, so he really didn't have the authority to speak on "mastering" these styles like he proclaimed.

There's a difference between studying a match you like and imitating it, and actually getting hands-on tutelage from the people involved in that match. Quack never did an excursion in the summer camps in Britain learning WOS... but Hero, Claudio, Bryan and Cabana did.
Vito - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 12:46:00 EST mQ0p7RVo No.6450655 Reply
True WOS wrestling is fat men using fat-based offence (such as your opponent running face first into your gigantic stomach and being knocked out cold) & I'll accept no other answers.
Vito - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 12:58:31 EST mQ0p7RVo No.6450666 Reply

I left out tickling (Les Kellet and Catweazle) and hypnosis (Kendo Nagasaki - sounds Japanese but it's actually a man from Wellington). Genuinely ask any middle aged and above person in the UK who they remember of WOS or 'the wrestling'.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:30:23 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450672 Reply
big difference is that quack was running a school that tried to put the students into his fed, so if he encouraged them to go on excursions he'd end up paying for it and according to people he's constantly busy so going out for a long-term excursion of his own would be out of the question

quack still interacted with the same people who were on the ass-end of WoS's run that taught those camps and interacted with hero, claudio, bryan, and cabana throughout the years having completely fine to amazing matches with them, so i doubt them having the edge of going to the UK for a year or two is really what set them apart from quack when he effectively has the same style of them except tighter and flashier

quack had the advantage of being a money mark (albeit without the money,) so he could just book people or push for indies to book people for him to work with instead of traveling on his own
Sin Cara - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:34:19 EST Nwp9fWmA No.6450674 Reply
i feel like you're giving Quack way too much benefit of the doubt.

Point blank: i think you're trying to mitigate criticisms against him and if that were true, his WF would have produced a lot more talent that would advance and get signed to a major promotion.

But that didn't happen. The proof is in the pudding. If his methods were not flawed, there would be more success attached to them. But there aren't.
And I'm struggling to think of any talent who he deserves the most credit for molding.
Typhoon - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:42:35 EST CmVM3fC3 No.6450680 Reply
I must've imagined those matches Quack had with Saint & Kidd. I must've imagined Kidd requesting Quack be his retirement match. Did he know he was having his retirement match with a FRAUD?
Edge - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:49:41 EST 35I8LAXy No.6450682 Reply
>big difference is that quack was running a school that tried to put the students into his fed
There's numerous stories of Quack keeping students down in the basics class for years while demanding their tuition money by dangling the promise of moving up if they re-signed. Most legit wrestling schools (kek) would either train you and then set you up with contacts or tell you you learned enough and you're on your own, not keep stringing you along.
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 13:56:13 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450687 Reply
the issue is less on quack's training and more on him isolating these people to CHIKARA to use as talent

all you have is speculation on whether or not hero and skayde specifically trained this one person, or reckless youth specifically trained this person and that's why they're successful, etc.

look at eddie kingston while he was in chikara and post-chikara, yet it took him over a decade to get signed to a major promotion, hallowicked never got his shot and i don't think he had some obligation to stay with CHIKARA, tim donst barely gets booked anywhere, amasis took off his mask and he's stuck in the midwest, and the new batch of CHIKARA grads are good yet before the shutdown barely got booked anywhere even when Green Ant 2 said that quack wasn't stopping them from going to other promotions

it's a complete crapshoot on who gets signed to a major promotion or not, and there's multiple wrestling schools that have produced talent that don't get signed to major promotions all the time and don't get a fair shake on the indies; this is not something that's exclusive to the wrestle factory or quack as i've said before
Jaki Numazawa - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:10:07 EST NpkMXUyl No.6450691 Reply
also claudio, ophidian, OC, gulak, dasher, and hallowicked were all trainers after hero and skayde were gone and they trained under them and quack, so why would the quality of trainees somehow suddenly drop despite them being the main trainers especially when there's been stories that quack is barely around for a lot of the beginner and advanced classes?
Prince - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:02:34 EST F4Q8qUGZ No.6450700 Reply
I actually started watching Quacks youtube after all this callout shit lol. It has some useful information. He seems like a nice enough guy. Shame he burned a few people in the past but it's not like he is some kind of monster. He's obviously enthusiastic though. I think maybe some people have this idea like he is some master manipulator and doing all he can to use and abuse his trainees. He just has a specific vision for wrestling and it doesn't make much money.

Most wrestling trainers have their own vision for training. The best thing an aspiring wrestler could do is never stop learning and travel around the world learning a variety of styles and viewpoints.

Guys like Al Snow can be a whole different kind of shitty trainer than Quack. WWEs performance Center certainly has its problems. There are pros and cons to all these schools. Quack has tons of lessons on what you need to do to get to WWE or NJPW or if you just want to work freelance on the indies. I'm also confused about this claim that he told wrestlers to NOT work regular jobs. I've literally seen him say the exact opposite of that multiple times. Stressing that a regular job might be a necessity.
Yumiko Inoue - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:02:59 EST JyJS6uUQ No.6450701 Reply
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"Primetime" Elix Skipper fucking ruled, should have been a bigger star for sure.
Big Boss Man - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:03:33 EST UGv1hFSi No.6450702 Reply
Because after them, Icarus, Rory and Juan were trainers and there's a noticeable decline, probably because Chikara became more of a grooming station
Big Boss Man - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:09:58 EST UGv1hFSi No.6450704 Reply
>doing all he can to use and abuse his trainees. He just has a specific vision for wrestling and it doesn't make much money.
wrestling doesn't make much money. The problem is that historically he's aggressively demanded people sacrifice their time, body, and own money for his vision while downplaying how little return Chikara is bringing, among other issues. If he wants to go into debt over his vision he has every right, but there's plenty of stories of his demands for his students and workers he brought in to give their all when they probably aren't even getting a free download of the show
Al Wilson - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:17:40 EST vV2HH6eR No.6450706 Reply
Those guys excluding Claudio, Gulak becoming a guest trainer, and OC presumably stopping when he got signed were all still part of CHIKARA as wrestlers and trainers until the recent closing. I'm pretty sure Quack took a bullet for a lot of these guys who definitely know more than they've shared.
Hulk Hogan - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 15:22:19 EST FU9dukAo No.6450707 Reply
It's crazy to think of Juan as a trainer when he can't wrestle worth shit himself.
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 19:26:06 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6450758 Reply
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Another guy worth mentioning, and another guy on the endless list of "He would have done well if he wasn't stuck in SoCal" was Kaos of XPW notoriety.

The fact Kaos was an XPW guy was a "black mark" that unfortunately hampered the entirety of his career. Kaos was the nephew of fellow XPW mainstay Supreme. While Supreme made his name as a big bald fat deathmatch guy, Kaos was almost his total opposite; a smaller but buff, quick, somewhat clean cut traditional wrestler in the mould of the mid 90s ECW TV title holders. XPW certainly positioned him as such, having him hold their TV title for 2 years in an obvious parallel of the Rob Van Dam ECW TV title reign. His other attribute was a natural heel swagger, he just had a natural "easy to hate" cocky aura to him.

After XPW folded (which is whole story to itself we will leave to the side), he had a brief run in CZW feuding with XPW Alumni Messiah, but that didn't led to much East Coast Work. He remained in SoCal, where the next big highlight of his career was being part of the Wrestling Society X roster. WSX was a promotion ran and aired on MTV2 in 2006 that unfortunately only got 1 season. I found WSX fun but it was highly criticised at the time by wrestling traditionalists for being too wacky and too obsessed with gimmicks and high spots. To be fair to WSX, one person involved in the project said all the crazy ADHD stuff was tailored to what the MTV execs had asked for.

Kaos' WSX run mainly centred around working with Aaron Aguilera, who was later "Jesús" for 5 seconds in WWE, the bodyguard of Carlito who "stabbed" John Cena in a nightclub.

After the WSX run, you would have thought that A) He could have been thrown into OVW or another WWE developmental or B) Picked up TNA or C) Maybe even fast tracked towards WWECW. He was in his mid-20s at that point, had TV experience from both XPW and WSX, had demonstrate some flair and some ability, he could have been developed.

For whatever reason, He never got the big break though. Despite being the guy, in my view, with the most potential from the original crew of homegrown XPW guys to go on and actually do something else in wrestling, Kaos was relegated to remaining in SoCal. He was used like once by PWG in the mid 00s but never brought back in. He floated around working the likes of Cali mainstay promotion AWS until NWA Hollywood came around which became his home promotion. He was a major contributor to that promotion first as a wrestler and later a colour commentator.

He gave back to the SoCal wrestling scene by also becoming a trainer, running the Santino Brothers Wrestling School. While it might not have many famous alunmni to it's name, The Santino Bros school is, to the best of my knowledge, well regarded enough amongst those in the SoCal scene.

It's not that Kaos was this amazing prospect that everyone let slip through their fingers, but what I am suggesting is that if a guy of his calibre had been from the East Coast, he would have done more stuff we'd be aware of than just XPW and WSX. I mean he wouldn't even necessarily been out of place in 2000s ROH at a push.

Good look, good swagger, seemingly solid enough in the ring to hold his own...he'd have passed my scouting report in the 2000s.
Crowbar - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 19:35:50 EST npmoWSca No.6450760 Reply
Joey Kaos is awesome and his time with the book at NWA Hollywood was some good wrestling. Santino Bros also has had a decent turn out of people making it, like Famous B, Jake Atlas, Tyler Bateman and Brody King.
Prince - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 19:39:58 EST F4Q8qUGZ No.6450761 Reply
Wow I completely forgot about this guy. WSX was so funny to watch back in the day. I found the overall production confusing as a teenager. I wonder if ringthedamnbell has any articles on him.
Luke Gallows - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 19:50:32 EST zl40nmQP No.6450764 Reply
i loved wsx as a little jimmy but i think if i watched it today i'd hate it.

i feel like there were a huge amount of "workrate guys" in CZW and XPW who were surprisingly decent but basically went nowhere because they had the stigma of being early CZW and XPW guys. ric blade was a tremendous botch machine but also a very creative high flyer for his time... surprised early TNA never gave him a one-off shot with the x division
Celt !BzcOsK03.w - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 21:28:54 EST 0CuYXf/X No.6450780 Reply
I meant it in the spirit of "She looked great at any weight" but I might have been tacky with it.
Tetsuya Natio - Mon, 28 Sep 2020 21:48:33 EST rqbeZnm6 No.6450782 Reply
>Raven was either doing jack shit or just about to leave
Raven was in TNA. He was released from WWE the same month the Devil's Advocate gimmick started.
Crash Holly - Tue, 29 Sep 2020 04:36:24 EST P6kR4nuw No.6450839 Reply
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Bio says things panned out and she reclaimed sanity but hey, then I saw her tweets are basically still just her plugging her YouTube and hashtagging about Raw and sporting events asking people which teams are their favs.

I dont get it, either stay relevant like that or just start betting booked again?
Brian Pillman - Tue, 29 Sep 2020 04:39:00 EST 4zJo/ELj No.6450840 Reply
>stay relevant
At this point, she could only do that by starting an OnlyFans aimed at big tiddy enthusiasts. She'd probably make decent bank on it, too.
Farooq - Tue, 29 Sep 2020 08:16:11 EST IafLbfJh No.6450876 Reply
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Looking through their IGs. Looks like they both stopped appearing in each others posts around August last year. Notably Cory, who seemingly just reposts the same few pictures of himself over and over had a picture of him, Taeler and Ken Jeong together, but after August every time he posted that pic, Taeler is cropped out of it.

They still both follow each other though so who knows.
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:14:11 EST HWYsl/vq No.6451449 Reply
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>she was very much a victim of the timeperiod, which was still going through the "Diva" era

I feel like this could be applied to a lot of female wrestlers in 2000-2015 (the year the Divas Revolution/Women's Evolution started) especially those that wrestled for Shimmer and other indie promotions. Portia Perez related.
Debra - Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:24:50 EST npmoWSca No.6451450 Reply
During speakingout, portia alluded to her career stalling because of constant harassment and abuse in lockerrooms. Probably again can be applied to any female wrestler.
C-Higgy !lfsExjBfzE - Thu, 01 Oct 2020 13:36:24 EST HWYsl/vq No.6451453 Reply
That sucks but I can imagine during that time a lot of women wrestlers that should have gotten bigger opportunities didn't because of that.

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